How to do this?

[Azincourt]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

No, some women just want to date good guys who make them feel good.
Looks are overrated.

I wonder why Georgina Rodriguez is dating Cristiano Ronaldo instead of dating me, then 😝

Quote

Your mentality is the EXACT OPPOSITE of mine. When I see a girl that most guys would look at and want to be with, I could care less about any other guys that want to compete for her. I know who I am and what I have to offer and have enough confidence to know that she should consider herself fortunate to be with a guy like me. And if she doesn't see that, then that's her loss. 

Yeah, I've always been pretty chill about it. Wonder if it's genetics or the enviroment as any time I'd have a guy with a better body than mine interested in the same woman I was interested in, I'd just give up and not do anything about it.

Moved to an European college town/beach town when I was 18. Approached one girl back in college - only woman I've ever approached - she rejected me and I figured that women like Kylie Jenner(exactly what the college girl looked like) were way out of my league, so I just chilled and waited for women to approach me, and the women who approached me and still approach me are women who are very tall, very pretty, but also very skinny.

But hey it's better than not getting approached at all 🤣

Edited March 18, 2020 by Azincourt

[elaine567]

God knows why? Wasn't he accused of rape?

[Azincourt]

Which rich guy isn't accused of rape or sexual harassment?

Easy money.

João Félix went from being a 18 year old kid who got no attention from women(according to what he said) to having hundreds of Spanish women send him nudes and offer him One-Night stands as soon as it was announced he'd be earning 5 or 6 million euros a year after taxes 🤣

After a week of signing his contract with Atlético de Madrid he got a top supermodel as a girlfriend, who does nothing with her life other than hang out in his 2.5 million euros mansion, and a few months after becoming world-famous he's being accused of sexual harrasment by a Spanish doctor who slept with him, got mad that he just wanted casual sex, saved and sent the instagram convo between them(where he's begging her to come spend the night with him) to his girlfriend, only for his girlfriend to dump him.

A week later they're back together.

I love pink drama 🤣

Edited March 18, 2020 by Azincourt

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, Sinful said:

Your mentality is the EXACT OPPOSITE of mine. When I see a girl that most guys would look at and want to be with, I could care less about any other guys that want to compete for her. I know who I am and what I have to offer and have enough confidence to know that she should consider herself fortunate to be with a guy like me. And if she doesn't see that, then that's her loss. 

I don't have to chase anybody or compete against anybody else and neither should you. My ex, in time, will realize that she threw away her relationship with the best guy that ever happened to her. But that's her loss. 

Change your mindset and watch your whole life change along with it.

All very good and well but I would guess you have had some success? This approach is frankly impossible when one had had no success at all, what then happens is you start wondering why and accomplish nothing by doing so.

My mind set is backed up by my experiences, I have tried to change my experience and find better experiences and more success but frankly nothing really changes.

 

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, Envy123 said:

Well, I am obese and need a combination of exercise and liposuction to actually become somewhat average looking. I do look permanently pregnant.

But I not only attract women who look like models my whole life, it's the only type of woman I attract. While I fail to attract the girls who are quirky and down-to-earth.

It is about lifestyle, demographics and compatibility in the end of the day. I don't read books, nor do I travel, so I do not attract women who do either of those things often. But the women I attract have a carefree attitude, much like myself, so there is some compatibility to at least start things off.

You are indeed very fortunate to attract those you find attractive. Carefree I am not, would be nice to be but what I spend my days doing isn't really carefree stuff, would be nice to be the life of the party but I cant be that either because I am too shy. Frankly the only time I MIGHT ever attract someone would be if I became a pity project but that doesn't interest and morally I wont do that either.

There is never much compatibility with me, in fact basically never. I have chased people where I do feel there is some compatibility but each time its never got me anywhere, so again I can chase this pretty marketing lady but there is no real compatibility at all, hence the reason I try look for shared interests to try garner some compatibility.

I also learnt something, people are going to gravitate towards like, what I mean is why would anyone go out with me if they can have someone better, they wouldn't. Which is why I attract the people I do, because perhaps to them I am seen as "better".

People tend to forget zero dating experience is a massive red flag for most, I have tried to hide the truth a few times about this but it never really works. Throwing expensive dinners and gifts doesn't help either.

