Guilty

[DKT3]

The arrogance of some cheaters wont allow them to imagine the BS would actually be better and happier with out them. Or that the children would be better not living in a loveless home full of betrayal and secrets. 

[mark clemson]

@heartwhole2 - a few things:

First off, I'm glad to hear you reconciled and are now happy, I hadn't followed your story.

Second, if you look back at the post I was responding to, BMI03 was actually making a rather different point which brought up the cancer discussion.

However, you went with the cancer metaphor and rolled with it, that's fine.

Generally, I agree with the point that if the person stops the affair but doesn't also change to renew their love for their spouse that isn't a genuine reconciliation.

To continue with the cancer metaphor, there are, as you are probably aware, benign tumors, which are cancerous but do not spread. I see an affair that ended and has been put behind one as similar to that. It's there, but it does no real harm. This assumes that re-commitment to the marriage is genuine and sincere.

Revealing the affair is a bit like discovering or pointing out the benign tumor. It's not actually necessary for the health of the patient (marriage) OR for the happiness of the children.

We could extend that metaphor to address a few key points if needed, but I think I'll leave it for now.

 

The above said I see the risk-reward balance between:

11 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Obviously the BH would prefer never to have been cheated on. But unfortunately that's not his reality, and if his wife tries to pretend that it is, there will always be something off, always something between them.

I know the statistics; many marriages do not survive infidelity (though, surprisingly, a majority stay together). And it is no small thing to risk separating a child's parents.

...very differently from you.

As I think you know I don't see the promise of an "even better" marriage (that may or may not materialize) as worth the risk of it ending, or at least that it's always going to be worth that risk. I fully recognize there can be benefits, assuming there is still a marriage around to receive those benefits, but I strongly feel it's a decision, rather than some sort of moral imperative.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by mark clemson

[pepperbird]

25 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

@heartwhole2 - a few things:

First off, I'm glad to hear you reconciled and are now happy, I hadn't followed your story.

Second, if you look back at the post I was responding to, BMI03 was actually making a rather different point which brought up the cancer discussion.

However, you went with the cancer metaphor and rolled with it, that's fine.

Generally, I agree with the point that if the person stops the affair but doesn't also change to renew their love for their spouse that isn't a genuine reconciliation.

To continue with the cancer metaphor, there are, as you are probably aware, benign tumors, which are cancerous but do not spread. I see an affair that ended and has been put behind one as similar to that. It's there, but it does no real harm. This assumes that re-commitment to the marriage is genuine and sincere.

Revealing the affair is a bit like discovering or pointing out the benign tumor. It's not actually necessary for the health of the patient (marriage) OR for the happiness of the children.

We could extend that metaphor to address a few key points if needed, but I think I'll leave it for now.

 

The above said I see the risk-reward balance between:

...very differently from you.

As I think you know I don't see the promise of an "even better" marriage (that may or may not materialize) as worth the risk of it ending, or at least that it's always going to be worth that risk. I fully recognize there can be benefits, assuming there is still a marriage around to receive those benefits, but I strongly feel it's a decision, rather than some sort of moral imperative.

 

 

A BS is a fully functioning adult. I fail to see why a WS feels they are in ANY position to make decisions for them and in effect, that is what not disclosing effectively does. 
Think of it this way, let's say someone hacked into your bank account because of issues with their cyber security ( I hope I'm using the right terms, I'm not really computer savvy  ). They fixed that one problem, but there might still be others. Would you want to know, or would you be fine not knowing about the risk you are assuming by continuing to put your money in that account?

Just my opinion, but unless there is 100 percent chance the BS will never, ever found out or if there is a health concern in the BS, they need the truth. Others may feel differently, but to me, it comes right down to to the type of relationship you want to have. One that's built of honesty or one that's built on quicksand where you have a knife always hanging over your head because the BS may find out., It's also one built on true love and not love of someone, for all intents and purposes,  no longer exists.

