UPDATE: New dad with grieving teenager - 2 months on

[SincereOnlineGuy]

...  you won't need to spell-out  where babies come from   when you are telling this tale,  BUT it does make sense to get way  back there, mostly as a means through which to build a foundation which will really allow your story  to matter in the moment...   and when it winds-back to the present, then you can so honestly spell-out your greatly conflicted feelings (of sorrow and delight)...  

 

and it'll help to affirm that you ARE   "with  her"   and not merely consoling her (as a could-seem outsider).

 

(NOT that she doesn't already have the right/accurate sense OF you...  but... just see how the story helps, and don't be afraid to build it  with  (G-rated) details )

 

[Ellener]

You are coming towards the end now @Ollie180 and you should consider - no one is ever 'ready' or fully prepared for the ending of life.

You did a lot of things in the last few weeks which changed your own life to include others, to make death better, and you will be able to both celebrate and mourn simultaneously, and need to quickly adapt to how your new loved ones react to your reacting!

There is a poem talks about how we will react to death at our most visceral level, because it's what will happen to us all inevitably: 

And You as Well Must Die, Beloved Dust

And you as well must die, beloved dust,

And all your beauty stand you in no stead;

This flawless, vital hand, this perfect head,

This body of flame and steel, before the gust

Of Death, or under his autumnal frost,

Shall be as any leaf, be no less dead

Than the first leaf that fell,—this wonder fled.

Altered, estranged, disintegrated, lost.

Nor shall my love avail you in your hour.

In spite of all my love, you will arise

Upon that day and wander down the air

Obscurely as the unattended flower,

It mattering not how beautiful you were,

Or how beloved above all else that dies.

 

Edna St. Vincent Millay

 

Sending you love and courage in these final hours. 

 

 

[mrs rubble]

Hello Ollie, I started reading your thread from the beginning, but haven’t ever replied. What a story!! 

You have done an amazing job as a “new” dad! I’ve just caught up on what I’ve missed out on, and I’m praying that you and your daughter find comfort and love and hugs with each other as this journey continues, what a blessing you have in each other. I’m especially happy that her mother sought you out, so this could all happen! 

Sending love from Aotearoa. 

[Ollie180]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:53 AM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

and it'll help to affirm that you ARE   "with  her"   and not merely consoling her (as a could-seem outsider).

(NOT that she doesn't already have the right/accurate sense OF you...  but... just see how the story helps, and don't be afraid to build it  with  (G-rated) details )

 

Yeah I hear you! I guess the special thing of it is that it’s our story now, not mine, not hers, they’re mixed up together!!

You know it’s funny you say not to be afraid of the “g rated details”! I think that that is one of the things that is probably most different about our relationship us having met with her already as a 15 (going on 25) year old teenager vs had I been in her life since she was born! She’s got a funny girl, she genuinely really has a good sense of humour, but some of the things she says.. I KNOW she wouldn’t make that kind of joke/comment in front of her mum!

Like, obviously I’ll never be able to come close to replacing the relationship she has with her mum, that bond that’s built when you parent looks after you as you grow up - teaches you to swim, to ride a bike, makes your knee better when you fall. It’s a shared history I guess. But we do have good chat me and her I think she’s quite open with me, which is probably quite a good thing for us to have and the age/stage of their life she’s at right now! 
 

We were watching a really interesting Netflix documentary about drugs.. and we were having a good chat about it, because I’m actually very anti drugs but for very real world reasons not what you read on a poster in a school corridor. But I think it’s actually kinda easier in a way for me and her to have chats like that, because I see her as a teenager not a little kid, and I guess she seems me as a bloke that’s lived a life.... I think it’s normally hard to imagine your parents as people before they were parents!

 

I don’t know if I put this on here but she told me a while back now she got a telling off at school, because they were studying hamlet and the line was “To speak of horrors - he comes before me” and my daughters ad lib was something along the lines of “poor form, sort it out hamlet”! ......I told her that I wouldn’t tell her mum what she said, as long as she didn’t tell her mum that I laughed! 🙈

[Ollie180]

13 hours ago, Ellener said:

You are coming towards the end now @Ollie180 and you should consider - no one is ever 'ready' or fully prepared for the ending of life.

You did a lot of things in the last few weeks which changed your own life to include others, to make death better, and you will be able to both celebrate and mourn simultaneously, and need to quickly adapt to how your new loved ones react to your reacting!

