Politics and COVID-19

[Tamfana]

Trump and Fox have repeatedly been proven to be deniers and liars, lying about the accuracy of others’ reporting too in order to confuse, inflame and deflect responsibility.  Trump and Fox loyalists believe them and what they say.  No one can do anything about it anymore.  

Edited April 5, 2020 by Tamfana

[Marc878]

25 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

Trump and Fox have repeatedly been proven to be deniers and liars, lying about the accuracy of others’ reporting too in order to confuse, inflame and deflect responsibility.  Trump and Fox loyalists believe them and what they say.  No one can do anything about it anymore.  

Not really. CNN is even getting criticized by other liberal media now. Wrong way Rachel has lost much share (mueller, taxes, etc all turned out empty). They’ve cried wolf too many times. Lost much credibility. 
 

ratings drop are catastrophic 

[Tamfana]

1 hour ago, Marc878 said:

Not really. CNN is even getting criticized by other liberal media now. Wrong way Rachel has lost much share (mueller, taxes, etc all turned out empty). They’ve cried wolf too many times. Lost much credibility. 
 

ratings drop are catastrophic 

Believe what Trump and Fox personalities tell you if you want. Fox has been deliberately false in re COVI-19. 

It is odd that the faction of this country that believes that everyone lies, there are two sides to facts and data, and that money motivates humanity don't apply that belief to Fox. 

Even hardliners Liz Cheney and Tom Cotton have spoken up. Maybe they're smarter and don't care about Trump as much as the economy- unlike Fox personalities and the Trump admin.  

[Gr8fuln2020]

7 hours ago, Marc878 said:

Not really. CNN is even getting criticized by other liberal media now. Wrong way Rachel has lost much share (mueller, taxes, etc all turned out empty). They’ve cried wolf too many times. Lost much credibility. 
 

ratings drop are catastrophic 

You must be a FOXNEWS fan. They have been, from the beginning criticized for their deceptive (putting it kindly) news. But that doesn't stop you from watching it, does it? The Trump administration has been lying, down-playing, deceiving the public from the start. Do you watch ANY of his LIVE interviews? LIVE televised comments? LIVE tweets? If you do and still believe what you do...well....typical. 

[Marc878]

7 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

You must be a FOXNEWS fan. They have been, from the beginning criticized for their deceptive (putting it kindly) news. But that doesn't stop you from watching it, does it? The Trump administration has been lying, down-playing, deceiving the public from the start. Do you watch ANY of his LIVE interviews? LIVE televised comments? LIVE tweets? If you do and still believe what you do...well....typical. 

The opposite is typical as well isn’t it. Basically sore losers. 

[Gr8fuln2020]

11 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

The opposite is typical as well isn’t it. Basically sore losers. 

If you mean by sore losers, watching our checks and balances fail because an entire party has been allowing the POTUS do, say whatever he wants, sure. If you are comforted by simply winning or losing and not at all interested in people who minimize the importance of the constitution, our laws, common decency, then your side won.  He wasn't found innocent. He was not found guilty...big difference and remember, there was no opportunity to bring forth the evidence to do so. Can you imagine? Even with the 'pre-determined' threat of partiality, the GOP wouldn't allow key witness to come testify. Did you pay attention to the impeachment and 'trial' at all??? This president is immoral, a liar, egomaniac, incredibly uninformed, etc. We ALL see it every day, but some of us simply dismiss it or embrace it because he epitomizes the person they are....you are not concerned that the next leadership, not of your liking, will not use the same deceptive tactics to the extent used to garner blind support? You don't care about the truth? Nepotism? Taking financial advantage of the position for personal gain, ridiculing anyone who disagrees? I care. Many, most Americans do...I don't know if you are christian or not, but don't you care if your leader at all embodies any characteristics that are normally deemed virtuous, admirable, or honorable? Never mind, christian values, decent, human values....