[DKT3]

@mark clemson those things are not mutually exclusive,  it's a decision with high moral implications.  The decision you're making is to rob your spouse of choice,  to rob them of any decision as to what kind of life they want to lead. And to place the sad reality into this situation (specifically for women) putting thier lives at a much higher risk all without thier knowledge. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by DKT3

[mark clemson]

@usa1ah, @DKT3 and others -

On the kids issue, I see things somewhat differently, for several reasons:

1) Characterizing a family or relationship where one person had an affair, ended it, and then re-devoted themselves to their partner and family as "loveless" just because they never told their partner about the affair is probably going to be inaccurate in the vast majority of cases - you don't get to define what "loving" is to others

2) As far as kids go, even with an affair some WS's apparently double-down on attention/affection to their kids (however I DO suspect and agree that probably rare).

3) Marriages and parenting generally are not some 1950's sitcom bed of roses. There are myriad problems for kids in the US and of course everywhere in the world that have nothing to do with infidelity. From poverty and homelessness to single parents with multiple jobs, to workaholics, drug addiction, child abuse, molestation, parents who fight or have mental health issues, "roommate marriages", etc, etc, many children face a very tough road. I'm not saying we should throw infidelity into the mix, but given what real kids in the real world actually go through daily, I'd say claiming that having "some distance" between otherwise decent and loving parents because one of them never revealed one limited affair equates to a lifetime of torture is, frankly, ridiculous.

4) At the risk of speaking for @elaine567, the more I think about it, the more I realize that she and I are both apparently seeing a huge moral blindspot in this "tell no matter what" approach when it comes to kids. It seems to me it puts the need of grown adults for "agency" above the actual emotional and physical needs of their children. UsaIah, you claim kids deserve 2 healthy loving parents. Well, that's exactly what this advice to tell rolls the dice on. We all know dice don't always turn up the way you'd hope. And DKT3 you mention a decision with high moral implications and (in rare cases) putting women's (and children's too) safety at risk. I agree, but I see it the other way. You're rolling the dice there too.

If women and children shouldn't be put at risk, that's exactly what an affair does AND that's exactly what telling does TOO. It IS a decision with high moral implications, which IMO is exactly what the tell-no-matter-what crowd doesn't seem to get. Given this advice to random strangers on the internet is tantamount to risking blowing up their children's lives. Given the apparent prevalence of this advice, I'd say it's extremely likely that young children have indeed had their parents divorce, with all the negatives that come with that. It's well within the realm of possibility that children have had one parent beat or even murder the other and had to deal with the fallout from that.

So no, I don't agree at all with one-size-fits-all advice on this issue. In general, and particularly when there are children involved, I see it as huge moral risk for the person giving the advice and in at least some cases a huge ACTUAL risk for persons receiving it. It's something to be considered, not acted on in haste. And I definitely don't think posters should be berated or otherwise put down because they think it isn't worth the risk in their specific situation. Particularly if they have kids.

[pepperbird]

5 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

@usa1ah, @DKT3 and others -

On the kids issue, I see things somewhat differently, for several reasons:

1) Characterizing a family or relationship where one person had an affair, ended it, and then re-devoted themselves to their partner and family as "loveless" just because they never told their partner about the affair is probably going to be inaccurate in the vast majority of cases - you don't get to define what "loving" is to others

2) As far as kids go, even with an affair some WS's apparently double-down on attention/affection to their kids (however I DO suspect and agree that probably rare).

3) Marriages and parenting generally are not some 1950's sitcom bed of roses. There are myriad problems for kids in the US and of course everywhere in the world that have nothing to do with infidelity. From poverty and homelessness to single parents with multiple jobs, to workaholics, drug addiction, child abuse, molestation, parents who fight or have mental health issues, "roommate marriages", etc, etc, many children face a very tough road. I'm not saying we should throw infidelity into the mix, but given what real kids in the real world actually go through daily, I'd say claiming that having "some distance" between otherwise decent and loving parents because one of them never revealed one limited affair equates to a lifetime of torture is, frankly, ridiculous.

