Am I just a crutch?

[MadlyDeeply]

Summerdreams a lot of what you said is true, I do have a v good h and the best children in the world so I don't want to disturb our family unit. I am not unhappy at home if I was i would leave for the children and for me. I do just miss the being in love and I know my h does too but our children are more important to us. My h does make me feel loved I just don't feel in love with him. I do love my mm though not just the feeling of being in love. I feel I want to look after him, support him, understand him, be there for him and do everything for him as well as be close to him physically. He is not a bad person really otherwise i couldn't love him. He is quite immature and does have seriously bad problems from his younger yrs, which must have affected him to behave like he does, he needs counseling to be honest but he would just laugh if I suggested that. I need to just accept my life as it and just enjoy it, like you said there are millions of marriages like mine. 

Elaine your probably right too, it is in his DNA it must be as he has been like this for so long. He is able to separate love and sex. 

The only way I could ever get over my mm is to move away with my h and children so to never see him again.  

[SummerDreams]

5 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

The only way I could ever get over my mm is to move away with my h and children so to never see him again.  

Please. You are a grown woman, a mother. I find it impossible  to imagine that you don't have the restraint and the brains to decide to stay away from him and actually do it. I mean, what you are saying shows that you have not realized how much damaging all this is to everyone involved. If you knew, you would be the one who would leave him. It's like having a serious illness and the doctor asks that you stop eating sweets and you are saying that the only way to stop eating sweets would be if you moved away to a deserted island where there would be no sweets around. If you realize the importance to stop eating sweets, then you will do it, even though the sweets are all over the place for you to find.

I still insist that you just love the way he pretends to love you and not him as a person. You love the way he makes you feel alive again. But even if it's true and you love him as a person, well, he is married and doesn't want to leave his wife. Will you be the miserable third person forever? Is this the example you want to give your kids? Is this how you thank your H for being such a loving and good father and husband? I mean, you are on a dead end. I don't know what you are expecting to happen here. Go on living in a telenovela?

[Beca L]

MadlyDeeply how are you ? Hope you are ok. You have been bombarded with messages over this weekend and it must have been overwhelming and upsetting for you. Lots of people are giving you their advice or opinions of what you should do or not do. To be fair to them and myself we are only trying to help but I realise it can be upsetting once you are faced with all the comments. There are BS, WS, OW, OM and they all think they know what you should be doing but they are not walking in your shoes at the mo. I understand how you feel. I myself made some bad choices and reckless decisions over the last 2 years after my xmm returned to his wife. I was totally consumed and desperately wanted him to see the light. Obviously it was hopeless and all it did was bring me great pain and heartache. You atm are in the thick fog of it all, you can’t see the wood for the trees and it’s hard for you to make the right choices. 
I would love to tell you that things are better for me and that I’ve been through some miraculous recovery but I’d be wrong. NC is really tough and heartbreaking. I still miss xmm and feel such a mixture of feelings. Anger, sadness, loneliness, feelings of nostalgia, it is very painful. How could he do this to me ? Why ? We had such a special and wonderful year together. He told me many of the same things your MM says to you. That I am his soul mate, that he’s never felt like this before and that he was/is deeply in love with me yet he was able to walk away from me and end it. It leaves me questioning everything, how could I have been conned, why was I so stupid? We shared so many wonderful times, holidays to Italy, Bruges, weekends away, we built a patio together in my garden. He lived in the family home with BS for 14 years and he did nothing to it, it looked exactly the same as when they moved in. He said it was because he hated it there and he was so unhappy he never wanted to do anything to make it nicer. He did lots of jobs around my house and helped to develop relationships with my kids. 
I guess what I’m trying to say is that sometimes even that isn’t enough. His kids didn’t want anything to do with him. He couldn’t walk away from them. You asked the question : do you think a man can love more than one women, is that possible? yes I think it is possible. I believe my xmm loves his wife, he had grown up with her, they have history and 3 kids. He may not be in love any more but he loved her enough to go back. 
I worry that your MM feels the same. I don’t think he will be able to leave her and if he does there is the risk he could go back at any time. 
I would take this time to decide if you want to stay married to your H and if you don’t think you might be happier on you own. I read on a different website a quote that I wrote down and I say to myself a lot. It makes sense and hopefully it might help. 
‘The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour ‘ 