A very good example of something I tried a few years ago, I found someone who does have similar main interests to me, brunette, slim, attractive so I decided to try my luck and got nowhere, why because some dude could offer her better experiences than I could. This and other examples made me realise WHO YOU ARE actually doesn't matter most of the time its rather WHAT you can GIVE. However, there is a exception on my judgemental list, genuinely nice guys who can punch above their weight, they deserve what they accomplish but how they do it is mostly because they are very sociable, integrate well with other people. Sure I can integrate well around a board room table but less so at a bar so ultimately I need to decide what is more important to me.

[Sinful]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

All very good and well but I would guess you have had some success? This approach is frankly impossible when one had had no success at all, what then happens is you start wondering why and accomplish nothing by doing so.

My mind set is backed up by my experiences, I have tried to change my experience and find better experiences and more success but frankly nothing really changes.

 

If you change your mentality and work on bettering yourself and building your confidence, then you will see success. You can't expect to change overnight. It takes time. Just like you can't change your body overnight, you need the same time and training to change your mindset. Get off the OLD sites, and start working on YOU.

It's not impossible. Link up with someone who can see your faults objectively and help you.

 

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

People tend to forget zero dating experience is a massive red flag for most, I have tried to hide the truth a few times about this but it never really works. Throwing expensive dinners and gifts doesn't help either.

You have some dating experience it seems from your posts, you have been on dates.  You just haven't found the person for you, that is you have a hard time connecting.

However, there is a exception on my judgemental list,

genuinely nice guys who can punch above their weight, they deserve what they accomplish but how they do it is mostly because they are very sociable, integrate well with other people. Sure I can integrate well around a board room table but less so at a bar so ultimately I need to decide what is more important to me.

Taking your statements a little out of order.  The above right there is the key.  Not just the forms of niceness, but genuine deep down.  Proper manners and all the forms of niceness cannot hide a negative / can't do view.  When you vent here it comes across as very judgmental of women and others, dismissive of other's experiences which are counter to your theories of people, bitter and very can't do attitude in the realm of social interaction.  I believe a lot of us are trying to tell you it is not because of your looks (you appear to have above average looks in your picture) or money.   

Sure getting the 6 pack abs like in your profile experiment seems to work...so you can go that way...it takes work and time, no quick fix.  You seem like the kind of guy that can do that, so why not.  Sure getting very wealthy can at least attract gold diggers, is that a path you can make happen?

In the end you don't need to learn to be sociable to all people just the women you are attracted to.  

It's also not mutually exclusive navigating a board room or a bar.  I do think a bar is the last place to try to meet someone.  I'm going to guess for the bars you are thinking of that is a scene rife with looks and small talk skills being everything.

This and other examples made me realise WHO YOU ARE actually doesn't matter most of the time its rather WHAT you can GIVE.

Taken this statement out of order as you do seem to realize that genuinely nice guys can punch above their weight.

Usually it is all about who you are.  Positive energy is everything.  In that sense, yes the kind of energy you give is important.  Material things, those are usually only needed to compensate for something lacking in the who you are department. 

[preraph]

I don't think you ought to be trying to date business associates at all. your failure rate is too great and then it's just going to be awkward. and the worst part of it is because you are some sort of a business associate she may feel obligated to humor you for a while. No chance this is going to go well.

[Fletch Lives]

We date to get a person around us so they might fall in love.

You work with her so there is no need to date right away. Wait and see if she asks you out.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Sinful said:

If you change your mentality and work on bettering yourself and building your confidence, then you will see success. You can't expect to change overnight. It takes time. Just like you can't change your body overnight, you need the same time and training to change your mindset. Get off the OLD sites, and start working on YOU.

It's not impossible. Link up with someone who can see your faults objectively and help you.

 

Sure, it would help there was a generic "better" but that doesn't seem to be the case. I have spent years trying to tailor myself to the wants of ladies and where did that get me exactly. Part of the reason I go out is to observe and see what I do so wrong that others do so right and then try work on those things, which is where the whole looks thing comes from, honestly it might not be easy for good looking guys but I do believe it easier, likewise for 'easy going" guys who have "charm". Objectively I look at that and then equate what I have in terms of qualities and truthfully I don't have much of those things. I enjoy challenges, I do a very challenging job which in a way fortunately consumes a lot a time and fortunately puts me around dynamic interesting and motivated people.

Your last comment is very relevant and very true, however this is basically impossible to find, I did find someone last year and she and I talked through it I could take the heavy criticism I received on the chin but ultimately in her opinion there was nothing to really work with, which hurt a bit but my life is all about being kicked around and getting up so the feeling soon passed. In some respects she was most of what I liked and I would have liked an opportunity to try with her, she however at 37 wanted someone more long term than the short term gamble which I apparently am.

