Guilty

[Febbow]

My brother and I are incredibly close. He has also messed up in relationships. He is very similar to myself. I will guarantee he will never say anything. We are beyond best friends. Same for my mum . And my three other best friends. I choose wisely. And all of them have had relationship and childhood trauma so I have just as many 'secrets' on them. But I take your point. I won't be telling anyone else but I am entirely trusting they will never tell. 

What do I plan to work on in my marriage? Everything! Specifically getting closer mentally. Being more vulnerable and asking for help or closeness when I need it. Forging out much more time and priority to quality time. Putting my phone down when he walks into a room . Writing an appreciation journal. But more so , working on myself because this stems from me. And I will not repeat. No way.

And yes not ideal to base a marriage on a secret like this. I agree. I think the alternative of telling and blowing it up , leaving a horrendous scar is worse. I think I can forgive myself enough to sink this forever more and move forward. If anything remotely starts with someone new I will completely communicate it early on to my husband and shut it down entirely at the very start. 

 

My decisions may not imprese a lot of people but ultimately it's my unique path and I will have to live with the consequences. Although thank you for your opinions as always. 

[Ctr999]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:45 PM, Febbow said:

So,

I am hoping to get some advice or just share some information I've been bottling up. 

I have been married for 10 years. We have two kids (under 8 . I love my husband. He's a great dad and man. I don't find him attractive sexually. I haven't done for years. We got together because I chose with my head. He was a mutual friend and I knew a kind and gentle soul. 

Over the years he's been critical slightly. He's very intelligent. Loves the power of being smart. I feel sometimes he's found me embarrassing. In company he has rolled his eyes and pulled me up on immature comments or vulgar ones.  This has lead me to shut down a little. He always apologises. We always talk. We communicate really well. 

Since the kids were born I've slept with them. Extended breastfed. Made them my primary focus. He's been supportive. He is the breadwinner. He is kind and helps provided I make it clear what I need (mostly). We were intimate physically once a week. Mostly on my part through a sense of duty. I didn't really want to. Very much a martyrs. Will do things and put myself last and push help away. So I've become resentful at times when he didn't see that and insist on helping anyway (silly hey?). 

Last year , I met another man through a parent group . He's also married with similar aged kids. We had instant attraction (first time.ive felt that way since husband) and soon an emotional affair began. I did try to stop it on numerous occasions both early on and then last December properly. We met a few times. Held hands and kissed. No sex. He's very different to my husband. Incredibly artistic and creative. Much more emotionally supportive and wordy. Masculine and manually skilled. He is a stay at home dad. 

So I tried to shut it down. The guilt was horrendous. I knew all about brain chem and focused on the craziness of conceiving the practicalities of us really living together after breaking two families up. He says him and his wife haven't been properly together for three years despite living together. Who knows. I think I trust him. We have met in group situations a lot. I know his friends. He seems like a genuine person. And I think have fallen in love. He seems much better suited personality wise. We bounce off each other so beautifully. I truly can imagine in some other universe us being happy. He communicates well. He's thoughtful, respectful and listens always. He makes me laugh and me him way more so than my husband does or ever has. 

So we finished in December. I had the worst two months of silence ever. We didn't contact. And yet had all these mutual friends and events. He admits to feeling completely lost and depressed. I felt this way also despite trying to see it as a good action. 

We ended up talking again around my birthday early Feb. Then we said.we would go really slow. Stop the emotional affair. Keep each other in our lives but back off and slowly get to know each other over time . Of course this hasnt worked. Although no physical affair.. the tension is crazy when we meet in a group. And the emotional affair is again happening.