Your MM’s past behaviour portends very bad news for you. I would walk away now and try to look to the future no matter how hard it is. You can do much better and your MM is not a safe bet. Not by a long shot. 
Sending hugs xo xo xo 

1 hour ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Can a man love more than one woman at once, is it poss

[Beca L]

20 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

Please. You are a grown woman, a mother. I find it impossible  to imagine that you don't have the restraint and the brains to decide to stay away from him and actually do it. I mean, what you are saying shows that you have not realized how much damaging all this is to everyone

I think you are being very harsh here. What do you really know ? Have you been in a similar situation ? Really ? Stop treating her like she’s some stupid teenager. Yes she is making some bad choices but I understand the pull to her MM is very strong. I think moving away may be a good option. I know working with my xmm is extremely difficult and it has completely hindered my recovery and yes I am able to do NC but that does not mean I have moved on or recovered. My xmm has not contacted me at all in the last 12 months. I was the one to restart the contact. However I believe that MadlyDeeply’s MM will not leave her alone. He will keep contacting her, that makes it much harder to walk away from. Show some empathy. 
She is weak and vulnerable and doesn’t need chastising. 

[SummerDreams]

16 minutes ago, Beca L said:

What do you really know ? 

Show some empathy. 
 

I know that none of the people involved deserve this betrayal and this pain they are experiencing. I think she is the one who needs to show expathy to the people she is supposed to love, her husband and her kids. Also to herself. I seem to care more for the innocent victims than she does. She is not living in a country where divorce is not allowed. She can divorce her H and be with her MM. Why doesn't she?

[Beca L]

Just now, SummerDreams said:

I know that none of the people involved deserve this betrayal and this pain they are experiencing.

Yes I agree. I was single when I got involved with my xmm and he left his wife within a month of anything physical happening between us. Looking back now he did not actually try to end his marriage the right way and tbh he took what I guess I would describe as a sabbatical. He just checked out for a year and when things got too complicated he literally just checked back in and his BS took him back with open arms. I’m guessing that you may have been a BS and I’m sorry for the pain you went through. It does sicken me that people don’t end a marriage before they take up with another but I blame that purely on cowardice and selfishness. They are scared of the unknown so they just dip their toes into another life, for awhile and when it all gets too hot and they need to make a serious decision they turn and run in the opposite direction. MD has said she’s not unhappy in her marriage and it is giving her something. She is being very selfish and a cake eater like her MM.

She doesn’t divorce her MM because she is weak, and cowardly and scared of the future. Her kids need a present father, she likes the shared parenting and company. So no she will not leave. But if MM leaves, divorces and offers to move her and the her kids in to his new place I’m sure she’ll get the courage from somewhere to leave. Not many people leave an ok marriage to be on their own, most have a back up plan when they go. I divorced my H because he made my life miserable and unbearable. He was emotional and on occasions physically abusive. That is why I had the courage to walk away. Things are not so bad for MD so she carries on and MM enables her to stay. 

[SummerDreams]

16 minutes ago, Beca L said:

 MD has said she’s not unhappy in her marriage and it is giving her something. She is being very selfish and a cake eater like her MM.

She doesn’t divorce her MM because she is weak, and cowardly and scared of the future. Her kids need a present father, she likes the shared parenting and company. So no she will not leave. But if MM leaves, divorces and offers to move her and the her kids in to his new place I’m sure she’ll get the courage from somewhere to leave. Not many people leave an ok marriage to be on their own, most have a back up plan when they go. I divorced my H because he made my life miserable and unbearable. He was emotional and on occasions physically abusive. That is why I had the courage to walk away. Things are not so bad for MD so she carries on and MM enables her to stay. 

We agree. But the right thing is that she either divorces or stays loyal to her husband. Her husband is a good husband and father with the condition that his wife is loyal to him, right? So he is being betrayed by her behavior. She asks from him to be a good father but she doesn't give back being a good wife. The deal is broken. Should I encourage her to keep doing this?

Quote

I’m guessing that you may have been a BS and I’m sorry for the pain you went through.