 

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, SumGuy said:

You have some dating experience it seems from your posts, you have been on dates.  You just haven't found the person for you, that is you have a hard time connecting.

Taking your statements a little out of order.  The above right there is the key.  Not just the forms of niceness, but genuine deep down.  Proper manners and all the forms of niceness cannot hide a negative / can't do view.  When you vent here it comes across as very judgmental of women and others, dismissive of other's experiences which are counter to your theories of people, bitter and very can't do attitude in the realm of social interaction.  I believe a lot of us are trying to tell you it is not because of your looks (you appear to have above average looks in your picture) or money.   

Sure getting the 6 pack abs like in your profile experiment seems to work...so you can go that way...it takes work and time, no quick fix.  You seem like the kind of guy that can do that, so why not.  Sure getting very wealthy can at least attract gold diggers, is that a path you can make happen?

In the end you don't need to learn to be sociable to all people just the women you are attracted to.  

It's also not mutually exclusive navigating a board room or a bar.  I do think a bar is the last place to try to meet someone.  I'm going to guess for the bars you are thinking of that is a scene rife with looks and small talk skills being everything.

Taken this statement out of order as you do seem to realize that genuinely nice guys can punch above their weight.

Usually it is all about who you are.  Positive energy is everything.  In that sense, yes the kind of energy you give is important.  Material things, those are usually only needed to compensate for something lacking in the who you are department. 

Sure, I agree it is key but I have zero of any of those qualities, absolutely none at all. So I am forced to try and work with what I have which objectively is very little. I wouldn't exactly call the dates I have any sort of experience really, most end up the coffee shop equivalent to a business meeting for the simple fact there is seldom enough conversation or common ground to actually connect. I did have two good dates last year but nothing came from either of them, both had good potential but again it just didn't work, despite the fact I can say I actually enjoyed spending time with them. Both were different sorts of people but I like both. Thinking back before this I had two other nice dates, though the one was less of a date but it was a good way to spend a day.

Point being I am looking for something difficult to find but not impossible.

I didn't become judgemental over night, it took years of rejection, observation and generally being treated with disdain. My experiences cannot be written off as incorrect because others haven't experienced the same. Take you for example, your various experiences are relevant, no less than mine, granted yours are more positive but I am not going to sugar coat experiences which were poor for the sake of doing so.

Ok you say its not about looks, then tell me why I get no attractive matches on Tinder? If I was getting attractive matches then sure I might agree with you but I don't. Nobody can tell me where I can meet someone.....please don't tell me the cliché book shop.

I'd like to think guys can punch above their weight but this is more because I always back the under-dog and because I am not short of grit and never give up attitude when it comes to things I feel I can accomplish BUT I need to see I can make progress toward those goals. With dating I never ever see any progress, is been mostly the same for years. Do I want all the nice things that apparently come with dating, do I think I could be a good partner, yes to both but what I WONT do is date someone because they simply like me. I HAVE to like them.

One thing I do have is effectively two "sisters", I say that because my relationship with them is akin to that, both have tried to help in various ways and both make me feel a little less lonely in the world. I guess other problem I have is I vastly over estimate the about of "leeway" ladies actually give and why would they, take me on as a "project" or find a guy who is the finished article, I cant see any reason anyone would choose the former. Again just being objective.

I met a yoga instructor last year and basically spent about 5 days with her, lunches, dinners, meeting up, chatting,  yoga, even went to a party with her. I enjoyed spending time with her and the whole experience was new to me. She didn't judge me, allowed me to be me without me trying to be someone else. Sure, she had no interest in me but it was still nice.

Lastly, its easier to be positive about something positive.

[Azincourt]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure, it would help there was a generic "better" but that doesn't seem to be the case. I have spent years trying to tailor myself to the wants of ladies and where did that get me exactly.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

 

Part of the reason I go out is to observe and see what I do so wrong that others do so right and then try work on those things, which is where the whole looks thing comes from, honestly it might not be easy for good looking guys but I do believe it easier, likewise for 'easy going" guys who have "charm". Objectively I look at that and then equate what I have in terms of qualities and truthfully I don't have much of those things. I enjoy challenges, I do a very challenging job which in a way fortunately consumes a lot a time and fortunately puts me around dynamic interesting and motivated people.