This virus has made.me realise how short life is. How the idea of me living in a pretty ok but sexually dead marriage is depressing both for myself and for my kkind lovely husband to have to endure. Even if I fake. I wish I hadn't met this other guy. I was happy enough I think. Although I think lonely. I've made so many mistakes in the marriage. So many. I take full responsibility. I have talked deeply to my husband , not mentioning this other man, about how the spark isn't there. We have identified the need to work a lot harder to try and fix old patterns. But he said he was happy and the spark has always been there for him. He is willing to go to counselling etc. He's been so patient while I mourned the 'break up' not.knowing what was up with me. Given me much time. Been kind and sweet. I have read and listened to spiritual stuff and to relationship gurus. I have strived to dislike the other man. To see his faults and focus on those and yet I've fallen deeper in love with him. The thought of being with him is so very exciting. I think we would be good..have the spark and crazy attraction and also the deeper ability to communicate and support each other emotionally. 

In an ideal world I'd love to date him. Watch him in many more realistic situations. See how he copes with stress and money etc. I can't though. 

So to wrap up.. 

What do I do. This guy wants to leave his wife and be with me. He's happy to take that slowly. 

I hate to think of breaking my husband's heart. It would kill him. I come from a family where my dad did similar to my mum. Horrendous. I love and care for him. 

This is what I think I should do:

Finish with the other guy (going to break both of our hearts again!! And we have so many shared friends and events , I won't be able to truly avoid him . Our kids are great friends 😭 our son's play as a group online most days.. ) 

Go to individual counseling and then couples counseling. Fake it til we make it or at least fully try.

Maybe look other guy up in future if and when I've gracefully and with nobility left my marriage. See if we can start from there. 

I just feel so sad. So stressed and guilty. And a little concerned i am making the wrong decision by walking away from a potentially pretty amazing match (or appears to be!)..

Thanks so much for reading. 

 

So you fool the guy into marrying you 

Waste his time 

You don't give your husband a favour by staying with him you just wasting his life with a woman that doesn't love him 

So go for a divorce so he can find a woman that love him

[GoldenR]

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My husband deserves way better. I'm going to try harder to forge an intimate connection and certainly never betray his trust again. Healthy strong boundaries. If our marriage fails to work out , then and only then can I walk away feeling happy and proud of my actions .

There you go...give yourself an out but he has no say, right?   That's fair, right?  You can leave him if things don't work but he has no say if he wants to be with a cheater.  Right, gotcha. 

 

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A part of me would like to confess and move forward but honestly if the shoe was on the other foot (and it may have been/will be ) I would prefer not to know

Justification for taking away his agency.  Big surprise there. 

 

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I feel like if only I put in a fraction of the energy that I did with the OM to this marriage and this amazing man (who I owe hugely).

Yeah...give him a fraction of what you gave the OM.  That's showing true love right there! 

 

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I am a good person.

Pretty sure your H would disagree if he knew who the real you. 

 

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I am fiercely stubborn when I set my mind on something. I have told my mum, three best friends,  and brother everything. They will hold me accountable .

Can they divorce you?   Can they demand transparency?   Can they set reconciliation conditions?   If not, no, they can't hold you accountable. 

Seriously, if you don't want to confess, then just divorce him. Let him find someone that will love him 100% through and through and not just stay with him bc he's the safe stable choice, all the while betraying him every time some anonymous good looking man pays attention to her. 

 

Taking away his right to decide if he wants to be married to an unfaithful wife literally makes you a bad person. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by GoldenR

[mark clemson]

Cue OP feeling "judged" and leaving (not that I'd blame her), ending the opportunities for further input on her situation...

[Febbow]

Forgive them for they don't know the whole story. Of course they don't . Not very constructive some of the tone but perhaps valid on some level. I am mature enough to realise that if I post on an open forum , I need to sort the wheat from the chaff. I'm not meaning that as an insult. There is wheat in every post. Just some you have to dig a little though the anger to get to the core concern or message. It's all good. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Febbow
To read more clearly

[BeProud]

When it comes to this marriage, it seems like the OP is the defender, prosecutor, judge, and jury. All because she claims to know what’s best for all. Her husband should not and will not receive the truth because it will do him harm.

