Guilty

[Febbow]

Mark, fear not. While I weigh up all of this information I will think critically and deeply about the ramifications. I will read other source of information and seek IC. I will not be rushing into any decision that's irreversible other than shutting down OM and committing fully to my marriage (how it should have always been!) I really don't think now is the time to talk to husband *if* I choose to at all. Covid lockdown and a lack of ability to take the time and set up space and support for him would be impossible. I think that decision would be unwise, unkind and badly timed. I will use this time to think and research /read widely from reliable and trustworthy source like relate for example . I also found this article interesting 

http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1820942,00.html

The relationship counsellor writes (her opinion.. one of many view points I am aware..)

"just don't tell. Because how does it make a person less guilty to inflict terrible pain on someone? Which is exactly what the confession does. It puts the other person in a permanent state of hurt and grief and loss of trust and an inability to feel safe, and it doesn't alleviate your guilt. Your relationship is dealt a potentially devastating blow. Honesty is great, but it's an abstract moral principle.... The higher moral principle, I believe, is not hurting people. And when you confess to having an affair, you are hurting someone more than you can ever imagine. So I tell people, if you care that much about honesty, figure out who you want to be with, commit to that relationship and devote the rest of your life to making it the most honest relationship you can. But confessing your affair is the kind of honesty that is unnecessarily destructive. There are two huge exceptions to not telling: if you're having an affair and you haven't practiced safe sex, even if it's only one time, you have to tell. Again, the moral principle is minimizing the hurt. But this time, the greatest risk of hurt comes from inflicting a sexually transmitted disease, and I've never seen a relationship recover from that. You also have to tell if discovery is imminent or likely. If you're going to be found out, then it's better for you to be the one to make the confession first."

While a relate article I read flips that and says if you don't tell , you will be 100 % building your marriage on cracked foundations and it'll be doomed anyway so telling is the only way. It also states how to do this and covid lockdown is not the time!

So yeh. Worry not Mark. I'm not that easily influenced or vulnerable. I will walk the path to this decision carefully and with extreme consideration of all the advice exploring the pitfalls. There is no getting away from the fact that I have brought this very much entirely on myself. Least I can now do is to truly work out what's best for everyone (with a large sway to my husband and kids). 

Yes to IC . Yes to intimacy issues. Yes to abandonment and anxiously attached personality. Addictive and self sabotaging behaviours. "Father issues" thrown in there as well. But ultimately none of these justify my awful choices and behaviours when it comes to damaging other people. Just repeating old cycles. Not ok. Other people face similar childhoods and grow to be wiser and act with way more integrity much sooner. I'm old enough to now sort my self out for real. This is the wake up call. I just hope it's not too late. 

 

[mark clemson]

Fair enough. FYI (in case it wasn't clear) I'm not "anti-telling", I just think that it's a case-by-case decision. Sometimes folks incessantly harp on the telling point and harass a poster needlessly for not seeing it "their way".

IF you change your mind and decide to tell one day, I for one will respect that decision as well. I do think that those who decide to tell should consider speaking to a lawyer first so they can plan fully for the possibility of divorce. Realistically, they should consider speaking to one anyhow, as a Dday can certainly happen even if the affair is fully over.

[DKT3]

Confession isnt unnecessary harm...the affair did that. Confession is giving the person the choice to decide for themselves if its something they want. One can justify making unilateral decisions in many forms, all usually based in self preservation.  

It's not about knowing what's best in every situation because we, for the most part, know what the right move is. That's why it's a struggle.  If keeping it secret was the right thing OP wouldn't be posting, in my opinion,  she has made the decision to not confess and is look to validate that decision which is why she gravitates towards those who advocate not doing so, and posting examples of why it's ok not too.

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, Febbow said:

The higher moral principle, I believe, is not hurting people.

There are many times in life that the whole brutal honest truth is not the best option.
We are human, we think, we feel, we have the ability to empathise.
WE make decisions for other people both professionally and socially that we think are best for them.
We don't go about pulling the rug from below other' people's feet and hurting them, just because we can or we think it is "right" and we will not swerve from that path.
Confession here IS unnecessary harm as this will split up a family one way or another and is that fair to the children or the husband, who like many men in that position will struggle to get over it?
No it isn't.
The EA was unnecessary harm but to compound that with twisting the knife makes no sense whatsoever.
IF the OP was saying I am going to continue cheating or I hate my marriage or I detest my husband then he needs to know or she just needs to walk away, but when the OP has resolved to make amends, then it would be highly counter productive to tell him anything.

On 3/31/2020 at 8:16 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

"You can always  tell him... but you can never  UN-tell him".

