Am I still engaged?

[Annie Frame]

My fiancee is currently serving his country in Iraq and has been deployed for 5 months... we have been together for five years and engaged for 3 years and recently set a wedding date. His family does not like me and told my fiancee not to marry me (they send him emails daily telling him how much they hate me). I told him I would not tolerate their abuse and disrespect any longer, and would not accompany him to their Thanksgiving celebration until they wrote me letters of apology and promised not to abuse me again. They told me they would never offer me love or respect and would not help with the wedding. I asked my fiancee to defend my honor and not spend Thanksgiving with them, and he said he was not going to abandon his family for "any woman" and the key to getting along with him was in getting along with his family. So, I gave in to him (out of fear of losing him and wanting to make him happy) and told him I would go with him to see his family for Thanksgiving and then he said I was not invited. He has been gone for 5 months, is coming home for two weeks in November, then will be gone for another 6 months. This is the first email he sent me:

 

 

 

Nothing would make me happier for me to be able to spend Thanksgiving with everyone that I love, thats including you princess.

 

I do not see how that should tell me not to go. This is my family that is really needing to see me. I have not seen my Bubby in over 5 years. Furthermore, as soon as they heard their Nephew was visiting from Iraq, my other my Aunt and uncle who live in Tucson decided to host the entire family for a Thanksgiving dinner. I am the guest of honor and many family members a re planning to attend because they want to see me and give me a hug. I cannot refuse this ammount of love and I will reciprocate it as well.

No one said that you were not invited, however, they are not going out of their way to invite you either. I am sad about this and there is nothing I could do about this though. I want you to make the effort to get along with them. I believe you to be the one at fault for them not liking you. You never gave them the chance to like you because you expected them to hate you and you found a way to make that happen. I am going to quote to you something very import my dad has taught me. "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, your probably right." Now another version of this quote could also be, "Whether you think you are right or you think your wrong about something, you are probably correct." People tend to make the things they expect to happen happen without even realizing that they are doing it. That is the point I am trying to make. I think you expected my family to hate you so you made it happen without ev en realizing it.

 

I am sorry you feel this way, and this is one of the many things about you that makes my cry. :'(

 

I wish there was a way I could make you understand my thinking in this, however, I can assure you that I very much would love to spend Thanksgiving with you my princess.

 

As I have mentioned earlier in this e-mail. No one has said you can't go except me, however, if you could understand my thoughts and feelings in this matter, I am willing to reconsider.

 

I promise I would not let them hurt you, this is why I am afraid to let you go. I am only trying to protect you. I wish there was another way.

 

 

I promise you my princess, I will not allow anyone to hurt you, for you are my woman and I love you.

 

I called off the wedding because I lost faith in the hope that it would be a happy marriage. I still love you and that is why I am responding to this e-mail. I don't want you out of my life because I feel I will be losing a part of myself. I am scared to lose you because I do love you, but I do not think things will work between us because we are always fighting and I don't think you and my family will ever get along. Now before you start thinking what your thinking that I will never grow up and break away from my family, I want you to consider this, your life has been very different from mine and you unfortunately did not have a close relationship with your family and that changes a whole lot. You have lost your connection with your family ever since your mother died and now you subconsiously are trying to make me share your pain by making me lose the connection with my family and I will not do that. That is what is driving me away from you. (This is not true... because my mother died and I lost my family, I begged his family to love me and changed to what they wanted me to be just so they would like me).

 

I am sure of one thing, I do love you. However, we have to many problems to make the step toward marriage. You have had 2 children and 20 year marriage. I am 33 years old and never been married and I want a child, my time grows short too. I cannot ask you to give me a child and I cannot change you. This is the hardest thing I ever had to do, but I do have to move on and find someone who can give me a child and make me happy without having to fight me all the time.

 

I know you are hurt and I am extremely sorry for this. I do still love you very much and would still love to spend my R&R leave with you even take you with me to AZ if you would like to spend that time with me as well. Please say yes, for my heart will be truly empty if you say no. I love you.

 

I know this is not the response that you needed, but can you still find it in your heart to want to see me. I love you my princess.

 

He sent this email the following day:

 

 

You are make a very compelling arguement to all the terrible things I have said. I hope you truly understand me now. I do love you and that is why I will give our relationship all the chances I can give it. However, I must have a child. Where does that leave us? I cannot ask you to bear one because it would surely be the death of either all of you (meaning half of me) or at least the death of your livelyhood if you miscarriage. There is too much risk to ask you to do that and I won't do that. At this point, I am entertaining the thought of either adopting or more preferably artificially insemenating a surrogate. I want a child and I wish it could be ours, but from any other source I could still love that child just as much. I hope you agree.

