death rate in perspective

[amaysngrace]

My daughter’s plan has a $2000 annual out-of-pocket deductible and she works as a nurse in a hospital. 

Allegedly one of the best healthcare coverages available are those offered to healthcare workers.  Go figure. 

Do you know who gets the best coverage realistically?  Teachers, police and anyone else  paid by taxpayers.  

[NuevoYorko]

14 hours ago, gaius said:

 

If you want even more perspective, it's likely at this point the death toll will exceed 9/11 in New York City alone. And its within the realm of possibility that nationally we may start losing more people to the virus in a single day than we did on 9/11. Every day a 9/11 or close to it, with this stretching on for months. You get the picture.

It has exceeded the death toll of 9/11 since you wrote this.  16,261COVID deaths are projected for NY by August 4.

I'd be pretty surprised to hear people minimizing the impact of 9/11 and the lives that were lost that day by explaining how many more people died in that year due to cancer or whatever.

It baffles me why people regularly post death statistics from various causes, like flu, suicide, car accidents, heart disease and even abortions in these COVID discussions.  Why are they pertinent?  Yes, everyone dies and there are many ways to do it.  Does this somehow mean that we should be just fine with a whole new way to die blazing a path through the world?  I don't think so.  Also, lost on those who keep citing other stats, this is not all about how many die from COVID-19 vs. how many get sick and recover.  The strain on our resources caused  by the way this virus travels among populations is devastating in its own right.

[elaine567]

Two registered frontline nurses  were part of the UK statistics today, one 36, one 38, both had three children.
"Both nurses were put on ventilators but sadly could not be saved..." 

Edited April 3, 2020 by elaine567

[Libby1]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Two registered frontline nurses  were part of the UK statistics today, one 36, one 38, both had three children.
"Both nurses were put on ventilators but sadly could not be saved..." 

I was watching that on the news.  Very sad.  It must be incredibly frustrating and distressing for health professionals when people don't take the virus seriously - though the news was also reporting that the indications are that people in the UK are generally complying with lockdown rules.

[Redhead14]

28 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

 

It baffles me why people regularly post death statistics from various causes, like flu, suicide, car accidents, heart disease and even abortions in these COVID discussions.  Why are they pertinent? 

Mental and emotional minimizing as a comforting/coping mechanism and/or they are brainwashed to view anything that the media puts out as fake or hyped up and want to find anything that would distract from and discredit it.

[Redhead14]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Two registered frontline nurses  were part of the UK statistics today, one 36, one 38, both had three children.
"Both nurses were put on ventilators but sadly could not be saved..." 

That's a young age for two people in one day.  I mean, that age group supposedly fares better when they contract it.  Very sad.  Did they say whether there were some underlying conditions for these women?

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, pepperbird said:

the news is a profit making enterprise.

Why do some of you consistently presume that "fake" news is more marketable than real news?  I understand this perspective in certain situations; here in the USA the president specifically tells his followers which news outlets he approves of and which ones he has deemed "fake," and the purpose is political gain.  If a Democrat president - or, in fact, any president made a concerted effort to promote a specific source of news, I would be extremely suspicious.  It's not a jab at trump.

Otherwise, though, the real news of the day is engrossing enough without needing false stories in order to sell publications, unless the publication is specifically angled to provide outlandish features, to wit the "National Enquirer."   

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

though the news was also reporting that the indications are that people in the UK are generally complying with lockdown rules.

I think you are right but lorry driver on radio who does night runs for supermarkets up and down the country said that he sees no-one out on the streets apart from in London and in the Midlands - both hotpots, but also I suppose areas of high population density too. 

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

That's a young age for two people in one day.  I mean, that age group supposedly fares better when they contract it.  Very sad.  Did they say whether there were some underlying conditions for these women?

Seems in Italy many frontline young staff died too, before they got the proper PPE sorted out 
Some suggest they get huge viral loads that they cannot overcome.
Yesterday out of 569 deaths, 44 had no underlying disease.
 

