should a guy express their feelings ?

[wtm78]

17 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

You guys are separated, so of course she doesn't want to be your emotional sounding board any more. You can't have it all - freedom *from* a person but the ability to go vent and have them pick you back up whenever you need it. Separation is just that, separation. You no longer owe one another anything except for the care and support of the kids if you have any.

the inability to communicate is one of the reason that led to the separation.. 😞

[CaliforniaGirl]

23 hours ago, wtm78 said:

the inability to communicate is one of the reason that led to the separation.. 😞

Okay, well, if you're *both* working on that, great. But if it's just you, and primarily in the form of you wanting the spouse you're separated from to listen to your gripes, it's not going to work. She'll just get more resentful and less willing to listen. Aren't there other ways of you guys working on your communication than you venting?

[wtm78]

On 4/24/2020 at 10:41 AM, CaliforniaGirl said:

Okay, well, if you're *both* working on that, great. But if it's just you, and primarily in the form of you wanting the spouse you're separated from to listen to your gripes, it's not going to work. She'll just get more resentful and less willing to listen. Aren't there other ways of you guys working on your communication than you venting?

i think you got me terribly wrong. 1 i was not venting... 

usually there is a problem when i voice out, the problem is something that affects me. for example, used sanitary pad in the middle of the kitchen floor, and i can smell it. or oreo wrappers on my office desk with a trail of ants on my desk. 

and by voicing this out, instead of looking at the facts and say yeah she did it, its was turned around somehow and she became the victim. and accuse me that i was accusing her and criticizing her. then the crying comes, then shouting me, then say how useless she is and how i do not like her as a person... 

 

[basil67]

You've given two good examples there.   The first one is absolutely worth voicing.  The second is pretty minor and of the type which is worth sucking up knowing that you're not perfect either.   It's important to not sweat the small stuff.

[wtm78]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

You've given two good examples there.   The first one is absolutely worth voicing.  The second is pretty minor and of the type which is worth sucking up knowing that you're not perfect either.   It's important to not sweat the small stuff.

 

how about maggots?? are they minor or worth voicing?

[basil67]

If we find maggots, whoever is available will pitch in and and give the pantry a good clean up together.   It's certainly not something someone would raise as a problem for another to fix. 

[wtm78]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

If we find maggots, whoever is available will pitch in and and give the pantry a good clean up together.   It's certainly not something someone would raise as a problem for another to fix. 

i would disagree... i have went through that route of cleaning it up again and again.. helping her solve the mess she created doesnt give her the opportunity to learn from it... 

[basil67]

Pantry maggots can arrive without anyone having done anything wrong.   Sometimes the larvae comes in the bag from the store and then it all gets out of control.  

[basil67]

Was your wife good at keeping house when you married her?  

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, wtm78 said:

i would disagree... i have went through that route of cleaning it up again and again.. helping her solve the mess she created doesnt give her the opportunity to learn from it... 

If you are now separated why does this even matter?

[wtm78]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Was your wife good at keeping house when you married her?  

hmm... she was living with her hoarder grandma... and i was given the impression that she does the chores and is taking care of her 94yo grandma then.. 

before we got the house, i actually told her that cleanliness and tidiness is a great deal for me, and i wanted to talk things through to make sure that it will not be a big problem living together. so she says she is actually a very neat person and she is clean and she promised she will be that way when we have our own place... of course i took her words a pinch of salt... during house hunt, i wanted a small place, because if she does not clean, it is still manageable for me.. and i made it very clear to her, i do not enjoy cleaning.. i wanted a 700sqft or less apartment.. but she wanted 1200sqft and above.... in the end we compromised and agrees to look for something 900-1000sqft.... and throughout the search, we viewed at least 120units.. and we cant agree on a unit we both like... and throughout the house hunt, she kept showing me units above 1200sqft and say, we should view this... even though i kept reminding her to focus on the parameters that we set... but of course, having viewed 120 units and being so worn out.. we went to take a look at a few units above 1200sqft and so she wanted them... and promised that she WILL do all the housework and PROMISE that she WILL keep the house CLEAN and NEAT. SHE PROMISED... so you guess what happened.. being an inexperience husband-to-be... i gave her what she wants hoping that she appreciates and a good start for the marriage... and even before we moved in, i ask her to make a chore list so we can split the chores... but NO... SHE INSIST SHE WILL DO EVERYTHING!!!  so of course she did not live up to her promised. and i am stuck with a house 2 times the size that i can handle cleaning which i tried to avoid... 