Edited April 6, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020

[Marc878]

32 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

If you mean by sore losers, watching our checks and balances fail because an entire party has been allowing the POTUS do, say whatever he wants, sure. If you are comforted by simply winning or losing and not at all interested in people who minimize the importance of the constitution, our laws, common decency, then your side won.  He wasn't found innocent. He was not found guilty...big difference and remember, there was no opportunity to bring forth the evidence to do so. Can you imagine? Even with the 'pre-determined' threat of partiality, the GOP wouldn't allow key witness to come testify. Did you pay attention to the impeachment and 'trial' at all??? This president is immoral, a liar, egomaniac, incredibly uninformed, etc. We ALL see it every day, but some of us simply dismiss it or embrace it because he epitomizes the person they are....you are not concerned that the next leadership, not of your liking, will not use the same deceptive tactics to the extent used to garner blind support? You don't care about the truth? Nepotism? Taking financial advantage of the position for personal gain, ridiculing anyone who disagrees? I care. Many, most Americans do...I don't know if you are christian or not, but don't you care if your leader at all embodies any characteristics that are normally deemed virtuous, admirable, or honorable? Never mind, christian values, decent, human values....

Nope, the middle class who were ignored before support Trump. That’s how he beat Hilarys brains out.

Reflect back. She can’t lose!!!!! Um, yep she did. 

It was the Russians, nope. Wait his taxes, nope. Ukraine!!!!! Um, nope that didn’t work either except expose corruption at the highest levels of the Democratic Party. He’ll beat Biden’s brains out with that. If Biden gets by this current sexual harassment issue.

The left is floundering badly. Biden is all they could come up with?

[Tamfana]

48 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

The opposite is typical as well isn’t it. Basically sore losers. 

There’s no arm-wrestling win-lose issue here.  

The point is, Trump and Fox deliberately gave false information.  It’s indisputable because it’s all on tape.  Trump and major Fox personalities lied to their followers and viewers, and Fox has the largest cable news viewership in the country! 

Disinformation is not a win for anyone.  It's a con, or attempted con, on everyone.  It harms.  

[schlumpy]

44 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

I don't know if you are christian or not, but don't you care if your leader at all embodies any characteristics that are normally deemed virtuous, admirable, or honorable? Never mind, christian values, decent, human values....

Like most blind partisans you speak in generalities and call forth American values that you will not name.

Lets take one thing that President Trump has done and that is donate his salary to charities and other government organizations. It is my understanding he is unique among all of our presidents to have done that. The man is working without compensation. Is that at last one redeeming quality? Does that not indicate a deep respect for the office and the American people or will you hold true to your religious fervor that he is the most vile man that has ever walked the planet? 

[Marc878]

23 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

There’s no arm-wrestling win-lose issue here.  

The point is, Trump and Fox deliberately gave false information.  It’s indisputable because it’s all on tape.  Trump and major Fox personalities lied to their followers and viewers, and Fox has the largest cable news viewership in the country! 

Disinformation is not a win for anyone.  It's a con, or attempted con, on everyone.  It harms.  

Not what everyone else is seeing. Opinions don’t count for much.

[Gr8fuln2020]

55 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

Nope, the middle class who were ignored before support Trump. That’s how he beat Hilarys brains out.

Reflect back. She can’t lose!!!!! Um, yep she did. 

It was the Russians, nope. Wait his taxes, nope. Ukraine!!!!! Um, nope that didn’t work either except expose corruption at the highest levels of the Democratic Party. He’ll beat Biden’s brains out with that. If Biden gets by this current sexual harassment issue.

The left is floundering badly. Biden is all they could come up with?

3+ million more people voted for Hillary. Trump has completely abandoned the middle class for the rich and corporate world. Himself. 

People were definitely shocked that a immoral, corrupt, deviant such as Trump could win. That tells you a lot about the people voted for him. Including 70%+ of evangelical right...yup, says a lot about many of the voters who voted for this guy. Not too concerned Hillary lost, personally. 