I have not. I simply believe that a marriage and some vows don't stop someone from falling in love with someone else so the right and noble thing to do it divorce and get together with the new person.

[Beca L]

I meant divorce her H 

[MadlyDeeply]

Hello Beca, thank you for your messages, sending hugs right back to you, definitely needed them at the moment. It has been tough reading all the comments, sometimes I dread looking to see what people have written. I need it though, it was my choice to put myself and my life on here, probably another one of my bad choices! Seriously, It is interesting to hear different points of view and I'm v grateful to everyone even the not so good comments, I can understand I make a lot of people angry or frustrated by what I say and if this was my daughter I would want to knock sense into her and tell her to wake up also. At the end of the day I'm human with feelings so I do get hurt. 

Beca our mms sound v alike, probably like a lot of the other mms too. I can't believe yours hasn't contacted you in a whole yr, would you be happy to hear from him or still too soon while trying to recover? I was so hoping you was on your road to recovery and I believe you are, it's just a long road with twists and turns but you will reach your destination as everyone always does. I think not seeing the person you are trying to get over helps, that's why I said about moving, trying to be realistic. I don't think you was conned, I do believe your mm loves you but it is their families, their history, it's all they have ever known that keeps them there and the security is a major factor when they are older. The unknown is so frightening for them even though they are grown men. Us woman are much stronger I know it often doesn't come over like that but I think we are. I know it will have to be me that ends my a, mm won't he wants us both of us. 

Thank you for your quote, I will add it to my list, they do make you think don't they. 

I don't think how ever hard we try, we could ever compete with all the history mm shares with his W. How can we, a few yrs compared to decades upon decades, have no chance! 

[Beca L]

Just now, SummerDreams said:

Quote

 

I have not. I simply believe that a marriage and some vows don't stop someone from falling in love with someone else so the right and noble thing to do it divorce and get together with the new person.

I completely agree. I was 100% faithful in my marriage and was never interested in another. I just wanted my H to be nice to me. I should never have married him in the first place. There were so many red flags but I ignored them. I don’t regret it as I have 3 beautiful children and my XH and I are friends now. However some people are unable to resist falling for another, they don’t have the right boundaries or they are dreamers. They believe  in fairytales. I do regret the pain I caused to my xmm BS but I guess I was lonely and he came along in my life when I was desperate for something. He filled a void and he swept me off my feet. I know that this won’t happen again. I have learnt a terrible lesson. I just hope MD doesn’t get too far down the line before she wakes up, it will just be harder for her in the long run. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

The only way I could ever get over my mm is to move away with my h and children so to never see him again.  

That would disrupt your family unit too, though, would it not? Uprooting your kids from the life they know, and not really being able to tell them why, is probably not in their best interests. 

Also, it does't solve the underlying problem of you being married to a man you view as a friend. It's true it would take this specific MM out of your life but it wouldn't address what led you into an affair to begin with. As such, you would be ripe for another one if a new guy who caught your interest stumbled into your life. It doesn't really matter where you are if you don't get at the root of the problems in your marriage and your own feelings and conduct, in other words. 

Moving away just doesn't seem very practical or realistic, or fair to your family. 

[Beca L]

48 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

I can't believe yours hasn't contacted you in a whole yr, would you be happy to hear from him or still too soon while trying to recover?

Hi,

are you in the U.K.? Just wondering.
In regards to your comment. The last two times we had contact with each other I started it. Last May we had been NC for about 5 weeks then I ended up having to be in a lesson with him for a whole hour. As you can imagine I just couldn’t contain myself and went to speak to him at the end. We then spent the next 8 weeks in some sort of relationship but as usually it was just a terrible disappointment for me. He kept saying he was at the edge of the cliff ready to jump and that he just couldn’t. He wasn’t ready to walk away from her. I always end things and it is never on good terms. It’s usually an argument, I just have enough of his empty promises and threaten to tell BS. I ended it in July last year and we didn’t speak for 15 weeks. It all started again in October because I went to a John Mayer concert that we were supposed to go together as a couple. I had bought tickets for us both to go.  I ended up going with my daughter. I just wanted to tell him about it as he is a big fan. That started things again and the same process starts over. He gives the impression he will leave but he never does. It all ended 10 weeks later 4 days before Xmas. We had a row and I again threatened to tell BS and that was the last time we spoke. I know that he would be very happy to keep things going with me as long as I don’t put any demands on him and press him to do anything. I just couldn’t do that. I had a relationship with him for a whole year. I don’t want scraps and want the real thing. 
I don’t think he will contact me. I’m not sure how I would feel. I doubt anything will have changed with him. 
Are you texting MM? Are you in contact ?

