Got a second chance but....

[Boxerhd]

She broke up with me out of the blue. She was hot and cold through out the relationship but always seemed to come around and the sex was great. When I say hot and cold I mean plain evil and then extremely loving. Then one morning she got mad at something trivial and disappeared. 

Later I found out through social media that she was talking to another guy before she left me. At this point there was nothing I could do and we had a few minor civil exchanges and she just told me to let it rest for now. I didn’t bring up that I knew and I let it go. 

About a week later she texted me saying she felt bad about how things ended. I looked and she was no longer following that guy and being that my feelings for her were real I, like an idiot, jumped back it. I hinted that it felt like she had a back up and she admitted that she always had a foot out the door but she wanted to invest in me fully. It was better than before. She told me she loved me etc.

One night I looked to see if she was following him, like an idiot, and sure enough she was back at it. I did call her and confront her calmly and nicely asking what was going on. We didn’t fight. She said he’s a friend and he can introduce her to new people as she dropped all of her friends at one point due to the fact that they abandoned her after a serious car accident. She’s used to a different “lifestyle” which includes operas and fundraisers and I recently restarted my career and started grad school. 

The next morning she sent me a smiley face text and I just told her “hey let’s just be transparent and honest moving forward.” She flipped out. Sent me some long message and blocked me. Then we talked and both apologized and things calmed down for a few hours. I asked her about dinner the next day and she said she would be free a few days from then to which I responded that I feel there is something still wrong. She blocked me.

Later that night, she unblocked me called me and started insulting me to which I just hung up. She blocked me again. I emailed her telling her not to talk to me like that and that I was sorry for hanging up. The next morning she texted me saying she is thankful for having me in her life and if she will always be there for me as well as mentioning that if I ever wanted to do a photoshoot we talked about she’d love to (?) Then blocked me. I’ve been blocked ever since. 

This was last week.

I know she’s probably with that guy since she’s not in the dating site we met on (she was on it before we got together the second time and she made us delete each others profiles). I also assume she’s using him to get what she wants.

My main question is why come back to me? I have nothing she wants that that guy can maybe give her. She cried when she came back around and I have never seen her cry. Can people be that manipulative that they can turn on the waterworks to make a lie like that more believable? It’s not like she’d have a problem getting anyone she wants- she is beautiful. Finally, why say good bye, mention getting together for something trivial, and then totally block me out? 

The snooping was a low. Haven’t even thought about doing that with anyone for over 10 years. Thats the only thing I regret. Everything else I’m proud of. I did everything I knew how to do. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[JacobJ29]

I don't want this to come across as brutal, but I'll say what I think.

You ask her why she comes back to you......it's because you allow her to. She disrespects you and hurts you, but she knows that you'll still be there in the background should it not work out with x.

You being available will mean she will always come back. You are enabling her using and manipulative behavior.

Why don't you block her? Just block, delete, have done with her. She needs to stop being able to get hold of you on a whim, she's quite clearly using everyone she comes across and you are making that incredibly easy because you're available.

Move on and find someone decent who is actually prepared to give you what you deserve. She's trash.

[Rex12]

Hey Boxerhd, this woman is a head wrecking monkey branching drama queen plain & simple. Keeping you on the back burner then calling you up all whilst she's deciding who to choose from.

It's hard. You've got feelings for her but she's played you like a fiddle. Don't beat yourself up over a social media stalk. It's not the end of the world & it's not you who was sniffing around someone else. 

You've been a gentleman; you didn't react to her erratic behaviour. You explained where you were at & what you wanted. You could do no more. 

It is likely the tears were guilt fueled as she knows she treated you badly. Don't be fooled by them. She's blocked you again so there's your answer... for now. Who knows how it will work out with the other guy. Given what you have said, it is entirely possible you haven't heard the last from her. Be on your guard  should that contact come. 

 

 

[Fletch Lives]

Moody, crazy, cheating women aren't worth your time. I would suggest finding a nice girl to date.

[daphne]

Maybe a better question to "why did she.." is to ask yourself "why don't I think I deserve better?"  Take your focus off of her and put it back on you.  

[Boxerhd]

I don’t know. I poured all of my effort in to this one. All the mistakes I learned from in the past relationships and things my grandfather taught me. I have never done the things I did for this woman so easily and without holding back. All that to stoop down to a level of checking a social media page and then confronting her about it. I’m 32yo. It actually makes me feel like I’m back in my teens. 

