Now what?

[Yesitswrong]

I've been reading these forums a lot for several months hoping that somebody's story could help me. But just recently, everything has changed. 
 

backstory: been "dating" a married guy for about a couple years, off and on. Even when we were off, we were "friends". Basically, no physical stuff but our emotional relationship continued. Eventually we'd fall right back in to a full blown affair. Most of our breaks were requested from him, usually from a fight or incessant arguing about the same things: "when are you leaving?" "I want to spend more time together". The usual needy, other woman stuff. However, a few weeks ago, he wanted to call things off for a completely different reason:  we were getting along TOO well. I was TOO good to him. He didn't deserve me, he didn't deserve the wife. He has inner struggles and demons that nobody can understand and he cannot continue to drag me down, that he can't live a double life anymore, that he feels guilty and worries about hurting me when he's with her and vice versa. He met with me in person and explained all of this as we cried and I struggled to understand why this was happening. Eventually I agreed it was the best thing and we continued our friendship. We would still talk every single day. He'd continue to meet with me or do small things for me to make sure I was ok. We'd continue to discuss a potential future if/when he's single. It was very confusing. I continued to ask why this breakup happened, I asked if the wife was pregnant, did she give him an ultimatum (full disclosure: our affair was outed about 2 years ago and we had a Few weeks of no contact), did he do something with someone else? So many questions bc it just felt...off. This happened about a month ago. 
 

Fast forward to about 1 week ago...he tells me he spent the entire weekend at a relative's home and would be going back that evening. I, being the lovely understanding, non selfish person that I am, immediately got annoyed and asked why he didn't reach out to me more if he was alone, why didn't he spend time with me, blah blah. I said it was weird to spend the night elsewhere without your spouse and almost jokingly asked if he was separated and not telling me. He didn't answer and instead said he had to go and would talk to me later. A few days later I asked if he was still at a relative's and he said no, he was home. However I noticed little things that led me to believe he was not at home and mentioned it to a friend. This friend knows people who know the wife and they are, in fact, separated. I don't know why and he is still acting like he's at home and nothing is happening. I eventually got tired of the lies and asked if there was anything he needed to tell me. He eventually got angry and said he didn't want to talk to me anymore and that he can't talk to me anymore. He hasn't blocked me but he's not wanting to speak to me. 
 

I am SO confused. I've asked friends and they tell me that I need to back off and give him space but that he'll be back. I have another friend who said I was being too controlling and slightly selfish to expect him to tell me when he's not ready. I don't know what to think. Has anyone been here before? Can anyone offer some insight? 
 

thank you in advance. 

[mark clemson]

Hard to say if he's not being (heh) honest with you about what's going on. A few theories for you below. I have NO idea how correct any of these may be:

 

- (Most likely IMO.) He didn't want to contact you because he's figuring out what to do about the separation. The wife may have finally decided she can't live with this or it may be for some other reason. He may be desperately trying to reconcile, or trying to figure out what to do with his life now, and you are a "distraction" from major decisions. Once he has an outcome (favorable or unfavorable) or has figured out what he "really" wants, he may be up for communicating again.

- There may be an OOW. Unlikely, but possible.

- With the prospect of being a newly divorced man looming, he may feel like playing the field, rather than "going with you".

- He may take you for granted a bit and be assuming you'll be there once he works out any/all of the above.

- He may feel that his EA with you "ruined his marriage" (hypocritical, I know) and feel like NC with you is his best hope for reconciliation.

- Or his wife may have made NC with you a condition for reconciliation. Perhaps she found out he was still in contact with you and it triggered the new separation.

 

You're unlikely to get answers to the above that you can have 100% confidence (or even 75% confidence) in anytime soon. Have you considered walking away? Blank slates have their appeal sometimes.

[stillafool]

More than likely he has another OW and they are living together or his wife finally kicked his sorry self to the curb and he's trying to crawl back.  His wife probably caught him with another woman.  Be glad it wasn't you this time.