Russians are very comfortable with Trump. The Mueller report does not exonerate him. You should try to read a little or lot more about it. Hopefully a non-redacted version of the report will come out. 

His taxes? You do know that he hasn't revealed them, right?????

Ha ha ha....if Biden is guilty. Get him too...sexual harassment!?!?!? You do know about our POTUS? Don't you? 

I admit, the left is not taking advantage of this situation, but we don't need the LEFT. We need good people. Trump is an international embarrassment. Incompetent. Bully. I'm confused, are you trying to support your immoral POTUS. You keep coming up with things that equally, more so, apply to your leader ALONE. 

Biden? Dude, it's politics. We rarely have the BEST people among us representing us. Trump is a prime example of fundamental mediocrity at its best and he was voted in. Do you know that Trump said decades ago that if he'd ever run, he'd run as  GOP? Do you know why? Think along the lines of most gullible and impressionable electorate.... not saying it's true, but he believed it. 

Give it up. You adore this man and you have no idea why. OR....you admire characteristics about him that reflect the kind of human being you are. 🙄

[Gr8fuln2020]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

Like most blind partisans you speak in generalities and call forth American values that you will not name.

Lets take one thing that President Trump has done and that is donate his salary to charities and other government organizations. It is my understanding he is unique among all of our presidents to have done that. The man is working without compensation. Is that at last one redeeming quality? Does that not indicate a deep respect for the office and the American people or will you hold true to your religious fervor that he is the most vile man that has ever walked the planet? 

Ha ha ha ha...a billionaire, who has been taking advantage of his position to enrich himself, his hotels, resorts, golf courses...you need to read more. The POTUS salary is $400,000 year. How much do you think his investments, family members have made while in office. Come on, man! Do some reading. 

I have to add...your use of the word 'partisan' is interesting. Much more interesting is that my response was to christian values, decent values and your response was him donating his salary, but absolutely no mention of the innumerable immoral, insensitive, deceptive, behaviors. How is that possible?

Edited April 6, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020

[Marc878]

25 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

3+ million more people voted for Hillary. Trump has completely abandoned the middle class for the rich and corporate world. Himself. 

People were definitely shocked that a immoral, corrupt, deviant such as Trump could win. That tells you a lot about the people voted for him. Including 70%+ of evangelical right...yup, says a lot about many of the voters who voted for this guy. Not too concerned Hillary lost, personally. 

Russians are very comfortable with Trump. The Mueller report does not exonerate him. You should try to read a little or lot more about it. Hopefully a non-redacted version of the report will come out. 

His taxes? You do know that he hasn't revealed them, right?????

Ha ha ha....if Biden is guilty. Get him too...sexual harassment!?!?!? You do know about our POTUS? Don't you? 

I admit, the left is not taking advantage of this situation, but we don't need the LEFT. We need good people. Trump is an international embarrassment. Incompetent. Bully. I'm confused, are you trying to support your immoral POTUS. You keep coming up with things that equally, more so, apply to your leader ALONE. 

Biden? Dude, it's politics. We rarely have the BEST people among us representing us. Trump is a prime example of fundamental mediocrity at its best and he was voted in. Do you know that Trump said decades ago that if he'd ever run, he'd run as  GOP? Do you know why? Think along the lines of most gullible and impressionable electorate.... not saying it's true, but he believed it. 

Give it up. You adore this man and you have no idea why. OR....you admire characteristics about him that reflect the kind of human being you are. 🙄

Nope, he draws crowds like no other. The middle class is what got him elected. 
Grasping at straws won’t change much.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Just now, Marc878 said:

Nope, he draws crowds like no other. The middle class is what got him elected. 
Grasping at straws won’t change much.

Dude, not arguing that the middle class didn't get him there. He's abandoning them like every one else he doesn't give a lick about. Grasping at some really HUGH AND THICK straws my friend. You really should take some time to read what is really going on. Go back from day one of his campaign and ask yourself what this man is really about....again, he could be a reflection of yourself and your own possible disdain for your fellow man, so the activity would be meaningless. The man is corrupt. You know he is. That's probably what you like about him. That's okay. Just admit it. 