Now I know, she may have left again anyway. Problem is I was the one that gave her an out and her taking it isn’t something I can argue with. 

I don’t understand why she would leave me a nice “good bye if you want to do this later I’d love to” message and then keep me blocked. I know she’s probably with that guy and I don’t care about that. I think she’s just using him for his resources and she used me for the connection and sex. I don’t believe she’ll come back. Maybe I’m wired differently but if you leave someone blocked it means they stay blocked. I am hurting and I don’t know how to stop thinking about it. I’m doing all the regular things but I think the fact that everything else is going well, is actually keeping me focused on what wasn’t. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Boxerhd]

It also makes me feel like she thinks I broke up it with her. The day before my state went on a Stay at Home order I got her a bunch of things to keep her from having to go to the store as often. She said it felt like I was doing that because something was going to happen between us. She said things like “I just got you back I don’t want to think about not seeing you. It’s going to make me cry.” Then that night when I got home was when I did the snooping thing and to be honest I wasn’t even looking for anything and I wouldn’t have said anything if I didn’t recognize that guy. 

Why did I do that? Who knows. 

[Marc878]

Learn from it but move on. She’s deceitful.

She jumped to another guy it didn’t work out for whatever reason so she cam back to you but it would’ve only been temporary anyway.

block her on everything 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Marc878

[ExpatInItaly]

On 4/1/2020 at 7:24 AM, Boxerhd said:

My main question is why come back to me? I have nothing she wants that that guy can maybe give her. She cried when she came back around and I have never seen her cry. Can people be that manipulative that they can turn on the waterworks to make a lie like that more believable? It’s not like she’d have a problem getting anyone she wants- she is beautiful.  

To answer your questions in the order they appear:

1) She comes back because you're a reliable source of attention. She knows you will respond, and you validate her ego every time. That's all. 

2) Yes, some people can indeed be that manipulative. They can also generally just be emotionally unstable and crying for whatever reason that actually has nothing to do with you, despite what they tell you. 

Forget this woman. You're the filler she turns to when the guy she really wants isn't paying attention to her. There's no future in this for you. 

[Boxerhd]

I understand everything. It still confusing why she would question me about what apps I had on my phone and whether they were dating apps or not. For someone so cold and inconsiderate it seems like a stretch to care about what I’m doing without them when they clearly dont care what they do without me. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Boxerhd

[ExpatInItaly]

It's about her ego. The only reason she cared about dating apps is because it hurts her ego to think you might opt to look elsewhere for a woman. She enjoys knowing you want her and nobody else, even if she doesn't want you. 

It's not about love for you, as a person. 

[Boxerhd]

Can she ever love another person beyond what they can provide of her or will she always jet when she doesn’t see the endgame? 
This is very painful. I don’t know if I should block her or remain there for her while covid is going on. I doubt she’ll reach out since she totally ghosted me but what if she needs something?

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Boxerhd said:

Can she ever love another person beyond what they can provide of her or will she always jet when she doesn’t see the endgame? 
This is very painful. I don’t know if I should block her or remain there for her while covid is going on. I doubt she’ll reach out since she totally ghosted me but what if she needs something?

We can't possibly know. We don't know her. All we know is she's not looking for a future with you. 

And if she's as beautiful as you say, she's got other guys on call if she needs help during this pandemic. Trust me. She doesn't need your help, and you need to drop the White Knight bit. It won't change the ultimate outcome with a woman like this. 

Block her. She's not The One and never was, man. 

[Boxerhd]

36 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

We can't possibly know. We don't know her. All we know is she's not looking for a future with you. 

And if she's as beautiful as you say, she's got other guys on call if she needs help during this pandemic. Trust me. She doesn't need your help, and you need to drop the White Knight bit. It won't change the ultimate outcome with a woman like this. 

Block her. She's not The One and never was, man. 

She did call me and we spent time together better than ever. I don’t believe in the one. I believe that she is confused and doesn’t know what she wants. Otherwise why bother calling me back? I was leaving her alone. 
 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Boxerhd

[Boxerhd]

I know I’m going to wreck my head trying to figure out what it is she’s after. She left it so open ended I don’t know what to think. Yet I’m blocked even after her open ended behavior.

At least I think I’m blocked still. I haven’t heard from her or tried to reach out. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Boxerhd

[preraph]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:24 AM, Boxerhd said:

 She cried when she came back around and I have never seen her cry. Can people be that manipulative that they can turn on the waterworks to make a lie like that more believable?