Edited March 24, 2020 by stillafool

[Yesitswrong]

28 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Hard to say if he's not being (heh) honest with you about what's going on. A few theories for you below. I have NO idea how correct any of these may be:

 

- (Most likely IMO.) He didn't want to contact you because he's figuring out what to do about the separation. The wife may have finally decided she can't live with this or it may be for some other reason. He may be desperately trying to reconcile, or trying to figure out what to do with his life now, and you are a "distraction" from major decisions. Once he has an outcome (favorable or unfavorable) or has figured out what he "really" wants, he may be up for communicating again.

- There may be an OOW. Unlikely, but possible.

- With the prospect of being a newly divorced man looming, he may feel like playing the field, rather than "going with you".

- He may take you for granted a bit and be assuming you'll be there once he works out any/all of the above.

- He may feel that his EA with you "ruined his marriage" (hypocritical, I know) and feel like NC with you is his best hope for reconciliation.

- Or his wife may have made NC with you a condition for reconciliation. Perhaps she found out he was still in contact with you and it triggered the new separation.

 

You're unlikely to get answers to the above that you can have 100% confidence (or even 75% confidence) in anytime soon. Have you considered walking away? Blank slates have their appeal sometimes.

Yes I think your first point is most probable - i just wish he could've told me something was going on but needed space and no questions/pressure from me. I've never been married but I know that no matter what happens in a marriage, the end or potential end of that marriage is difficult and full of many different emotions. Not to defend him, but I'm almost positive he didn't want to tell me because he knows I would've pressed for why and what it would mean for us and a desire to spend more time together which I know is the last thing he needs/wants. 
 

I have considered walking away hundreds of times but I genuinely love him. We are best friends. We tell each other everything and we're always the first person we share news with (a reason he cited as being "messed up" since he's married but I'm his confidante). I don't want to lose him but it's out of my control. I hope he reaches out to me at some point. 

[Yesitswrong]

34 minutes ago, stillafool said:

More than likely he has another OW and they are living together or his wife finally kicked his sorry self to the curb and he's trying to crawl back.  His wife probably caught him with another woman.  Be glad it wasn't you this time.

I highly doubt he had another OW given how much time he spent with me either meeting up somewhere or talking on the phone. However I don't discount the possibility that he had a strictly physical encounter (or several) and maybe he got caught with that. He definitely isn't living with another woman - he's at a relative's home. 

[ExpatInItaly]

My sense is that something happened and she kicked him out, but he doesn't actually want to separate - so he's not telling you because he doesn't want to raise your hopes. He probably isn't ready to be apart from her and is trying to work it out. 

You say you don't want to lose him, but remember, he isn't yours to lose. I understand what you meant, but I get the impression from your post that you're starting to lose perspective on what your position actually is in his life. You're not this top priority, so unfortunately your wants and needs come after a lot of other things in his world. This is why he gets irritated when you start to want the same things a girlfriend would want (more time and attention) when that's not what you are to him. That's also why he doesn't really owe you an explanation of what's happening now. You're not his top confidante if he didn't share this fairly big news with you. I think this is the wake-up call that despite everything, you're not as important to him as you would like to be.

In any event, I would not reach out again. Whatever is happening is something he should really be dealing with on his own, so that you know whatever decision he makes was totally of his own volition. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Yesitswrong]

28 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

My sense is that something happened and she kicked him out, but he doesn't actually want to separate - so he's not telling you because he doesn't want to raise your hopes. He probably isn't ready to be apart from her and is trying to work it out. 

You say you don't want to lose him, but remember, he isn't yours to lose. I understand what you meant, but I get the impression from your post that you're starting to lose perspective on what your position actually is in his life. You're not this top priority, so unfortunately your wants and needs come after a lot of other things in his world. This is why he gets irritated when you start to want the same things a girlfriend would want (more time and attention) when that's not what you are to him. That's also why he doesn't really owe you an explanation of what's happening now. You're not his top confidante if he didn't share this fairly big news with you. I think this is the wake-up call that despite everything, you're not as important to him as you would like to be.

In any event, I would not reach out again. Whatever is happening is something he should really be dealing with on his own, so that you know whatever decision he makes was totally of his own volition. 

