Affair partner's wife harassing me

[mark clemson]

On 4/11/2020 at 3:29 PM, elaine567 said:

What he says to his mistress cannot be trusted.
MM are notorious for making up stories about their life and wife...

 

@elaine567 and no doubt several others. Of course you have a point that sometimes MM are lying about their unhappiness and how their wives treat them. OP may have been lied to. It's also true that people aren't particularly good at knowing when someone's lying. But it's also true that sometimes MM aren't lying.

This also must be balanced against the fact that the OP is the only person who's had ANY direct experience with MM and now his W. The sum total of everyone else around here's direct experience with them equals zero. And yet many folks  seems perfectly happy to disregard what she says in favor of their own preconceived notions about "what must actually be happening". There's definitely value in that sometimes, and it turns out they were right, but no one's right about these things all the time - and no one yet knows for this post.

A couple of other problems with this:

Ignoring the evidence actually presented in favor of assumptions is not how rational thought progresses. If some people hadn't started ignoring preconceived belief structures when it came to illnesses, we'd all still be thinking COVID was caused by demons and be using amulets to ward it off or similar. (And probably there are still some people out there doing exactly that.)

Also, when we deny or disregard what's actually presented, there's a strong tendency to fill in the resulting gap with whatever WE happen to think. MMs and xMMs have posted here and it turns out some of them are really not so terrible after all, and also really were quite unhappy. But when you ignore what's presented in the original post, those among us who may think all MMs are evil, malignant sex-monsters or similar may start seeing a sex-monster where none actually exists. Similarly, those who tend to see BWs as damsels in distress may start seeing one where there's really a harridan, due to disregarding what's actually written in the OP.

So, while I know there's value in pointing out to OP she may have been deceived, I don't agree with jumping to the conclusion that therefore, other posters, who've never had any direct experience with the people involved, must automatically be correct.

I'm well aware that the OP could post tomorrow with fresh info, indicating she now realizes she's been lied to. It's also possible that there is both a sex-monster AND a harridan in the mix, as I do believe there's a tendency for "broken to attract broken". New info may or may not be presented, and if it does I'll re-assess. Until it does, I don't think it's particularly rational to just assume OP's wrong about everything and that the opposite of what she says must actually be true.

[mark clemson]

@Starswillshine

On 4/11/2020 at 3:09 PM, Starswillshine said:

I'm just failing to see where his wife is this person.

 

Hmmm.  So, without disregarding what the OP has written, would you say that:

On 4/9/2020 at 2:52 PM, Whittliehartz said:

...Home life for him was/is living hell

... represents a normal, healthy marriage? Or a normal, healthy reconciliation process?

If you're going to disregard what OP wrote, could you explain how you know for a fact that she's wrong, and that their home life was actually reasonably pleasant?

[Allupinnit]

Nobody knows what the hell is going on in that marriage except the MM and his BS.  Everything else is just speculation on our part, but yeah it seems to reason that MM who cheat have to lie to do so, so how could you trust a liar?

[mark clemson]

If you're asking me, I'd point out that desperate people lie every day.

[Allupinnit]

I'm not really sure why this thread has turned to talking in platitudes I mean yeah sure ANYTHING is possible but common things happen commonly - people like to argue that to fit their own POV. 

If you're asking ME, I'd be selective with whom you surround yourself with, for me those are not liars.  You're known by the company you keep.

[Allupinnit]

By your reasoning we should all just go around doing what we want because lots of people do it anyway.  I can't abide by that code of ethics.

[mark clemson]

12 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

By your reasoning we should all just go around doing what we want because lots of people do it anyway.  I can't abide by that code of ethics.

?? If directed at me, I'm not sure how you're seeing that, but no. Although I'm not perfect, like you there are many things I don't condone. Infidelity apparently ultimately tends to hurt many people in the long run so I'm not at all rah! rah! for it if that's what you're thinking. My posts and advice here have born that out pretty consistently I think.

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

If you're asking me, I'd point out that desperate people lie every day.