No you’re right! Even when we know it’s coming you can’t ever really prepare! I think grief is so hard because it hits you time after time and sometimes the first hit isn’t always the hardest (especially I think when you’re young)! And I think like, when I talk to people (like people in my real life) I think they think I must have all the answers because of having been somewhat in DD’s shoes......which I don’t think is quite true! I haven’t got some magic sentence to tell that will just fix everything! But I guess I do understand how deep that loss feels (that sad thing is that, I know that at the moment, I understand that a lot more than she does, and I wish that she could keep that ignorant bliss for wayyyy longer than she’ll have the chance too! ).

But yeah, I guess at the moment I just let DD lead and then I just react to however she’s feeling really! 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Ollie180]

8 hours ago, mrs rubble said:

Hello Ollie, I started reading your thread from the beginning, but haven’t ever replied. What a story!! 

You have done an amazing job as a “new” dad! I’ve just caught up on what I’ve missed out on, and I’m praying that you and your daughter find comfort and love and hugs with each other as this journey continues, what a blessing you have in each other. I’m especially happy that her mother sought you out, so this could all happen! 

Sending love from Aotearoa. 

Hey there!

Thank you, firstly!! And yeah I agree on your last point - me and her mum never stayed in touch all those years but it means an awful lot to me that on the back of such heartbreaking news she made the choice to come and find me, and to trust that I could be what DD needed me to be! (Plus I guess I should probably give a shout out to the good power of social media on that!)

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Ollie180 said:

I haven’t got some magic sentence to tell that will just fix everything!

The magic sentence is 'I will always be your dad'. Simple ( and complicated ) as that. 

🌳

☁️

🖊️

Tagore, The Gardener : 


Peace, my heart, let the time for
the parting be sweet.
Let it not be a death but completeness.
Let love melt into memory and pain
into songs.
Let the flight through the sky end
in the folding of the wings over the
nest.
Let the last touch of your hands be
gentle like the flower of the night.
Stand still, 0 Beautiful End, for a
moment, and say your last words in
silence.
I bow to you and hold up my lamp
to light you on your way.

🪔

[Ellener]

It's a tough few days ahead. 

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 10/10/2020 at 5:14 AM, Ollie180 said:

Yeah I hear you! I guess the special thing of it is that it’s our story now, not mine, not hers, they’re mixed up together!!

You know it’s funny you say not to be afraid of the “g rated details”! I think that that is one of the things that is probably most different about our relationship us having met with her already as a 15 (going on 25) year old teenager vs had I been in her life since she was born! She’s got a funny girl, she genuinely really has a good sense of humour, but some of the things she says.. I KNOW she wouldn’t make that kind of joke/comment in front of her mum!

Like, obviously I’ll never be able to come close to replacing the relationship she has with her mum, that bond that’s built when you parent looks after you as you grow up - teaches you to swim, to ride a bike, makes your knee better when you fall. It’s a shared history I guess. But we do have good chat me and her I think she’s quite open with me, which is probably quite a good thing for us to have and the age/stage of their life she’s at right now! 
 

We were watching a really interesting Netflix documentary about drugs.. and we were having a good chat about it, because I’m actually very anti drugs but for very real world reasons not what you read on a poster in a school corridor. But I think it’s actually kinda easier in a way for me and her to have chats like that, because I see her as a teenager not a little kid, and I guess she seems me as a bloke that’s lived a life.... I think it’s normally hard to imagine your parents as people before they were parents!

 

I don’t know if I put this on here but she told me a while back now she got a telling off at school, because they were studying hamlet and the line was “To speak of horrors - he comes before me” and my daughters ad lib was something along the lines of “poor form, sort it out hamlet”! ......I told her that I wouldn’t tell her mum what she said, as long as she didn’t tell her mum that I laughed! 🙈

 

I think you have correct instincts and understandings for the  end result (being a relationship where both are more comfortable as father/daughter) but that your wording is a tiny bit off as to the reasons why:

 

The... relative positions known to mother/daughter were formed with every time she banged her head against the coffee table while learning to walk, and every time she wanted candy at the store and mom said 'no'...    and they were very much appropriate,  yet daughter wasn't old enough to reason in her own mind  as that relationship formed.   The rare relationship you share with her arose when two people who each already knew how to reason were introduced to one another and were caused by logic/all-around-expectation to be  immediately important  to one another.