Yeah I agree with a lot of what you stated, particularly that this isn't what he wanted. Over the last several weeks he had been complaining and venting a lot more about his marriage so I assume things were really hitting the fan at that point. We were spending a lot more time together and hadn't fought or argued in months. Our communication drastically improved. I don't doubt the feelings he claims to have for me or my importance to him, but I do think the pote tail end of his marriage is scary, difficult and emotional. He was very honest that he enjoyed the companionship and the security and that he had love for her while admitting that the marriage/romantic aspect was over. I do feel like he blames me a bit and he has stated this all messes with his head and he's confused.

 

I guess only time will tell. Thank you for your response even if some parts were difficult to hear (read)

[preraph]

He doesn't want you to know, because getting his wife back is his priority, not keeping you happy.  He knows if you knew, you'd assume, Oh, good, he's free to be with me.  But he just wants his wife back.  

[stillafool]

54 minutes ago, Yesitswrong said:

I do feel like he blames me a bit and he has stated this all messes with his head and he's confused.

 

This is why most MM when they finally do decide or are forced into divorce by their wife end up dropping the OW and finding a new girlfriend.  The OW reminds them of the demise of their marriage and that he was at fault.  They usually want to make a fresh start with someone new who their family and children will more easily accept.  The MM who do go with the OW usually leave their marriage for her and end up marrying them soon after.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Yesitswrong said:

I highly doubt he had another OW given how much time he spent with me either meeting up somewhere or talking on the phone.

LOL, I bet his wife said the same thing at one time.

[MsJayne]

My take on this ......His wife kicked him out of the house because she's taken enough of his emotional/psychological abuse. He's hoping she'll take him back, (again!🙄), and that's why he didn't tell you she'd kicked him out - the last thing he wants is you complicating his mess even further by being happy that his marriage has broken down and imagining that he really does want to be with you and no one else. His "I just can't do this any more" story was just his way of getting rid of you because you weren't being a compliant mistress, (ie: a convenient doormat). Your friends are right, he will come back, as soon as he's confident that you've learned your lesson and won't start being all demanding and expecting him to respect you enough to stop the endless stream of BS he's created. 

Get rid of this oxygen thief and find yourself someone worthy of your time and attention, not some lame jerk looking to drag you down to his level. Mature, intelligent people do not sneak around behind their spouses back, full stop. Affairs are always grotty little episodes, most often started by men just like the one you're describing.  If you 're a woman who hates other women so much that you're a willing party to the emotional abuse of them, go for it, but otherwise, think about what you're doing - and do as you would be done by. 

[ExpatInItaly]

What do you plan to do if his marriage is not in fact over, OP?

[Yesitswrong]

42 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What do you plan to do if his marriage is not in fact over, OP?

That would be way more than enough for me to cut things off with him completely. That's assuming that him lying to me and then getting angry/not speaking to me because I'm not stupid enough to believe this web of lies isn't already enough. 
If his claims of wanting us to be together or even that his marriage doesn't make him happy anymore (regardless of if he wants to be with me or not) were true, then he wouldn't be trying to get back into the marriage. So if he goes back, that's only definitive proof that he's pulled off a huge con with me. I'm getting angrier by the minute and I'm glad we aren't speaking right now bc I need this distance for clarity. 

[ExpatInItaly]

39 minutes ago, Yesitswrong said:

So if he goes back, that's only definitive proof that he's pulled off a huge con with me. I'm getting angrier by the minute and I'm glad we aren't speaking right now bc I need this distance for clarity. 

Yes, I agree that's best for you. 

One thing you do know for sure is that this man is more than capable of pulling off a huge con. He's been doing it with his wife the entire time he's been seeing you. I think he's likely been feeding you plenty of half-truths too, considering he didn't even tell you he's currently separated from her.  That anger you're experiencing now might just be the nudge you needed to really keep your distance from him. 

Had he previously told you he was going to leave her? Do they have children together?

Edited March 25, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Yesitswrong]

50 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes, I agree that's best for you. 

One thing you do know for sure is that this man is more than capable of pulling off a huge con. He's been doing it with his wife the entire time he's been seeing you. I think he's likely been feeding you plenty of half-truths too, considering he didn't even tell you he's currently separated from her.  That anger you're experiencing now might just be the nudge you needed to really keep your distance from him. 

Had he previously told you he was going to leave her? Do they have children together?