The truth here? None of us kno9w the whole story, and like anyone else, the OP will tell us the version that puts her and the MM in the best light.
The mental healthcare stuff?  I think the OP has been fed a real Sh@t sandwich of lies, and like lots of people will do when they care about someone, she will see him in the best light.

 

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

If you're asking me, I'd point out that desperate people lie every day.

Quoted for truth. 
Who has the greatest reaosn to lie here?

[Allupinnit]

Desperate how though?  If they've made a series of bad choices and are in a desperate situation, sure.  Like this guy getting found out by his CONTROLLING WIFE.  

[pepperbird]

29 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

Desperate how though?  If they've made a series of bad choices and are in a desperate situation, sure.  Like this guy getting found out by his CONTROLLING WIFE.  

( just a reply, not directed at you personally) I always find it incredibly funny when Ow/om paint the BS as controlling. They're so controlling that their WS can have a whole other relationship behind their back?
 

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

Quoted for truth. 
Who has the greatest reaosn to lie here?

Hmm. Since you apparently still want to discuss MM/BW. I think it's MM.

The relevant question on that point, though isn't who has reason, since that's just more fuel for conjectures that have already been made. It's did he lie to OP about what's going on in his marriage, etc. OP may yet, chime in to shed more light on this, and it IS quite possible, she'll have new info indicating he was. But I've never argued that point, and time will tell.

[MilaVaneela]

*pops my head up and gives a few gentle whacks at the dearly departed steed’s grave*
 

If the OP believes the man is unsafe or being exploited in the care of his wife and parents (she mentioned his wife and family “going through his phone and controlling him”) then she needs to contact law enforcement and/or Adult Protective Services. If she feels she wants him to leave his wife and go to her, then she needs to educate herself on what is involved in being a caregiver for a person with mental illness and how to support them because a grand love affair alone is not sufficient to treat a psychiatric illness. Also, I am not a psychiatrist but I will interject that based on my experiences that if this man has a  cluster B disorder, those are very, very hard to treat and one cannot love or “nice” the person out of them. Tried it, it failed. (I only say this based on the comments about him being unlikable to many people and some of the apparently manipulative behaviors on his part. I don’t know for sure and again, not a psychiatrist. Just an observation.) 

Edited April 13, 2020 by MilaVaneela
Add thought

[pepperbird]

33 minutes ago, MilaVaneela said:

*pops my head up and gives a few gentle whacks at the dearly departed steed’s grave*
 

If the OP believes the man is unsafe or being exploited in the care of his wife and parents (she mentioned his wife and family “going through his phone and controlling him”) then she needs to contact law enforcement and/or Adult Protective Services. If she feels she wants him to leave his wife and go to her, then she needs to educate herself on what is involved in being a caregiver for a person with mental illness and how to support them because a grand love affair alone is not sufficient to treat a psychiatric illness. Also, I am not a psychiatrist but I will interject that based on my experiences that if this man has a  cluster B disorder, those are very, very hard to treat and one cannot love or “nice” the person out of them. Tried it, it failed. (I only say this based on the comments about him being unlikable to many people and some of the apparently manipulative behaviors on his part. I don’t know for sure and again, not a psychiatrist. Just an observation.) 

If you have ever dealt with anyone who has mental health issues, you'll know what a cluster F it can be.
Personally, I hope he leaves hos wife, Give the poor woman some peace of mind.

[usa1ah]

I think OP has checked out. 
 

Her AP had a bad marriage and it sounds like most of the problems with it came from the AP’s wife. That is still no excuse to cheat. 
 

Then OP never talks about her cheating on her own husband. She said something about him being ok with it. Is he ok with her cheating on him? Did she sugar coat it and leave things out? We might not ever know. Op you need to focus on your marriage and stop worrying about what you have helped to make worse. 

[4Never21]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:03 PM, mark clemson said:

Since it's not his first time in an affair, it boggles my mind that she insists on trying to control him instead of just leaving. Maybe she can't stand to lose? Dunno.