Reminds me of that movie A Few Good Men with Jack Nicholson...”you can’t handle the truth!” You should just thank me!

What was the outcome of that high ranking officer again?

Edited April 3, 2020 by BeProud

[GoldenR]

Quote

Forgive them for they don't know the whole story.

Then please, enlighten us. 

[Buffer]

Hi Febbow,

Good luck with this, it will be a difficult journey going NC with the rug sweeping. Please take on board that if you BS finds out in 12 months or more from now due to a slip up say during you weekly duty sex, or he comes across a old text about OM. It will be the same as walking in on you two. The hurt will be just the same or worse. I say this as he may have tried to change for you yet he did this without all the facts. One BS found out his WW had a A seven years after the event. Ultimately they D. 
Good luck

Buffer

[Febbow]

https://www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/affairs/ask-ammanda-should-i-tell-my-partner-about-my-affair

I found this interesting. The message seemed to be very much similar to some of yours. At the same time it also states that only i can know what's best. I will certainly spend time considering the repercussions of trying to repair a marriage without a base of complete honesty. Thought provoking. Thank you. 

GoldenR .. I didn't mean to insult you in any form. I don't think I could enlighten you without a ten thousand page document stating the intricate complexities of my and my husband's past mistakes/personality profiles/situations/life circumstances.

Impossible to fully communicate my unique situation. And even if I did, not everyone will get it or agree with my decisions in life. That's ok. It's also ok for you guys to be angry and dismissive of me as a person. Perhaps I deserve it. Perhaps, your background is of a place of hurt and therefore you're closing your mind to the possibility that not everyone is the same.  And not ever WS will mess up again or is selfish/evil/manipulative in making a choice to not tell. Life really isn't that simple. And until you know me fully, I forgive that you feel it necessary to make those judgements. I appreciate them because on some level they challenge me to think further and more deeply. So thanks. 

Duty sex will not be happening. I'm not brushing this whole experience under the carpet so I can repeat the same old patterns. I'm using this to transform and grow both individually and as a couple. A horrible wake up call. I owe that to my husband (whether I tell or not) and I owe it to me. I can accept the anger on here because believe me I'm disgusted with my own behaviour. One year back I would have had a similar reaction.

However, I forgive myself for I was not awake! But I am now!! Very much so! And to repeat that behaviour ever again would be unforgiveable. So it won't be happening. 

 

 

[GoldenR]

No consequences = you knowing you got away with it. You won. 

And then a year,  2 years, 5 years down the line when you've stopped overcompensating on your marriage to make up for your betrayal and complacency has set in and OM #2 has started letting you know what he wants , and you think "why not? I got away with it before...".

You're setting yourself up to cheat again.  You think you won't, but you will.  Those that don't confess always cheat again.  Places like this have proven it.

I feel sorry for your H.  He has no idea his closest ally is actually his greatest enemy. 

[Febbow]

22 minutes ago, GoldenR said:

No consequences = you knowing you got away with it. You won. 

And then a year,  2 years, 5 years down the line when you've stopped overcompensating on your marriage to make up for your betrayal and complacency has set in and OM #2 has started letting you know what he wants , and you think "why not? I got away with it before...".

You're setting yourself up to cheat again.  You think you won't, but you will.  Those that don't confess always cheat again.  Places like this have proven it.

I feel sorry for your H.  He has no idea his closest ally is actually his greatest enemy. 

So everyone in the world is the same? This forum proves it? Ok. Sure. 

Simplistic. Wrong. 

I take your warnings. Some of your points are valid but I'm afraid I strongly disagree. Especially that I'm an enemy. I won't accept that. I refuse to. 

[GoldenR]

Is what you did to him something that someone that loved him would do to him? 

If your answer is yes, then you're 100% lost inside yourself and have absolutely no idea what love is.  

