death rate in perspective

[Foxhall]

Yes that is true Schlumpy,

and some countries have geographical advantages in terms of containment,

this may explain the low numbers reported in New Zealand.

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, Foxhall said:

this may explain the low numbers reported in New Zealand.

New Zealand employed an elimination strategy, as opposed to a mitigation strategy.

[nospam99]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

Should “COVID-19” be reported on the death certificate only with a confirmed test?
COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is
assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based
on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic
conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part
II. (See attached Guidance for Certifying COVID-19 Deaths)

The phrase ''or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death'' is bolded in the original CDC document which I linked above. So are physicians going to be pressured by administrators to report covid-19 as the Cause of Death whenever an ASSUMPTION can be made? If supplies and equipment being allocated to the hospital or other facility depend on reported covid-19 deaths are the administrators more or less likely to pressure and direct the physicians making the reports? The rest of you may be more trusting, but I have seen that kind of corrupt self-serving behavior on the part of practice administrators for years.

Edited April 11, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Ellener]

I'd imagine the pressures on signing death certificates are more to do with expedience and working under extreme time constraints rather than blatant dishonesty or corruption @nospam99

Especially in areas with huge numbers of cases. The doctors need to tend to the living right now.

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, nospam99 said:

The phrase ''or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death'' is bolded in the original CDC document which I linked above. So are physicians going to be pressured by administrators to report covid-19 as the Cause of Death whenever an ASSUMPTION can be made? If supplies and equipment being allocated to the hospital or other facility depend on reported covid-19 deaths are the administrators more or less likely to pressure and direct the physicians making the reports? The rest of you may be more trusting, but I have seen that kind of corrupt self-serving behavior on the part of practice administrators for years.

I am flabbergasted at the way  you see conspiracy everywhere.

You think at this time, when NY has to burry its deads in common grave, that some mastermind is conspiring to get more equipment! There is a lot of *if* in your conspiration theory, first you don't know how supplies and equipment are allocated to the hospital. 

Medical equipment is sent to hospitals that need them no matter their death rate. The death rate is linked to the type of sick people you get in your hospital. EX: New Orleans death is 70% African-American, that has nothing to do with supply available, it's about 'who' is entering the emergency. If you are a hospital in an area with lots of morbide obesity, poor people that never seek medical care, people with lots of underlying medical condition they don't know as can't afford to see a doctor.... then you'll get more death no matter how well equiped  your hospitals are. 

[elaine567]

Correspondent from NY said today, during the day distancing and masks in evidence but come night, it is party time!!!!

[carhill]

On NYC, reports of excavation and filling of mass graves on Hart Island are now occurring. Hart Island was an old prison for Confederate soldiers that was turned into a cemetary for the indigent and unclaimed after the Civil War. There's over a million bodies buried there, some by themselves and some in mass graves. NYC has shortened the time from death to disposition from 30 days to 14 days after the funeral industry fought their change to six days. Reports vary on identification processes. Prior, families were able to visit the island under escort once a month, no doubt suspended for now. If the funeral industry was fighting the body grab, that tells me they have capacity to offer/sell. It's not like they were overwhelmed and there was no place to put bodies.

OTOH, in my county, there are 12 cases reported, zero deaths and zero reported recovered. County has a bit over 100,000 residents.

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, carhill said:

If the funeral industry was fighting the body grab, that tells me they have capacity to offer/sell. It's not like they were overwhelmed and there was no place to put bodies.

I am located in Canada and it was just reported by our news that your morgues/funeral homes are full and cannot take bodies anymore. 

They also reported that common grave is for the deads they could not identify or no one claimed. Again reported by our news apparently if later on someone comes to claim a body burried on the island it will be possible to dig them out and give them to their family for proper burrial. 

[nospam99]

@gaeta. Live in NY for 65 years and see whether or not you see incompetence and corruption everywhere in state and local government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Silver

Arguably the second most powerful politician in the state until 2015. Convicted of federal corruption charges in 2015 and again on retrial in 2018. But 'for some reason' has not had to report to prison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Skelos
Arguably the third most powerful politician in the state until 2015. Convicted of federal corruption charges in 2015 and again on retrial in 2018. Poor fella actually DID have to report to prison.

Those two are merely 'poster boys', convicted felons the scale of whose powers were statewide. I have personal experience of 'smaller' incompetence and corruption on all levels of government from local to state. And in NY, unless you are a federal prosecutor, there is no one who you can 'blow the whistle' to and be paid attention. Rather there were several cases where potential witnesses were murdered or 'committed suicide' when threatened with arrest.

https://observer.com/2001/02/how-repulsive-fred-andros-sexually-enslaved-lovers/

just scratches the surface of one of the few cases that rose to public awareness, where, again, it took federal law enforcement involvement to expose the crooks.

