Outrage: NYC subways still running and NY leaders are hypocrites

[Interstellar]

Do you live in NY nospam?  They cannot completely shut down public transit because a lot of businesses like restaurants still need to open for take out, curbside, etc...because they have employees depending on them. Grocery stores and Whole Foods and Wegmans, etc..also need workers and those workers need to commute as well. And oh, did I mention nurses, doctors, police who need to use the subway to go to work.

I live here and I’m not fearful, nor am I scared. I’m thankful. I’m only a little worried about the droplets in the air staying for long periods when I go outside to buy food and get some exercise but even that is debatable by scientists as to how long.  

But thank you for your concern. NY loves you and everybody on this message board whether they care to or not.

NY loves you.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Interstellar

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, mrs rubble said:

Our numbers here are looking really good, we have the best chance out of any country in the western world of beating this due to the swift hard actions of our Prime Minister, our public transport is still running but you need to prove you're on essential travel to get on a bus or train. Yesterday I saw 3 buses on my drive home from work, there was one person on each bus.

This morning on my way to work I saw a train pass with 4 carriages, only one person on that train.

You are in NZ? 

We don't have public transport as such in my city! and we are super spread out for a city of 3 million. So millions of cars. 

New York has almost 9 million people inhabiting 300 square miles.

One person per train would not cut it I don't think, that's a lot of infrastructure and essential workers.

There are over 200 hospitals in New York and 600 nursing homes just for a start.

3 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Only about 9 states even have liquor stores  anymore.

Texas is of of the states with the highest number of 'dry counties' ( ie don't sell liquor for the people outside US ) but that just means like elsewhere the edge of the neighbouring state to the dry one houses the liquor stores.

There are hundreds of liquor stores in Houston. All of the cities in Texas.

Do other states sell liquor in gas stations or grocery stores like in Louisiana? 

4 hours ago, nospam99 said:

I would think it clear from my OP why I started this thread.

Not really, that's why I asked. Are you suggesting people no longer inhabit places like New York as it is too dangerous to function in a crisis like this pandemic situation?

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Ellener
wording

[Gaeta]

14 hours ago, nospam99 said:

Is there documentation posted by the state and/or city government to substantiate the assertions from LS posters in this thread about the necessity of public transportation for essential workers? Without that documentation all I'm hearing is Democratic fan-boys and fan-girls yessing blue politicians.

Italy, France, England, Canada, and all the rest of the western world have kept their public transportation open as it's extremely important for the essential workers. It has nothing to do with Democrates vs Republicans. The difference is most countries have observed confinement at 80% leaving the metro empty and available for medical staff except in the US, NY in particular where people observe only at 40-50% the confinement. 

It's not a problem of keeping the metro open, it's a problem of people not staying home.

 

[Ellener]

The New York City Comptroller website has detailed New York City Frontline workers on March 26, including a section with breakdown of work travel needs for over a million essential workers.

Here is the page https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/new-york-citys-frontline-workers/

'This report, by New York City Comptroller Scott M. Stringer, provides a detailed, demographic profile of these non-governmental workers—and the public employees who get them to work—so that the City, State, and Feds can better address their needs and citizens can better appreciate the struggles confronted by those who toil every day on the frontlines of this pandemic—who they are, where they live, where they’re from, how they get to work, their childcare and healthcare needs, and their financial stresses. To that end, the following serves as both a profile and a guide.'

[SincereOnlineGuy]

19 hours ago, Ellener said:

 

Texas is of of the states with the highest number of 'dry counties' ( ie don't sell liquor for the people outside US ) but that just means like elsewhere the edge of the neighbouring state to the dry one houses the liquor stores.

There are hundreds of liquor stores in Houston. All of the cities in Texas.

Do other states sell liquor in gas stations or grocery stores like in Louisiana? 

Yes, most states now have liquor sales in various stores, many/most? of which would be presently designated as 'essential'  for their groceries component.

[mark clemson]

I don't know that they have a choice in keeping it open for a place like NYC, but apparently it has indeed taken a toll (see below).

