Unconditional Self-Love

[MeadowFlower]

Spot where the discussion of, sharing, ideas and quotes can be posted in regards to unconditional self-love.

 

Do you think that unconditional self-love can actually be, and is it actually a thing? Can the love we have for ourselves be over-riding of any badness we've done? Over-riding of who we are no matter how bad and terrible? Can it exist, regardless if we suck (like actually suck)? Can self-love be over-riding and irregardless of EVERYTHING? 

 

Yes or no?

 

[K.K.]

1 hour ago, MeadowFlower said:

Do you think that unconditional self-love can actually be, and is it actually a thing? Can the love we have for ourselves be over-riding of any badness we've done? 

Sure it can. Yes. 

• John Wayne Gacy
• Ted Bundy
• Jeffrey Dahmer
• Richard Ramirez 
• The Green River Killer etc...

They probably all loved themselves very much. They still murdered people. 

 

 
 

 

[Ellener]

Absolutely. We can be unconditionally kind even if that means step away. We can be honest then forgive ourself ( and others )for 'badness' we've done, most of which is not nearly so terrible as the emotions around it. And everybody 'sucks' some of the time, not surely all of the time?

( @K.K. has provided a list of notable people who did not love themselves or anyone else, for the exceptions! )

Self-care and self-nurturing are a good start, holistic simple living works best for me. Physical self-care with diet and exercise and rest, emotional self-care allowing ourself to process life and enjoy it not just stress our way through the days- be in the moment some. And spiritual self-care, finding meaningful things to do, knowing one's own beliefs and ideals and striving to be our best self, to feel like our life was well-lived when all is said and done. Being part of something bigger and connected to others and to nature.

Life's hard for everyone right now one way or another, it's an effort to be cheerful some days.

But it's so worth the effort.

 

[K.K.]

@Ellener Ok, but I don’t agree. I could love myself silly and I do and could still hurt people if I chose to or if I thought they deserved it or if they hurt someone I loved. And probably justify it in my unconditionally loving myself mind. 

[Ellener]

59 minutes ago, K.K. said:

@Ellener Ok, but I don’t agree. I could love myself silly and I do and could still hurt people if I chose to or if I thought they deserved it or if they hurt someone I loved. And probably justify it in my unconditionally loving myself mind. 

Harming other people harms you too. Hitting out or acting out isn't generally the best way to care for ourself or deal with our problems or weaknesses.

The people you mention were narcissistic but that is the twisted projection of being powerful or important in their own minds, not a reflection of self-love. Self-loathing more like, by their actions.

 

[K.K.]

@Ellener Ok well, I’m not a psychiatrist. Just a person. It’s only my opinion. I’m sure any one of those killers would’ve protected themselves in any situation. Sounds like self love to me but it doesn’t to you so let’s just agree to disagree because I like you and don’t really want to fight about it.

The bigger thing is why Meadowflower asked the question in the first place, I suppose. 
 

 

[basil67]

@K.K.., I see where you're going with this.  I see narcissism is the definition of unconditional self love and yes, this is definitely a thing.

On a personal level, while I do forgive myself for my misdeeds and try to learn from them, I don't love the part of myself which is sometimes mean or hurtful or snippy.  I think it's good to have a degree of self criticism and strive to do better.   Taking it further, with the exception parent to child, I don't believe that unconditional love is a healthy thing.  My love must be earned and kept.  If you behave like an arse, my love will be lost.

@MeadowFlower where did you pick up the concept of unconditional self love?  It's not something I've ever heard of.

[MeadowFlower]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

I see narcissism is the definition of unconditional self love and yes, this is definitely a thing.

Wow..... what a statement.. 

So if you do something bad, you then stop loving yourself..? 

[mark clemson]

I suppose a converse way of phrasing the (original) question about unconditional self love is: "Is it possible to do something so terrible that you can't love yourself?"

I suspect that the answer is yes for most people, but there is probably a rather wide range from people who "beat themselves up over nothing" on to full-on sociopaths who can deal with the fact that they murdered or otherwise harmed multiple people.

Even those types may have their own triggers. For example, Bin Laden probably had no issues with causing 9/11 (and was no doubt quite proud of himself) but perhaps if he had killed one of his brothers or kids, or committed (what to his own mind was) some transgression against God, he might find his self-love to be conditional after all.

So I suspect for most people it's conditional at some point, the question being what/how far one has to go before feeling like one can't love oneself anymore.

And there may be those few who truly won't stop loving themselves no matter what. NPD perhaps, but I thought that NPD is essentially a "persona" hiding a buried "real personality" that actually has some very serious esteem/self-love issues. So then it becomes a question of what counts - the outward persona or the suppressed inner core. (But then again, I'm not a psychiatrist either.)

[basil67]

4 hours ago, MeadowFlower said:

Wow..... what a statement.. 

So if you do something bad, you then stop loving yourself..? 

No, I said that "I don't love the part of myself" which sometimes causes hurt etc.   This doesn't mean that I stop loving my whole self.  I doesn't mean that I hate myself either.   And as I said, I also forgive myself for the misdeed (and learn from it)

Perhaps it would help if you explained what you mean by unconditional self love.  I've not heard the term, so perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Edited April 7, 2020 by basil67

[Foxhall]

4 hours ago, MeadowFlower said:

So if you do something bad, you then stop loving yourself..?

what is the something bad that youve done meadows? 

perhaps if you write your answer on a sheet of paper and then just let it fly away,

ok if you feel you have not done anything useful today, tomorrow is another day, try to do something just one thing even tomorrow that you feel is good,

 

[RecentChange]

Hum, I feel like I have "unconditional self love".