OR maybe he has been gaslighting her for years and her desire to believe in and make the relationship work clouds her ability to see the situation clearly.

Most of these "relationships" are carefully controlled and manipulated by the person who instigates the wayward activity. Admittedly, that's not always the husband. There are just as many controlling, manipulative, gaslighting wives out there. That being said, these affairs are still pretty formulaic from a psychological point of view and considering the story as relayed here it would be this husband pulling everyone's strings.

Just saying.

[mark clemson]

Evidence?

Most of these relationships?  How are you sure? There is survey data from MM's indicating "Yes, I gaslight both my wife and OW?"

From what I've seen on this board, most of the MM's who bother to post here seem to feel genuinely unhappy in their marriage. That may not be a statistically valid sample, is there one that contradicts that?

What I DO know from that (with reasonable certainty) is that at least SOME MM's are genuinely unhappy.

I do wonder why so many posters, whatever their experiences and profession may be, feel such an apparent need to replace the OP's narrative with one of their own choosing when they have zero direct experience with the actual person involved.

Perhaps they have an agenda, and some sort of need to attempt to gaslight the OP and attempt to discredit anyone who points out that maybe the OP is actually is right sometimes, in an attempt to drive that agenda?

This is not to pick on anyone specific, but perhaps the driving force behind that agenda is their own unresolved emotional pain? Their MM was a "monster" (truly), or they could never believe their own WH was actually unhappy, or they simply have so much pain they hate ANYONE who cheats for any reason and feel the need to portray them as some sort of monster?

Of course that is all just speculation on my part. At least I'm admitting that.

[MilaVaneela]

Leaving aside the state of the MM’s marriage as we only know what the OP told us, I do sadly believe that the OP expected, based on the language she used and the slant she put on it, that their grand all-encompassing love would have been enough to heal the man’s mental health issues (regardless of whether his issues were organic or environmental, again reserving judgement on the state of the MM’s home life because we only know what the OP told us) and would have been woefully unprepared for the harsh reality of being a supportive caregiver to a mentally ill person. I wish good luck to all involved as it is indeed a sad and difficult situation all the way around. 

[mark clemson]

A bit of follow up, which is important to state because I think it's both true and accurate: I definitely do agree that some significant percent of MMs are indeed lying to both wife and OW. We see that here all the time as well. It's not a simple question to assign a %. Possibly it is the majority, but short of a rather large and sophisticated study (LS is a worldwide forum) I'm not sure how we'd know what the real % is. Maybe it's 20, maybe it's 80. Hard to know.

[Libby1]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:52 PM, Whittliehartz said:

What do I do? How do I let this go? There are way too many people involved in this. I feel lost. 

 

I think a lot of the advice you've had on this thread is a reaction to your characterisation of your affair partner's wife as narcissistic, controlling etc.  Who can really say what the situation is?  If your affair partner has had longstanding mental health problems then that would inevitably take its toll on his wife.  Your perspective, it seems, is that it was the wife who drove him to that state.  But really, at this point figuring out who is to blame for what isn't going to solve the problem you're presenting....which is that your ex lover's wife is harassing you and you want it to stop.   The obvious solution is to instruct a lawyer to send her a letter telling her to stop it or you'll raise an action for a restraining order and ask the court to award expenses against her.  How realistic a letter that would be obviously depends on your jurisdiction.

If you do go down that route, choose your lawyer wisely.  The wrong one could make matters worse.  In a situation like this, you want a balance between acknowledging that there is acrimony and that there are sensitive issues involved - but making it clear that further harassment will not be tolerated.  One thing you should be aware of, though, is that a lawyer's letter like that might just result in her lawyer sending back a counter attack.  Which is all the more likely if there are reasons to believe that you're not really done with this woman's husband.