4) At the risk of speaking for @elaine567, the more I think about it, the more I realize that she and I are both apparently seeing a huge moral blindspot in this "tell no matter what" approach when it comes to kids. It seems to me it puts the need of grown adults for "agency" above the actual emotional and physical needs of their children. UsaIah, you claim kids deserve 2 healthy loving parents. Well, that's exactly what this advice to tell rolls the dice on. We all know dice don't always turn up the way you'd hope. And DKT3 you mention a decision with high moral implications and (in rare cases) putting women's (and children's too) safety at risk. I agree, but I see it the other way. You're rolling the dice there too.

If women and children shouldn't be put at risk, that's exactly what an affair does AND that's exactly what telling does TOO. It IS a decision with high moral implications, which IMO is exactly what the tell-no-matter-what crowd doesn't seem to get. Given this advice to random strangers on the internet is tantamount to risking blowing up their children's lives. Given the apparent prevalence of this advice, I'd say it's extremely likely that young children have indeed had their parents divorce, with all the negatives that come with that. It's well within the realm of possibility that children have had one parent beat or even murder the other and had to deal with the fallout from that.

So no, I don't agree at all with one-size-fits-all advice on this issue. In general, and particularly when there are children involved, I see it as huge moral risk for the person giving the advice and in at least some cases a huge ACTUAL risk for persons receiving it. It's something to be considered, not acted on in haste. And I definitely don't think posters should be berated or otherwise put down because they think it isn't worth the risk in their specific situation. Particularly if they have kids.

I'm sorry, but the WS has already shown, by concrete action, that they will put themselves first. In my experience, some WS can learn and never , ever cheat again. To them, the idea of cheating becomes something they never want to do again. I can understand the appeal of keeping the secret buried. It's one hell of a lot less messy. 
The problem is that, especially in an age when people can find out just about anything if they look hard enough, It's pretty hard to guarantee a spouse will never find out. It also assumes the ow/om will never, ever tell, and that's something the WS has no control over.




 

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

@mark clemson those things are not mutually exclusive,  it's a decision with high moral implications.  The decision you're making is to rob your spouse of choice,  to rob them of any decision as to what kind of life they want to lead. And to place the sad reality into this situation (specifically for women) putting thier lives at a much higher risk all without thier knowledge. 

Lots on here would be telling a WS who wnated to be with their ow/om to go, divorce and be with the person they love. The kids will be okay. Divorce happens all the time! Kids are resilient!@ They'll bounce back! They just want mom and dad to be happy!
The flip side when the WS decides they want to stay? Oh no! The affair must NEVER come to light lest it hurt the children.
Cheater logic. It makes no sense to me.

[mark clemson]

15 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Lots on here would be telling a WS who wnated to be with their ow/om to go, divorce and be with the person they love. The kids will be okay. Divorce happens all the time! Kids are resilient!@ They'll bounce back! They just want mom and dad to be happy!

Fair enough, but I'm not one of those people. Also my post is for a situation where a WS doesn't want to end the marriage.

Divorce is rolling the dice as well. A WS has NO control over who their X's next partner may be, a person who will treat their kids fairly decently or NOT. Or an alchoholic, or a person with a personality disorder, or what have you.

I personally witnessed a situation where the second wife actively tried to drive a wedge between the H/dad and the kids. She was angling to have ALL his assets left to her and NONE for his kids. It almost worked too, but she died unexpectedly.

Sure divorce happens every day, but I'm not one who minimizes the impact. There can be many potential consequences down the road, for both spouse and children.

Edited April 14, 2020 by mark clemson

[DKT3]

Mark those consequences are a result of the affair. The question has to be asked, if those things were/are so important why would one risk it by having an affair.  That is what makes alot of the dont tell arguments irrelevant, or less than genuine. All of those things were not important enough to avoid the affair,  right?