Your last comment is very relevant and very true, however this is basically impossible to find, I did find someone last year and she and I talked through it I could take the heavy criticism I received on the chin but ultimately in her opinion there was nothing to really work with, which hurt a bit but my life is all about being kicked around and getting up so the feeling soon passed. In some respects she was most of what I liked and I would have liked an opportunity to try with her, she however at 37 wanted someone more long term than the short term gamble which I apparently am.

 

 

[Azincourt]

  

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure, it would help there was a generic "better" but that doesn't seem to be the case. I have spent years trying to tailor myself to the wants of ladies and where did that get me exactly.

The standards attractive women have are much lower than what many people seem to believe they to be. 

All it takes is for a man to be healthy,(proper weight for his height/low body fat) to not have a deformed face(and there are plenty of men like that who date) and for the guy to not be like only 5 feet tall, and even then I met guys in college who were 5'0'' overweight, had a redneck face, worked as a part-time chicken restaurant, and their girlfriends were fit, and attractive.

Lots of attractive, tall women date men shorter than them, and they aren't expecting you to be a multi-millionaire or to be a doctor. The standards of average women are probably even lower, so.

So, the problem here is your obsession with women who are very attractive, and your extremely low self-esteem and self-worth. You can't get women to pay you attention when you hate yourself. Therapy, psychologists, medication, physical excercise will help you with that tremendously

1- head out to your doctor and ask him to test you out, to see if your lungs and heart and such are healthy enough to engage in vigorous physical exercise.

2 - hit the gym hard.

- Hire a personal trainer and tell him you want Brad Pitt's body in fight club. Pitt's a pretty skinny guy in that movie, but most women think he looked his hottest in Fight Club.

Quote

Brad Pitt weighed about 155lbs′(he's 6 ft. tall) in Fight Club and was at 5-6% body fat – pretty “small” but you can see how shedding fat will actually make you appear bigger and give you a much more impressive physique! Pitt's workout was based on a training routine targeting only one muscle group per day.

3 - if your teeth aren't up to Hollywood standards, save up money and get cosmetic dentistry.

4 - If you are balding or bald - save up money to get a hair transplant. Cristiano Ronaldo opened a hair transplant clinic in London and from I hear from my dad's friends, the doctors there seem to know their stuff.

5- start taking care of your skin. Avoid the sun as much as possible. Wear a baseball hat at all times, lather your face 3 times a day with the strongest sun screen cream you can find.

6 - Not sure about the women you meet, but most women here don't like body hair in a man or facial hair, so either get a  full-body brazilian wax, or shave at home.

7 - invest in high quality, handsome clothes, shoes, hair products, learn foreign languages. French is women's favorite language. Even when they don't speak it they love listening to it. Spanish is great too, but I'd learn Italian if I was you.

8- if you have a weak jawline - save up the money for a jawline surgery.

9 - if you have a weak/small/recessive chin, you can also save up money for that.

10 - take up hobbies where there's a lot of women, but don't go hitting on them. Let things happen naturally.

Quote

 

 

Part of the reason I go out is to observe and see what I do so wrong that others do so right and then try work on those things, which is where the whole looks thing comes from, honestly it might not be easy for good looking guys but I do believe it easier,

Nah. That's not how it works, my man.

There are tons of tall, handsome, cute, muscular, gorgeous men going about. Women are so used to a high level of aesthetics in a man, that what they seek for in a man is a strong, funny, well-developed personality.  Like, high self-esteem even when there's no reason for it.  I wanted to sleep with this 6'6'' barefoot woman who'd go up to 7'1'' when she had high heels on 😍

She said that if I  was 6 inches taller things might have been different. That didn't keep me from wanting to sleep with other gorgeously tall women. Just shrug rejection off, man. Every man gets rejected often. Even Brad Pitt does. Heck, I get rejected every time a woman doesn't approach me, but I don't let that eat up my insides.

There's also plenty of very attractive men who get rejected because they are jerks or because they lack social skills and don't know how to react when women throw themselves at them.

Quote

 

likewise for 'easy going" guys who have "charm".

You know easy going guys have charm because they worked at it? My mom says that even when I was a baby and she'd take me to the beach, that as soon as she'd take her eyes off me,  she'd always find me sitting on the lap of some cute girl 🤣 .

I've been putting myself out there for a very long time.  And I've exposed myself to many different cultures. One thing that most women from every culture seems to share amongst themselves when it comes to what they find attractive about a man, is a guy who isn't afraid of showing that he's interested, but isn't a douche or  a creep about it, and has an easy-way- vibe about him that says he's more than fine with it if he gets rejected.