 

I have said terrible things and caused confusion and doubt between us. For this I am extrememly sorry. Will you please forgive me?

 

I love you,

 

What do you think? What does he mean by both of these emails? Is he breaking up with me? Is he staying with me? Is he still going to date other women in the hopes of finding and marrying someone better than me? Or, did his second email mean he was taking back all the terrible things he had said and was back with me? Please help!

[aguest]

I think it sounds like too insecure a relationship for you.

He obviously is confused because he wants children, sounds as though that is also the reason his family dont like you. He clearly loves you and does not want to lose you, but, there are too many battles for this to be a successful marriage.

What are your thoughts on what he has said, would you wish to adopt a child or have a surrogate? If so then, perhaps it would be best to speak to his family yourself and discuss these things with them. Reassure them that you will do everything you can to enable that he can have a child and see what happens.

[quankanne]

sounds like he's looking at all options of making your relationship work, though he does say he's called your wedding off. Are you engaged still? Technically yes, because he's willing to bend over backward to make your relationship work and a future together is still an option.

 

on the other hand, is it fair of you to make certain demands of him regarding his family? my personal thought is no, because you're not some silly little teenager who needs for him to prove his love. If his family has a problem with you, then you need to point-blank tell them that you don't agree with their treatment of you but you are interested in pursuing a civil relationship with them for the sake of your BF/their son-nephew-grandchild-sibling. It's hard enough that he's separated from all of y'all without this infighting, is what I read between the lines of his messages, and you've got the power to at least make changes from your end. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't but in the overall scheme of things, their dislike of you isn't important – making sure that your relationship with him runs smoothly and his relationship with his family runs smoothly, is.

 

it's time to look for a heartfelt compromise if you want to make a life with this man ... you can encourage him to remain as emotionally close to his family as possible without your necessarily liking them, you know? And the way to do that is to kill them with kindness and consideration no matter how much it pains you, because in the end, he will see that you're doing your best, which is all he asks.

[alonzoslefthand]

dont marry a guy that calls you princess...

 

it's just a little creept and condecsending

[RecordProducer]

Annie, I am so sorry you're going through this. It really sounds very painful.

I completely believe you that you did everything to be accepted by his family. By the way, his quote "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, your probably right" actually means that you thought you couldn't gain his family's love and you were right! Not as he presented it. Subconsciously he knew what this quote meant and that's why he used it as a referral. He knew that you would never get along with his family because they didn't accept you a priori.

 

His second email unfortunately doesn't sound serious to me and didn't convince me that his first email was a momentary mood. I think he loves you, but not enough. You've been together for too long. The infatuation has faded away due to your fights, his family's pressure, the age difference...

 

Besides, he is obviously a momma's boy and chose his family over you. He told you that your marriage would never be happy and many other discouraging things (I could almost feel your pain while reading the email). The child ultimatum sounds really ridiculous to me. I think he just wants to please his parents' desire to have a grand-child. You don't discuss such things in an email. It should be a decision made by both of you. If he wants a child of his own then he should be with the mother of the child - to find a woman and marry her first. His proposition sounds sick.

 

If the situation was reverse, a woman could have a baby with a sperm donor and the couple could raise the child as theirs. But I don't think you would accept to raise another woman's child - a child that came while you're in a relationship or married. It's probably his family's idea to make a point that rasing someone else's child sucks so you should understand how it sucks for him to live with your children.

 

It indeed sounds like your marriage wouldn't last because of all the influence from aside. He seems very receptive of what other people think of you. After five years, he should really take you with him for Thanksgiving. He is ashamed of you and blames YOU for that. A man who doesn't have the guts to tell his family "This is my love and don't dare say anything against her!" doesn't truly love you. I know it's hard for you to believe that right now, but with time you will realize it yourself.

 

When my ex-husband and I just split, I was trying to work things out. He was invited by his friends numerous times and didn't want to take me with him (although I almost begged him) because these "friends" of his didn't like me (I was the one who should've been ashamed of him, he was really a big zero and I was "too much" for him). If he really loved me, he would have ditched THEM, not hurt me. And we divorced anyway so you get the picture...

 

I feel for you, hun.

[Annie Frame]

You are so wise RecordProducer... I really truly believe you read his motives, thoughts, and perceptions perfectly... he has not contacted me in so long... I feel very alone and isolated... I have not seen him in 6 months, and he will not return home from Iraq until next May... my brother also shared your sentiments... I am truly sad... I love him so much!