And that can and does have advantages, (NOT to say for sure that it is 'better...' ) yet it's just so RARE, that not everybody is qualified to go out and write a book about such experiences.

 

(This is a weird tangent, but I need it because I fear my words are not fully describing what I mean)

Consider a married couple...  say together 8-ish years, and they've had a normal set of arguments for that amount of time... and each has vulnerable areas, with the other slowly learning which those are, and at times taking opportunities  to hurt the other in those vulnerable areas.   Eventually communication within the marriage slows a great deal, and then becomes a barrier...

well then, say....  introduce, eh, maybe some guy in an online chatroom...  who is online and chatting with the married woman, as she stays home with two kids, while that married father is out bringing home the bacon.   The woman is otherwise stuck with zero adult interaction all day, and her husband is no longer any good that way because communication has broken down within their marriage.

That woman yearns so much for adult communication, and she is entirely eager to pour her thoughts out to (the only adult  who will listen)...   and she will express almost ANYthing to him, just for his having facilitated that simple outlet.   And in ways she cannot seem to figure out WHY she is SO drawn to the random guy from the chatroom...  who is in turn across the world, or across the street, anonymously in awe that (gasp) a woman is so willing to spill so many personal details  (aka - just be herself )

 

*********************************

OK, the parallel in that is DD and mum's relationship has gone on steadily for so long, and in very appropriate parental manner  that it has distinct 'limits' (which are NOT in any way actually bad - they are necessary and important to everyone)  ...  but it parallels that communication breakdown mentioned above...  (which in the marriage entailed two people allowing the breakdown).    (the daughter in a mother/daughter relationship cannot seemingly cross-over the rules/boundaries OF the relationship, because the rules/boundaries were the only parameters she's ever known) (while those within the fictitious marriage above created their own unique rules through shared reasoning as they went along )   (** daughter CAN cross the rules/boundaries OF society, but that does not alter the parameters of the relationship)

 

And you parallel the personality who arose from the same effective randomness as a chatroom person... but who arrived with immediate # importance # ... (unlike the chatroom guy)  (which was DD's ticket to relax and trust...  while a young person fully capable of 'reasoning' )

So you CAN...  enjoy the eventually-awesome benefits of your own unique father-daughter roles, in part because you arrived through zero fault of your own from such an odd angle.

 

(man, I wonder what it is like... to effectively grow up with one parent...  and ONLY 3/4-ish of the way,  acquire the other natural parent... and go the rest of the way alone with that new parent  {MINUS the usual scorn reserved only for parents who consciously remove themselves from a kid's life} )

 

(sigh)  But first...   some life challenges...

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by SincereOnlineGuy

[Ellener]

Is she gone?

I send you all the love in the world @Ollie180

[Ollie180]

On 10/12/2020 at 9:04 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 The rare relationship you share with her arose when two people who each already knew how to reason were introduced to one another and were caused by logic/all-around-expectation to be  immediately important  to one another.

...

OK, the parallel in that is DD and mum's relationship has gone on steadily for so long, and in very appropriate parental manner  that it has distinct 'limits' (which are NOT in any way actually bad - they are necessary and important to everyone)  ...  but it parallels that communication breakdown mentioned above...  (which in the marriage entailed two people allowing the breakdown).    (the daughter in a mother/daughter relationship cannot seemingly cross-over the rules/boundaries OF the relationship, because the rules/boundaries were the only parameters she's ever known) (while those within the fictitious marriage above created their own unique rules through shared reasoning as they went along )   (** daughter CAN cross the rules/boundaries OF society, but that does not alter the parameters of the relationship)

And you parallel the personality who arose from the same effective randomness as a chatroom person... but who arrived with immediate # importance # ... (unlike the chatroom guy)  (which was DD's ticket to relax and trust...  while a young person fully capable of 'reasoning' )

So you CAN...  enjoy the eventually-awesome benefits of your own unique father-daughter roles, in part because you arrived through zero fault of your own from such an odd angle.

Yeah I totally get what your saying!! It can’t be ignored though that I’ve been EXTREMELY lucky that DD was as open to getting to know me as she has been! Like right from the start she was friendly, met me half way... I feel like that could have been a massively different story with most teenagers in her position tbh!