Ultimately,  no matter how they protest, it comes down to not wanting thier poor behavior and actions to affect them...THEM going forward  As I mentioned before,  any good for others is a byproduct.  

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

@usa1ah, @DKT3 and others -

On the kids issue, I see things somewhat differently, for several reasons:

1) Characterizing a family or relationship where one person had an affair, ended it, and then re-devoted themselves to their partner and family as "loveless" just because they never told their partner about the affair is probably going to be inaccurate in the vast majority of cases - you don't get to define what "loving" is to others

2) As far as kids go, even with an affair some WS's apparently double-down on attention/affection to their kids (however I DO suspect and agree that probably rare).

3) Marriages and parenting generally are not some 1950's sitcom bed of roses. There are myriad problems for kids in the US and of course everywhere in the world that have nothing to do with infidelity. From poverty and homelessness to single parents with multiple jobs, to workaholics, drug addiction, child abuse, molestation, parents who fight or have mental health issues, "roommate marriages", etc, etc, many children face a very tough road. I'm not saying we should throw infidelity into the mix, but given what real kids in the real world actually go through daily, I'd say claiming that having "some distance" between otherwise decent and loving parents because one of them never revealed one limited affair equates to a lifetime of torture is, frankly, ridiculous.

4) At the risk of speaking for @elaine567, the more I think about it, the more I realize that she and I are both apparently seeing a huge moral blindspot in this "tell no matter what" approach when it comes to kids. It seems to me it puts the need of grown adults for "agency" above the actual emotional and physical needs of their children. UsaIah, you claim kids deserve 2 healthy loving parents. Well, that's exactly what this advice to tell rolls the dice on. We all know dice don't always turn up the way you'd hope. And DKT3 you mention a decision with high moral implications and (in rare cases) putting women's (and children's too) safety at risk. I agree, but I see it the other way. You're rolling the dice there too.

If women and children shouldn't be put at risk, that's exactly what an affair does AND that's exactly what telling does TOO. It IS a decision with high moral implications, which IMO is exactly what the tell-no-matter-what crowd doesn't seem to get. Given this advice to random strangers on the internet is tantamount to risking blowing up their children's lives. Given the apparent prevalence of this advice, I'd say it's extremely likely that young children have indeed had their parents divorce, with all the negatives that come with that. It's well within the realm of possibility that children have had one parent beat or even murder the other and had to deal with the fallout from that.

So no, I don't agree at all with one-size-fits-all advice on this issue. In general, and particularly when there are children involved, I see it as huge moral risk for the person giving the advice and in at least some cases a huge ACTUAL risk for persons receiving it. It's something to be considered, not acted on in haste. And I definitely don't think posters should be berated or otherwise put down because they think it isn't worth the risk in their specific situation. Particularly if they have kids.

This is not what happened when my mom cheated on my dad. She never had a good thing to say about him after the divorce. She also wanted to be a teenager again so she was always out partying if she wasn’t working. My oldest sister looked after us that till she turned 12 and went to live with my dad. We each ended up going to live with my dad once we turn 12. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by usa1ah

[GoldenR]

Unfortunately, all of the "love" she is giving to her BH now is a farce, and simply actions taking place out of guilt.  

[Febbow]

BM103... I don't normally react in anger at posts but yours have really annoyed me. You have true capacity to damage people with such harsh words and thoughts based really on some snapshots of a much broader more complex issue. You are incredibly 'black and white'. I would ask you to consider how constructive your argument can ever be when you're quite so insulting and obviously angry. You're entitled to your opinions but without knowing me, my situation or indeed my mental health background, I'd ask you to consider whether it's really necessary to be quite to harsh and rude. State your opinion for sure. I don't entirely disagree but some of the name calling and nastiness.. dislike. 

My love to my husband is guilt induced? Ok, again your opinion. I disagree entirely. 