Perhaps next time around, since there are presumably fewer cars on the streets right now, they can come with a plan for a less crowded, more aerated, and more easily sanitized temporary system for both the workers and the riders. No doubt plenty of people are getting it via riding subways.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/41-transit-workers-dead-crisis-184512331.html

Edited April 8, 2020 by mark clemson
typo

[BC1980]

Anyone else getting their hours cut or dealing with generally weird stuff? I'm in a weird place because I work in cardiology, which is mainly elective procedures. So we're obviously slow right now. A few weeks ago, we were told we had to take turns going to our hospital's COVID unit. I went up there two weeks ago, and it was literal hell. Just completely unsafe as far as nurse patient ratios go.
 

I might get called off on Friday, and I kind of welcome if it my other opting is going back to that nightmare of a floor. But if I get called off, I don't get paid for that day. Two nurses quit last weekend after having to work on the COVID floor. I'm not gonna do that, but I really hope all of this ends soon. Just venting my frustration. I'm used  to working in unsafe situations because that's what's you do as a nurse, but working on an unsafe COVID floor is taking it to a new level. 

[lana-banana]

14 minutes ago, BC1980 said:

Anyone else getting their hours cut or dealing with generally weird stuff? I'm in a weird place because I work in cardiology, which is mainly elective procedures. So we're obviously slow right now. A few weeks ago, we were told we had to take turns going to our hospital's COVID unit. I went up there two weeks ago, and it was literal hell. Just completely unsafe as far as nurse patient ratios go.
 

I might get called off on Friday, and I kind of welcome if it my other opting is going back to that nightmare of a floor. But if I get called off, I don't get paid for that day. Two nurses quit last weekend after having to work on the COVID floor. I'm not gonna do that, but I really hope all of this ends soon. Just venting my frustration. I'm used  to working in unsafe situations because that's what's you do as a nurse, but working on an unsafe COVID floor is taking it to a new level. 

BC, I wanted to sincerely thank you for your work and your perspective. My sister is a nurse who works in cardiology---and not at some s***ty podunk hospital but probably the best one in her entire state---and they have nothing approaching adequate PPE. She has also been called to COVID work. Six months ago she'd be fired for handling a tuberculosis patient without PPE and now they are being told they have to reuse all masks and gowns, with weekly washing for the N95s. Her husband is begging her to resign (they have two kids under 3). She's considering it. She feels betrayed and angry but mostly she's horrified. Privately run hospitals are a hellhole and public ones are no better. The VA is an absolute catastrophe. 

When people who have gone through hell for an already-dangerous career decide it's not safe to keep working, that's a call for the rest of us to wake the hell up. But we're ignoring it. We're already seeing deaths among grocery workers and home health aides. What are we going to do about our hospital staff? Why won't we do the bare minimum for those who are giving so much to protect us?

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

they can come with a plan

Yes, they did if you scroll down, it's very ambitious though, with PPE and necessary supplies for all essential workers- and free healthcare!

[gaius]

4 hours ago, lana-banana said:

When people who have gone through hell for an already-dangerous career decide it's not safe to keep working, that's a call for the rest of us to wake the hell up. But we're ignoring it. We're already seeing deaths among grocery workers and home health aides. What are we going to do about our hospital staff? Why won't we do the bare minimum for those who are giving so much to protect us?

What do you propose we do? 🤔

[Ellener]

7 hours ago, gaius said:

What do you propose we do? 🤔

Given this demographic profile, Comptroller Stringer offers the following recommendations to help support New York City’s frontline workers in this time of crisis:

1. Provide Free Protective Gear and Priority Access to COVID-19 Testing to all Frontline Workers

The City and State should help provide free protective equipment and gear—including gloves, masks, and hand sanitizer—to all businesses that have frontline workers interacting with high volumes of people and potentially contagious conditions. Meanwhile, workers at the MTA, hospitals, grocery stores, and other frontline industries should receive priority access to COVID-19 testing when symptoms warrant.

2. Access to Hotel Rooms and Housing for all Frontline Workers who Wish to be Closer to Work or Avoid Infecting Family Members as well as for Healthcare Professionals Coming in from Out of Town

The City and State should work with local hotels—many of which are largely vacant—to reserve blocks of rooms for frontline workers who wish to be more proximate to work or are worried about infecting housemates or family members. This should be provided at no cost to the workers.

Moreover, as the pandemic increasingly centers in New York City and healthcare professionals from around the tristate area and beyond come to offer their services, they should also be given access to hotel rooms at no cost to the workers.

