Thinking back after 5 years

[pepperbird]

op,

If you don't  mind a piece of advice, it would be for you to be on your own for a while. Take some time to catch your breath and really think about what you want your future to look like.
One more thing. If you want to heal and move forward, it;s important to start looking at this from an "I" perspective. No "I cheated because of my wife". The reaosn for this is that what you don't take ownership of, you can't change  i"I cheated because I made the decision to do so, but I have learned form this. Going forward, I will learn better ways of behaving, work on my boundaries, etc." has a lot more hope,. It puts you firmly in the driver's seat of your life. Just as your OW didn't drag you into the affair kicking and screaming, your wife is not responsible for your behaviour either.
Whatever your wife did or didn't do is irrelevant. She is not the person seeking support and advice. You have no control over her-you only have control over yourself. Make an appointment for an online or phone consult with a lawyer today and put your foot on the road to sorting through all of this.

Edited April 9, 2020 by pepperbird

[jnel921]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 11:27 AM, elaine567 said:

Well it is obvious she didn't forgive you. You no doubt "ruined her life" by your affair and she is in no mood to pander to you, she wants to keep punishing you for the hurt you caused her.
She didn't want to get a job as SHE was the victim here. 
You have an affair and she has to recompense YOU.. that is not how it usually works... 
With some people they never forget or forgive and whilst those in the affair want it all their own way and to rug sweep and carry on as normal, that may not be how the person who was betrayed feels.
OK the marriage was not good, you were arguing, there was little sex and you were in counselling,  but that doesn't justify an affair surely?
She no doubt was "blindsided", she thought things were a little tough but another woman????
You, after Dday used the affair to try to cajole her into being the wife you wanted...
She played the "pick me dance" for a while no doubt, but once she saw you were going nowhere, she let her hurt and resentment take over.
YOU had an affair that hurt her to her core, so in the cold light of day, she was not going to play ball and be the substitute for your wonderful OW...
As you are no doubt even more unhappy, you now want your OW back.
Another woman who probably hates you...

Just because she forgave him doesn't give her a pass to punish him for the rest of his life. I can say this as my D-Day was years ago and as the BW I can say that we both worked on fixing our marriage. When things start going back to the beginning then someone isn't doing the work. The OP here wants love. Perhaps he needs to reevaluate his M and realize kids are not a reason to stay ever.

[sandylee1]

I can't understand why women like your wife lower themselves to screaming and shouting when a husband says he's done. 

I understand she may be in shock, but she must see neither of you were happy.

I also don't get this laziness of not working once the kids are in school. 

[elaine567]

18 minutes ago, sandylee1 said:

, but she must see neither of you were happy

Not necessarily true.
As far as she is concerned they have put it all behind them.
She may have been perfectly happy and settled.
Now she is in hell... again...

[moonman1]

5 hours ago, pepperbird said:

op,

If you don't  mind a piece of advice, it would be for you to be on your own for a while. Take some time to catch your breath and really think about what you want your future to look like.
One more thing. If you want to heal and move forward, it;s important to start looking at this from an "I" perspective. No "I cheated because of my wife". The reaosn for this is that what you don't take ownership of, you can't change  i"I cheated because I made the decision to do so, but I have learned form this. Going forward, I will learn better ways of behaving, work on my boundaries, etc." has a lot more hope,. It puts you firmly in the driver's seat of your life. Just as your OW didn't drag you into the affair kicking and screaming, your wife is not responsible for your behaviour either.
Whatever your wife did or didn't do is irrelevant. She is not the person seeking support and advice. You have no control over her-you only have control over yourself. Make an appointment for an online or phone consult with a lawyer today and put your foot on the road to sorting through all of this.

I never said I cheated because of my wife, only that marriage was not good even before affair.  I have taken full blame for affair, it was wrong and I will never do that again.  At this point I am not going to be looking for another relationship anytime soon or ever.  Regardless I will continue with my individual counseling and will continue to work on myself.  Thank you though, its good to have a reminder that I can only change myself. 

[moonman1]

45 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Not necessarily true.
As far as she is concerned they have put it all behind them.
She may have been perfectly happy and settled.
Now she is in hell... again...

Sorry but lots of assumptions on your part in previous posts and this one.  Other post she never moved on or forgave me, this one she put it behind. 