Kissing and emotional affair means I'm a dreadful mother and wife? Again, I disagree entirely. My actions were terrible . The don't define all that happened before or after. Accountability for my actions and true remorse? Yes.  

I know my first post was horrible here. I was very much in an affair fog. I know I had poor boundaries to the max. I let me marriage get to a point where I didn't protect it. Emotionally distant and lonely. My fault. I understand that now. I was stupid and I made selfish and disgusting choices all along the path. Until now. No more. 

I will be telling my husband when social lockdown is over in the right way with the right support. I want him to know how much work I've done in the interim  to figure out how to reassure him it'll never happen again. I have read so many books about how to ensure marriages thrive. About how to protect them from this very issues. 'Avoiding the greener grass syndrome' was excellent (although I'm not a practising Christian).

I made some awful decisions. I will never repeat this behaviour. I think this stuff should be taught at school. How to have a good long term relationship. How to communicate. Warning signs to look out for that things are going wrong .  That longer term love needs constant repair, effort and work. I genuinely didn't realise. I certainly did not go looking for an affair. I met someone I was attracted to and made awful choices based on being fed emotionally when I should have been working out how to communicate my needs at home. It's inexcusable. I wish I knew what I did now. Hindsight. I rewrote my entire script with my husband. Typical limarence. Obsessed with OM. Romanticised him. My husband was kind and wonderful always. I didn't have the same 'spark' but perhaps that was a sign he was much better emotional healthy love for me. And I may have completely ruined it! I justified my woeful behaviour and gradually went down the line of making more and more pathetic choices. I stopped though. I came out of the fog. The OM wants to leave his wife. He would still be here but something snapped me into reality and the acceptance that what I did and was continuing to do was based on an absolute fantasy and lies and deception. I dislike myself. I dislike the OM now as well. Serious character flaws to act that way. Not ok. But you know, I will use this all to make me grow. I already feel so much wiser. So much healthier and more hopeful about my ability to communicate and lay myself vulnerable to my husband in the future. To bulletproof my marriage and family . To work on some unresolved issues from my childhood and to change some entrenched behaviours . I'm anxiously attached in terms of attachment style and need to work out how to change my negative and needy inner voice. The work has began and will continue. 

Thanks for your advice. 

Telling or not telling? I will be telling.

[mark clemson]

Good for you @Febbow. I'm glad you can have trust in your husband's restraint and ability to see things clearly. Not everyone has that luxury.

I hope it's ok if I continue a broader discussion with DKT3. If not, we can move it to a different thread.

 

3 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Mark those consequences are a result of the affair. The question has to be asked, if those things were/are so important why would one risk it by having an affair.  That is what makes alot of the dont tell arguments irrelevant, or less than genuine. All of those things were not important enough to avoid the affair,  right?

Ultimately,  no matter how they protest, it comes down to not wanting thier poor behavior and actions to affect them...THEM going forward  As I mentioned before,  any good for others is a byproduct.  

Are they? They're actually NOT the consequences of a now-completed affair. The consequences we're talking about are only the consequences of the affair WITH the revelation of it.

This might be the view I'd have if I was giving random strangers advice that might harm their children - the moral blind spot.

Keeping an affair secret shows that things like keeping the family together and avoiding harm to the children are important to the WS. You can avoid harm to yourself and to others with the same action. I fully agree they took a foolish risk with those things, but the secrecy IS the intended protection. There's no "law" that that protection somehow can't be for others too - in fact it has that exact effect. It's just your interpretation that's making it "narrowed" down.

If there was little risk of discovery and some WS was unfortunate enough to follow this advice and triggered their husband into a murder-suicide, that would be irrelevant? I would think it's pretty relevant. How about a much-more-likely divorce? Pretty relevant too for WS and any kids, too.

The Dday actualizes consequences. Which may include harm to a BS, WS, and children if there are any. There are potential benefits of revealing - I do recognize that, but they go with these major risks.