[mark clemson]

13 hours ago, Juha said:

If you really wanted to know what was going on you would not depend on the news or major media outlets...

I don't entirely disagree with the point you're making, but - where exactly would you get reasonably accurate information?

Edited April 3, 2020 by mark clemson
added first clause

[simpycurious]

22 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Seems in Italy many frontline young staff died too, before they got the proper PPE sorted out 
Some suggest they get huge viral loads that they cannot overcome.
Yesterday out of 569 deaths, 44 had no underlying disease.
 

Elaine, the deaths are what really speak volumes to me.  Someone told me recently that things will get REAL when someone you know contracts the virus and when someone you know dies from the virus.  I think that is a true statement. Tell someone YOU LOVE THEM (not randomly of course) but someone in your family or whatever. 

[Gaeta]

In my immediate family I have 2 young nephews paramedic, 1 young nurse, and 1 doctor 6 months pregnant who's still working emergency rooms. I think about them all the time. We begged my brother's wife (doctor) who's pregnant to go on maternity leave asap but she won't hear a thing. 

[schlumpy]

5 hours ago, Gaeta said:

 Do you know 40% of Americans do not seek medical care because they are afraid of how much it will cost and this even with insurance as their premium often will run in the 5 digits.

That's not true Gaeta. When President Obama signed the ACA it solved all of our health problems in the US. I was promised that I could keep my doctor and that medical insurance would now cost me $2500.00 less a year. I don't know what you are looking at. I believe my government and I know that President Obama would never lie to me. 

[Beendaredonedat]

Just now, schlumpy said:

That's not true Gaeta. When President Obama signed the ACA it solved all of our health problems in the US. I was promised that I could keep my doctor and that medical insurance would now cost me $2500.00 less a year. I don't know what you are looking at. I believe my government and I know that President Obama would never lie to me. 

How much of the ACA did Trump dismantle, if any though or is it still in affect in its entirety?  

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Why do some of you consistently presume that "fake" news is more marketable than real news?  I understand this perspective in certain situations; here in the USA the president specifically tells his followers which news outlets he approves of and which ones he has deemed "fake," and the purpose is political gain.  If a Democrat president - or, in fact, any president made a concerted effort to promote a specific source of news, I would be extremely suspicious.  It's not a jab at trump.

Otherwise, though, the real news of the day is engrossing enough without needing false stories in order to sell publications, unless the publication is specifically angled to provide outlandish features, to wit the "National Enquirer."   

of course they are engaging in clcikbait etc. These are profit making companies, not public services!

this is an example: The CBC headline: "As COVID-19 rips through nursing homes, some tell loved ones there's 'no benefit' to sending ill to hospital" sounds really upsetting. But when one reads the article,. one finds what's really going on is that the decision will be based on several factors . This is the actual quote from the article "

"While most mild and moderate illnesses should be treated at the facility, Dr. Deena Hinshaw says, the severely ill won't be denied treatment.

"It all really depends on the individual. How ill they are. What care they need. What can be provided in that location, and what they may wish to happen in terms of more intensive treatment.""

The headline and lede are clickbait, they don't tell the whole story and plays on people's fears . The truth is that people who can be.cared for in a long term medical care facility, but they may be moved if it's felt it's for the best. 

 

[schlumpy]

1 minute ago, Beendaredonedat said:

How much of the ACA did Trump dismantle, if any though or is it still in affect in its entirety?  

Ever since John McCain decided not to be the deciding vote on getting rid of the ACA, I don't know how much has been dismantled if any. My wife just got a letter six months ago stating that her insurance would rise by eighty dollars a month to comply with the ACA and it did.

So, if the ACA can force my wife to pay an extra eighty bucks, I for one, would say that it is still ruling the roost.

[Beendaredonedat]

Are you happy with ACA or would you rather have Trump's deal?  Just curious.  P.S.  I loved McCain.  A man of principals.

[mark clemson]

Why is anyone still talking about Obama lying, when we have Trump? He's been quite the waffler on COVID, just doing it slowly. Here's a rundown - enjoy!