I'm sure it's going to sound ridiculous to the objective, reasonable person but it blows my mind to think that he has lied to me profusely. I am aware that by nature of this type of relationship, that a couple of lies or omissions are bound to occur. But I can't wrap my head around him consistently deceiving me.
I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt that he didn't tell me about the separation because he was unsure of what was going to happen or because he needed time for himself without me expecting more when he's not ready. But now I'm all over the place after reading some of the responses here. It would be the biggest shock to my reality to find out that everything was fake.
I never caught him in a lie, he would tell me straight up if he didn't want to discuss a particular thing, he'd detail what his plans were and check in with me consistently. I never had to wonder where he was or when we'd speak. Even when we were "off" he was still my friend. He was always there for me and did so much to make me happy whether it be outings with my friends or celebrating birthdays or giving me money even though I don't need money - he'd always say he just wants to do something for me since he can't be there. We both credit our friendship and closeness and ability to be completely ourselves as for why we lasted as long as we did. I'm a pretty intelligent person and if somebody were able to deceive me in this way then I would no longer even know who I am or trust anyone. 
But no he's never said he was going to separate and no they have no children. He's said he's thought about leaving because they fight a lot and have a lot of marital issues that he didn't fully discuss with me until the last couple of months when he opened up more. To me, he's said he's stayed married out of a sense of guilt and obligation. When the affair was discovered a few years back, the wife did ask me to leave him alone bc she wasn't leaving him and she wanted to work things out without my interference so to an extent, I do believe that there was some guilt bc he of course cares for her. He also has severe daddy issues after his father refused to acknowledge him as a child and even now as an adult. I'm not a therapist so who knows what's going on in his head...hopefully with time we all get clarity and can all be happy.

[elaine567]

21 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

Eventually I agreed it was the best thing and we continued our friendship.

This was your and his mistake.
You can't be "friends" with a guy who has just broken it off.
You will always want "more" as you care the most.
He probably realised that, but he chickened out of again putting you straight.
He agreed to the friendship but it felt off as he had already told you he was done.
Whether he was separated or not was then none of your business.
He had already broken up with you in his mind.
You refusing to believe it, was not his problem, he was already done .
You confront him, he gets angry and he shuts you down.

There is often an assumption that an affair is about love ever after, that there WILL be a happy ending.
But affairs are relationships like any other, some work some don't.
Historically this was one of these off and on relationships that was going nowhere.
Am I surprised he ended it? Not really.
He was luke warm else he would never have kept ending it.
When one meets the love of one's life one tends to want to hold the other close and never want to let them go.
You loved him and projected your feelings onto him.
My guess he liked the sex, the support, so he kept coming back, but in reality you were just not "enough", that is why he kept. breaking up with you.
Many men in affairs are not actually looking for a new wife, that is often not what it is all about...

[BaileyB]

21 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

I am SO confused. I've asked friends and they tell me that I need to back off and give him space and he will be back. I have another friend who said I was being too controlling and slightly selfish to expect him to tell me when he's not ready. 

Respectfully, you need to find some new friends. This is terrible advice. 

Your MM is doing what lots of men do when they separate/their marriage ends - keeping his options open. He may well be trying to get his wife back, or he may be looking forward to playing the field. You were a nice distraction during his marriage, but things have changed... if he wants his wife back, she is his number one priority right now. He is putting your firmly in your place, way, way, way down on his list of priorities. If he does actually want to play the field - he is now “available” to date and play the field in a way that he hasn’t been “available” for a long time - because most women would not consider him a viable partner when he was married and still living with another woman. Those who are wise would still not consider him a viable partner, given that recently separated men are dealing with a lot of issues related to the end of their marriage and making the transition to “single” life... ie. recently separated but still married men don’t make good boyfriends.

As to your friends who tell you to wait and not to be too demanding of your MM - if they were truly looking out for your best interest they would tell you to leave this man behind because you don’t want to be involved with such a fickle and untrustworthy partner. Goodness, if you were my friend I would be encouraging you to cross the street when you see this man coming... 

Edited March 25, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

13 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

This was your and his mistake.
You can't be "friends" with a guy who has just broken it off.