Develop that.  Hire a dating coach and tell him what you feel is causing you to fall short with women.

Quote

 

 

Objectively I look at that and then equate what I have in terms of qualities and truthfully I don't have much of those things. I enjoy challenges, I do a very challenging job which in a way fortunately consumes a lot a time and fortunately puts me around dynamic interesting and motivated people.

Then work on developing those qualities. No one is born with the skills to play for Manchester United. They have to work on them over a period of dozens of years first.

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Azincourt

[elaine567]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:43 PM, ZA Dater said:

I can chase this pretty marketing lady but there is no real compatibility at all

As a marketing woman, she is likely naturally engaging, she will be able to speak to anyone, she will have an interesting line in conversation and she will use her feminine wiles to charm everyone, as everyone is a potential client...
You noticed her as she is attractive and she probably paid some attention to you.
I think the best you can do is to take it slow and suss out the lie of the land.
Hope she likes you and you can then ask her to spend some time with you.
Be very aware of her job though.
Is she spending time with you as a client, a work colleague or as an actual potential romantic partner?

[ZA Dater]

Ok a good example of what I am talking about is a match I got on Tinder today, someone fairly attractive.

 

Me: Hi so and so how's your day been? Pizza or Pasta (Yesterday)

Her: Oysters

Me: Interesting choice, cant say I have ever tried them

Me: Hope you your day is going well, mine has been busy yet fun at the same time.

Her: Thanks

Her: Where are you from originally?

Me: Born and raised in Cape Town and you? Where in the city do you call home?

Her: Some suburb

Her: What do you work

Me: I work near the CBD, what you up to this evening

Her: Do you have interesting offers.

Me: Hmm maybe, what do you like doing?

Honestly am I the only one who finds this difficult going?

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, Azincourt said:

  So, the problem here is your obsession with women who are very attractive, and your extremely low self-esteem and self-worth. You can't get women to pay you attention when you hate yourself. Therapy, psychologists, medication, physical excercise will help you with that tremendously

1- head out to your doctor and ask him to test you out, to see if your lungs and heart and such are healthy enough to engage in vigorous physical exercise.

2 - hit the gym hard.

- Hire a personal trainer and tell him you want Brad Pitt's body in fight club. Pitt's a pretty skinny guy in that movie, but most women think he looked his hottest in Fight Club.

3 - if your teeth aren't up to Hollywood standards, save up money and get cosmetic dentistry.

4 - If you are balding or bald - save up money to get a hair transplant. Cristiano Ronaldo opened a hair transplant clinic in London and from I hear from my dad's friends, the doctors there seem to know their stuff.

5- start taking care of your skin. Avoid the sun as much as possible. Wear a baseball hat at all times, lather your face 3 times a day with the strongest sun screen cream you can find.

6 - Not sure about the women you meet, but most women here don't like body hair in a man or facial hair, so either get a  full-body brazilian wax, or shave at home.

7 - invest in high quality, handsome clothes, shoes, hair products, learn foreign languages. French is women's favorite language. Even when they don't speak it they love listening to it. Spanish is great too, but I'd learn Italian if I was you.

8- if you have a weak jawline - save up the money for a jawline surgery.

9 - if you have a weak/small/recessive chin, you can also save up money for that.

10 - take up hobbies where there's a lot of women, but don't go hitting on them. Let things happen naturally.

Thanks for this. I am quite fit, I wear clothes I like and do hobbies I enjoy, not about to take up hobbies I don't have time for in the hope I may meet some person, to me that's impossible because when you don't enjoy something people sense that very quickly so it would just be a waste of time to do that.

I'd rather thrown money away than hire a snake oil salesman known as a dating coach. I have read books, blogs and the level of inconsistency is just amazing, truly its an unregulated "profession" with the view of dispatching as much inconsistent advice as possible.

I put myself onto every dating app I could find and the result have been the same, make over, same result, make over, same result. I don't believe cold approaches can ever work, certainly not for me with my lack of charm, sure I have tried it from time to time but guess none were single so I don't have much reason to try again, its easier to walk away and get on with life.

Sure, people get rejected but how many never find any success at all? Put yourself in those shoes for a minute. Having said that I refuse to let women dictate my self worth, I who I am  and frankly if they don't like that, then so be it, I am sick and tired of attempting to bend over backwards to try and be what they apparently seem to want, all the while none make any effort with me and NO I don't mean putting some shoes or a dress. I have been on some shocking dates, I make sure I look presentable and good and they rock up looking like they climbed out of the laundry basket, I'd say this describes 75% of the dates I have been on.