 

and frankly, all these are still not the main issue for me... i was tried reason with her and talk things through... i thought as long as we can talk things out calmly we can maybe settle our differences.... THE REAL ISSUE is... when i am trying to talk these things through, she gets very personal, and highly sensitive and highly emotional... 

when I'm upset with something (repeated) -> talk to her about it -> she goes crazy, defensive etc -> I feel unheard and frustrated -> wait for her to calm down -> talk to her again -> she continues to be defensive, not going to acknowledge my complain -> I get pissed -> she gets more defensive, insist i am criticising -> she cry, shutdown or ran home -> I get more pissed -> wait for her to calm down -> the cycle continues

over time, frustration builds up and turn into contempt. but i had been real and vulnerable in expressing my innermost needs and desires. i am met with so much resistance and feel unheard. sometimes feeling a sense of abandonment. even when i tell her in this manner, she would continue to insist i criticise her. I get no validation. 

long story short, while i am trying to work on identifying the deeper issues, she keeps looking on the surface and keep insisting that i criticized her (which i did not). so in her head she had this fragmented reality, that i criticized her, saying that she is not good enough, not accepting her as a person, kicked her out of the house, and told her in front of a third person (the counselor) that i wanted to divorce her.... - all these are not true... 

[spiderowl]

Unless you are expressing your feelings in an aggressive or criticising way, it is probably a question of the kind of personality you are dealing with. Something I have learned over the years is to avoid the kind of guy who does not listen or who is not caring by nature. People will often say they listen or care but in practice do not. 

The last guy I dated talked 90% of the time and then struggled to listen when I talked for the remaining 10%. I listened to his ideas, philosophies, dreams and plans, but he switched off pretty quickly if I brought up mine. This kind of thing is a deal-breaker for me. It look me a long time to realise though that people differ greatly in their ability to truly interact in a fair manner.

What is your wife’s reaction to you expressing your feelings, because therein lies a clue as to what she thinks is going on or if she cares?

It took me almost a lifetime to realise that someone chatting with me in a warm, friendly, interested manner does not mean they are capable of listening. The person has to be motivated and self-aware to truly share. 

Having said the above, if you are not upholding your end of the marriage in some way and she has become resentful, she may have got past the stage of wanting to listen. If that is the case, then the relationship is in trouble and marital therapy might help.

Edited May 3, 2020 by spiderowl

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Depends on the feelings. Depends on the mode of expression. Depends on the guy. Depends on the girl.

I don't think there is a conclusive answer that will fit all scenarios

 

[wtm78]

On 5/4/2020 at 12:57 AM, spiderowl said:

Unless you are expressing your feelings in an aggressive or criticising way, it is probably a question of the kind of personality you are dealing with. Something I have learned over the years is to avoid the kind of guy who does not listen or who is not caring by nature. People will often say they listen or care but in practice do not. 

The last guy I dated talked 90% of the time and then struggled to listen when I talked for the remaining 10%. I listened to his ideas, philosophies, dreams and plans, but he switched off pretty quickly if I brought up mine. This kind of thing is a deal-breaker for me. It look me a long time to realise though that people differ greatly in their ability to truly interact in a fair manner.

What is your wife’s reaction to you expressing your feelings, because therein lies a clue as to what she thinks is going on or if she cares?

It took me almost a lifetime to realise that someone chatting with me in a warm, friendly, interested manner does not mean they are capable of listening. The person has to be motivated and self-aware to truly share. 

Having said the above, if you are not upholding your end of the marriage in some way and she has become resentful, she may have got past the stage of wanting to listen. If that is the case, then the relationship is in trouble and marital therapy might help.

when I'm upset with something (usually its something repeated over and over again) -> i will talk to her about it -> she goes crazy, defensive etc -> I feel unheard and frustrated -> wait for her to calm down -> talk to her again -> she continues to be defensive, not going to acknowledge my complain -> I get pissed -> she gets more defensive, insist i am criticizing -> she cry, shutdown or ran home -> I get more pissed -> wait for her to calm down -> the cycle continues.

-> maybe she does not have the capacity to listen... maybe she does not know how to have an intimate relationship.. 

[basil67]

25 minutes ago, wtm78 said:

-> maybe she does not have the capacity to listen... maybe she does not know how to have an intimate relationship.. 

No, it's because she's mentally unstable.  Her hoarding alone is sign of mental illness, the self harm when you try and address it is further evidence of such.   One can't pluck a hoarder out of their environment and expect them to change their ways.  On the contrary, I would wager that removing her from the comfort hoarding gives her has pretty much induced a breakdown.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by basil67

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:36 PM, wtm78 said:

i think you got me terribly wrong. 1 i was not venting... 

usually there is a problem when i voice out, the problem is something that affects me. for example, used sanitary pad in the middle of the kitchen floor, and i can smell it. or oreo wrappers on my office desk with a trail of ants on my desk. 

and by voicing this out, instead of looking at the facts and say yeah she did it, its was turned around somehow and she became the victim. and accuse me that i was accusing her and criticizing her. then the crying comes, then shouting me, then say how useless she is and how i do not like her as a person... 