 

I am not going with him to see his family during his R & R in November... I am just too afraid of them... they have written hateful letters to me over the past few weeks, and Brian will not defend my honor... although he asked me to marry him AGAIN, I do not know if I can remain in this relationship... he does not have the moral character I thought he had, and he has no honor. And, no, I already informed him I would not raise another woman's child... I already have two adult children, and do not want another child... let alone another woman's child... I told him if he dated other women or asked me to raise another woman's child, it would be a dealbreaker... having children was not an issue for five years.... in the beginning of our relationship, I told him he could leave if he could not accept my inability to have a child, and he said he loved me and it did not matter... and 6 months later he proposed... then his family pressured him into having a grandchild, and now he is pressuring me again! I do not know how to cope with this situation... I am at a loss here. Thank you everyone for your support, suggestions, and advice.

[Annie Frame]

Brian sent this email to me today... I am heartbroken.

 

 

It is obviously very easy for you to use the deprivation of sex against me which means that you don't like having sex with me. You speak the truth when you tell me things like, "I don't have sex with men that don't love me!" This I truly believe. That is you to the core, but what you are obviously meaning to say, is this, "I don't have sex with men that I don't love!"

 

What I am trying to say is this, every time you threaten me with no sex, I feel like you are telling me you don't love me, which hurts me deeply.

 

I know I would feel differently if you were right beside me. When you are with me, I love you. When you are threatening not to have sex with me from accross 2 oceans, I don't love you, and I don't want to make any rash decisions as a result of this because I know I will eventually regret it, but I am not feeling safe to come to North Carolina right now and I am thinking of going straight to AZ and staying there for the whole R&R leave because I don't feel as though I will have a place to stay if I go there.

 

I love you (I think?)

 

Brian

 

[curiousnycgirl]

I completely agree with what you said - he does not seem to have the moral character you thought he did. I say this because of all his flip flopping, etc.

 

The reality is he may have changed his mind about not wanting kids - and it may now be a deal breaker for both of you (on opposite sides of the fence of course) - truth is that is his right.

 

What is really bothering me is this constant negative communication and no real attempt to actually work things out. If he were truly giving the relationship as many chances as possible - his a$$ would be with you during his leave, regardless of how many family members flew from however far.

 

I am not sure you've told us everything here - for example, what is he referencing in his last note about withholding sex? How can you possibly withhold it if you two are no where near being in the same place?

 

As badly as it will hurt, I strongly urge you to move on with your life and stop letting him play these head games with you.

[Annie Frame]

I completely agree with what you said - he does not seem to have the moral character you thought he did. I say this because of all his flip flopping, etc.

 

The reality is he may have changed his mind about not wanting kids - and it may now be a deal breaker for both of you (on opposite sides of the fence of course) - truth is that is his right.

 

What is really bothering me is this constant negative communication and no real attempt to actually work things out. If he were truly giving the relationship as many chances as possible - his a$$ would be with you during his leave, regardless of how many family members flew from however far.

 

I am not sure you've told us everything here - for example, what is he referencing in his last note about withholding sex? How can you possibly withhold it if you two are no where near being in the same place?

 

As badly as it will hurt, I strongly urge you to move on with your life and stop letting him play these head games with you.

 

Thank you for your response... there was much wisdom in your post... he is referring to an email I sent him yesterday after he told me he did not love me and after he dumped me twice last month... I do not engage in pre-marital sex..., but, on the day he told me of his impending year-long deployment, we had sex (after abstaining from sex for several months)... I gave in, and I was wrong. Anyhow, he expects sex during his R & R leave, and because of my moral values, and because of his family's abuse toward me, and because of his apparent "lack of commitment" and love for me and his stance on his family's attitude toward me, I wrote him an email yesterday informing him that his R & R leave would not be a "booty call," and that I would not have sex with any man who did not love me, protect me, defend my honor, choose me over his mother, or marry me... that the next time I had sex would be on my wedding night to my husband, and he responded to this statement with the above email... sigh.

[RecordProducer]

Hmmm... If he is conservative enough to NOT engage in pre-marital sex then he is probably conservative about marrying a woman with whom he will start a family. An older woman with two grown children and lack of sex kinda don't go together. It sounds like you are the mature one in your relationship, but in my opinion, you can't keep him without giving him sex. Plus you're oceans away so you're basically giving him nothing. Add the family's pressure to that... Too many things are against you in this relationship, Annie.

[Walk]

Whoa... You are all out of your minds!

 

First off, he's in Iraq! What do you think that is, Disney Land?? He's just wandering around waving at people all day?? Holy crap! Get off your sofa for a moment and take a 10 mile forced march with 100lb packs, a 30lb flak jacket, 10lb kevlar helmet and an 8lb M16. You have no understanding of the hardship he has to face on a daily basis.