[Marc878]

2 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Dude, not arguing that the middle class didn't get him there. He's abandoning them like every one else he doesn't give a lick about. Grasping at some really HUGH AND THICK straws my friend. You really should take some time to read what is really going on. Go back from day one of his campaign and ask yourself what this man is really about....again, he could be a reflection of yourself and your own possible disdain for your fellow man, so the activity would be meaningless. The man is corrupt. You know he is. That's probably what you like about him. That's okay. Just admit it. 

I have. Until the virus hit. Lowest unemployment in 50 years, income up 3% across the board, etc, etc. No one better to lead out of this virus mess. 

[Gr8fuln2020]

9 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

I have. Until the virus hit. Lowest unemployment in 50 years, income up 3% across the board, etc, etc. No one better to lead out of this virus mess. 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha....not a single piece of legislation of directive of the president has led to this incredible economic boom. He is riding what he inherited. Give him credit for not effing it up, though he tried by trade wars with China, and other countries, hurting our farmers. Read about that. Most jobs are low wage. Destroying healthcare and doing nothing to improve upon that. Remember his promise to have an amazing healthcare for all? No. You should go read. 

Dude. You have been following his lead into this virus mess, right? You do know he was calling it a hoax, right? You do know he was telling on LIVE TV, that everything was under control. That you can just recover by going to work. He has no idea what he is doing. Now that things are so bad, people with better sense are pushing him to make decisions that he never would have thought of contemplating. The CDC is your friend, not the POTUS. Just one example of many, please read the news, he recently informed the country that the CDC has recommended masks...you do know what he said, right? Leadership my butt... 

I will give you this, as he is given less time to speak, we are better off. Let the professionals, the people who know what needs to be done, do the talking. 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

We need good people.

Yes, come out come out wherever you are...!

Maybe the next generation came make more sense of the world.

[Gr8fuln2020]

3 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Yes, come out come out wherever you are...!

Maybe the next generation came make more sense of the world.

All the 'good' people are too busy trying to make it work in this increasingly difficult times. Always has been. The rich and connected are the ones who typically have time to run and not worry about mortgages, health insurance, paying the bills. 

[Marc878]

17 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha....not a single piece of legislation of directive of the president has led to this incredible economic boom. He is riding what he inherited. Give him credit for not effing it up, though he tried by trade wars with China, and other countries, hurting our farmers. Read about that. Most jobs are low wage. Destroying healthcare and doing nothing to improve upon that. Remember his promise to have an amazing healthcare for all? No. You should go read. 

Dude. You have been following his lead into this virus mess, right? You do know he was calling it a hoax, right? You do know he was telling on LIVE TV, that everything was under control. That you can just recover by going to work. He has no idea what he is doing. Now that things are so bad, people with better sense are pushing him to make decisions that he never would have thought of contemplating. The CDC is your friend, not the POTUS. Just one example of many, please read the news, he recently informed the country that the CDC has recommended masks...you do know what he said, right? Leadership my butt... 

I will give you this, as he is given less time to speak, we are better off. Let the professionals, the people who know what needs to be done, do the talking. 

Nope, Obama was 8 years of hope with zero change, Hilary was just going to be a continuation that’s why she was rejected. As far as healthcare Obamacare was a total disaster. No one liked it but it’s still in place. So why complain? 

[Gr8fuln2020]

1 minute ago, Marc878 said:

Nope, Obama was 8 years of hope with zero change, Hilary was just going to be a continuation that’s why she was rejected. As far as healthcare Obamacare was a total disaster. No one liked it but it’s still in place. So why complain? 

Again. You have not been reading. It was the Obama administration that brought this country out of one of the most disastrous economic collapses in history. Dude, for you to completely ignore the economic advances that occurred during his administration up into Trump's is abject denial or negligence. Obama actually passed laws to stimulate and recover our economy. Trump hasn't done squat. Man...you cannot be serious how little you know. 