 

This is revolting. What's to talk through? Especially with the maxi pad thing? "You do not drop your pants in the middle of the kitchen, take off your maxi pad and put it on the floor. Full stop." And...I'm not understanding how this is happening at your house if you two are separated. I don't know your story. But I would not try to "talk through" teaching an adult that she doesn't change her menstrual products in the middle of the kitchen. Just, NO. Not in my house you don't. (If it is your house. If it's hers, let her bleed and maggot it right into the ground. This may be the grossest thing I've read on the internet all year, by the way.)

As to her crying, too bad. Her home living style is sickening. (Maggots? Maggots????) I wouldn't give two farts that someone cried because I told her not to drop her menstrual blood on the floor. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[spiderowl]

Well it's a good thing you two are separated.  Why are you trying to talk to her? Do you need to see her? Separation is a time when people are not together.  It sounds as if you are still trying to change her and she has already shown you she will not change - at least without some other kind of help.

[manfrombelow]

No, of course not.

The whole thing about the guy "expresses his feelings" BS is just an illusion created by Disney in order to sell books, movies, music, you name it.

You know what disgusts women the most? Weak, feminine and beta-like behaviours from men.

And "expressing feelings" is one of the worst. 

[BaileyB]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:07 AM, wtm78 said:

how can a guy express their feelings ? or should a guy  express their feelings ?

i notice that when i am trying to communicate to my wife if she has done something that hurt my feelings, she will very quickly cut me off before letting me complete what i am trying to say and tell me i should not feel hurt because xxxx.... 

is it a matter of guys should not express their feelings to their wives? just be a man and move on? 

She dismisses you feelings. That’s a terribly insensitive and hurtful thing to do. 

Of course, you should be able to express your feelings. She doesn’t have to agree with everything you say, but she certainly shouldn’t dismiss your feelings as important or wrong. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by BaileyB

[IndigoNight]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:16 PM, basil67 said:

If we find maggots, whoever is available will pitch in and and give the pantry a good clean up together.   It's certainly not something someone would raise as a problem for another to fix. 

Look for small moths in your house. The maggots are their larvae usually if they go after dried goods.. Freezing dried goods will help keep the larvae out at least until you get rid of them. Or, you could vacuum seal dried goods. 

[stillafool]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:50 PM, wtm78 said:

the inability to communicate is one of the reason that led to the separation.. 😞

So it's a good thing you guys are still separated because it isn't getting any better.  If communication is that difficult with her perhaps you should write it out and send it to her.  This way you won't be interrupted and can communicate your thoughts without getting frustrated.

[stillafool]

On 5/10/2020 at 6:29 AM, manfrombelow said:

And "expressing feelings" is one of the worst. 

Not for me.  Men are as human as women and we all need to express our feelings or they will bottle up and have a negative affect on us as well as others.  I don't consider a man who expresses his emotions as weak but healthy.

[stillafool]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:36 PM, wtm78 said:

usually there is a problem when i voice out, the problem is something that affects me. for example, used sanitary pad in the middle of the kitchen floor, and i can smell it. or oreo wrappers on my office desk with a trail of ants on my desk. 

This is completely unacceptable and would have sent me running and to never return.  This is just nasty and disgusting. 

Why does any of this matter to you if you are separated from her?  You don't have to put up with anything she does or says because you two are separated.

 

[amaysngrace]

My dogs have higher standards of living conditions than she does.

[salparadise]

On 5/4/2020 at 8:20 PM, wtm78 said:

-> maybe she does not have the capacity to listen... maybe she does not know how to have an intimate relationship.. 

Maybe she is personality disordered. The kind of pattern you describe looks identical what I've observed in BPD people. The reason for it is that anything you say is construed as criticism, or actually is, and they don't have the strength of identity to tolerate anything that sounds like criticism. It is important that men be able to say how they feel, otherwise you end up being a doormat. But there are effective ways to communicate, and there are dysfunctional ways. The simplest way is to say, "I feel... " but leave the word you out of it. And never start with, "You always... ", or "You never... " because that is not saying how you feel, it's an attack.

Based on what you've posted, and if you're indeed separated, I'd just quit dealing with her. Life is too short for that circular, defensive sh*t. She isn't hearing you because she's too busy thinking about how she's going to turn it around on you. Disengaging is the best way to deal with such a person.