Either way no win situation here, believe me when I say I tried these last years to move foreword with her.  Even if we were good companions I would have stayed but bringing up affair again and again in every situation from picking new appliances to not loading dishwasher right is not something I want for the rest of my life.  She found fault in everything I did, and somehow it was because of my affair.  This time she is hell of her own making.  She is in hell because cushy life she was living belittling me is over.  I will not take that anymore.  Yes once again affair was my fault and I did everything I could to make it better.  But I am done now. 

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, moonman1 said:

Other post she never moved on or forgave me, this one she put it behind.

Yes she was "happy" in a marriage that involved putting you down at  every opportunity, to punish you and recompense her for the hurt she felt over your affair.
She put it behind her, in that she was going nowhere. 
You reaped what you sowed.
You thought you could make it better, but she never forgave you.
You can blame her for the "hell of her own making", but you brought the hell into her life and you are doing it again...
Take some responsibility.

[moonman1]

So these last two days have been interesting.  Since I left my wife has been calling nonstop.  Leaving threatening messages to crying.  I do talk to her once a day but that's it.  My in laws called, they want me to come back.  I have always maintained good relationship with them even when my wife did not maintain any relationship with my family.  I told them I was not ever going back to that marriage.   They are frustrated as well, they don't want to deal with this at their age.  At one point I had to turn off my phone. 

My boys came to visit, that was a nice afternoon.  We went for a small hike and had lunch.  We did not discuss much of what was going on, just hung out.  I am working from my new home, contacted a lawyer and just enjoying the quiet.  I have to lot of thinking to do.  I continue to work on myself, am reading a book by a Buddhist monk, some great insight.  No I am not contacting OW ever although I am thinking about her more now than ever before. 

[moonman1]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yes she was "happy" in a marriage that involved putting you down at  every opportunity, to punish you and recompense her for the hurt she felt over your affair.
She put it behind her, in that she was going nowhere. 
You reaped what you sowed.
You thought you could make it better, but she never forgave you.
You can blame her for the "hell of her own making", but you brought the hell into her life and you are doing it again...
Take some responsibility.

Yes affair my fault, 100%.  I also worked on myself after 100%.  Never once looked up OW or contacted her again.  Went to counseling and actually worked on everything we discussed in those meeting, didn't just forget.  And first few months were we were at least companions, but I was the only one working on marriage these last 5 years.  And regardless of affair a marriage is a marriage, both people involved have to work on it at some point.  All I have done these last 5 years is take responsibility, for kids, for home, financially and marriage.  Now I am moving on.  

 

[sandylee1]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Not necessarily true.
As far as she is concerned they have put it all behind them.
She may have been perfectly happy and settled.
Now she is in hell... again...

She was ignoring what was before her eyes. If nothing, she didn't get a job like she said she would. 

I'm not in support of women or men being financially dependent on their spouse forever, which is what she wanted. 

And bringing the affair up all the time isn't putting it behind you.

Yes, the affair was wrong...no doubt about it, but I have little tolerance for the expectation that because you marry a man,  you become a lifelong bill to him.

[sandylee1]

34 minutes ago, moonman1 said:

So these last two days have been interesting.  Since I left my wife has been calling nonstop.  Leaving threatening messages to crying.  I do talk to her once a day but that's it.  My in laws called, they want me to come back.  I have always maintained good relationship with them even when my wife did not maintain any relationship with my family.  I told them I was not ever going back to that marriage.   They are frustrated as well, they don't want to deal with this at their age.  At one point I had to turn off my phone. 

My boys came to visit, that was a nice afternoon.  We went for a small hike and had lunch.  We did not discuss much of what was going on, just hung out.  I am working from my new home, contacted a lawyer and just enjoying the quiet.  I have to lot of thinking to do.  I continue to work on myself, am reading a book by a Buddhist monk, some great insight.  No I am not contacting OW ever although I am thinking about her more now than ever before. 

Your inlaws should stay out of your marriage. 

I think the realisation of what she's losing is hitting her hard. I'd be blocking her once those messages start....she needs to get some therapy for support, not bombard you with threatening messages. 

It all smells if emotional blackmail. 

 

[mark clemson]

Can't bear to be alone and wants her emotional chew-toy back. Charming...