i agree we can’t compete with BS. The history and lives entwined it is just a losing battle. My MM loves the security and safety of being with her. He once described breaking away from her as trying to extract an egg from an omelette !!! Pretty impossible. 
Hope you have a better day. 

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

My h and i had lots of chats about our m, i asked for an open m but he didn't want one. 

So, you made it an “open” marriage, without his agreement or consent.

I’m sorry, I went through all that effort to gather all the things that you have said about this man... and you say, “I have painted a terrible picture of him, oh my....” This man who has lost count of the affairs he has had during his thirty five year marriage. Do you not see how absolutely ridiculous that sounds?

I’m going to step back, you are in no way ready to give up this affair. You are where you want to be. My heart hurts for your husband and your children. Best wishes to you. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[MadlyDeeply]

Bailey I am truly grateful to you, I appreciate all you have said and your advice to all the posts on Ls is spot on, I feel like you are my counselor I really do. Please don't think it was wasted on me, as I read what you gathered together for me over and over, sorry if I came across ungrateful. I am not v good with getting my points across. I know I sound absolutely ridiculous and I feel embarrassed by it all. I will continue to look over all my pages here until it all sinks in. I am going to disappear for a little while now too, cause I need some space and want to concentrate on my children without thinking about my a all the time. Thank you so much.

Beca I really hope you continue with your recovery, you sound like such an amazing person and you will meet the man you are meant to be with when you have recovered and at your strongest version of yourself as you are aware. Keep staying strong. Your omelette story made me feel sick, which is a good thing to remember, thank you for sharing. Yes I'm living in the uk, if we were to move, would still be in the uk. I will check in every now and again to see how you are and hopefully I shall be weeks into NC myself. 

ExpatinItaly we actually spoke about moving a few yrs ago, only a few hours away but would make all the difference. We should have moved at the time then I wouldn't have got with this mm. I can promise I will never do anything like this again as its my first and last a like I said in my original post! I will always remember your story too about your partners dad I think it was, shall have another look. Thank you.

Thank you to everyone who has helped knock some sense into me, I take on board a lot more than you think. Shall see you again soon. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by MadlyDeeply
Something to add

[stillafool]

7 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Question for all. There is a post on Ls  about a W who's h has been having an a for 12 yrs he sounds like my mm, obviously not a good thing but people on there think he loves his ow why is he different from my mm loving me? Is it the length of the a? Things like this confuse me further. 

I think you are talking about Edith.  She has accepted, in secret, that her husband is seeing one certain OW for 12 years as while a simultaneously having affairs with other women as well.  Edith doesn't care about the other OW just the one he's continues to contact for 12 years.  We say he loves her because she is the only one that he continues to go back to begging to see her.  This OW is married also but keeps him at arm's length which drives him crazy.  Edith is fine with him having affairs with others just not her.

[Bittersweetie]

Expat is correct in that moving and/or NC doesn't really resolve the underlying issues that brought you to an affair in the first place. You say you want to be where I am in my head now. I got here by not only addressing my issues surrounding my affair and marriage, but ALL my issues. They all ended up being intertwined. It was not easy or quick or painless but once I made the decision, I stuck with it. Yes it would've been easier to rug sweep or stop but I pushed through which has brought me to where I am today. Only you can decide how you want to act in life, and I hope you take this time to reflect on who you want to be and how you want to live your life moving forward. Good luck.

[Starswillshine]

You sound like a love sick fool. Geez. 

Yes there is a BS here whose husband is a serial cheat and keeps going back after this one OW. However, I doubt he loves her. I think he is chasing her because she keeps denying her. I dont call that love. That MM doesnt know what love is, imo. 