Oh, God, yes, you poor gullible man. I'm 67 years old and I've seen a lot and the most evil women I've known, straight up sociopathic or narcissistic, or tearfully crying on someone's shoulder all the time in an effort to get people to believe them whether it was about one thing or another. To believe them over someone whose job they were after or whose man they were after or whose the money they were after. and it is surprising how many men fall for it but very few women unless it's their own mother. Men certainly like to believe that they can swoop in and be the hero for these manipulating crybabies, and that's what makes their little world go round.

 

this one sounds like she's networking to get what she wants from different people.

[Boxerhd]

33 minutes ago, preraph said:

Oh, God, yes, you poor gullible man. I'm 67 years old and I've seen a lot and the most evil women I've known, straight up sociopathic or narcissistic, or tearfully crying on someone's shoulder all the time in an effort to get people to believe them whether it was about one thing or another. To believe them over someone whose job they were after or whose man they were after or whose the money they were after. and it is surprising how many men fall for it but very few women unless it's their own mother. Men certainly like to believe that they can swoop in and be the hero for these manipulating crybabies, and that's what makes their little world go round.

 

this one sounds like she's networking to get what she wants from different people.

Definitely. She said that the only reason she became friends with him again is so she can re-establish her social circle. 
I asked her if she realized his intentions and she said “yeah. Clerks at the grocery store want to sleep with me. I’m yours.”

in the back of my head I wondered how I would feel while she goes out and socializes with him on dates and I sit there wondering what she’s doing. Truth be told I wouldn’t care but I am curious whether she would be upfront about it. 
I think that’s why she blocked me. She wants to network and doesn’t want me in the picture while she does. Or forever. Who knows. I just know I would’ve been alright if she was honest and forthcoming. I’m not the jealous type.  

[preraph]

The same women who will cry to manipulate men there's a very good chance they will also use whatever amount of flirting and/or sex to get what they want. Dangling the carrot. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Boxerhd said:

She did call me and we spent time together better than ever. I don’t believe in the one. I believe that she is confused and doesn’t know what she wants. Otherwise why bother calling me back? I was leaving her alone. 
 

It was an expression to say the same thing I said before - there's no future with this woman for you. 

You need to let go of false hope. 

[scooby-philly]

@Boxerhd - Dude, I'm sorry for your pain and your suffering. There's only one thing to google "Borderline Personality Disorder". This will explain so much to you. Now, as a smart, caring person I will caveat - no one on this site is qualified to diagnose someone. Even if they're day job is as a clinical psychiatrist or psychologist, they would need to observe her in real life. But between than and what you can google about psychopaths/sociopaths and how they operate - you can learn a lot to help you process your feeling and move on - which is what you need to do.

To answer your specific questions and the end of your post:

I know she’s probably with that guy since she’s not in the dating site we met on (she was on it before we got together the second time and she made us delete each others profiles). I also assume she’s using him to get what she wants.

• Don't assume. Not saying it's probably not true. But the longer you focus on what she's doing, what she may be up to, who's she with, etc., the longer your recovery will take and the longer she will continue to own your feelings/actions. She's blocked you and been crazy from the get go - block her back so that short of showing up to your house or workplace she cannot come into contact with you. If she does show up, calmly explain that you no longer want to see her or talk to her and then call the police if she refuses to leave the area.
• She doesn't know what she wants - that's the problem. The only thing she wants is attention and to fill the hole(s) at the center of her personality. Normal adults have needs - but we can manage to fill those needs pretty much by ourselves and/or through healthy, normal relationships. Someone with that level of psychosis (again, not committing to a specific diagnosis on here) - they cannot be helped until they reach a point where they want to help themselves, and that only comes after they realize they have a problem. Think about it like an addict with drinking or drugs. They don't know how to survive without the attention, the drama, etc. It could have been caused by a single event or two in their youth or from a entire childhood deprived of some critical factor like love or attention or understanding, or perhaps they were constantly shamed as a child. In the end though, it doesn't matter for you or your recovery.

My main question is why come back to me? I have nothing she wants that that guy can maybe give her. She cried when she came back around and I have never seen her cry.