Few people would argue affairs are moral. I see giving one-size-fits-all blanket advice to tell to random strangers to reveal their affairs as pretty immoral too.

[mark clemson]

9 minutes ago, Febbow said:

You have true capacity to damage people with such harsh words and thoughts based really on some snapshots of a much broader more complex issue. You are incredibly 'black and white'. I would ask you to consider how constructive your argument can ever be when you're quite so insulting and obviously angry. You're entitled to your opinions but without knowing me, my situation or indeed my mental health background, I'd ask you to consider whether it's really necessary to be quite to harsh and rude. State your opinion for sure. I don't entirely disagree but some of the name calling and nastiness.. dislike.

Speaking generally, when I see posts that are emotionally "cutting" I try to remember that those "vibes" are almost certainly coming from a place of unresolved emotional pain. From everything I understand from reading around here, affairs (coupled with revelations) do cause extreme emotional distress/PTSD for some people. Unfortunately some folks seemingly can't help "taking it out" on WS when they give their advice. The advice itself isn't necessarily bad, although I do feel it can sometimes be one-sided and subtly deceptive and so need "parsing".

My advice to them, again generally, would be to seek therapy. IF it works for them it would probably significantly ease fairly intense emotional pain that is probably getting re-triggered by many things in their life. Also the would be able to post without either consciously or unconsciously hurting others.

I believe some people carry this with them permanently.

I would never advise someone to have an affair.

[Febbow]

BM103... I don't normally react in anger at posts but yours have really annoyed me. You have true capacity to damage people with such harsh words and thoughts based really on some snapshots of a much broader more complex issue. You are incredibly 'black and white'. I would ask you to consider how constructive your argument can ever be when you're quite so insulting and obviously angry. You're entitled to your opinions but without knowing me, my situation or indeed my mental health background, I'd ask you to consider whether it's really necessary to be quite to harsh and rude. State your opinion for sure. I don't entirely disagree but some of the name calling and nastiness.. dislike.

edited to add (..Oh and Golden R , usa1 and Dk23 and a few others here as well. Some of your words are incredibly unkind and given youre preaching for me to be a better person, it seems somewhat ironic you guys speak the way you do). 

My love to my husband is guilt induced? Ok, again your opinion. I disagree entirely. 

Kissing and emotional affair means I'm a dreadful mother and wife? Again, I disagree entirely. My actions were terrible . The don't define all that happened before or after. Accountability for my actions and true remorse? Yes.  

I know my first post was horrible here. I was very much in an affair fog. I know I had poor boundaries to the max. I let me marriage get to a point where I didn't protect it. Emotionally distant and lonely. My fault. I understand that now. I was stupid and I made selfish and disgusting choices all along the path. Until now. No more. 

I will be telling my husband when social lockdown is over in the right way with the right support. I want him to know how much work I've done in the interim  to figure out how to reassure him it'll never happen again. I have read so many books about how to ensure marriages thrive. About how to protect them from this very issues. 'Avoiding the greener grass syndrome' was excellent (although I'm not a practising Christian).

I made some awful decisions. I will never repeat this behaviour. I think this stuff should be taught at school. How to have a good long term relationship. How to communicate. Warning signs to look out for that things are going wrong .  That longer term love needs constant repair, effort and work. I genuinely didn't realise. I certainly did not go looking for an affair. I met someone I was attracted to and made awful choices based on being fed emotionally when I should have been working out how to communicate my needs at home. It's inexcusable. I wish I knew what I did now. Hindsight. I rewrote my entire script with my husband. Typical limarence. Obsessed with OM. Romanticised him. My husband was kind and wonderful always. I didn't have the same 'spark' but perhaps that was a sign he was much better emotional healthy love for me. And I may have completely ruined it! I justified my woeful behaviour and gradually went down the line of making more and more pathetic choices. I stopped though. I came out of the fog. The OM wants to leave his wife. He would still be here but something snapped me into reality and the acceptance that what I did and was continuing to do was based on an absolute fantasy and lies and deception. I dislike myself. I dislike the OM now as well. Serious character flaws to act that way. Not ok. But you know, I will use this all to make me grow. I already feel so much wiser. So much healthier and more hopeful about my ability to communicate and lay myself vulnerable to my husband in the future. To bulletproof my marriage and family . To work on some unresolved issues from my childhood and to change some entrenched behaviours . I'm anxiously attached in terms of attachment style and need to work out how to change my negative and needy inner voice. The work has began and will continue. 