You are being irresponsible and reckless with your children's lives. Those you use as an excuse to stay in your marriage. You offered your husband an open marriage and he wasnt interested. Likely because one he isnt interested in being with anyone but you and also the idea of you being with someone else probably kills him. You act like it was such a blessing to be offered. You offered, and he said no, hurt oh, well, must continue on the affair. You are involving yourself with your husband's friend. You will get caught. You have been so reckless to meet up with him during this time, I doubt you are getting rid of his messages. No doubt, you re-read them. 

Maybe you win this MM by default because his wife leaves him which is what you are banking on. How does that feel? Winning him because she discards him? When he gets tired of you and everything is routine.... guess where you land. Exactly like his wife. With a serial cheater. 

And you are so blinded by this infautation that you cannot see it. 

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, stillafool said:

Edith doesn't care about the other OW just the one he's continues to contact for 12 years.  We say he loves her because she is the only one that he continues to go back to begging to see her.  This OW is married also but keeps him at arm's length which drives him crazy.  

Love is as much an action, as it is a feeling. That man is not behaving in a kind or loving way toward his spouse or the other woman, as a result both women appear to be living in their own kind of misery. He does not offer either woman respect, honesty, or loyalty. How can that be called love? 

I absolutely agree that he wants her, primarily because he can’t have her. But that’s a selfish kind of obsession. Its ego. It’s not love. 

 

 

[JimmyNorth]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

You sound like a love sick fool. Geez. 

Yes there is a BS here whose husband is a serial cheat and keeps going back after this one OW. However, I doubt he loves her. I think he is chasing her because she keeps denying her. I dont call that love. That MM doesnt know what love is, imo. 

You are being irresponsible and reckless with your children's lives. Those you use as an excuse to stay in your marriage. You offered your husband an open marriage and he wasnt interested. Likely because one he isnt interested in being with anyone but you and also the idea of you being with someone else probably kills him. You act like it was such a blessing to be offered. You offered, and he said no, hurt oh, well, must continue on the affair. You are involving yourself with your husband's friend. You will get caught. You have been so reckless to meet up with him during this time, I doubt you are getting rid of his messages. No doubt, you re-read them. 

Maybe you win this MM by default because his wife leaves him which is what you are banking on. How does that feel? Winning him because she discards him? When he gets tired of you and everything is routine.... guess where you land. Exactly like his wife. With a serial cheater. 

And you are so blinded by this infautation that you cannot see it. 

I can completely see your point of view on this. But can we look at a few points here that may be important to this situation?

First, we have to look at the angle where we know OP is no longer in love with H. We know that many will say that the “affair fog” is the reason for this, but maybe there are other stronger factors for this.

Lets imagine for a moment that OP does infact listen to your advice and dumps MM and goods all in with her H. We know her desire or spark is gone, or even completely dead for her H. If OP cannot rekindle her love inside her soul for her H, then how could we presume that the marriage would prosper in the future? Could we agree that it’s possible that OP lost her ability to have that feeling for H again?

We know that it is sad, and it may even seem selfish because of the kids and H feelings. But how does OP handle her own life and feelings? Look, I’m all for saving a marriage when possible as this is the best outcome for these situations. However, it may be a better choice for OP to move on to her next chapter in life rather than be a potentially depressed wife and mother at home which could have even greater negative effects on the kids.

If OP and MM were able to live a LONG fulfilling life together, do you think that would produce positive outcomes in the long term for everyone? OP’s H would end up being with somebody that adores him and the kids would eventually have two happy parents which is ultimately what they would have been wishing for. 

Yes, it’s true, BS’s do get hurt when their spouse is in a full fledged love affair with another. And I’m sure OP is feeling down about the whole thing, but how does she stop her heart from the way it’s feeling.

I believe that most of the time when a wife has a affair, if it’s just a fling and short lived, then you have hope of maybe rebuilding a marriage. But if it becomes a full fledged long term relationship, then that’s a different story.

[BaileyB]

57 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

I’m all for saving a marriage when possible as this is the best outcome for these situations. However, it may be a better choice for OP to move on to her next chapter in life rather than be a potentially depressed wife and mother at home which could have even greater negative effects on the kids.