So true. People make this mistake all the time, in monogamous relationships and affairs. 
pin suggesting that you continue to be friends, you are both maintaining a connection to keep the other in your life - for when the time comes... He’s hoping you will accept whatever he decides to offer. You are hoping that he will someday decide he wants more, with you.
You can drag this on indefinitely, but really - are either of you getting your needs met? He is perhaps, more likely to get his needs met. You, not at all. Unrequited love is painful. 
So the question becomes, why drag it on at all? If he wanted to be with you, he would be with you. Particularly if there is a separation. 
I know, you feel like he is your best friend... But, friends don’t treat each other with such disrespect. This man has used you in a way that a true friend would not do. A true friend wants what’s best - for you. He is looking out for number one, as most people in affairs tend to do. As you are also doing, when you continue your contact with an unavailable man, perhaps even to his own detriment. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

12 hours ago, MsJayne said:

 Mature, intelligent people do not sneak around behind their spouses back, full stop. Affairs are always grotty little episodes, most often started by men just like the one you're describing.

False as stated, full stop. Sometimes they do, for a variety of reasons, as has been discussed in other threads. And there is no data on whether men or women typically start affairs, but personally I've encountered numerous married women who have at least seemed to be interested in "engaging" over the years.

This seems to me to be bashing APs. People may have their reasons for wanting to do that, but it doesn't make it valid. Lots of fun adjectives ("grotty") sprinkled in with the "help" OM/OWs get around here it would seem.

[Bittersweetie]

23 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

I, being the lovely understanding, non selfish person that I am, immediately got annoyed and asked why he didn't reach out to me more if he was alone, why didn't he spend time with me, blah blah. 

Gently, I would try to shift your focus on why you are so attached to someone who is not freely available. Why do you think that is okay? You degrade yourself in your own posts when describing your actions...why is that acceptable to you? Like you said, you have no control over him or his actions...but you do have control over yourself. What kind of person do you want to be? The kind that considers the above behaviors acceptable and okay? Or not? And you say you are best friends...but do best friends treat really each other this way? Or people who respect each other...is that how they talk to and treat each other?

I've been a WW and I understand it's a lot easier to focus on the AP and why he's doing what he's doing instead of focusing on oneself and one's own actions, because then you have to face yourself and your choices. But which do you think would be a healthier outlet for your mental energy in the long run?

Edited March 25, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[preraph]

Some men learn to lie early on just to get what they want, including sex.  It's like they think that's what women need to get them to be with them, and sometimes it is.  I just don't see what you see in a man like this.  But he's way more worried about losing his wife than about keeping you.

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

When the affair was discovered a few years back, the wife did ask me to leave him alone bc she wasn't leaving him and she wanted to work things out without my interference so to an extent,

Maybe this has happened again, and she told him to cut off all communication with you. 

[Yesitswrong]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Maybe this has happened again, and she told him to cut off all communication with you. 

I thought that for a second but he hasn't cut me off or blocked me or unfollowed the social media that he does follow me on or anything like that. I saw him just 3 days ago and had been seeing him regularly. We aren't talking right now but he's not cutting me off. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

I thought that for a second but he hasn't cut me off or blocked me or unfollowed the social media that he does follow me on or anything like that. I saw him just 3 days ago and had been seeing him regularly. We aren't talking right now but he's not cutting me off. 

Perhaps not yet, no. He's obviously pulled back for some reason, whether it was at her request or his own decision based on something else entirely. 

In any event, I don't think I would get your hopes up on this working out in your favour. Even if he and his wife do actually split up, and he wants to try with you, you would never be able to trust him. People who are just coming out of marriages are also rarely ready for a serious relationship, even if the marriage was already done in all but name. There just tends to be a lot of emotional business to untangle during big life transitions. 

You would be wise to start thinking about moving on without him. 

[Allupinnit]

15 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

I thought that for a second but he hasn't cut me off or blocked me or unfollowed the social media that he does follow me on or anything like that. I saw him just 3 days ago and had been seeing him regularly. We aren't talking right now but he's not cutting me off. 

This is the push-pull dynamic that makes affairs so addictive.  I fear that when he resurfaces you'll talk yourself back into the affair (like the last time he got caught with you).