3. Hazard Pay and Staffing Supplements for Frontline Workers

Frontline industries should be encouraged to provide additional compensation or hazard pay to all frontline workers, especially those at heightened risk of contracting COVID-19. The City and State should subsidize this hazard pay for small businesses in order to properly compensate workers and help recruit new employees in these high-risk and currently understaffed industries.

Meanwhile, large corporations that have seen a huge surge in revenue on account of this pandemic—like Amazon, Walmart, and Domino’s—but offer minimal wages and no healthcare coverage to many frontline workers, must step up and increase wages and benefits immediately.

4. Guarantee Healthcare of All Frontline Workers

The State and City should ensure access to free healthcare for all direct service workers in “essential industries”—either via Medicaid or otherwise.[3] This should be available during the length of the crisis and thereafter.

5. Strengthen the Safety Net for Independent Contractors as well as Non-Citizens and Undocumented New Yorkers

Many frontline workers, including home health and child care providers and food delivery workers, operate as independent contractors. Not only does this obligate them to pay twice as much in Social Security and Medicare taxes, it also provides them with few safety net protections if they are unable to work due to medical conditions or other factors. In order to protect these frontline workers—and all “gig workers” in this time of crisis—the State must expand its unemployment, healthcare, and other safety net programs to cover independent contractors.

Meanwhile, basic safety net protections must extend to New Yorkers regardless of immigration status, including those who are undocumented. An emergency relief fund could be established in partnership with private partners in order to circumvent federal restrictions.

6. Maintain Robust MTA Service, Especially During the Off-Peak and on the Bus

While MTA ridership has plummeted in the last two weeks, frontline workers continue to depend on the bus and subway to get to work. Prior to the pandemic, 55 percent commuted via public transit, more than half travelled outside of rush hour, and they accounted for 30 percent of all regular bus commuters.

While New York City Transit worker shortages and disruptions are inevitable amidst this crisis, it is crucial that the MTA continue to deliver robust transit service so that fellow frontline workers can get to their jobs and keep our city going.

As the MTA begins to roll out its “Essential Service Plan,” it must closely track ridership and modify service to meet the demands of frontline workers. First and foremost, bus service should be preserved while regular off-peak schedules should be maintained on the subway and commuter rail. If paired with lower fares, strong off-peak service on the Metro-North and LIRR would be a boon to frontline workers living in Westchester and on Long Island.

7. Metro-North and LIRR Should Charge a Flat $2.75 Fare for All Trips into New York City and Provide Free Transfers to the Subway and Bus

While many Nassau and Westchester residents work on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic, very few travel by commuter rail. This is because Metro-North and LIRR charge exorbitant fares while the Westchester Bee-Line Bus and Nassau NICE Bus both offer more affordable fares and free transfers to the New York City Transit subway and bus.

For the remainder of the COVID-19 crisis, Metro-North and LIRR should charge a $2.75 fare for any and all trips into New York City and enable free transfers to the subway and bus. Meanwhile, both the Bee-Line and NICE Bus should run more service directly to LIRR and Metro-North stations—rather than devoting a majority of resources to routes that parallel commuter rail lines.

8. Help Frontline Workers Get to Work by Bike and Foot

Prior to the pandemic, over ten percent of frontline workers commuted to work via bike or foot. This number will and should expand in order to maintain proper social distancing and effective access to work locations. In order to support these transit modes, the City should do the following:

First, the City should offer a subsidy to any frontline worker who is interested in purchasing a bike or e-bike. It can coordinate with major bike retailers and manufacturers—as well as large grocery and drug store chains—to help cover these costs and distribute these bikes.

Second, a free month of Citi Bike membership should be extended to all frontline workers—including grocery store clerks, childcare workers, cleaning services, etc.—not just those employed in healthcare and public transit. The City can help cover these costs by permanently waiving all fees that Citi Bike currently pays for “parking revenue lost from the placement of the docking stations.”[4]

Third, the City should work with the State to lower the speed limit to 15 miles per hour for all nonessential vehicles. Empty streets cannot be an excuse for cars to speed, putting New Yorkers in harm’s way and discouraging biking and walking.