If OP and MM were able to live a LONG fulfilling life together, do you think that would produce positive outcomes in the long term for everyone? OP’s H would end up being with somebody that adores him and the kids would eventually have two happy parents which is ultimately what they would have been wishing for. 

Yes, it’s true, BS’s do get hurt when their spouse is in a full fledged love affair with another. And I’m sure OP is feeling down about the whole thing, but how does she stop her heart from the way it’s feeling.

Indeed. If she has lost feelings of love for her husband, there is always divorce. It would be the kind thing to do for her husband. Divorce would be a better option than living life as a depressed wife and mother. It doesn’t seem to be an option for this poster, not in her mind, not at this time.

It would indeed be wonderful if her husband ended up with another woman who loved and adored him. Far better than what he has now, a marriage in which his wife is making a damn fool of him by having sex with his friend. If he knew the truth of his life, no doubt - after the initial pain of divorce, he would probably feel like he won the damn lottery to have the opportunity to spend the rest of his life with a woman who loved and adored him - and treated him with respect and loyalty.

I don’t know that she can stop her heart from feeling the way it’s feeling. She can however use her head to make a better decision for herself, her husband, and her children. The fact that she has feelings for this man does not mean that she needs to throw caution to the wind and act on them - she does have the ability to make a responsible decision for her family.

Whatever she decides about her marriage, it does not change the fact that this man is married. Wishing that it was different does not make it so. 

If we are being honest here, the odds that OP will have a LONG and fulfilling life with MM are not great. Would you take that risk, place your trust with a woman who has had sex during her marriage with more men than she can remember - lying to her own husband while sleeping with her friend’s husband? You’d have to be a truly hopeless romantic to do that...

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

I always feel that suggesting "opening up" the marriage is an incredibly cruel thing to do, unless both partners have always expressed an interest in doing so.
Where does it leave a partner?
"Sorry. I am not interested in you any more, I want to go and F"k other people.."
How does one really get over that?
But the "cheating" partner (there usually is a cheating partner). never seems to turn a hair.
"I asked him/her to open up the marriage they said no," seemingly the end of the story.
They just keep on cheating, no skin off their nose...
Who cares if their SO has been hurt to the core... it never seems to cross their minds...

[stillafool]

When D-day comes for OP and MM, and make no mistake it will, it is going to be so devastating to both BSs it would take a miracle for forgiveness.  In situations like this there is usually physical violence because of the parties involved and the deep betrayal. 

[JimmyNorth]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

When D-day comes for OP and MM, and make no mistake it will, it is going to be so devastating to both BSs it would take a miracle for forgiveness.  In situations like this there is usually physical violence because of the parties involved and the deep betrayal. 

For sure if DDay ever comes, worlds will be shattered. This is why both OP and MM should really think about their secret relationship and make a serious decision about setting their spouses free. MM and OP can’t let eachother go, there is a magnetism that runs strong between both of them.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, stillafool said:

When D-day comes for OP and MM, and make no mistake it will, it is going to be so devastating to both BSs it would take a miracle for forgiveness.  In situations like this there is usually physical violence because of the parties involved and the deep betrayal. 

I agree. 

Unfortunately, I think OP seems to have convinced herself that her husband wouldn't be that hurt since she keeps saying he knows they're only together for the kids and he once said he'd forgive an affair. She's in a lot of denial about what this will do to her entire life if this comes out someday. (sorry to talk about in the third-person Madly, if you're still reading)

[JimmyNorth]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I agree. 

Unfortunately, I think OP seems to have convinced herself that her husband wouldn't be that hurt since she keeps saying he knows they're only together for the kids and he once said he'd forgive an affair. She's in a lot of denial about what this will do to her entire life if this comes out someday. (sorry to talk about in the third-person Madly, if you're still reading)

I’m thinking the Husband would hurt, BUT....OP did already ask for an open marriage. That in itself should be enough to set a new foundation on what the husband should be expecting for the future. Thus making her exit not as painful as a bomb drop and thinking his wife was perfect.

You might say the OP is in a forbidden love, but the matters of the heart are very real and not necessarily malicious at the core.