I get it one needs skills and one needs to learn but I think some of us are simply beyond that, I read all of the above and reading it doesn't really motivate me to do much of it, I work out because I enjoy it not for any other reason. I look at my time and then I look at this and honestly I'd rather spend it focussing on work, at least there, there is some form of reward and I mostly enjoy the challenge it presents. Versus dating, where I have put in the effort and the results never ever change and I feel bad about it because at 36, its becoming harder and harder to explain a lack of gf. I use work as an excuse but that doesn't always work nor is it convenient when I got to function after function on my own. In order to try and hide this have a friend to assist me at the events I plan and she sort of becomes my +1 (she has a bf) so I don't stand out too much (there are no single people at these events).

I don't hate myself I am just extremely realistic when it comes to dating and this is based on my past experience, few of which are anything to write home about. The reality is there are millions of me walking around, there isn't a fairy tale for every guy. Some are luckier than others, that's just life, some are more attractive than others, that's life.

So yes I look at this 5.9 blond, slim, athletic high flying marketing exec and I pretty much know I have zero chance. There is nothing OBJECTIVE that suggests I will ever get anywhere. You would, I simply wouldn't even get a look, that's just how it is. I can be as nice as I want, display great manners, try and project confidence but the charade can only go for so long and most see through it well before it ends. Ultimately they don't want friends, they want boyfriends and honestly I think I'd probably be a better friend, the qualities I have are better suited to that it would seem.

 

[SumGuy]

53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok a good example of what I am talking about is a match I got on Tinder today, someone fairly attractive.

a critique...kind of what I'm talking about

Me: Hi so and so how's your day been? Pizza or Pasta (Yesterday)

OK a pretty pedestrian question followed by a rather quirky one Pizza or Pasta (quirky is good in my book for the women I like)

Her: Oysters

A nice playful response...yum oysters

Me: Interesting choice, cant say I have ever tried them

Here is where you first may have dropped the ball.   You are in your 30s and live on a coast and have never tried oysters?  There are so many options to go off on here, you could say you never had tried them but always wanted to.  Ask her where she finds the best ones...etc.    This is a perfect segue to ask her out get on the track t ask her out.  This is Tinder after all nor e-Harmony.

One could also make the reference, "Some say they like clams, others oysters...don't worry I'm not one that likes both ;)"  It's more of swinging for the fences, or a good way if filtering for those who know movies and it is flirty if she gets it.

Me: Hope you your day is going well, mine has been busy yet fun at the same time.

Nice wish, but then a declarative statement that seems to be fishing for her to ask you what is so fun.

Her: Thanks

Her: Where are you from originally?

Me: Born and raised in Cape Town and you? Where in the city do you call home?

Good answer.  Bad, very bad question, yellow flag territory.   She doesn't know you so no way she wants to give you information on where she lives.

Notice she asked where you are from originally, that is a safe question that you can ask.

Her: Some suburb

You asked a yellow flag question so you are going to get a vague answer.

Her: What do you work

Me: I work near the CBD, what you up to this evening

Awkward and kind of passive, not sure you even answered her question, but not inherently bad if ready to follow up.

Her: Do you have interesting offers.

OK she is giving you a chance, kind of playful, Lucky you after avoiding her work question.  

Me: Hmm maybe, what do you like doing?

Fail.  Look you asked if she was free, she countered with what are you suggesting, then you have no ideas...which makes you appear clueless and maybe a bit dull.   Don't message and ask what someone is doing if you are not ready to make a suggestion for going out.   The simplest thing is to meet for a drink, or it being a weekend you can say you wanted to try some restaurant, or had a craving to got to one of your favorites, or you could even open it up a bit that you never had oysters and intrigued, maybe she could show you a place...so many possibilities..so many ways to say things....one can even do a little humor about not having interesting offers or having many, you'll tell the prime minister your'e busy because your interested in meeting her.

 

Honestly am I the only one who finds this difficult going?

I don't think you are the only one.  I don't find it difficult even though I am an introvert, it can be "work" if in a real life setting if I am not in the mood to banter.

It does take a bit of not thinking in literal terms, more making associations, and being able to ask good questions if that is the route.  A "good" question in my opinion gets indirectly to a trait you value, or shows your interest in them, or gives you something to talk more about in meeting.