[spiritedaway2003]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Yes she was "happy" in a marriage that involved putting you down at  every opportunity, to punish you and recompense her for the hurt she felt over your affair.
She put it behind her, in that she was going nowhere. 
You reaped what you sowed.
You thought you could make it better, but she never forgave you.
You can blame her for the "hell of her own making", but you brought the hell into her life and you are doing it again...
Take some responsibility.

You are often quite astute in your comments, but I respectfully disagree with you on this point.  The OP has said time and again that the affair was his fault.  He never shifted blame on his wife for his affair.  According to him, he never contacted the OW since and he put 100% back into working on the marriage.   It may be too little too late to save his relationship now, but notice that he's not making the same mistake.  Or at least he's choosing not to. 

He recognized that he needs to end this relationship and go for some IC and work on himself first.  I think he is taking responsibility even if it may not seemed like it in your view.

I understand that the pain of betrayal can last for an indefinite amount of time.  However, if the OP's W did not put forth the effort to truly reconcile, then she shouldn't have taken him back.  She has as much agency to end things after discovering the affair.  She also has every right to end things anytime in the 5 years since that led up to this point. 

Just because the OP screwed up big time once doesn't mean it gives someone else, even a spouse, the right to punish someone emotionally and endlessly.  If she can't, won't or able to forgive him for his transgression, then she should let him go and also free herself from the torment of what he had done.

Yes, it is absolutely true that the affair was unfairly thrusted upon the OP's wife.  When it seemed like they have an opportunity to work things, he gave it his all.  She too has options. She needed to take responsibility too if she truly wanted to work towards rebuilding a relationship.  Maybe they should have gone to MC together?  Either way, using the affair as an ammunition everytime there is an (unrelated) argument is no way for anyone to live.  Everyone has a limit to how much they can take emotionally. 

It simply appeared that the OP had reached that limit, and is choosing to free himself from it now. 

IMHO, being able to find peace and even being alone by oneself is far preferable than to be in a relationship ripe with arguments and discord.

Edited April 10, 2020 by spiritedaway2003

[SummerDreams]

OP I am very happy for you for taking charge of your life again. I wish you all the best.

[healing light]

Very happy to hear you are maintaining a relationship with your children and leaving the toxic soup that was your marriage. From the information you've written here, it sounds like your wife is/was verbally abusive, before and after the affair, and that you've been afraid of telling her your truth for a while now. That your children so readily understood the separation confirms this further in my mind.

Develop some healthy boundaries. Start by limiting your contact with your wife through lawyers to sort through the divorce properly. You aren't her punching bag anymore. I'd seek an equitable distribution of the assets that is also fair to you. I know it would be tempting to throw everything and the kitchen sink at her to get her out of your life, but her lawyers might end up being aggressive anyway. Sounds like you've invested enough of your energy in her and it's time to take back your power like you have been doing and find peace of mind on your own for a while. 

After all this is officially over, I would still throw out a line to the OW if the love you guys experienced was as deep as you say. That's just me; I don't find it easy to replace people emotionally, though. If she rejects you, you'll understand. I don't see what you'd have to lose if you are still consumed with the what if.

Edited April 10, 2020 by healing light

[elaine567]

Do your children know about the affair?
 

[Starswillshine]

It sounds like the best thing to do, even for your wife, is to divorce. 

Affairs turn your world upside down and are extremely hard to get over. I was angry and bitter. I lashed out. I was scared out of my mind. I was a SAHM for a long time, how was I going to support myself and my children? I was TERRIFIED. This came out as anger. It is understandable for a moment, but sooner or later, you (general you, OP's BS) have to move past it. Either decide to divorce or move on from the anger. I choose both options because he was a trigger for my anger. Your wife is no doubt scared and still hurt; obviously she's angry and bitter. Divorce may be the only way she can get past it. 

 

After our separation, I still lashed out in texts. I was angry. So mad. So hurt. But eventually I moved past it. And I am so much happier than I ever was in my marriage with him. Some people like to remain toxic. Some people hate themselves for being that way. Hopefully she will be like the latter and make some changes for herself and your kids. Living that way is awful! No happiness in it.

[elaine567]

7 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

However, if the OP's W did not put forth the effort to truly reconcile, then she shouldn't have taken him back. 