On 10/12/2020 at 9:04 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

(man, I wonder what it is like... to effectively grow up with one parent...  and ONLY 3/4-ish of the way,  acquire the other natural parent... and go the rest of the way alone with that new parent  {MINUS the usual scorn reserved only for parents who consciously remove themselves from a kid's life} )

(sigh)  But first...   some life challenges...

Yeah.... I mean, I don’t reckon there’s many people that could answer that question for you other than DD, pretty rare!

[Ollie180]

On 10/10/2020 at 2:35 PM, Ellener said:

The magic sentence is 'I will always be your dad'. Simple ( and complicated ) as that. 

Yeah I guess so, I guess so! 
Simple and complicated ....strange like that, huh!
 

On 10/12/2020 at 7:13 AM, Ellener said:

It's a tough few days ahead. 

 

💛

On 10/13/2020 at 2:21 AM, Ellener said:

Is she gone?

I send you all the love in the world @Ollie180

No, she’s on a lot of meds still though, so very sleepy! It’s tough because due to covid they only want one person in the hospice visiting at a time and so I’ve been taking DD every day after school but I haven’t actually seen her mum for a while now because she’s always asleep when DD leaves her.......which means I can’t really tell for myself like how she’s doing, just have to hear it from the staff! Going to try and see if I can see her Saturday hopefully.

 

Thank you El!

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Ollie180

[Ellener]

1 minute ago, Ollie180 said:

Yeah I guess so, I guess so! 
Simple and complicated ....strange like that, huh!
 

💛

No, she’s on a lot of meds still though, so very sleepy! It’s tough because due to covid they only want one person in the hospice visiting at a time and so I’ve been taking DD every day after school but I haven’t actually seen her mum for a while now because she’s always asleep when DD leaves her.......which means I can’t really tell for myself like how she’s doing, just have to hear it from the staff! Going to try and see if I can see her Saturday hopefully.

 

 

That's how end of life is. Of course it's been way more complicated with the pandemic situation. 

But if she's sleeping it's for the best.

Sending you much love. 

 

[Ollie180]

Iconic day today... first time in my new 2020 life as a parent that DD had a proper teenager strop with me! 🙈

She was just stressed I think because she’d got back from visiting her mum this morn, and was stressed about all the talk in England today about going back Into lockdown. She had a bit of a fall out with her bff on the phone about something, nothing serious but she’s been best friends with this girl since they were practically in nappies, so I just said like ‘it’s okay to have a bad day kid, it’s fine, so just own it, don’t fall into that trap of taking it out on the people that care”

She didn’t like that at all! Proper teenage ‘why you taking her side’ strop. Told me she was going outside..

“mate you don’t want to go outside - it’s hailing”

Que “You don’t know what I want Ollie, you don’t even know me”

 

Obviously she came back in after like 20 mins because who wants to sit outside in the rain 😉 AND she rang bff (I could literally hear her on the phone “sorry, I’m just having a bad day, I didn’t mean to take it out on you“ 🙄😂)

She didn’t come and talk to me for a fair while though so after a bit I thought I’ll go see her then.... I made like a little white flag 🏳️ that I took in her room, which made her laugh, she was straight away like ‘I’m sorry Ollie, you were right’ (shame I didn’t get that declaration in writing, I’m not sure a girl has ever said those words to me 🙈🤣). I asked her “about which bit, taking stress out on folk or not wanting to sit in the rain?” She said both and came and gave me a hug, said she didn’t mean anything she said, and that she ‘appreciates everything I’ve done for her’. I’m absolutely not the kinda guy who holds a grudge in anyway, I just asked her if she wanted to talk about everything and she said she didn’t really she said she just needs to chill out, so we got a takeaway and put the halloween horror films on, and then we did end up having a chat about some of the stuff that’s stressing her out..

She seems her usual self now and personally I feel like I’ve just ticked off a rite of passage! Teenage strop - check! 🤣

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Hold on, 

 

I gotta go look up "strop"

[SincereOnlineGuy]

noun

INFORMAL•BRITISH

noun: strop; plural noun: strops

a bad mood; a temper.

 

I think m-m-m-m-m-m-MOST important in what you report  is that she exercised the... (ability to quickly repair anything that was done)

 

Because when she's 17,... or 19...    you don't want one little dispute to snowball...  and cause her NOT to talk with you...  until it becomes something out of control.