This^^
He will remember it till his dying day.
I don't think that is right in the circumstances here.

[GoldenR]

Everyone in a committed relationship deserves to have agency in regards to whether or not they want to stay with an unfaithful partner. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by GoldenR

[oldtruck]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:22 AM, Febbow said:

So everyone in the world is the same? This forum proves it? Ok. Sure. 

Simplistic. Wrong. 

I take your warnings. Some of your points are valid but I'm afraid I strongly disagree. Especially that I'm an enemy. I won't accept that. I refuse to. 

statistics

most of those that cheat and do not get caught usually will give in to the 

temptation to cheat again because they never had to face the consequences

and the pain from being caught in an affair.

 

this is why people fear you will back slide again into a PA again. also your

BH as all BS's deserve the truth. nothing worse then finding out you were

a BH twenty years after the fact.

[usa1ah]

At least you found someone to back up your decision to have a affair and to then cover it up. You got your cake and was able to eat it as well. 
 

What he doesn’t know won’t hurt him and you get to keep your special place in his heart. Any and every excuse to keep your place. Priceless. 

[usa1ah]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, elaine567 said:

There are many times in life that the whole brutal honest truth is not the best option.
We are human, we think, we feel, we have the ability to empathise.
WE make decisions for other people both professionally and socially that we think are best for them.
We don't go about pulling the rug from below other' people's feet and hurting them, just because we can or we think it is "right" and we will not swerve from that path.
Confession here IS unnecessary harm as this will split up a family one way or another and is that fair to the children or the husband, who like many men in that position will struggle to get over it?
No it isn't.
The EA was unnecessary harm but to compound that with twisting the knife makes no sense whatsoever.
IF the OP was saying I am going to continue cheating or I hate my marriage or I detest my husband then he needs to know or she just needs to walk away, but when the OP has resolved to make amends, then it would be highly counter productive to tell him anything.

This^^
He will remember it till his dying day.
I don't think that is right in the circumstances here.

Wow, what a different point of view when it is a woman that cheated. 

[Marc878]

Yep, repeats happen all the time.

you change nothing, nothing changes.

[pepperbird]

On 4/4/2020 at 6:22 AM, Febbow said:

I take your warnings. Some of your points are valid but I'm afraid I strongly disagree. Especially that I'm an enemy. I won't accept that. I refuse to. 

op,

looking at your choices, you have been your husband's enemy, but it sounds to me like you're beginning to recognize that and want to do better. Beyond your family, do you have any non-family source support you can speak to in person?

Has your ex-om reached out to you? If so, what did you do? How did you feel about it?

[DKT3]

I'm personally disappointed that so many people believe the sin is in confessing your sin as opposed to the actually action. Cheating is what's done the damage,  even without him knowing,  you've pulled away from your marriage to engage in in your affair, that's damaging.  Giving your spouse the information that would most likely change thier course in life is neither putting them in pain nor is it permanent.  Those are all self serving comments that promote the agenda.  Truth is, as you've described your marriage,  I dont think it would take a whole lot from another woman to make your husband happy,  maybe just a wife who actually likes him enough to share a bed. That's not meant as a shot, but to shine a light on the arrogance of alot of your comments. This idea that through all you've put him through that you believe he is happy is likely flawed. The idea that him learning who you really are (I'm sure he is aware, maybe not to what degree) will cause him permanent damage is grandiose.  It all sounds very similar to just about every wayward spouse that posts here as the are fresh out of thier affair. 

[pepperbird]

OP, some of the really hard questions you should ask yourself are about the  "whys". Why did you choose to cheat on the man you say you love and want to be with? Why do you want to be with him now? Why does that suddenly matter so much? What has changed? Has anything changed? Are you sure being with him is what you really want, or is this something else?

[mark clemson]

Hi again.

@Febbow you may wish to take a glance at the thread linked below from a poster who, like you, chose to stay married but not to tell her husband about her affair.

If you do, you'll notice that pressure to tell from various posters started around January 2019 and continued for seven months until roughly July 2019 when the original poster eventually stopped posting.

So, I suggest you keep a very critical eye as you parse further posts for any/all logical flaws, such as discrepancies, over-generalizations, statements of fact followed by non-facts or by conclusions they don't actually support, attempts to emotionally manipulate you, draw conclusions about things that couldn't possibly be known from online posts, shame you for your choices, etc, etc, etc.

IF you begin to tire of having your decisions and rationale questioned, micro-analyzed, distorted to mean things they don't, belittled, and all the other "stuff" you're likely to encounter going forward, I suggest you keep in mind the handy Ignore functionality that is built into LS. Otherwise, I do believe you're likely to have to sort through an awful lot of "chaff". I do hope I'm wrong, but, as that thread attests, it has happened before around here.