Edited April 11, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[carhill]

Given the lockdown and realities of people living alone, easy to see how people could die and go unfound/ unidentified for some days. -19 might not even be COD, they just died. AFAIK, NYC still has power and NG/Mil has plenty of experience storing bodies. Katrina taught a bunch of lessons on that. 14 days would push TOD back into late March. Since past practice was 30 days, no rush. Store, identify, notify if possible, process, get the info right. Respect the dead. Plenty of disaster relief available to help with such matters

[schlumpy]

There is corruption present in every human enterprise. The question is how much can we tolerate? We can reduce it but it never goes away as long human beings are in charge.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

There is corruption present in every human enterprise. The question is how much can we tolerate? We can reduce it but it never goes away as long human beings are in charge.

Begins with 'me' doesn't it...as in every individual asking themself thoughtfully- what do I do in this situation? Not just panic and grab or act willfully or spitefully.

Some people do seem to have a high tolerance for 'still looking at themselves in the mirror' ( as my dad used to say ) no matter what they do, yes. 

 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

13 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Correspondent from NY said today, during the day distancing and masks in evidence but come night, it is party time!!!!

What correspondent?   I facetime with friends and relatives there  everyday - tell me that it's more desolate than post 9/11 and I've seen dozens of videos that show it.

[elaine567]

Not sure. but I think I was listening to the BBC at the time.

[schlumpy]

17 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Correspondent from NY said today, during the day distancing and masks in evidence but come night, it is party time!!!!

That's not surprising Elaine. It wouldn't be the first time that "special people" felt they were above the rules for the unwashed masses.

[schlumpy]

16 hours ago, Ellener said:

Begins with 'me' doesn't it...as in every individual asking themself thoughtfully- what do I do in this situation? Not just panic and grab or act willfully or spitefully.

Some people do seem to have a high tolerance for 'still looking at themselves in the mirror' ( as my dad used to say ) no matter what they do, yes. 

It only takes a handful of people to make a good plan go awry and yes it is because they only see themselves in the mirror. You see them when you drive your car and you experience them when they cut into the front of a line. They expect others to modify their behavior to accommodate them.

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, schlumpy said:

It only takes a handful of people to make a good plan go awry and yes it is because they only see themselves in the mirror. You see them when you drive your car and you experience them when they cut into the front of a line. They expect others to modify their behavior to accommodate them.

I think dad meant 'how can you look yourself in the eye' type thing but your metaphor works well too 🔍

 

[schlumpy]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:27 PM, Gaeta said:

I am flabbergasted at the way  you see conspiracy everywhere.

I think there is room for healthy skepticism. Let me give you a small example of things that shake my faith in institutions.

I get a yearly physical. Included in that physical is a PSA test which is used as a red flag for prostate cancer. I've always had low number and easily cleared the red flag number.

This year I was looking over the test results and I noticed that the PSA red flag number had dropped to 1. I was over that number and the doctor never brought it up. I checked back through my records for the last five years and found although my PSA number had not changed, the red flag number had been steadily lowered down to it's current number of one.

I asked my doctor about it and he actually grimaced. He said that medical authorities were concerned that men were not taking the test seriously so they decided to "get their notice" by lowering the red flag number. He told me not to worry about it as my number was very low for my age.

It certainly worked and got my attention, but consider what the side effects are. I can no longer make informed based on the information I am receiving. Instead they will use fear to motivate me. If they are changing the numbers on this test what are doing to the other tests?

It's just a small amount of doubt but it's cumulative.

 

[introverted1]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:25 PM, nospam99 said:

@gaeta. Live in NY for 65 years and see whether or not you see incompetence and corruption everywhere in state and local government.

New York Times just published a pretty scathing report of the incompetence/corruption shown by DeBlasio and Cuomo during the initial covid outbreak: "How Delays and Unheeded Warnings Hindered New York's Virus Fight."

 

 

[schlumpy]

2 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

New York Times just published a pretty scathing report of the incompetence/corruption shown by DeBlasio and Cuomo during the initial covid outbreak: "How Delays and Unheeded Warnings Hindered New York's Virus Fight."

I'm still waiting for just ONE reporter to ask Governor Cuomo during his Virus Updates why New York was so unprepared. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He may have a damn good reason but I think it's a question he needs to be asked.

[nospam99]

I can't post links but folks can google it. With respect to my earlier post about 'assuming' covid-19 to be the Cause of Death, even without a confirmed test, DeBlasio bumped the NYC count by 3778 yesterday. Doubled the NYC death count with the figurative stroke of a pen. I just see more corruption.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, nospam99 said:

I just see more corruption.

You always do!

How are you? Coping ok?

[nospam99]

LOL. Thanks for asking, El. Other than the boredom, I'm doing fine. I didn't ride the subway. Must be a coincidence.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, nospam99 said:

LOL. Thanks for asking, El. Other than the boredom, I'm doing fine. I didn't ride the subway. Must be a coincidence.

And Blasio did! 

I never get bored but I am ready to do some work outside the home now, which will mean moving out as I can't risk giving the other person who lives here any illness I contract...still pondering that one.

 

 

[Juha]

38 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

I can't post links but folks can google it. With respect to my earlier post about 'assuming' covid-19 to be the Cause of Death, even without a confirmed test, DeBlasio bumped the NYC count by 3778 yesterday. Doubled the NYC death count with the figurative stroke of a pen. I just see more corruption.

They get money from the federal government from every Covid 19 death.

 

Not surprising they are trying to tack on as many as they can to get more money