And answer this...if your H knew what you did, would he think you're still the one person that he can rely on for anything and everything? 

Edited April 4, 2020 by GoldenR

[Febbow]

GoldenR that's your opinion with your understanding of the snapshot of the situation I have communicated. What should I do for him if I 100% love him? First and foremost never repeat. Never. Stop all contact with OM. Make things better. Seek outside help. And maybe you're right.. be fully transparent. I'm thinking. I'm soul searching. I will continue to. The bits before.. I'm doing now and will forever more. That last part.. now in lockdown covid time with kids.. not the time to act. When we have the support of family and friends again and space..maybe. 

Can you love someone and royally mess up, at the same time while guaranting you've learned and transformed? I think so. Do some people repeat despite best intentions? Sure. Will I? No. I will have the respect to shut down the marriage with respect and honesty and control myself.  Do you have to confess all despite the consequences (to him more than me).. not sure. Damage limitation or deluded? I need to tease that out. I need time .  But you know I'm thinking deeply. And I appreciate your comments in challenging that. 

[GoldenR]

I think you have a chance at a good marriage. But not without confessing. Read threads where ppl confessed or were caught and still reconciled.  The work you do without him knowing about it is nothing compared to the work you would do if he did know about it.  

 

I get it about being locked in. But maybe, just maybe him having nowhere to go might work in your favor. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by GoldenR

[Febbow]

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Thanks . I appreciate your thoughts and advice. It helps to really challenge my thinking , so I can do the hard work of making the best possible decisions by researching and introspecting. You make some wise , if uncomfortable, thought provoking points. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Febbow
Trying to delete random blank quote. Fail.

[GoldenR]

Lol @ your edit sentence.  Ha!

[salparadise]

3 hours ago, GoldenR said:

I think you have a chance at a good marriage. But not without confessing.

🤣 Oh yea, just what the hubby needs to hear. I kept hoping my ex-w would reinvigorate our marriage by cutting off the sex and confessing that other guys made her wet. Golden, are you into the cuck fantasy, or a priest who missed his calling? 

Personally, I think she needs to crackup the bedroom activity beyond anything she or hubby ever imagined... that's how you save a marriage. 

[GoldenR]

Without accountability and honesty, the marriage is a sham and her husband is being played for a chump.  

 

[DKT3]

On 4/3/2020 at 6:03 AM, Febbow said:

My brother and I are incredibly close. He has also messed up in relationships. He is very similar to myself. I will guarantee he will never say anything. We are beyond best friends. Same for my mum . And my three other best friends. I choose wisely. And all of them have had relationship and childhood trauma so I have just as many 'secrets' on them. But I take your point. I won't be telling anyone else but I am entirely trusting they will never tell. 

What do I plan to work on in my marriage? Everything! Specifically getting closer mentally. Being more vulnerable and asking for help or closeness when I need it. Forging out much more time and priority to quality time. Putting my phone down when he walks into a room . Writing an appreciation journal. But more so , working on myself because this stems from me. And I will not repeat. No way.

And yes not ideal to base a marriage on a secret like this. I agree. I think the alternative of telling and blowing it up , leaving a horrendous scar is worse. I think I can forgive myself enough to sink this forever more and move forward. If anything remotely starts with someone new I will completely communicate it early on to my husband and shut it down entirely at the very start. 

 

My decisions may not imprese a lot of people but ultimately it's my unique path and I will have to live with the consequences. Although thank you for your opinions as always. 

Worse for who?

In many ways its akin to a cancer.  The cancer itself is bad but the treatment is worse. If successful the treatment was worth all the added pain and discomfort.  If you choose to not have the treatment death is almost certain.  That's what you're facing in your marriage. Go through treatment and take the chance of being stronger then before or die a slow but almost certain death.