Who knows what Hillary was going to do. She would have likely enjoyed the same benefits Trump is by doing nothing or very little. At least we wouldn't have over a TRILLION dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Do you think?

Obamacare was not a resounding success for sure. But it was a foundation for something that could have been improved. Here's a piece of information for you, MOST people actually supported it. It was meant to help the MILLIONS of working Americans who couldn't afford insurance. Again, not perfect, but many people relied and rely on it BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE DOESN'T WORK. This administration and the GOP have been promising an alternative plan for years, many years. Where is it? Nowhere. They have been dismantling it little by little. WITH NO ALTERNATIVE. Why aren't you concerned about that? Why aren't you concerned about the millions of Americans who cannot afford health insurance and having no alternative to the AHCA aka Obamacare that tried to protect consumers from being denied because of immoral 'previous condition' clauses, inadequate services, etc. ? What has the GOP and your amazing Trump offered? I think we can agree...our president and politicians have the greatest healthcare coverage on earth. Arguably. Why can't we all have that? Or something like that? 

[Marc878]

36 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Again. You have not been reading. It was the Obama administration that brought this country out of one of the most disastrous economic collapses in history. Dude, for you to completely ignore the economic advances that occurred during his administration up into Trump's is abject denial or negligence. Obama actually passed laws to stimulate and recover our economy. Trump hasn't done squat. Man...you cannot be serious how little you know. 

Who knows what Hillary was going to do. She would have likely enjoyed the same benefits Trump is by doing nothing or very little. At least we wouldn't have over a TRILLION dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Do you think?

Obamacare was not a resounding success for sure. But it was a foundation for something that could have been improved. Here's a piece of information for you, MOST people actually supported it. It was meant to help the MILLIONS of working Americans who couldn't afford insurance. Again, not perfect, but many people relied and rely on it BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE DOESN'T WORK. This administration and the GOP have been promising an alternative plan for years, many years. Where is it? Nowhere. They have been dismantling it little by little. WITH NO ALTERNATIVE. Why aren't you concerned about that? Why aren't you concerned about the millions of Americans who cannot afford health insurance and having no alternative to the AHCA aka Obamacare that tried to protect consumers from being denied because of immoral 'previous condition' clauses, inadequate services, etc. ? What has the GOP and your amazing Trump offered? I think we can agree...our president and politicians have the greatest healthcare coverage on earth. Arguably. Why can't we all have that? Or something like that? 

Your opinion means very little. Like everyone else’s. It’s the cumulative that counts. 
Look back at the consensus/opinions before 2016. Totally wrong, even the polls were off.

We’ll see in November. 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

7 hours ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Again. You have not been reading. It was the Obama administration that brought this country out of one of the most disastrous economic collapses in history. Dude, for you to completely ignore the economic advances that occurred during his administration up into Trump's is abject denial or negligence. Obama actually passed laws to stimulate and recover our economy. Trump hasn't done squat. Man...you cannot be serious how little you know. 

 

Everyone knows it was the reduction in corporate taxes, by Trump,  which has inspired the roaring economy through much of the current presidency.

That combined with the reduction in personal income taxes by Trump, not Obama, is what allowed everyday Americans to ride some of the wave in that.

 

Obama's only potentially-lasting contribution is mocked as "Obamacare" and the jury remains out on that one.

 

Obama had us choking at the gas pumps through much of his tenure with the price of oil more than double what it had been when he took over, for much of those years.

 

Presently, the price of oil is half what it was when Trump was elected.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed non productive part

[Ellener]

Gabrielle Giffords wrote this earlier this week https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/03/gabrielle-giffords-how-cope-fear-coronavirus-pandemic/5109791002/ on coming back from seemingly impossible challenges.

'I know the power of Americans standing together — not just to endure the coronavirus pandemic, but to emerge from it stronger.'