FYI, to my knowledge, the OP @Naivewomen never told her husband. She has pretty much stopped posting, but she does at least occasionally log in to read stuff apparently.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/579410-this-affair-almost-ruined-my-life/#comments

 

[GoldenR]

Yeah....just forget about being a good and moral person going forward.  That's the ticket!  Secrecy, lies and deception are the keys to a great relationship!

Edited April 7, 2020 by GoldenR

[heartwhole2]

And while you're parsing all the advice you receive for logical flaws, make sure to turn your strongest gaze inward.

You came here kind of on the fence about ending it with the OM. For you, it was never a choice between honesty and subterfuge, but a fork in the road. I think on some level you knew that a PA would definitely lead to the end of your marriage. I give you credit for realizing that when many ignore how things will probably end (badly) while they are enjoying the ride. I'm glad you didn't go down that path (though I do wonder based on your extreme resistance to the idea of telling your husband even some semblance of the truth if you have whitewashed things for us too; saying you developed feelings for another person is not the most awful thing you can do in your life . . . did it go farther than you admit?). 

Now that most respondents have taken the focus from your agonizing choice between two men and put it on whether you live truthfully or dishonestly, you seem to be doing a lot of doubling down. That's a very human and natural response, but is it serving you? Are stubbornness and pride the correct ingredients for growth? Or should you be building whatever it is you're going to be building now on something more?

I encourage you to do some exercises in empathy. Reread your first post. Look for all the times you mentioned your husband's feelings, your respect for him, your concern for your children. Think about your topic -- "Guilty" -- and how that is a different beast than "remorseful." 

If you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and you cut that to half, you're improving your life. Hopefully you'll keep making improvements. I do agree that it doesn't all hav etc happen in a day. But I hope, for your own sake, that your goal is always more compassion, more love, more selflessness, more empathy, more maturity, etc. Don't seek those things because we tell you to, or to spite us. Seek them for your loved ones and for yourself.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

7 hours ago, DKT3 said:

 Giving your spouse the information that would most likely change thier course in life is neither putting them in pain nor is it permanent.  

that is upside down logic at its finest.

If "giving your spouse (this) information"  isn't  "permanent" ,   then what is?

 

It remains etched in stone:

 

"IF there is a realistic chance that the spouse may find out elsewhere that you cheated... then you tell them to avoid their finding out from other sources first. 

If it is quite unlikely that the spouse would find out from other sources at all, then you keep silent to avoid hurting the other person"  

(while sucking it up and living with your guilt)

 

It's THAT simple.

 

 

[DKT3]

The damage isnt permanent,  it's most likely he would move on and find someone better suited, or they will actually deal with the issues in thier marriage a figure out a way forward.

 

The example of Naivewomen was actually a poor example because she was still very much invested in her MM and her affair was never really over. Secondly,  she posted roughly two years and was stuck in the same place for the entire time. 

[DKT3]

7 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

that is upside down logic at its finest.

If "giving your spouse (this) information"  isn't  "permanent" ,   then what is?

 

It remains etched in stone:

 

"IF there is a realistic chance that the spouse may find out elsewhere that you cheated... then you tell them to avoid their finding out from other sources first. 

If it is quite unlikely that the spouse would find out from other sources at all, then you keep silent to avoid hurting the other person"  

(while sucking it up and living with your guilt)

 

It's THAT simple.

 

 

Your logic isnt profound, op simply wants to hear what your saying.  

Its actually very flawed...she actually has no idea who knows of her affair so no way to determine the threat of her husband finding out through other means.

Unless an affair happened on the USS Enterprise and they have the ability to beam plenty of people know.

[GoldenR]

Quote

It's THAT simple.

Only to those that are dishonest, deceitful or unremorseful. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by GoldenR

[pepperbird]

op,
It sounds like you have chosen to keep your own counsel. The last thing I will say to that is that if you do so, please remember that it has to stay buried forever. It's important to commit to that fully-you can't bring it up in anger later on.

Making improvements in your marriage will start with the first step. What will that be for you? If you don't mind a piece of advice, is there any way you can have a bit of time for yourself to really think all this through? Are there any points in your marriage that you want to see improve that are "non negotiables " for you?  Also, looking back, what steps led to you having an affair? What will you do to help make sure you make better choices in the future? If it;s a case of " I didn't recognize what was going on until it was too late",  how will you recognize the signs should this happen in the future?

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, DKT3 said:

The example of Naivewomen was actually a poor example because she was still very much invested in her MM and her affair was never really over. Secondly,  she posted roughly two years and was stuck in the same place for the entire time. 