• Again, she doesn't know what she wants in life other than attention and drama. Most people with BDP or Psychopaths/Sociopaths have little or no empathy. The tears may very well be a behavior she learned to mimic as she saw what it would get her. Again, not trying to diagnose much here but you have to understand - people with this level of problem - the drama, the fighting, it's a drug to them. I would hazard a guess that throughout the relationship she was probably verbally abusive to you - perhaps even comparing you to others and doing so unfavorably. Whatever the specific behaviors were - they're all designed to make you addicted. I dated a psychopath for a year and let me tell you - the behaviors she exhibited (including stuff to damage her belongings) the fake "loyalty" tests, the drama, etc. - everything you've shared about your ex sounds just like mine. Walk away now. She will keep coming back until either she doesn't need you (her life is filled with all of the drama she needs or she finds another person or people to replace you) or until her very distorted ego realizes she can't hook you any more. 

Can people be that manipulative that they can turn on the waterworks to make a lie like that more believable?

• Yes. 100% Seems like it's a thing only kids or teens do. But surprise - adults (of both sexes, let's be fair) can and do lie, fake emotions, and manipulate and take advantage of people, things, situations, emotions all for their betterment. 

It’s not like she’d have a problem getting anyone she wants- she is beautiful.

• That's part of the problem for her. NOT TRYING to be mean here - but have you ever seen an ugly crazy female? I mean, sure, they're out there. But most of the really crazy ones are fairly attractive or better. Part of the problem is them getting too much attention or getting the wrong kind, mixed with other things that make it easy for them to pout their eyes and get what they want. And for your own recovery - remember - until you deal with someone like this there's no shame in having "fallen for her/it". Unless you were a trained mental health professional of some sort (and you didn't get exposed to it as a kid) - it's hard press to understand it until you're in it. And the crazier ones are usually good at the first stage or two of a relationship - so much so that you don't realize there's a problem until there's a PROBLEM.

Finally, why say good bye, mention getting together for something trivial, and then totally block me out? 

• You're asking for rational thought and behavior from someone who's not rational and not emotionally healthy and who doesn't think logically. Again, there's some gaping hole at the center of their personality and the only way they know how to fill that up is with drama. It doesn't even feel unnatural to them. They don't even realize how crazy their words, actions, choices seem to normal people. BUT...they can learn what "normal behavior" looks like and can emulate it at times - hence the confusion. I know with the crazy ex I had years ago, I foolishly paid for a trip back to her home in SE Asia even in the midst of terrible fights and drama and when we fought twice on the trip - she would come back and try to apologize and act all normal because she didn't want certain friends/family members to see the after effects of her craziness. I was literally not talking to her for hours in one city and was laying by the hotel pool for 4-6 hours and she brought her friend and the friends husband by to try and act like we were fine and guilt me into meeting up with them for dinner or a drink. Foolish me went along with it but looking back - she would try and act "nice" to the people she wanted to keep up the false front - everyone else (including the people she dated) - it didn't matter.

The snooping was a low. Haven’t even thought about doing that with anyone for over 10 years. Thats the only thing I regret. Everything else I’m proud of. I did everything I knew how to do. 

• You can only be as good as you are right now in any relationship. The question is - were you your most authentic and best self at the time? If so, you cannot let yourself get stuck in "what-ifs" or "if only I" or "maybe if I didn't (or did) say (or do) x,y,z". Relationships are like two trees coming together to built a root system together. You did the best you could given not only yourself and your qualities/characteristics/strengths/weaknesses, etc. but also given what the other person said, did, etc. And while yeah, most adults don't snoop on a partner unless there's a suspicion (I should say "healthy" and "emotionally mature" adults) - it sounds like you had clear evidence/reasoning to do so. And don't forget - her fake pledges/mandates to have you both delete the dating app. That was all part of her psychosis to make you feel like a bond when in reality she could have gone back on without you knowing.

Overall - don't kick yourself for falling into her trap. Just go through the recovery process and learn what you can to apply in future situations so that, god forbid, you find yourself in a similar situation you realize it quicker and get out a lot quicker.

 

[Boxerhd]

Thank you for that reply. It’s so bizarre to me that people can actually do that. Through out my dating experiences I have witnessed some crazy stuff and I’m not calling her crazy but her behavior was all over the map. 
she kicked me out at 4am Christmas morning because I didn’t take allergy medicine and got a little wheezy from her cat and woke her up. Then she called and apologized. 
she said she’s from “a different world” that includes fundraisers and operas hence the reason she started talking to that guy again. She’d say she can pay off a 150k house in 2 years when she took me house hunting a few times. The day before she left me again she told me a very intimate secret which was that her parents pay her rent. The way we got on that topic was because her mom was acting like a jerk to her and she was going to ghost her until rent is due to teach her a lesson. She was venting.  
All the red flags are there except I’m stuck on the real moments we shared. I feel like I was getting through with her and she even told me she doesn’t need to be fake around me. It was a good feeling. That’s why I’m having such a hard time shaking this. 