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-statements-about-the-coronavirus/

[Tamfana]

What's Trump's deal?  I don't think there is one, is there?

[Gaeta]

Trump's deal was to cancel Obamacare and go back to 44  million Americans with no health coverage. The latest numbers from 2017 states 27 million Americans are now without coverage. Coverage has also different meaning. You can pick basic coverage or the cadillac of coverage, depending of what you can afford. 

[schlumpy]

49 minutes ago, Beendaredonedat said:

Are you happy with ACA or would you rather have Trump's deal?  Just curious.  P.S.  I loved McCain.  A man of principals.

I would rather it return back to what I had before the ACA. If that policy had been enforced my gall bladder surgery would have cost me around two thousand dollars instead of the 10k it turned out to be. I had a real insurance police before the ACA. The ACA turned my health insurance into a catastrophic policy that anyone could have picked up for a low price before the ACA. I no longer have to worry about that now since the government forced me on Medicare which has it's on very real problems. 

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

of course they are engaging in clcikbait etc. These are profit making companies, not public services!
 

 

There is also such a thing as journalism, which is traditionally what news outlets have relied upon to sell their publications.   It doesn't need to be fiction to sell.

I have come to understand that, generally, those who are constantly conjecturing about or promoting the idea of FAKE NEWS are heavily invested in only believing what confirms their bias, or swaying others to disbelieve any sources other than those recommended by a given entity.  

We live in a time when entertainment figures are revered by a large segment of the population, so reality tv personalities, shock jocks on the radio, talk show hosts, etc. are deemed credible and all real journalism is deemed FAKE.  People seem very happy to be told what to believe and not look into it; conveniently all fact checking sources have also been labled FAKE so those prone to follow this trend don't bother with that.  

I'd be interested in reading the article you paraphrased, can you link?  The headline you quoted says "some tell loved ones ..." and the way you paraphrase the article says exactly the same thing, only in more depth.

[Beendaredonedat]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

I would rather it return back to what I had before the ACA. If that policy had been enforced my gall bladder surgery would have cost me around two thousand dollars instead of the 10k it turned out to be. I had a real insurance police before the ACA. The ACA turned my health insurance into a catastrophic policy that anyone could have picked up for a low price before the ACA. I no longer have to worry about that now since the government forced me on Medicare which has it's on very real problems. 

Wow.  So sorry, $10,000!  It cost me nothing to have my gall bladder removed but the crazy high sales taxes (13%) Goods and Services tax and the sky high sales tax on booze  and cigarettes that we pay.  Our lotteries also help with our universal hospital/doctor/surgery costs.  We still have to have personal medical insurance for drugs, dentist, chiropractic wherein most copays are about 20% and the insurance covers 80%.   

 

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Tamfana said:

What's Trump's deal?  I don't think there is one, is there?

It's OT, but narcissistic personality disorder would be my take. Unlike many, he's been able to leverage it to get where he is.

He also seems to have a CEO's mindset but coupled with an oddball personality, so he does things like act dignified (when not triggered) e.g. at press briefings, but then when he's feeling comfortable spew random tweets with his immediate thoughts or hug the american flag. I can't tell if the hugging the flag was sincere or done for the cameras, but either way it's beneath the dignity of the office. A LOT of the stuff he does when feeling comfortable is beneath the dignity of the office. He clearly hasn't had feedback on his behavior from anyone who matters to him in decades. He just does what he feels like and smiles about it. He's actually very much in his own little world in some ways.

IMO he's definitely unfit to be President, but then again, no human is REALLY fit for that, there's too much info, too many decisions whose outcomes can't be foretold, etc. Luckily they have lots of analysts and a cabinet to advise them, which tends to help.

[Tamfana]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Trump's deal was to cancel Obamacare and go back to 44  million Americans with no health coverage. The latest numbers from 2017 states 27 million Americans are now without coverage. Coverage has also different meaning. You can pick basic coverage or the cadillac of coverage, depending of what you can afford. 

Okay, yeah... that's what I thought.