 

*sigh* Let me just say this. To a man, if you tell him you will not, under any circumstances have sex with him. You might as well have just said I don't love you. Don't you understand?? You could have told him you burned his house down, killed his dog and shaved your head, and he wouldn't care. You tell him that there's no way you will even consider or talk about needs and desires he wants to share with YOU?? You should've just said you hate him and sent him the engagement ring back.

 

Basically, he's going to AZ cause he knows he can get laid there.

 

I'd have a lot more respect for you if you had honestly attempted to understand the stress and hardship that your ex fiance is under. Not only from the Military, seeing people killed around you, being years away from your family and friends, having your family hate the woman you love, and then having the woman who supposedly loves you throw a tantrum. You are a little princess. Spoiled.

 

I hope you can grow up soon. If you had explained that you were leary of having sex again, and told him these were concerns of yours, then I could see calling him an insensitive prick if he emailed back and said screw you. But you didn't. You stated only what you were willing to accept, and what you wanted. You didn't ask his opinion, or his thoughts on the subject. This was all about you. Everything you've posted has been how you want him to bow to your wants and desires. Where have you taken him into consideration?

[Walk]

"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, your probably right" actually means that you thought you couldn't gain his family's love and you were right! Not as he presented it. Subconsciously he knew what this quote meant and that's why he used it as a referral. He knew that you would never get along with his family because they didn't accept you a priori.

 

No. This is military jargon for "how you think affects the outcome."

 

If you believe that you are incapable of succeeding, then you will fail.

If you believe you will succeed, then you will win.

 

It's used every day, by Sgt's to motivate the underlings.

 

Goes toward my, "If she bothered to try to understand her ex fiance, maybe she'd know this."

[sleeplessincnd]

Being in a military relationship myself and having it nearly crumble on me when he was away I had to learn pretty quick that it is NOT all about me. You need to learn that too - and pronto!

 

Think about what you are doing to him while he is away. Do you think that it is fair to constantly be bickering with him and stressing him about stuff like choosing between you and his family.... do you want him to get distracted and end up shot or injured?? Give your head a shake and knock it off.

 

That is why he sent the second e-mail - he wanted to make peace - if only for the duration of his deployment. He wants to stop with this insanity and be able to focus on his job and not have to worry about what you are doing at home when you are pissed off at him!

 

If you want to work it out with him then back off - don't make threats about no sex and just keep things ammicable. You will have plenty of time to work things out face to face when he is home. Emotions run high when you are in the desert and worried about your life every second of the day.

 

Try to understand your man a little better. Know what he is going through and that emotional swings are part of it.

 

It takes a different type of person to be in the military and a very special person to be their spouse. If this is you attitude I am not sure you are cut out for it.

 

My BF is leaving in Feb for 6 months and though I have never met his family I am packing my sh*t and spending Christmas with him out where they are - an area of the country no where near any of my family. But I know that it is important to him to be able to see his family before he leaves. I get that and I am willing to put his needs before my own b/c 1. I love him and 2. I am doing my best to understand what it must be like to be in the middle of forgein country all alone and want to have happy memories to keep you going.

 

Try to cut him a little slack and think about things from his perspective rather than just your own!

[Annie Frame]

You do not know the whole story, and, if you did, you would not be saying these things to me. My life is NOT a fairy tale, and I am not a princess... quite the opposite! It is not fair to judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes, and I do not want to hear anything more about this... I regret posting this message, and my life is my business and kindly mind your own p & q's!

 

Annie

[Annie Frame]

He cheated on me too, and his mother and sister send me emails every day using four letter words and telling me they are not going to stop abusing me and disrespecting me until they break us up... and, my fiance joined two dating services... one while in Iraq... and he physically abuses me too... should I still give him sex (and go against my moral values just because he is a soldier), and should I still cut him a little slack and let him continue to cheat on me, abuse me, and allow his stupid mother and his fat, ugly sister to abuse me too? Like I said before, you do not know the rest of the story, and HE IS NOT GETTING SEX!!!!!!!!!! I am very angry with him, and I do not want to defend my position any longer... now kindly DROP IT!

[sleeplessincnd]

...please post the whole story if you want real advice. The opinions we have expressed are just based on the part of the story you told us. You can't expect to only present part of the story just so you can get the advice you want.

 

That being said... regarless of whether he is a soldier or not you definetly should NOT be with someone who cheats on you and abuses you. You are so much better than that and should set a good example for your children by getting away from him and his abusive family.

 

I wish you luck with this and hope that you can find the courage to do what is best for you.