[Boxerhd]

Truth is, I’m not even mad at her. I don’t believe that remorse is a good quality to have. I can’t hold a grudge. I really did fall for this one because the little behavioral changes were small to me. I knew it was going to be over and she’ll come around and she always did. That’s another reason I can’t shake this. 

[Beachead]

@Boxerhd

I feel you friend.  I'll just give it to you straight.

On 4/1/2020 at 1:24 AM, Boxerhd said:

My main question is why come back to me?  ..Finally, why say good bye, mention getting together for something trivial, and then totally block me out? 

She's attracted to you..physically.  You also represent familiarity and comfort because you two have a history and she knows you because of that.  So she keeps you around as a safety.  Because she's ditched you in the past and has successfully been able to squeeze her way back in to your life..she knows she can come and go as she pleases without problems.

There are qualities about you and certain things you provide her that she requires..but she doesn't want the full deal.  She doesn't want the work and the commitment that comes with a full relationship with you.  She only wants the parts of it she needs, when she wants it.   Other evidence of this is she doesn't put the necessary work into the relationship.  She just cuts and runs.  Blocks you.  Unblocks you.  Says one thing one day and pulls a 180 on her thoughts the next.  There's no consistency.  Just volatility.  Headaches.  And you being on your toes all the time in an emotional limbo.   

In the end..this just comes down something very simple; if she wanted to be with you, she'd be with you.  She wouldn't be doing this.   You would feel balanced...not as you do right now.   Your pain and frustration is feedback into the fact that she and this relationship is no good for you.  Healthy relationships move forward.  Even when they have to take a step back, they still move forward because both people are ultimately on the same page.  Both people are invested in a future together that they both want to realize, so neither jeopardize it.

Your feelings are your own worst enemy right now because they make you do the exact thing that you shouldn't be doing at this point; they keep you responding to her.  

Quote

Can people be that manipulative that they can turn on the waterworks to make a lie like that more believable?

Yep.

Though giving your ex the benefit of the doubt, I think she has a lack of control over her thoughts/emotions.  This could be attributed to her coping mechanisms which stem from several external factors having to do with her.   But instead of her controlling those thoughts/emotions, its the other way around and her behaviour is at the mercy of that, as a result.  In the end, she is unreliable and liability to your mental-health.  

Either way you slice it, be it she's doing it on purpose..or she's a victim of her brain..it's taking a toll on your mind and your life..correct?  

Quote

The snooping was a low. Haven’t even thought about doing that with anyone for over 10 years. Thats the only thing I regret. 

Take that as a very clear sign that you don't trust her.    Trust his crucial to a successful relationship.  Without it, there is no relationship.   

You're ultimately in charge of your mental-health.  Make sure you take care of yourself and manage that, so that others don't walk in and do it for you.

Stay strong

- Beach

Edited April 2, 2020 by Beachead

[daphne]

23 hours ago, Boxerhd said:

I don’t know. I poured all of my effort in to this one. All the mistakes I learned from in the past relationships and things my grandfather taught me. I have never done the things I did for this woman so easily and without holding back. All that to stoop down to a level of checking a social media page and then confronting her about it.

Google "fallacy of sunk costs."  You invested heavily for someone who will only cause you a lot of pain and bring drama into your life.  Now you are looking for excuses to stay hooked.  It's common.  But recognize that it's toxic and won't yield a healthy relationship.  

Edited April 3, 2020 by daphne

[Lotsgoingon]

You can't shake this because you have a boundless tolerance for chaos and confusion. You can't shake off this woman because you don't have any red lines in your mind about how people should treat you. She walks up to you, slaps ... lies to you ... and then blames you for getting distant or mad ... you apologize for being distant or mad ... she ropes you back in ... She's having a blast ... You're her plaything. 

Just keep in mind: there are very people who are miserable to be with 24/7 7 days a week. The worst people have interesting sides, charismatic and attractive sides to themselves. So you may need to refine you view of bad partners. You may be stuck in a kid-like view that miserable people are like cartoon villains, but ... even the best cartoon villains can have charisma.

Your question is a foolish one. She calls you because her mood changes and she calls ... you get interested and she'll pull away again ... there's nothing deep. Dude, there is no secret good side of her bursting to come out and commit to treating you well. 

Dump her.