[Bittersweetie]

I am proof of someone who royally messed up, and like to believe I have changed and transformed. But when I look back at myself when I was in your position, I see so many of the same thoughts: I will never do this again. I will never tell. I will become a better person. It will hurt him more than me. I will make it, and hold this inside for the rest of my life. In my case, I had a surprise d-day so all that went out the window.

I think as a WS we are used to telling ourselves things, creating the "right" narratives in our heads, in order to justify our actions. We did it while in the affair, and we do it now in order to justify our current choices (hiding, lying). It's like a coping skill we have gotten used to, and easily fall back into when faced with more difficult choices.

You don't have to make a decision right now, but I encourage you to truly think through what telling and not telling look like. Personally I don't think I'd be where I am without putting everything out there, no matter how difficult and painful it was. I had to be completely vulnerable. I had to be completely honest not only with myself but with the person I hurt the most. And it wasn't the telling that caused the hurt...it was my actions coming out to the light of day.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:12 PM, Buffer said:

Hi Febbow

I hope you are doing what you need to do for all three areas, children, him and you. 
Your husband is a duty to you, sex weekly, children used to keep husband at bay, breast feeding and sleeping in separate rooms when you can. Your EA friend hasn’t really been there for you on down days, children sick, family stresses etc. He only sees you in group settings when you dress to impress most likely for him. 
Please be truthful to hubby, he has the right to know that you just aren’t into him just the life he provides Stability, Home etc. You can sweep this EA under the rug pretend the duty sex is good, and leave him when the children finish school. Doesn’t he deserve to be in a loving relationship with some one who wants him for who he is? Please tell him of OM and the EA.

Buffer

 

This is sound advice. Just want to add...maybe she should try her new plan to develop more intimacy (strictly avoiding MM), but give herself a few months timeline to see if she successfully developed a more intimate bond with hubby while not entertaining anything more than a neighborly wave with MM. If successful, this would be best course for all involved.

Of course, before embarking, OP has to commit with resolve this is to be maintained for a lifetime, not just a few months...no MM's or OM's ever, ever again. Instead, redirect all attention as effort on husband until death. If not willing to make that commitment, tell husband what's happened and work towards amicable dissolution of marriage...or whatever agreement husband feels is fair. There will be massive fallout, so prepare to face the music with courage. 

 

OP, where is your husband in all of this? Is he ok with your unavailability? Have you considered IC to determine why you are sabotaging yourself and your family? Do you have fears of intimacy?  You might feel safer loving MM because his unavailability is a built-in barrier to bring too close. This could be something buried very deeply in your subconscious, but worth exploring. Consider also your romantic history prior to marriage, and your childhood relationships with family. Best wishes!

[mark clemson]

I've always thought it unwise to stick my neck out for someone else's ideals. For my own, yes, but not for someone else's.

I have always taken a very large grain of salt when I hear from those who are 100% convinced they are 100% right without actual evidence. Only THEY know what love actually is. Only they know what an actual good relationship is like. We have long term OWs who post on this board, and yet somehow every marriage is doomed without telling.

Do what you think is right. I would point out that none of the posters advising you here will be risking (further) harm to their own emotional state, or further risk to their own children's sense of stability and financial future, or risking having to take care of your children alone. Some are happy to put increasing that risk (beyond where it already is) for the sake of their own convictions.

YOU take the risk. If it pans out, great, they have the satisfaction of being right. Maybe you have an even more improved marriage (after all that difficult work mentioned) and maybe it would have been just as good without all that. Every couple's different, and they can't say with any real certainty that it would actually be improved.

And should things not pan out, oh well so sorry to hear, good luck with the lawyers. On to the next victim!  It's so wonderful always being right, tra-la-la...

[GoldenR]

You can always tell when an unremorseful wayward comments. 

[mark clemson]

Would you care to share my story with others, since you apparently know it?

[mark clemson]

Perhaps those who think OP should tell her husband could offer to make a legally binding agreement to pay her $250,000 should thing not work out and they divorce?

Or are you only willing to take outsize risks with other people's lives?