[MattB]

First of all, if he's man enough to be a soldier in iraq, then he should be man enough to stand up to his family. He sounds like a mama's boy and doesn't want that to change.

 

You said he cheats on you and abuses you....That's intolerable. Walk away. I know you don't want to because you will be letting his family win, but it's not worth it. Feel free to write his mom back and tell her in vivid detail how her son beats you, then block her e-mails.

 

There are plenty of other great guys out there who will actually respect you and treat you right. It's going to be hard, but you need to push through it.

[Walk]

Lady Annie,

 

I'm going to ask a rhetorical question, since you've stated you no longer wish to pursue this matter...

 

You were upset he was dumping you, yet only after having your view challenged do you post proclaiming that he's a beating, cheating, abusive man? If he is, my sincerest hopes and wishes go with you. No one deserves that kind of treatment, and I hope you will do what is right and break it off with him now. Don't consider marrying a man who already causes you so much pain. Don't even bother with the 'no sex', tell him it's over. For your health adn safety, please, please contact a counselor, clergyman, or someone who you can talk to indepth about these issues. As much as you may dislike me, I sincerely do not want to see you hurt, or killed.

 

Aside from the above... What kind of response did you want? After all these people spend their time to respond to you? To attempt to help someone they don't even know? And it seems as if you get one response that isn't exactly the way you decided it should be and suddenly we're asses for posting. Sweet.

 

And no, I haven't walked a mile in your shoes. I've got tougher soles then to need your shoes. Thanks for the waste of time, however amusing it was.

[Annie Frame]

Lady Annie,

 

I'm going to ask a rhetorical question, since you've stated you no longer wish to pursue this matter...

 

You were upset he was dumping you, yet only after having your view challenged do you post proclaiming that he's a beating, cheating, abusive man? If he is, my sincerest hopes and wishes go with you. No one deserves that kind of treatment, and I hope you will do what is right and break it off with him now. Don't consider marrying a man who already causes you so much pain. Don't even bother with the 'no sex', tell him it's over. For your health adn safety, please, please contact a counselor, clergyman, or someone who you can talk to indepth about these issues. As much as you may dislike me, I sincerely do not want to see you hurt, or killed.

 

Aside from the above... What kind of response did you want? After all these people spend their time to respond to you? To attempt to help someone they don't even know? And it seems as if you get one response that isn't exactly the way you decided it should be and suddenly we're asses for posting. Sweet.

 

And no, I haven't walked a mile in your shoes. I've got tougher soles then to need your shoes. Thanks for the waste of time, however amusing it was.

 

Walk:

 

Not about whose soles are tougher... this is about EMPATHY. And, I do not need or want YOUR advice... if you would like to join the I hate Annie club, contact my future mother-in-law for a free trial membership... my life is nightmarish enough without you jumping on the "bash Annie" bandwagon... enough of this! I do not post disrespectful and abusive comments on your threads such as... (calling me a spoiled little princess, telling me my fiance is going to Arizona to get laid, belittling my moral values, questioning my love for my fiance, and telling an abused woman to "grow up" and understand her lying, cheating abuser)... kindly return the favor/gesture/courtesy. For, you, my dear, have wasted MY time. I feel like Cinderella, with one too many ugly stepsisters!

 

And, he only dumped me for a day... it is one of the control games he enjoys playing with me... this is also his third deployment in three years, and he always spends his R & R, leave, and vacation time with Mommy Dearest.

 

Now, with all due respect, take a Walk!

 

Annie

[LexiB]

Why are you so upset that he dumped you?

 

In your own words

 

"He cheated on me...

...his mother and sister send me emails every day using four letter words and telling me they are not going to stop abusing me and disrespecting me until they break us up...

...my fiance joined two dating services... one while in Iraq"

 

 

AND on top of the cheating and disrespect from his family, you said,

 

"... and he physically abuses me too..."

 

 

Call me slow but :confused:

[magda]

I agree, there is something about this guy that sort of creeps me out. I hate how he turns around everything you say, also. "Your family hates me" becomes "you made them hate you". "I'm not going to have sex with you because you clearly do not love me enough" becomes "you do not love me enough or you would have sex with me". That combined with the funny way he has of expressing himself - no wonder you are confused! He doesn't want you near his family, but he'll protect you, but he's not sure if he'll let you come, but he wants you to come to AZ anyway? He seems all gibberish to me.

 

You don't want to marry this guy. He doesn't listen to you! He is listening to his family, or whoever, and pretty much telling you how you are instead of really communicating with you. He sounds really controlling and manipulative. Not to mention kind of weird.