It's we the people who achieve things, individually and collectively, 'politics' is defined as 'the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power,' well this hoping to achieve power has gone too far, undermined and polarised the concept of fidelity to mere petty argument.

[Gr8fuln2020]

6 hours ago, Marc878 said:

Your opinion means very little. Like everyone else’s. It’s the cumulative that counts. 
Look back at the consensus/opinions before 2016. Totally wrong, even the polls were off.

We’ll see in November. 

Hmmmm....ok. 🙄

[Gr8fuln2020]

5 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

LOL - hard to imagine what you're thinking...   

Everyone knows it was the reduction in corporate taxes, by Trump,  which has inspired the roaring economy through much of the current presidency.

That combined with the reduction in personal income taxes by Trump, not Obama, is what allowed everyday Americans to ride some of the wave in that.

Obama's only potentially-lasting contribution is mocked as "Obamacare" and the jury remains out on that one.

Obama had us choking at the gas pumps through much of his tenure with the price of oil more than double what it had been when he took over, for much of those years.

Presently, the price of oil is half what it was when Trump was elected.

It is rather amusing how little you know, Gr8fuln2020.

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to address these statements...I, too wonder what it is you are thinking...

1. The reduction in corporate taxes mostly inspired corporations to buy back their own stocks and the reinvestment has been exaggerated. In fact, far less reinvestment occurred because of the corporate tax cuts which are permanent right now, but income tax breaks for everyone else, disproportionately less than that for corporations and rich, will expire in 2027. Nice right? Another 7 years. But, that HUGE tax break will need to be paid for and contrary to some who don't do their math, our sky-rocketing budget and trade deficits are going to do it. 

Yes, after having inherited a steadily growing economy, Trumps cuts spurred, short term, inspiration, but that has been on the heels of an economy that was growing. His efforts were not an effort to reignite a poor economy, rather to surf an economy that was already doing well. More jobs were created during the last few years of the Obama admin than Trump's. Unemployment had been going down for years under the previous admin. and the trend continued under Trump. Job security and market stability and growth, even the stock market grew robustly and upward trending as Trump was coming into office. I am not suggesting that Trump shouldn't bask in this economic CONTINUING trend he inherited, just that he is the messiah you thing he is. But, give him credit, like I said, even he can't screw this up, right? Except for trade wars that has unnecessarily hurt specific areas of our economy....

Also, if quality means anything...the amazing low unemployment rate...well, close to 40-50% of those jobs are out there are low wage jobs. TONS of low wage jobs that continue to make it difficult for many to make ends meet. And when you have a president bent destroying healthcare, that adds a tremendous burden on the middle class. Okay. Let's get to Obamacare...

2. Obamacare. For you to ignore the efforts of the GOP and Trump in destroying the ACA (when people support it) or Obamacare (when many people don't support), is out-right insane. For you to be completely ignorant of the role of the ACA and what it was trying to do for Americans is dismissive. As you know, the vast majority of Americans are a serious medical incident away from bankruptcy, economic disaster. Those tax cuts will do almost nothing if that happened. Low paying jobs will do nothing. Heck, people with good paying jobs will also be greatly impacted. 

What has Trump done? Healthcare is among the top 2-3 NEEDS. What has Trump done to bolster, improve our broken, expensive healthcare system? Or do you care? How dare you?!

3. Gas and oil. Again. You have not been reading or reading carefully. Obvious factors such as oil production, etc. contributes to gas prices. You do know that Obama's admin inherited a financial crisis, right? With very little to no help from the GOP, orchestrated one of the biggest economic turn-arounds from what is considered a very significant depression! You do realize that, don't you? The price of gas has been steadily dropping and into this administration. You do know that don't you? As the oil industry produced more, more people went back to work, as the economy improved, prices of oil and gas steadily followed. Some of the lowest average gas prices of recent times occurred during Obama's admin., not Trump's...so far. 

🙄