Thanks for your advice. 

Telling or not telling? I will be telling.

[pepperbird]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Sure divorce happens every day, but I'm not one who minimizes the impact. There can be many potential consequences down the road, for both spouse and children.

I agree whole heatedly. Seems the kids can sometimes be forgotten in all the adult issues going on. I don't think it;s intentional, but it does happen.

[pepperbird]

51 minutes ago, Febbow said:

BM103... I don't normally react in anger at posts but yours have really annoyed me. You have true capacity to damage people with such harsh words and thoughts based really on some snapshots of a much broader more complex issue. You are incredibly 'black and white'. I would ask you to consider how constructive your argument can ever be when you're quite so insulting and obviously angry. You're entitled to your opinions but without knowing me, my situation or indeed my mental health background, I'd ask you to consider whether it's really necessary to be quite to harsh and rude. State your opinion for sure. I don't entirely disagree but some of the name calling and nastiness.. dislike.

edited to add (..Oh and Golden R , usa1 and Dk23 and a few others here as well. Some of your words are incredibly unkind and given youre preaching for me to be a better person, it seems somewhat ironic you guys speak the way you do). 

My love to my husband is guilt induced? Ok, again your opinion. I disagree entirely. 

Kissing and emotional affair means I'm a dreadful mother and wife? Again, I disagree entirely. My actions were terrible . The don't define all that happened before or after. Accountability for my actions and true remorse? Yes.  

I know my first post was horrible here. I was very much in an affair fog. I know I had poor boundaries to the max. I let me marriage get to a point where I didn't protect it. Emotionally distant and lonely. My fault. I understand that now. I was stupid and I made selfish and disgusting choices all along the path. Until now. No more. 

I will be telling my husband when social lockdown is over in the right way with the right support. I want him to know how much work I've done in the interim  to figure out how to reassure him it'll never happen again. I have read so many books about how to ensure marriages thrive. About how to protect them from this very issues. 'Avoiding the greener grass syndrome' was excellent (although I'm not a practising Christian).

I made some awful decisions. I will never repeat this behaviour. I think this stuff should be taught at school. How to have a good long term relationship. How to communicate. Warning signs to look out for that things are going wrong .  That longer term love needs constant repair, effort and work. I genuinely didn't realise. I certainly did not go looking for an affair. I met someone I was attracted to and made awful choices based on being fed emotionally when I should have been working out how to communicate my needs at home. It's inexcusable. I wish I knew what I did now. Hindsight. I rewrote my entire script with my husband. Typical limarence. Obsessed with OM. Romanticised him. My husband was kind and wonderful always. I didn't have the same 'spark' but perhaps that was a sign he was much better emotional healthy love for me. And I may have completely ruined it! I justified my woeful behaviour and gradually went down the line of making more and more pathetic choices. I stopped though. I came out of the fog. The OM wants to leave his wife. He would still be here but something snapped me into reality and the acceptance that what I did and was continuing to do was based on an absolute fantasy and lies and deception. I dislike myself. I dislike the OM now as well. Serious character flaws to act that way. Not ok. But you know, I will use this all to make me grow. I already feel so much wiser. So much healthier and more hopeful about my ability to communicate and lay myself vulnerable to my husband in the future. To bulletproof my marriage and family . To work on some unresolved issues from my childhood and to change some entrenched behaviours . I'm anxiously attached in terms of attachment style and need to work out how to change my negative and needy inner voice. The work has began and will continue. 