Fourth, the City should expand sidewalk space on dozens of commercial and residential corridors throughout the five boroughs by carving out a lane of traffic and bumping out the curb using temporary barriers, stanchions, and planters. Expanding this space will allow for appropriate social distancing without blocking essential ambulance, sanitation, utility, and delivery traffic. Moreover, the City DOT has ample experience with these sidewalk bump-outs and can do this work quickly.

And finally, roads running through parks or those that do not travel along commercial or residential neighborhoods should be shut down altogether and opened to bikes and pedestrians. This can include Forest Park Drive, Mary Corbin Drive, the Mosholu Parkway, and the Jackie Robinson Parkway.

9. Free and Easily Accessible Child Care for all Frontline Workers

This week, the Department of Education opened up Regional Enrichment Centers for the children of “essential workers” deemed critical to the COVID-19 response efforts. The approximately 100 RECs will offer both early childcare centers as well as K–12 sites for the children of first responders and health care workers, transit workers, sanitation workers, and City agency essential staff.[5]

While this is an important first step, these resources must be immediately ramped up to serve frontline workers in all frontline industries—including the grocery, delivery, social service nonprofit, street vendor, building cleaning, and building security services.

In addition to providing free and high-quality child care to all frontline workers, the City and State should create a centralized tool to connect them with available slots in their neighborhoods, including community-based family child care providers.

Meanwhile, family co-payments for subsidized child care should be waived for the duration of this emergency, with corresponding increases in reimbursement rates to publicly-funded child care providers.

10. Deep Cleaning Subsidies, Supplies, and Staffing

The City should create a fund to help small businesses and nonprofits with day-to-day cleaning and sanitizing expenses—as well as “deep cleaning” expenses following a confirmed employee COVID-19 infection. It should also expand transitional work programs (like Shelter Exit Transition) to put vulnerable job seekers to work in cleaning services and other frontline industries.

11. Empower Frontline Workers by Bolstering Pathways to Citizenship and Enacting Municipal Voting

Over half of frontline workers are foreign-born and nearly one-quarter are non-citizens. Without citizenship status and voting rights, many are completely disempowered in our political system. This explains, in part, why so many frontline workers lack decent wages, healthcare, and a robust social safety net.

To rectify this situation, both during and after the COVID-19 pandemic, the City of New York must bolster pathways to citizenship and enable non-citizen voting in all municipal elections. A Citizenship Fund should be created to subsidize the cost of all relevant application, course, and legal fees.

Meanwhile, all New York City residents with green cards and legal work papers should be permitted to vote in local elections. It is only fair that those who pay taxes and provide essential frontline services to all New Yorkers should have a direct say in municipal affairs.

[Ellener]

7 hours ago, gaius said:

What do you propose we do? 🤔

I think the first thing necessary is comprehensive training in basic hygiene and basic infection prevention and control, clearly it is lacking when people have to be told and endlessly reminded of the basics about wearing gloves or coughing and sneezing.

One good thing to come out of this may be a reduction in other illnesses in future which are transmitted unnecessarily and carelessly, if people will learn and follow basic thoughtful routines especially when sick.

[BC1980]

14 hours ago, lana-banana said:

BC, I wanted to sincerely thank you for your work and your perspective. My sister is a nurse who works in cardiology---and not at some s***ty podunk hospital but probably the best one in her entire state---and they have nothing approaching adequate PPE. She has also been called to COVID work. Six months ago she'd be fired for handling a tuberculosis patient without PPE and now they are being told they have to reuse all masks and gowns, with weekly washing for the N95s. Her husband is begging her to resign (they have two kids under 3). She's considering it. She feels betrayed and angry but mostly she's horrified. Privately run hospitals are a hellhole and public ones are no better. The VA is an absolute catastrophe. 

When people who have gone through hell for an already-dangerous career decide it's not safe to keep working, that's a call for the rest of us to wake the hell up. But we're ignoring it. We're already seeing deaths among grocery workers and home health aides. What are we going to do about our hospital staff? Why won't we do the bare minimum for those who are giving so much to protect us?

I mulled over my options early this week. Do I resign? The problem is that no one else is hiring, and I'd lose my health insurance. Like your sister, I work in a hospital that has the most respected cardiology group in the area. We're a 535 bed hospital- so a big hospital but not a huge academic medical center. There's a lot of stuff that I won't say on a public forum, but it's an absolute disgrace in these hospitals. 
 