Edited March 20, 2020 by SumGuy

[SumGuy]

Follow-up thoughts.

IIRC correctly you don't do banter.  Rather you prefer serious.  Tinder IMHO has got to be one of the worse sites for serious, what about the LTR focused pay sites? 

[ZA Dater]

43 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Follow-up thoughts.

IIRC correctly you don't do banter.  Rather you prefer serious.  Tinder IMHO has got to be one of the worse sites for serious, what about the LTR focused pay sites? 

I am all of them

Another example, not really interested in her, she is 39.

This is Bumble so they have to msg first

Her: What's the first thing you notice about someone?

Me: Hmm generally the way they speak.

Her: Interesting, so what can you deduce about the way they speak

Me: Whether I like the sound of their voice, what's the first thing you notice?

Her: Eyes, hands, legs, hair

Her: Where do you stay.

Me: Southern Suburbs, I do look at physical things too.

Her:  South Subs too, where

Me: I am in ........

Her: Oh cool I am close by in ......

Her: How much care a man takes and what his hands would feel like.

Again to me this is about as interesting as watching paint dry. Zero intellectual connection at all. This is why my interest does not last very long and why I find dating so tedious and chore like.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

a critique...kind of what I'm talking about

Me: Hi so and so how's your day been? Pizza or Pasta (Yesterday)

OK a pretty pedestrian question followed by a rather quirky one Pizza or Pasta (quirky is good in my book for the women I like)

Her: Oysters

A nice playful response...yum oysters

Me: Interesting choice, cant say I have ever tried them

Here is where you first may have dropped the ball.   You are in your 30s and live on a coast and have never tried oysters?  There are so many options to go off on here, you could say you never had tried them but always wanted to.  Ask her where she finds the best ones...etc.    This is a perfect segue to ask her out get on the track t ask her out.  This is Tinder after all nor e-Harmony.

One could also make the reference, "Some say they like clams, others oysters...don't worry I'm not one that likes both ;)"  It's more of swinging for the fences, or a good way if filtering for those who know movies and it is flirty if she gets it.

Me: Hope you your day is going well, mine has been busy yet fun at the same time.

Nice wish, but then a declarative statement that seems to be fishing for her to ask you what is so fun.

Her: Thanks

Her: Where are you from originally?

Me: Born and raised in Cape Town and you? Where in the city do you call home?

Good answer.  Bad, very bad question, yellow flag territory.   She doesn't know you so no way she wants to give you information on where she lives.

Notice she asked where you are from originally, that is a safe question that you can ask.

Her: Some suburb

You asked a yellow flag question so you are going to get a vague answer.

Her: What do you work

Me: I work near the CBD, what you up to this evening

Awkward and kind of passive, not sure you even answered her question, but not inherently bad if ready to follow up.

Her: Do you have interesting offers.

OK she is giving you a chance, kind of playful, Lucky you after avoiding her work question.  

Me: Hmm maybe, what do you like doing?

Fail.  Look you asked if she was free, she countered with what are you suggesting, then you have no ideas...which makes you appear clueless and maybe a bit dull.   Don't message and ask what someone is doing if you are not ready to make a suggestion for going out.   The simplest thing is to meet for a drink, or it being a weekend you can say you wanted to try some restaurant, or had a craving to got to one of your favorites, or you could even open it up a bit that you never had oysters and intrigued, maybe she could show you a place...so many possibilities..so many ways to say things....one can even do a little humor about not having interesting offers or having many, you'll tell the prime minister your'e busy because your interested in meeting her.

 

Honestly am I the only one who finds this difficult going?

I don't think you are the only one.  I don't find it difficult even though I am an introvert, it can be "work" if in a real life setting if I am not in the mood to banter.

It does take a bit of not thinking in literal terms, more making associations, and being able to ask good questions if that is the route.  A "good" question in my opinion gets indirectly to a trait you value, or shows your interest in them, or gives you something to talk more about in meeting.

I don't like sea food so I am not going to pretend that I do or lie that I do and its better to just move on that answer in the negative, well in my opinion anyway. She did give me an exact area where she lived so it wasn't vague.

No I have had the famous "interesting offers" before and its code for "take me out spend loads of cash and I will reject you", not going there again, especially as she did nothing to really make me want to take her out either. As can be seen I don't really do humour either. Everything about me is basically tailored to be transactional, that way I invest nothing and loose nothing either when I am inevitably rejected, every so often I'd be intrigued enough to offer up more about myself but there is no reason to here when it would appear she is simply looking for a good time and probably cross shopping me against her other matches to see who can offer the best good time.