She had no real choice, she was/is a SAHM.
Not easy to get back into the work place after such a long time.
She had been kicked in the teeth by his affair. I guess her self esteem was in her boots.
Sometimes when the going gets tough the tough get going, sometimes when the going gets tough, the weak fold into a heap.
She never got that job, she sat at home building resentment instead. 
By putting the OP down and punishing him she felt  better about the whole situation and herself. 
She did not really take into consideration how the OP felt.
I can see why she is now so upset.
That house of cards she constructed around herself has been blown down, and she doesn't really have much idea of how to survive in the real world.

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

That house of cards she constructed around herself has been blown down, and she doesn't really have much idea of how to survive in the real world.

True, but who's doing is that? She's had plenty of time to actually reconcile as well as build some job skills. She chose passivity and the assumption that their codependence and her cruel form of emotional dominance over her husband would last forever instead.

[Prudence V]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

She had been kicked in the teeth by his affair. I guess her self esteem was in her boots.

The affair was not the start of the problems in the marriage. She wasn’t a wonderful wife before, who was transformed into a harridan through the affair. She was always a problem - enough that OP sought MC before the affair. Yes, he should have dumped her rather than turning to an A for his unhappiness. But his A was the symptom of a toxic M, not the cause. This BW doesn’t qualify for any kind of free pass here. 
 

OP has been the textbook remorseful WS, and she still treats him like rubbish. I think it’s clear where the culpability for the sad state lies, and it’s not with OP. He’s wise to dump this toxic excuse for a wife, and to forge a new life. At least his kids will have one happy home, since it’s clear BW is going to wallow in her toxic stew for as long as she can work it. 
 

And it seems she has problems with entitlement, rather than self esteem. 

[stillafool]

13 hours ago, moonman1 said:

Since I left my wife has been calling nonstop.  Leaving threatening messages to crying.

Why haven't you blocked her from contacting you by now?  You don't need her for the kids as they are 18 and 20 and can reach you on their own.

[sandylee1]

If the house of cards has fallen and she can't survive without the OP, that's her own fault. 

A sensible BW, would go back and do some career training after the affair knowing her WH could up and leave for the OW or another affair could happen. 

She should have been getting herself a career in the last 5 years,  not sitting at home while the kids grow up. She should have been working towards financial independence, so that if the worst happened, she would be able to cope.

 

 

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, sandylee1 said:

She should have been getting herself a career in the last 5 years,  not sitting at home while the kids grow up. She should have been working towards financial independence, so that if the worst happened, she would be able to cope.

Of course she should have, but we don't really know her mental state at the time.
Some betrayed people men and women can take literally years to get over a cheating event, if they ever do...
It is not just "nothing" to them.
 

[moonman1]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Of course she should have, but we don't really know her mental state at the time.
Some betrayed people men and women can take literally years to get over a cheating event, if they ever do...
It is not just "nothing" to them.
 

I never thought cheating was "nothing".  As noted I took responsibility for it 100%.  And I did give years after this to make things better.  Even good companionship would have been okay with me.  As for mental state of mind these last 4 years she went to gym almost daily, had ladies evening with her friends almost weekly, planned vacation every 3 months when I did not have vacation or worried about finances with children coming into college.  We as family visited her parents and had them over frequently.  She redecorated house twice in recent years even knowing that we were pushing it financially.  Luckily I was able to save enough for my kids education but she even wanted to dip into this to redecorate house.  To no friend did she look unhappy these last 4 years. I took on freelance work along with my daytime job on weekend mornings to pay for these because I thought they made her happy.  Yes she could have worked part time doing something, she is healthy.  These last 6 months there was a feeling of suffocation/almost like drowning. 

I had spoken to my therapist about this.   I was starting to get depressed.  Therapist called it situational depression, to either get on medication to deal with this for the rest of my life or to get out of this situation.  I am choosing to get out of this situation at this point. 

She called this morning, wants to come talk to me in person.  I told her no, that I would leave if she came over.  I was not ready to talk about anything and I am not changing my mind. As to why I did not block her yet is that I feel guilty, my sons are still there.  But I am getting there.

[pepperbird]

17 hours ago, moonman1 said:

I never said I cheated because of my wife, only that marriage was not good even before affair.  I have taken full blame for affair, it was wrong and I will never do that again.  At this point I am not going to be looking for another relationship anytime soon or ever.  Regardless I will continue with my individual counseling and will continue to work on myself.  Thank you though, its good to have a reminder that I can only change myself. 

To me, it sounds like you are in a good position when ti comes to this. You are open minded and using a lot of logic. Best of luck to you on your journey.