You can't go to administration. They'll just tell you to resign if you have an issue. Unless you are in a state with a union, there is no law concerning nurse to patient ratios. So you're always at the mercy of your hospital administration. Thank your sister for what she is doing. It's hazardous out there. I actually think grocery store workers, ect. are at a really high risk. They are in a real bind right now.

[mark clemson]

@Ellener I'm not near NYC, so mostly just wondering - are they actually implementing/able to do these things? 

I was thinking something along the lines of open air "vans" for some workers, e.g. Jeeps, open windows, etc, although I suppose in March/April East Coast that's not always feasible. More aeration = less virus generally I would think. Better wet sleeves than the ER. But not sure if any of that is feasible until next time around (if ever).

[NuevoYorko]

I don't think some of you have a realistic idea of the volume of people the MTA transports.  An average weekday day pre-COVID would be about 5.7 MILLION riders.

Approximately 80% of Midtown Manhattan workers use public transportation to work daily (pre COVID)

I don't have any handy stats for what this is down to during this pandemic but I do know that services are drastically cut currently and the most used routes are packed.  

Your general low or middle income workers who are considered "essential," including: hospital staff, transit workers, municipal utility workers, sanitation, grocery,  delivery, just to name a few, do NOT live in Manhattan but in an outer borough.  They could not afford Midtown housing and they certainly cannot afford the upkeep and storage of a vehicle; even if they could it's not really considered a useful expenditure of resources among New Yorkers.   They MUST use public transport to get in.

Even if a significant portion of these subway riders are not legitimately "essential" workers, the majority of them are.  It takes a great many humans to keep that city afloat.  Regardless, the subways and busses are not expendable during this time.

There actually is a bike service, I forget what it's called; people can take a bike and return it elsewhere and it's being used much more heavily than normal but still, this is only useful within Midtown neighborhoods.  Also it is taking an entire work force to keep up due to the necessity of disinfecting the bikes.

I'd like to see how any significant lessening of this burden could be achieved by the use of Jeeps and vans.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by NuevoYorko

[Marc878]

I get the logistics in NYC. Fine but then the politicians need to get out of the victim mode of no ones helping us?

 

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

@Ellener I'm not near NYC, so mostly just wondering - are they actually implementing/able to do these things? 

I was thinking something along the lines of open air "vans" for some workers, e.g. Jeeps, open windows, etc, although I suppose in March/April East Coast that's not always feasible. More aeration = less virus generally I would think. Better wet sleeves than the ER. But not sure if any of that is feasible until next time around (if ever).

That is a good idea that I have not heard mentioned in media. Most large buildings have commercial air handlers with a mixed air system that draws in outside air to mix with return air before delivering it to the building. Many times the mixed air ratio is less then 20 percent outside air. That percentage could be raised to 40 or 50. The penalty would entail increased heating and cooling cost. I could only guess at how effective it would be.

[mark clemson]

@NuevoYorko I was thinking the transportation would be provided by the city rather than riders owning the vehicles, but your point is well taken. IF there would be implementation  of this,  obviously there would be major logistics challenges - like, where do they get/store the vehicles? Might not make much sense given how rare epidemics are (although it also might help reduce the impact of a bio attack/bioterrorism).

Perhaps the city buses could be modified (or future one built) to make it possible to make them partly "open air" when necessary such as under current circumstances. Also a few fleets of modifiable vans. Probably wouldn't be enough for everyone, but might make a dent, dunno.

[2BGoodAgain]

On 4/7/2020 at 10:41 AM, Ellener said:

It's an interesting topic @nospam99 because NY is totally dependent on mass transit to ferry essential workers.

It has been discussed in the media in recent days and Metro Transportation Authority President Pat Foye said last week “Most people should stay off mass transit." 

Here in Houston, the country's third largest metro area we have very little public transport and of course the city is consequently sprawling and car-bound. 

But in a situation like a pandemic that is helpful.