 

[SumGuy]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Again to me this is about as interesting as watching paint dry. Zero intellectual connection at all. This is why my interest does not last very long and why I find dating so tedious and chore like.

I get it.  That ice breaking stuff can be tedious but the idea is to get through it, to get to meet someone, to get to a more real conversation.  At least my idea is to do that.

If you want to get it on to an intellectual topic you generally need to take the lead on that.   It can be a good filter in my experience.  I ask about what people read as one way.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

I get it.  That ice breaking stuff can be tedious but the idea is to get through it, to get to meet someone, to get to a more real conversation.  At least my idea is to do that.

If you want to get it on to an intellectual topic you generally need to take the lead on that.   It can be a good filter in my experience.  I ask about what people read as one way.

Sure and when I say I just finished a biography  on FDR Roosevelt then what? I am usually met with apathy. I had an amazing intellectual date but never saw the person again so clearly this route doesn't work either, frankly I had spent years trying to find someone like her and even then it doesn't work. I don't see much point in breaking the ice when I can see I am not really interested from the beginning, in the past I would be so desperate I would continue with these waste of time conversations but time has told me there is no point to them, at no point am I going to be more interested than I was after the first 15 minutes.

I am suppose to sell my virtues I expect them to do the same.

[SumGuy]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't like sea food so I am not going to pretend that I do or lie that I do and its better to just move on that answer in the negative, well in my opinion anyway. She did give me an exact area where she lived so it wasn't vague.

Fair enough,

No I have had the famous "interesting offers" before and its code for "take me out spend loads of cash and I will reject you", not going there again, especially as she did nothing to really make me want to take her out either. As can be seen I don't really do humour either. Everything about me is basically tailored to be transactional, that way I invest nothing and loose nothing either when I am inevitably rejected, every so often I'd be intrigued enough to offer up more about myself but there is no reason to here when it would appear she is simply looking for a good time and probably cross shopping me against her other matches to see who can offer the best good time.

"interesting offers"...I've found to be code for ask me out and flirt with me...and the very opposite of rejection if one plays their cards right.

Hate to say it, she can't read your mind about what or what does not do it for you to take her out.  She gave you the opening  and hint to ask her out.  It really shouldn't be about taking her out so much as meeting her.  If you need to feel the potential for intellectual connection first before asking her out select profiles that suggest that and ask questions that will get to that.

Intellectual connection is paramount to me and I don't leave it to chance.

On the not really doing humor, I'm coming from a different world.  Humor is a big part of it for me, but I do do serious as well.

You can be serious without being transnational, there are serious minded women who don't like small talk, and prefer a more in depth and informed conversation.  Being a stoic kind of guy can work.  

[SumGuy]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure and when I say I just finished a biography  on FDR Roosevelt then what? I am usually met with apathy. 

I am suppose to sell my virtues I expect them to do the same.

On the first point.  Don't leave it to a declarative statement about what you read and expect them to ask all the questions.   You could also make an observation on it or ask them what they think about a topic brought up by it.   Also can ask what they have read then ask them about it.  I assume this is how you have intellectual conversations with male friends.

I don't think anyone needs to be selling themselves, you or her.   Rather, both are trying to connect and look for connection. 

[Sinful]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have spent years trying to tailor myself to the wants of ladies and where did that get me exactly. 

Your last comment is very relevant and very true, however this is basically impossible to find, I did find someone last year and she and I talked through it I could take the heavy criticism I received on the chin but ultimately in her opinion there was nothing to really work with, which hurt a bit but my life is all about being kicked around and getting up so the feeling soon passed. In some respects she was most of what I liked and I would have liked an opportunity to try with her, she however at 37 wanted someone more long term than the short term gamble which I apparently am.

 

You can't do it for them, then you're just faking it and you will eventually show to be phony. And you want the opinions of other guys. Don't get me wrong, women can provide valuable insight into some things but when it comes to how to pick them up you want to get with a male that has experience. As they say, if you want to know how to hunt deer, you don't go ask the deer, you ask the hunter. The deer knows how to be a deer. 

And I read your dialog and honestly the convo just comes off as bland and boring. In the second convo the girl even started in giving you the opportunity to drive the convo to something more interesting and sensual and you still steered away from it.