 

 

Like everything else, it was merely a stepping stone toward the  (place from which you wanna look BACK,  when she's 39, and still happily in your surroundings perhaps with kids of her own).

 

 

 

PS -  tell her that "lockdown" is better than the alternatives...

 

And I wonder...   if the end of high school might be among the very worst places/periods to be in   as Covid alters our lives.

 

(er, well, I mean...  among those destined to never catch Covid itself)

Edited October 31, 2020 by SincereOnlineGuy

[Ollie180]

4 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

noun INFORMAL•BRITISH

noun: strop; plural noun: strops

a bad mood; a temper.

Haha yeah.. I’m not quite sure what the alternative for that word is 🤔

6 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

I think m-m-m-m-m-m-MOST important in what you report  is that she exercised the... (ability to quickly repair anything that was done)

Because when she's 17,... or 19...    you don't want one little dispute to snowball...  and cause her NOT to talk with you...  until it becomes something out of control.

Yeah this is true! I know I’m bias but she is genuinely a very good kid in that regard! She’s very easy going / good natured by default, and although she might rant about things she’s definitely not one to shut me out, or not talk to me.. she’s very open.

Which is good and like you say I want to keep that kind of relationship for sure, because I know that that only gets more important as she gets a bit older!

11 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

And I wonder...   if the end of high school might be among the very worst places/periods to be in   as Covid alters our lives.

(er, well, I mean...  among those destined to never catch Covid itself)

100%

We’re in lockdown for 4 weeks now but the schools will stay open!
However, genuinely I feel very sorry for kids in her year this year! No certainty about exams, unlike last year these kids will probably have to sit them despite missing lots of school, no certainty about their futures, colleges, jobs, and also just a difficult time in your life to be isolated from your mates!

But above ALL of this, the difference for DD, the thing I know bothers her above everything else.. lockdown could mean that she won’t be able to visit her mum. I’ll have to ring the place tomorrow and see what they say. Tough pill to swallow that!

[Ellener]

15 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

We’re in lockdown for 4 weeks now but the schools will stay open!
However, genuinely I feel very sorry for kids in her year this year! No certainty about exams, unlike last year these kids will probably have to sit them despite missing lots of school, no certainty about their futures, colleges, jobs, and also just a difficult time in your life to be isolated from your mates!

But above ALL of this, the difference for DD, the thing I know bothers her above everything else.. lockdown could mean that she won’t be able to visit her mum. I’ll have to ring the place tomorrow and see what they say. Tough pill to swallow that!

I talked to my friend on Friday, I recently stayed with her mother who has dementia for 48 hours because they are so exhausted...but when they found a nursing home placement the first thing they were told is she has to quarantine 14 days. Totally the opposite of dealing with dementia successfully. 

My son graduated university this year, I pushed for it and facilitated it, even though the extreme expense seems not worth it in the US these days.

I told him education is a discipline!

I wish my son had had a dad figure...like you.

 

[Ollie180]

6 hours ago, Ellener said:

I talked to my friend on Friday, I recently stayed with her mother who has dementia for 48 hours because they are so exhausted...but when they found a nursing home placement the first thing they were told is she has to quarantine 14 days. Totally the opposite of dealing with dementia successfully. 

Jeez that’s tough!

Its such a tricky thing, because I understand that the god have to balance everythinggg and try and protect the majority.. but when it comes to the individual, sometimes to them what they’re dealing with feels so much bigger than the virus! Like, DD doesn’t really care about the ‘R number’ she’s just a kid that wants to be able to visit her mum!

7 hours ago, Ellener said:

My son graduated university this year, I pushed for it and facilitated it, even though the extreme expense seems not worth it in the US these days.

I told him education is a discipline!

I wish my son had had a dad figure...like you.

Oh well done him! Good job mum!! 😉 I hope it opens some good doors for him once everything stabilises after Covid.

DD’s mum feels very strongly that she wants her to go to uni, she’s put money aside just for that, but DD consistently tells me she doesn’t think it’s for her. 🤷🏼‍♂️ We’ll just see when we get to it, I think she doesn’t enjoy education because (Like me tbh) she’s much more practically minded than theoretically, but she might feel different about uni when she properly settles on what she wants to do!