I agree that Naivewomen appeared to be in a somewhat different place than this thread's OP. That said, I think her thread is an excellent example for the point I'm actually making.

To be a bit fairer to you and many other posters, including several above, a lot of the advice you give is IMO often very good and can be very helpful. It seems (to me) that it's when that solid initial advice isn't "enough" (or working quickly enough) to sway a decision to what you feel is the "correct one" that things can get out of hand.

[Febbow]

Hi all,

Thank you for your continued thought provoking comments and for sharing your views. 

I'm totally out of the affair. Been incredibly emotionally draining and sad but clear. 

I am now fully invested in making the marriage work. I know there is a danger I will relapse. I won't though. I wouldn't do that to my husband or to the OM. I understand the hurt and pain I've caused. I have so much self hate at the moment. Some of the harshest replies have felt good to read. Like a very welcome emotional slap/punch into reality. I have been pathetic and disrespectful. The level of anxiety I feel is incredible. I am responsible for poisoning the people involved by my cowardly and awful behaviour and choices.

I really did not have sex to answer. I wouldn't have done that. It doesn't matter though really does it? Kissing/holding hands/countless hours spent being emotionally intimate...almost worse! That's why I fear telling my husband. It's such an insult and it's really damaging to hear the details of that .  At the same time, I'm going to let that sit and really dig deep to work out whether I'm being selfish and cowardly yet again! Ultimately only I can make that decision. I will endeavour to do after some very deep soul searching. 

What caused the affair? I didn't mean it to happen (age old excuse). We had an attraction. Spent time in group settings talking. Started talking about inappropriately emotionally dense subjects .  Then crossed the line by meeting alone as 'friends'. (Idiotic). 

How will I avoid it happening again? No contact with OM. A memory of how horrendous this has been. Proper boundaries. Bullet proofing my marriage. Awakening to how damaging this type of behaviour is.

How do I fix my marriage? Independent counselling (booked); couple counselling after covid ; possibly a confession (after covid) and with correct support (undecided- sorry to those this disgusts); communication; prioritising couple time; changing my mindset to see all the many positives and appreciate them! ; Rewriting my narrative to focus on the good; learning about mature love and the stages it goes through ; learning about marriage and how to nurture it (John gottman , Esther Perel, Alain De Barton, etc.) ; Sleeping in the same bedroom again! Working to understand my negative mindset and attachment issues. Working to resolve my fear of abandonment . Allowing myself to be truly vulnerable and open with my husband instead of expecting him to mind read (and then be resentful!/shut down)! 

I have high hopes. I may go quiet around here because I need to harness my energy and pain to spur me into putting the effort into counselling and into making things right. It's been a tough week/year. Starting afresh now . The power of now!

[Bittersweetie]

Febbow, I wish you well as you move forward. Here is something from my experience in examining the whys: every time I thought I knew why this happened, I kept going. My H called it "peeling the onion." I freaking peeled that onion until there was nothing left. So every time you think you know why, keep going. Keep thinking and keep pushing. We owe that to ourselves and our marriages to fully understand why we made the choices we made. Sometimes the why is not the first answer, or the second, or even the third. It took my a while to get to my true why. Keep going.

[Robert2016]

1 - go 100% NC (not even in the same room or see him at soccer practice). Why? every time you see him it triggers your feelings.

2 - exposing your EA to your husband. why?  because he needs and has a right to know how far in the ditch the marriage is; and also if the OM divorces there's a good chance he'll find out anyway or become suspicious (making it very difficult for him to trust you).

3 - to strengthen your marriage and your husband's trust and to show that you are  not protecting the OM or justifying his/your behavior, offer to expose the EA to his wife.  DO NOT WARN THE OM>  I know you absolutely hate doing it - but this burns your bridge to the OM .... and is a consequence of your inappropriate behavior.  

The  OM's wife has a right to know and by remaining silent you are actively enabling a cheater to abuse his spouse.  His wife probably wonders why he's so distant or argues all the time (because he's having an affair and checked out). She probably blames herself while it's really about his failure as a husband - all the time and sweet words he invested in you should have been invested in his hard working wife.

4 - read self help books on how to help your husband heal from your betrayal.

5 - you violated a lot of personal boundaries to get yourself into an EA.  Read self books on how to protect your marriage by implementing boundaries.

..

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Robert2016

[Robert2016]

Prepare a detailed timeline of your EA (times, dates, places, topics discussed and what you did).   It shows you are serious about confessing.

One more suggestion: consider offering to take a polygraph test to assure your husband that their was no sex.

Go so far as to look up polygraph experts in advance.