The rest of the time I am sure the increased pollution puts a strain on people's respiratory problems!

it's half and half true.

so yes, NYC is really dependent on their mass transit, BUT with the reduced workforce, they don't need them all to be running.... that's where the labor unions power comes in.. 

but who knows, mebbe even IF they were to reduce the MTA workforce during this crisis... they'll prob still get paid on top of unemployment?? lol. i wouldn't put it past the unions.

remember, they retire at 55 with some sort of pension% etc...

[2BGoodAgain]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I don't think some of you have a realistic idea of the volume of people the MTA transports.  An average weekday day pre-COVID would be about 5.7 MILLION riders.

Approximately 80% of Midtown Manhattan workers use public transportation to work daily (pre COVID)

I don't have any handy stats for what this is down to during this pandemic but I do know that services are drastically cut currently and the most used routes are packed.  

Your general low or middle income workers who are considered "essential," including: hospital staff, transit workers, municipal utility workers, sanitation, grocery,  delivery, just to name a few, do NOT live in Manhattan but in an outer borough.  They could not afford Midtown housing and they certainly cannot afford the upkeep and storage of a vehicle; even if they could it's not really considered a useful expenditure of resources among New Yorkers.   They MUST use public transport to get in.

Even if a significant portion of these subway riders are not legitimately "essential" workers, the majority of them are.  It takes a great many humans to keep that city afloat.  Regardless, the subways and busses are not expendable during this time.

There actually is a bike service, I forget what it's called; people can take a bike and return it elsewhere and it's being used much more heavily than normal but still, this is only useful within Midtown neighborhoods.  Also it is taking an entire work force to keep up due to the necessity of disinfecting the bikes.

I'd like to see how any significant lessening of this burden could be achieved by the use of Jeeps and vans.

 

ironically, if people had been using those bikes to begin with, certain demographics might not be vulnerable to certain diseases... and yes, it sucks if genetically, your family lineage is vulnerable to certain diseases, but that's life... adapt or die off.

[lana-banana]

17 hours ago, gaius said:

What do you propose we do? 🤔

- Coordinate a federal response so that PPE and other needed gear goes directly to states (in the current system the government literally hands them off to third parties and states are forced to bid against each other and other countries)

- Hazard pay for grocery workers, cab/rideshare, delivery drivers, paramedics and anyone else classified as essential or high-risk. If they're not making at least $30/hr it's not enough.

- Pay everyone else between 75-100% of their salary to stay home.

- Release as many nonviolent offenders as possible from federal prison and everyone from ICE custody. BOP and ICE have mishandled things so badly the people in their custody are begging for death or deportation rather than stay in there. It is unconscionable. We are already seeing huge numbers of deaths in prisons in Rikers, Ouisiana, and Mississippi.

- Launch a 9/11-style commission about the government's criminally negligent and incompetent handling of this crisis as soon as is feasible.

That seems like a decent a start but I'm open to a whole lot more.

Edited April 9, 2020 by lana-banana

[basil67]

6 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I don't have any handy stats for what this is down to during this pandemic but I do know that services are drastically cut currently and the most used routes are packed. 

Cutting services is one of the things creating problems because it puts more people on the remaining transport.   I mentioned that here in Sydney our transport is largely empty - that's because patronage is down 75% yet we are still running all services as usual.  

[Ellener]

 

11 hours ago, mark clemson said:

More aeration = less virus generally I would think.

I'm sure it's a possibility once the pandemic's over and all the facts are in. 

I certainly feel less vulnerable outdoors instinctively. But still away from people until I know more about why this particular strain is more contagious.

 

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

ironically, if people had been using those bikes to begin with, certain demographics might not be vulnerable to certain diseases... and yes, it sucks if genetically, your family lineage is vulnerable to certain diseases, but that's life... adapt or die off.

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say, considering that 800 residents of NYC have died of COVID-19 in the past 24 hours.  Too bad they didn't ride bikes enough, right?

[Libby1]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say, considering that 800 residents of NYC have died of COVID-19 in the past 24 hours.  Too bad they didn't ride bikes enough, right?

I just cannot get my head around the notion that New York has had double the amount of deaths that China, home to almost 1,4 billion people and the place where this virus began, has had.  I say notion rather than fact, because at this point it just seems so unfeasible that China's death rate from this is half of New York's.  Prediction models for the West are still being based on Wuhan figures, which is very troubling to me given the already massive disparity between China and the West in terms of how hard this pandemic has hit.