Thanks for your advice. 

Telling or not telling? I will be telling.

for what it's worth, to me, you sound like someone who really does want to make things better. Don't be too hard on yourself-that won't help anyone. It's going to be a long road ahead, but it may well really pay off for you. I hope it does.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

2 hours ago, Febbow said:

 

I will be telling my husband when social lockdown is over in the right way with the right support. I want him to know how much work I've done in the interim  to figure out how to reassure him it'll never happen again. I have read so many books about how to ensure marriages thrive. About how to protect them from this very issues. 'Avoiding the greener grass syndrome' was excellent (although I'm not a practising Christian).

 

 

2 hours ago, Febbow said:

Telling or not telling? I will be telling.

 

that is merely the move made by someone who, deep within, wants the other side to initiate a break-up...   because they aren't strong/sure enough to do it themselves.

 

(except, as we've already gone over, when there is a realistic chance that the innocent partner may learn of the affair through outside sources)

 

But at least you will have this written-at-Loveshack record to chronicle how your dye was cast.

[Buffer]

Hi Febbow,

In with anger, out with love. Some here are indeed angry, hurt and in despair due to infidelity. They have had to go through the ‘Been there, Done that’; and have come out the other end, some in R, others in D. You are on the spot there. Do what you feel is right, we here just try to help minimise the mistakes and hurt. 
one day at a time

Buffer

[heartwhole2]

A wise person once told me that when something makes you go, "Ouch!" you should look inside and see why it bothered you. The part that smarts is the key is to growing into a better you.  

I try to be cognizant of projection but we're all human. We aren't professionals. I do think you can benefit from collective wisdom here but it's important to take what suits your situation and leave the rest. Even when I agree with the poster's overall advice, I cannot condone messages that say something like, "Well she's just too horrible to do the right thing anyway." Do we want people to choose health and wholeness and honesty for their own sake, or just to spite us and prove us wrong? A life well-lived is inducement enough. We shouldn't need to berate people into wanting those things.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by heartwhole2

[Febbow]

I apologise. I was angry when I read some of the harsher words and reacted with equal anger.  I truly have not minded the 'reality check' line of advice. I've appreciated it . It's the nastiness which is unhelpful and damaging. At the same time, I am sorry to the posters who I singled out. This was unkind of me hence perpetuating the cycle. At the same time, I would still ask you to please reflect on the tone you deliver some of your message with, and perhaps be more aware that the BS is a real living breathing person. And people can be so down already that your words can result in more negativity when framed in such an angry way. 

So, I think now is the time I would ask admin to close my thread if at all possible? I have made my decision. And I dearly want to shut down the capacity to read things that set me back. I need all my energy and focus to move forward. I've truly appreciated all your advice and feedback. Some of you are incredibly wise. Thank you. I may return with an update at some point and will start a new thread. 

As an aside, Sincereonlineguy I would wholly disagree that to base my marriage on truth and honesty is some secret death wish for it. It really isn't. I want it to be the best it can be and like a lot of the posters have stated , I owe my husband the choice. While I dearly want him to choose to stay and forgive (with my ongoing effort and love) , he deserves to have the full knowledge. As uncomfortable and scary as that is.

Advice to WS reading:

Leave the fantasy of the affair now. Get out and get help. Realise fully the damage you've caused by your actions and then move forward (at speed) from this point on. Your 'love' with your AP is most likely untrue. And even if it is true, you are married! You should have the respect, love and honesty to shut down one relationship before deceitfully starting and continuing another. 

Thank you loveshack and members. 

 

 

 

[Paul]

Greetings all,

We've closed this thread at the request of @Febbow. Thank you all for your insights and participation!

@Febbow, should you wish to reopen the thread, please let us know!

Best,
Paul