I have never experienced not loving myself. I have never felt anything but love for myself. 

I'll be honest, there are times I wonder if it's a bit of narcissism, or if it is simply because my parents did a very good job of showing me unconditional love. I have never wondered if they loved me, or if they were proud of me, or happy with who I am. They have always made it very clear that I am loved, capable, and a decent person. 

And I think for many, parenting like this becomes a source of self love. 

Have I been disappointed in choices I have made, you bet. But never has it made me question my love for myself.

Again, perhaps it's narcissistic, but I am #1 in my book. I come first. Like those airline instructions that say put your oxygen masks on before helping others - I love myself first. 

[MeadowFlower]

7 hours ago, RecentChange said:

Hum, I feel like I have "unconditional self love".

I have never experienced not loving myself. I have never felt anything but love for myself.

 

That must make life lighter.

 

7 hours ago, RecentChange said:

Have I been disappointed in choices I have made, you bet. But never has it made me question my love for myself.

Well there we go. So regardless of what you've done, you still love yourself?

So I can have this same love for myself, do you think? 

[Miss Spider]

I didn't know narcissists really love themselves though? I thought narcissists loved  an idealized version of themselves and will lie or worse  to protect this image. It just seems like it’s rooted in an insecurity. People who suffer NPD are often deeply traumatized by childhood abandonment or abuse and then on the flip side being pampered and excessively adored by a caregiver  

Edited April 8, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[littleblackheart]

Narcissists often do love themselves, they do think they're that awesome. ExH truly believes he is an unrecognised genius, and is really hurt at the idea that the whole world is not at his feet. True NPD sufferers can't understand why not everyone admire them as much as they admire themselves, and they can't deal with the consequences of their less than perfect selves.

 

As far as 'self-love', I guess I'd be more comfortable describing that as 'self acceptance'. I think I have a healthy regard for myself; at 45, I am at peace with the person that I am, and have fully embraced my imperfections. I'm constantly learning about myself, good and bad, and learning from past mistakes.

The only type of unconditional love I have is the one I have for my children. Everything else is conditional so I'm with @basil67on this.

To me, love can only be a feeling you have for someone else.

[RecentChange]

6 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

The only type of unconditional love I have is the one I have for my children. Everything else is conditional so I'm with @basil67on this.

To me, love can only be a feeling you have for someone else.

I was thinking about this topic while out on my ride last night.

The OP questioned if you could still love yourself even if you did something "bad" (for the the answer is a resounding yes).

I thought about how mother's of murders sometimes still "love" their children even though they are horrible people.

I couldn't imagine not loving myself. I hear people say that they "hate themselves" and that's not something I can identify with. 

But I also feel that the love I have for myself also stops me from doing things that would cause me not to love myself. Does that make any sense?

[littleblackheart]

24 minutes ago, RecentChange said:

But I also feel that the love I have for myself also stops me from doing things that would cause me not to love myself. Does that make any sense?

That makes sense, but I would perhaps call it having very healthy boundaries?

Maybe it's just me, but I've never really thought of either 'loving' or 'hating' myself. I accept myself as I am, I know I'm not perfect. I've noticed that with age and experience, I respond better to people who can see their flaws as well as their strengths, and have good mix of self-awareness + healthy self-esteem. 

[preraph]

No.  There are people who only love themselves or things that make them happy and have no love or empathy for others except as to what loss it would be if they lost them for their own joy.  Self-worth, self-esteem is important to mental health.  Having healthy self-esteem will keep you out of a lot of bad situations because it would mean you have boundaries and like yourself too much to put yourself in a bad situation.  

 

But real bad people, sociopaths, psychopaths, high level narcissists aren't good people no matter how much they love themselves.  They're defective.  They're missing empathy for others.  

[MeadowFlower]

@RecentChange 

19 hours ago, RecentChange said:

Have I been disappointed in choices I have made, you bet. But never has it made me question my love for myself.

1) So regardless of what you've done, you still love yourself? 

2) So I can have this same love for myself, do you think? 

 

1 hour ago, RecentChange said:

But I also feel that the love I have for myself also stops me from doing things that would cause me not to love myself

3) But per chance you did do some things that would cause you not to love yourself, would you still ultimately love yourself? 

[RecentChange]

1 hour ago, MeadowFlower said:

@RecentChange 

1) So regardless of what you've done, you still love yourself? 

2) So I can have this same love for myself, do you think? 

 

3) But per chance you did do some things that would cause you not to love yourself, would you still ultimately love yourself? 

1 - yes I am far from perfect, but I am not an axe murder or an inheritently evil person - but so far in my 40+ years on this Earth I have never had any "self hate" or lack of love for myself.

2 - I have no idea, because I do not know why you do not love yourself. It's honestly something I can't really imagine. I am assuming you haven't tortured babies or something. 

3 - I can't imagine doing something that would cause me not to love myself. 

In the end, I think the way we feel about our selves is often closely tied to how we were raised - those formative years where self esteem is established.

It appears that you have a low self esteem, and I don't know why that is.

Have you tried to explore why that is? Have you thought back to when you first had these feelings? Have they always been there?

Did you feel valued and cherished by your parents?

To recover from someone like this, it often takes a lot of unwinding. First recognizing the source, where these feelings dervive from.

Then understanding that those feelings are not logical.

Then learning how to retrain your thought and behavior patterns to create a healthier self esteem.

 

[preraph]

It's anonymous here, Meadow.  Why not just tell us the worst thing you think you ever did..

[basil67]

Thank you for explaining it so well @littleblackheart