Thank you! ..Y’know it’s corny as you can get but, I never had a dad or even a father figure in my life, until like right now, this moment, cause now he looks me back in the mirror. There’s something very settling, almost like closure, about getting a chance now to be the dad that I never had, that I needed! That’s a special moment that your boy will get too one day!

 

[Ellener]

15 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

Jeez that’s tough!

Its such a tricky thing, because I understand that the god have to balance everythinggg and try and protect the majority.. but when it comes to the individual, sometimes to them what they’re dealing with feels so much bigger than the virus! Like, DD doesn’t really care about the ‘R number’ she’s just a kid that wants to be able to visit her mum!

Oh well done him! Good job mum!! 😉 I hope it opens some good doors for him once everything stabilises after Covid.

DD’s mum feels very strongly that she wants her to go to uni, she’s put money aside just for that, but DD consistently tells me she doesn’t think it’s for her. 🤷🏼‍♂️ We’ll just see when we get to it, I think she doesn’t enjoy education because (Like me tbh) she’s much more practically minded than theoretically, but she might feel different about uni when she properly settles on what she wants to do!

Thank you! ..Y’know it’s corny as you can get but, I never had a dad or even a father figure in my life, until like right now, this moment, cause now he looks me back in the mirror. There’s something very settling, almost like closure, about getting a chance now to be the dad that I never had, that I needed! That’s a special moment that your boy will get too one day!

 

Yes, I was a loving mum, my dad refused to pay for my university education but at the end of his life he apologised. He did pay for my sister's education, and ironically she specialised in infection control. 

My dad used to say- face yourself in the mirror. 

I did a terrible thing forcing parenthood on my son's father. You accepted it as a gift. 

 

 

[Ollie180]

On 11/2/2020 at 1:02 PM, Ellener said:

Yes, I was a loving mum, my dad refused to pay for my university education but at the end of his life he apologised. He did pay for my sister's education, and ironically she specialised in infection control. 

My dad used to say- face yourself in the mirror. 

I did a terrible thing forcing parenthood on my son's father. You accepted it as a gift. 

No way, ahead of her time there, I’m sure thats a subject/industry that will grow massively over the next 5-10 years!

His loss for sure!! Being a parent is a gift!! DD would have been everything to me even if her mum had told me about her when I was 19, but I know that DD was okay, she had a ‘dad’ in her life who loved her I’m sure, it’s was probably far ore my loss than hers! But the fact that I get a chance to be her dad now, that’s a huge gift, the fact that she could of been out there all her life and me not know her, that’s terrifying. 

[Ollie180]

Its DD’s birthday tomorrow. Sweet 16. Her first birthday since I’ve known her. ... It’s also the first day of lockdown 2 in England which is not the way I would have planned to celebrate it with her but, is what it is! We’ve had her best mate staying last night and tonight because after that they won’t be able to have any sleepovers for a while. Tomorrow it’ll have to be just us and a night in...🤷🏼‍♂️but I’ll make it as good as I can, me and my gf are going to decorate while she’s at school and we’ve got some fireworks as it’s bonfire night 🎇

[basil67]

She's so lucky to have you Ollie.  

[SincereOnlineGuy]

8 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

Its DD’s birthday tomorrow. Sweet 16. Her first birthday since I’ve known her. ... It’s also the first day of lockdown 2 in England which is not the way I would have planned to celebrate it with her but, is what it is! We’ve had her best mate staying last night and tonight because after that they won’t be able to have any sleepovers for a while. Tomorrow it’ll have to be just us and a night in...🤷🏼‍♂️but I’ll make it as good as I can, me and my gf are going to decorate while she’s at school and we’ve got some fireworks as it’s bonfire night 🎇

 

FIND some of the LITERATURE somewhere that expresses   (November 5 ?)   as the date beginning the lock-down... and PRESERVE it for the future...

 

and for laughs about   her   "Sweet 16"  (when looking back)

 

 

[Ollie180]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:37 PM, basil67 said:

She's so lucky to have you Ollie.  

Thank you basil! I’m lucky to have her too 😊

On 11/5/2020 at 4:03 AM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

FIND some of the LITERATURE somewhere that expresses   (November 5 ?)   as the date beginning the lock-down... and PRESERVE it for the future...

and for laughs about   her   "Sweet 16"  (when looking back)

Haha for sure, for sure!