Insecure women get great guys. Confident women get the clingers?

[Hopeful30]

I've recently noticed (in my social surroundings) that insecure women have good, stable boyfriends who meet their standards while the confident, secure women struggle to find love because they attract the needy men who don't bring as much to the table.

Why do you think this is? Typically like attracts like, so I'm surprised to see quality men enter relationships with women who are 'lesser than' (for lack of a better word). By this I mean women who don't bring the same quality into the relationship (ie: man is financially and morally supportive, woman is demanding, spends his money and is emotionally draining/insecure). 

Opposites do not attract. We naturally gravitate towards like-minded people with similar values, lifestyles, etc. How is it that women who are confident and carry their weight struggle in the dating world while 'user' women find themselves in the kind of relationships I only dream of? 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I would guess that your assessment of these women is wrong. And maybe of their boyfriends.  Maybe also your asssessment of yourself.

[Hopeful30]

19 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Men and women desire different things. Most men want a feminine woman and I have noticed that the women other ladies think are a catch for any man, and not so feminine. Those not so feminine ladies tend to attract men that are weak. 

All the women I'm talking about (related to the post) are feminine. This isn't related here.

[elaine567]

Insecure people are often attracted to stable, confident people.
They find life hard to navigate and attaching to a stronger individual they can rely on, makes perfect sense.
Confident stable people can like to play the "saviour" to weaker individuals too.
It makes them feel wanted and needed.

I think some women are so strong, self reliant and "independent" that some men feel they have nothing to bring to the party.

[kendahke]

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

I've recently noticed (in my social surroundings) that insecure women have good, stable boyfriends who meet their standards while the confident, secure women struggle to find love because they attract the needy men who don't bring as much to the table.

Why do you think this is?

Good sex, most likely. For some people, that can blot out a whole lot of mess.

Edited April 10, 2020 by kendahke

[Hopeful30]

14 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I think some women are so strong, self reliant and "independent" that some men feel they have nothing to bring to the party.

Is a woman like this doomed to be single forever?

[d0nnivain]

I can see the damaged women getting strong men.  I don't see confident women putting up with clinging men.  I am a confident woman & only ever had 1 clingy BF but he was a rebound after the break up of a 10 year relationship.  The clinger was verbally demonstrative & willing to do everything for me.  At that point in my life I was enamored with all the sucking up but it got old fast 

No.  confident independent women are not doomed to be alone forever.  They just need to maintain their boundaries & find a man worthy of them.  

When I was still single I threw it out there to the universe to send me a man who was strong enough to let me be week.  DH is a Marine.  It all worked out  

[preraph]

On that note, though I am not generalizing that it's the norm, I have seen many wild and fun guys with some things going for them spend their dating years dating similarly fun and exciting women, and then either have the double standard that these are not women you marry, so they marry someone who will bore them to tears in a couple of years

 

or

seen them marry very mild women, often helpless and clingy, to have children with because they know they won't have the nerve to question their cheating, which will never stop.  

 

I find it very disappointing.  They marry someone boring and mild, but that's not who they love and it's not who they have anything in common with.  Remember when Mr. Big married beige?  That happens.  It's a conflict in the man's character.  

 

As for the Stage 4 clingers, there are men who let themselves be trapped into staying in a relationship because the woman is such a mess that "she isn't stable" and she needs him and he falls for that and lets her guilt him into being with her.  She just never goes away, but she'll put up with whatever else he does at the same time.  And then he has a weak or drunk moment and sleeps with her (again -- because that's how it all got started to begin with) for no other reason but that she's always there available, and presto, she gets pregnant, and she's in his life forever.  And that's no accident.  One of my favorite rockers ended up married to someone that way.  

 

That said, there's all kinds and combinations.  If you start looking at relationships as some men are mainly interested in the woman for sex appeal, it starts making more sense, because some of them don't care about the details if they are attracted.  

One of the most secure couples I saw when younger, they were both gorgeous enough to be models.  This was in the 70s, so sexual harassment was the norm, pretty much.  And she was extremely sexually harassed at work.  And yet, you didn't see her fiance she lived with coming in there.  Both of those people were so confident that they could easily find another partner if something were to happen that they just didn't worry about infidelity.  She and I talked about it.  It was a revelation.    

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by preraph

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

10 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Is a woman like this doomed to be single forever?

Much depends on other factors, like personality.  I have a friend who is very strong and independent and yes, I think she is doomed to be single forever.  But she's also an uber opinionated, gruff feminist who likes to argue :).  

[preraph]

Just being strong and independent is enough to make you want to stay single.  Speaking as someone who is that way.  Not to say if the magic combination had come along, but that is rare.  

[Ami1uwant]

40 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

All the women I'm talking about (related to the post) are feminine. This isn't related here.

I think you are missing the point...

 

you see this in workplace...confident women have qualities a boss would want so they HIRE them..not DATE them.

 

confidence may show aloof, unapproachable, vain, not dateable.

 

 

[preraph]

Only to the insecure and meek....

[Foxhall]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

How is it that women who are confident and carry their weight struggle in the dating world while 'user' women find themselves in the kind of relationships I only dream of? 