Unless she's threatening violence against you, a lawyer's letter would only be appropriate if you're completely done with this situation and want nothing more to do with this woman, her husband (your ex affair partner) and the entire situation.  It doesn't really matter what horrible names she's calling you or how bad her language is.  If you're still willingly embroiled in the situation (even if there's no longer a sexual relationship) then that would be more like a conflict in which she's behaving in a foul mouthed and aggressive way than ongoing harassment of somebody who just wants to walk away from the situation. 

That you know so much about his circumstances suggests that you're still in touch with him and that he's complaining to you about his wife and parents controlling him.  If you're still willingly in contact with him, and listening sympathetically to his gripes (which, depending on his mental health issues, might well be destructively enabling behaviour on your part) then I think it would be a lot harder for you to persuade any court that this is a case of harassment rather than an ongoing conflict whereby your behaviour is impacting severely on this woman's private and family life and she's lashing out as a result. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Libby1

[pepperbird]

On 4/20/2020 at 8:21 PM, mark clemson said:

Evidence?

Most of these relationships?  How are you sure? There is survey data from MM's indicating "Yes, I gaslight both my wife and OW?"

From what I've seen on this board, most of the MM's who bother to post here seem to feel genuinely unhappy in their marriage. That may not be a statistically valid sample, is there one that contradicts that?

What I DO know from that (with reasonable certainty) is that at least SOME MM's are genuinely unhappy.

I do wonder why so many posters, whatever their experiences and profession may be, feel such an apparent need to replace the OP's narrative with one of their own choosing when they have zero direct experience with the actual person involved.

Perhaps they have an agenda, and some sort of need to attempt to gaslight the OP and attempt to discredit anyone who points out that maybe the OP is actually is right sometimes, in an attempt to drive that agenda?

This is not to pick on anyone specific, but perhaps the driving force behind that agenda is their own unresolved emotional pain? Their MM was a "monster" (truly), or they could never believe their own WH was actually unhappy, or they simply have so much pain they hate ANYONE who cheats for any reason and feel the need to portray them as some sort of monster?

Of course that is all just speculation on my part. At least I'm admitting that.

yeah, I'm not really thinking that any sort of reliable data can be taken from this site.  It's going to attract people who are unhappy. A WH/WW who is happy in their marriage and also happy having an affair won't reach out to a relationship advice website, except maybe to brag.

[pepperbird]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:11 AM, mark clemson said:

A bit of follow up, which is important to state because I think it's both true and accurate: I definitely do agree that some significant percent of MMs are indeed lying to both wife and OW. We see that here all the time as well. It's not a simple question to assign a %. Possibly it is the majority, but short of a rather large and sophisticated study (LS is a worldwide forum) I'm not sure how we'd know what the real % is. Maybe it's 20, maybe it's 80. Hard to know.

again, this forum can;t be used for any sort of statistical analysis. it would be like using the Penthouse forum( is that even still a thing?) for dating advice.

[mark clemson]

Hi PB - I wasn't thinking that this site should be a data source + definitely agree it would be skewed if it was.

 

On 5/3/2020 at 6:46 AM, pepperbird said:

yeah, I'm not really thinking that any sort of reliable data can be taken from this site.  It's going to attract people who are unhappy. A WH/WW who is happy in their marriage and also happy having an affair won't reach out to a relationship advice website, except maybe to brag.

 

On 5/3/2020 at 6:49 AM, pepperbird said:

again, this forum can;t be used for any sort of statistical analysis. it would be like using the Penthouse forum( is that even still a thing?) for dating advice.

[Dexterr]

This is honestly funny to read, in a sick twisted way. I accused my partner of being "disrespectful", "insecure" and "rude" while I was cheating. Reality? She was a confident woman who had self-respect and didn't let my horrible behaviour bring her down. She tried to speak sense to me but I was too full of myself to listen. Anything I accused her of, I projected that onto her, I was the only one guilty of those things.

It's a pity indeed that his wife didn't sit back like a dog and let you have your way with her husband

I hope you come down from the clouds, wake up and get real. The betrayed woman is traumatised and bleeding on the floor. Have some empathy.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Dexterr