It is likely to relate to their ability to connect better on an emotional level,

many guys appreciate a bit of vulnerability in a woman-it makes them easier to talk too or connect with,

Im not sure "confident secure woman" is necessarily at the top of a guy's requirements,

I would think it is either looks and beauty or whether they enjoy the company of the woman, personality i suppose, - i.e connecting with them emotionally-

 

[DKT3]

I once heard a quote most women get exactly what they deserve in a relationship.  At first I thought that's some bull you know what. As I thought more about it, I had to agree. To disagree would mean that those women are not in control of their lives and its direction. 

I think on surface levels women tend to select men on superficial issues only to discover it's not what they want. Instead of holding themselves accountable they make sweeping generalizations  like confident women attract clingers. 

When one looks for bad boys you shouldn't be shocked when you wake up in the morning to a empty purse and your car gone. Likewise,  when you choose a super sensitive dude, dont be surprised when it takes a crowbar to pry him out of you living room.

[SumGuy]

I believe it is just your social circle and luck of the draw.  I haven't experienced the same thing in my life.  In my experience usually both people are as secure as anyone else.  Of course the avoidant-anxious attachment style pairing can be strong.

[Ruby Slippers]

Women with higher levels of education and accomplishment - which generally correlates to higher levels of confidence - have a smaller pool of men at higher levels than themselves, so it's naturally harder to find what they're looking for.

In the majority of cases, women prefer to date/marry men at higher levels than themselves in education and professional accomplishment and are not turned on by or interested in long-term partnership with men at lower levels. Of course there are exceptions, but this is true for the majority. There's typically an issue with respect from her side, and feeling intimidated/emasculated from his side.

I count myself lucky that I'm with a man who's confident and secure enough to truly appreciate and respect confidence and high accomplishment in a woman. In my experience that's not easy to find.

[Ellener]

@Hopeful30 how do you define 'quality men' ( or women )

It may be different to different people.

[Envy123]

Really? In my experience, being with insecure women, even on a platonic level, is akin to having a pet tiger. One minute, they're cute and fluffy - another minute, they can do really terrible things to you which can do some lasting damage. I do gravitate towards confident women because I feel like I can be myself and won't need to feel like walking on eggshells around them.

[elaine567]

@Ruby Slippers I think it is easier for women of higher education and accomplishment to find suitable partners when they are mixing in similar circles, ie if you are still in college, or if you enter s profession where there a large number of similar people, like a large organisation maybe.
Once people disperse into smaller places of work, or end up in small towns or go abroad or are lost in big faceless lonely cities... then the opportunity to meet similar quality people is often  lost.

[Gaeta]

I consider myself an attractive confident sucessful woman. When I was single and dating I was told more than once that I came across as not needing anyone and therefore these men didn't pursue further. The funny thing is I asked my boyfriend of 4,5 years lately what he liked the most about me when we met and he said I came across as not needing anyone lol. See, my bf enjoys my independance he cannot stand neediness. Those men I came across as too independant probably needed a needy woman, or someone to save. 

 

[smackie9]

My husband wanted his equal.....lover of cars, the ability to work on them and the enjoyment of drinking beer...I arrest my case.

Me... I did date shy....then I realize that it's not that cute anymore. As you get older you realize what is best for you...someone who is equal to you, have the same expectations, have lots in common and enjoy each others company when the honeymoon stage is over.

Edited April 10, 2020 by smackie9

[Ami1uwant]

10 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

My husband wanted his equal.....lover of cars, the ability to work on them and the enjoyment of drinking beer...I arrest my case.

Me... I did date shy....then I realize that it's not that cute anymore. As you get older you realize what is best for you...someone who is equal to you, have the same expectations, have lots in common and enjoy each others company when the honeymoon stage is over.

 

 

Sometimes shy shy is a surface impression. That once you get past initial nerves thry open up. It’s different if you are a few dates in.

51 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

@Ruby Slippers I think it is easier for women of higher education and accomplishment to find suitable partners when they are mixing in similar circles, ie if you are still in college, or if you enter s profession where there a large number of similar people, like a large organisation maybe.
Once people disperse into smaller places of work, or end up in small towns or go abroad or are lost in big faceless lonely cities... then the opportunity to meet similar quality people is often  lost.

 

I don’t think higher education equates.

sure women can work in fields that are male dominant but they won’t date coworkers.

 

when in college or just after you have similar network of single people who aren’t carrying around responsibility that comes when you are 10-15 yrs older such as kids working to pay off a mortgage, and other responsibilities with your career.

when you are older say 35+ it can be harder to find people who are available and they have some common areas as you.  Certain avenues you do that allow you to get into large social gathers you have more opportunity to meet people.

 

still in this society women have the advantage because they generally aren’t the pursuers but being pursued. There is a big difference that I think if women had to do it they may understand better The whole merting experience and how it’s handled.

 

[smackie9]

Hey I have dated lots of different guys.. short fat skinny tall shy confident, etc. I know that shy is shy, lacks confidence in many situation which leads to insecurity....not my cup of tea and not enough to let them catch up....because they don't...not when you are a confident woman. It never goes away or do they come out of their shell enough. Nope.

Edited April 10, 2020 by smackie9

[amaysngrace]

4 hours ago, preraph said:

Just being strong and independent is enough to make you want to stay single.  Speaking as someone who is that way.  Not to say if the magic combination had come along, but that is rare.  

This is so true.  It’s hard to find a quality man the older you get so you do without and just keep going.  

I finally met a man I think may be worthy but that took years, so many I lost count.

[alphamale]

4 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

Is a woman like this doomed to be single forever?

if she doesn't lower her standards, yes