Insecure women get great guys. Confident women get the clingers?

[chillii]

So now a man's needy because he likes a warm woman or whatever else he likes if it's not her, right, more hogwash excuses just because men don't like her basically , there's something wrong with him , ok.  l don't think you've understood one word guys have bothered trying to say in this thread  And no his usually pretty clear about her interest she'll quite often be the one doing the pushing actually.

l don't think women have any idea whatsoever of how often guys see and come across the things and traits that they do , in women.   PS , they can only try to tell it the way they've seen and experienced things in women themselves, when someone asks and they've usually seen these things 100s of times so it's no point shooting the messengers .

Edited April 17, 2020 by chillii

[chillii]

Actually the things or traits l'm talking about you can pick at a glance in rl she wouldn't need to say a word tbh. lf she does only get clingers or whatever maybe that's because it's all she can get who knows.

Edited April 17, 2020 by chillii

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, chillii said:

So now a man's needy because he likes a warm woman or whatever else he likes if it's not her, right, more hogwash excuses just because men don't like her basically , there's something wrong with him

No, that's not it.
That is not what Emilie meant
She was saying a strong and independent educated woman faced with a guy she doesn't want  will sometimes try to dissuade him by putting on a cold, haughty exterior, not because she is cold and haughty but because she wants to get rid of him. He is basically not what she is looking for, nor I guess what other similar women are looking for.
Some guys may then get the impression that such woman are cold  and haughty... 
 

[chillii]

Yeah l know that's what she meant but she was also suggesting guys don't read her right and what l was saying was there's not much you need to read when she's trying to crack onto him.

[SumGuy]

4 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

.... I'm trying to find a rational explanation to what seems like, at first glance, simply an assortment of ready-made assumptions and stereotypes...

What?  This is SPARTA!...I mean the internet.   Simple, ready-made assumptions and stereotypes is the norm, it creeps even into the mathematics sections of stackexchange.

[Emilie Jolie]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

Yeah l know that's what she meant but she was also suggesting guys don't read her right and what l was saying was there's not much you need to read when she's trying to crack onto him.

I didn't suggest anything. What I'm actually saying is that often times, a woman will show coldness as a protective mechanism to spare herself being approached by men she has no interest in. It seems like you have completely misread my post. 

Apparently you are swamped with cold educated women with all these negative traits who 'crack on' to you; I have never seen this play out IRL but good for you, I guess? 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

 

3 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I didn't suggest anything. What I'm actually saying is that often times, a woman will show coldness as a protective mechanism to spare herself being approached by men she has no interest in. It seems like you have completely misread my post. 

Apparently you are swamped with cold educated women with all these negative traits who 'crack on' to you; I have never seen this play out IRL but good for you, I guess. 

 

 

Not just educated women do this.  Women who aren't interested in a man have done this since the beginning of time.  Little girls do this to boys they don't like.

Edited April 17, 2020 by stillafool

[Emilie Jolie]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Not just educated women do this.  Women who aren't interested in a man have done this since the beginning of time.  Little girls do this to boys they don't like.

Right. For some bizarre reason, when an educated or accomplished woman specifically does that, she's an ice block. Makes no sense. This goes back to stereotypes and ready made judgements.

[chillii]

43 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I didn't suggest anything. What I'm actually saying is that often times, a woman will show coldness as a protective mechanism to spare herself being approached by men she has no interest in. It seems like you have completely misread my post. 

Apparently you are swamped with cold educated women with all these negative traits who 'crack on' to you; I have never seen this play out IRL but good for you, I guess? 

 

l know that and yeah of course there will be and that would be easily picked too , nothing to do with what l meant you've completely misinterpreted , predictable .

Andaaaa nah , not lately haha , ahh , actually except for my woman who did 14yrs at uni l won't say in what area , but l have known and been around many, l've never said all or assumed anything though, as l've said you don't have to.

PS . and if you happened to see one of my earlier posts l've also got 6 extremely highly educated sisters and a couple of very good friends and most of have been happily married to very good men for years , yawn , so bored with this one so on that note you can all argue among yourselves l'm out.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by chillii

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Right. For some bizarre reason, when an educated or accomplished woman specifically does that, she's an ice block. Makes no sense. This goes back to stereotypes and ready made judgements.

Emilie, you're making good points, but what confuses me is when a man first approaches a woman, how the heck would he know how educated or accomplished she is?  Is this something he can sense by her vibe or something? 

I think it's basic human nature that when initially approached, or while on a first date, and this goes for both men and women, if not interested, we act cold, indifferent. 

So not understanding the judgment towards women, specifically educated, accomplished women; both men and women can act cold when not wanting to escalate things, which imo is the right thing to do so as to not mislead anyone.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by poppyfields

[preraph]

If the person isn't a stranger on the sidewalk, he probably knows a little something about her.  

[chillii]

ps , hell yeah , sometimes from 100 paces , they often have a totally different look and way , extremely pickable. But you can get a surprise too . Adiosa.

[thefooloftheyear]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

She was saying a strong and independent educated woman faced with a guy she doesn't want  will sometimes try to dissuade him by putting on a cold, haughty exterior, not because she is cold and haughty but because she wants to get rid of him. He is basically not what she is looking for, nor I guess what other similar women are looking for.
Some guys may then get the impression that such woman are cold  and haughty... 
 

But generally,  it's not men that are saying it's an issue...so that would not apply...And a lot of men that aren't dating or chasing those women make an observation about a particular woman and her general demeanor....She has no need to run that guy off  by an act of being cold, etc...

It's women that are often using these traits as a reason why they struggle...."I'm too intimidating...I'm too smart....I make too much money...I'm too confident/independent/educated"...etc..

One man's opinion here?  Its a bunch of BS..None of those traits are considered to be a negative so long as a woman is attractive on the other typical traits most guys are looking for....They become icing on the cake...

At the end of the day, it all boils down to the same "a poor craftsman blames his tools"...

TFY

Edited April 17, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, preraph said:

If the person isn't a stranger on the sidewalk, he probably knows a little something about her.  

True, but it's neither here nor there; I think it goes without saying that no one, no matter how educated or accomplished, is going to be acting all warm and fuzzy towards a person they have no interest in and/or don't want to talk to.

I've made the massive mistake in the past of being "friendly" with men I had zero interest in, and it caused heaps of problems for me.

 

[Emilie Jolie]

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Emilie, you're making good points, but what confuses me is when a man first approaches a woman, how the heck would he know how educated or accomplished she is?  Is this something he can sense by her vibe or something? 

I think it's basic human nature that when initially approached, or while on a first date, and this goes for both men and women, if not interested, we act cold, indifferent. 

So not understanding the judgment towards women, specifically educated, accomplished women; both men and women can act cold when not wanting to escalate things, which imo is the right thing to do so as to not mislead anyone.

 

I don't get it either, so went on the assumption that it has to be on OLD (which I'm not familiar with) or as Preraph says, they know a little something about the background. Or they judge appearance, accent, elocution, etc. As I say, ready-made judgements or misconceptions.

[chillii]

4 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

But generally,  it's not men that are saying it's an issue...so that would not apply...And a lot of men that aren't dating or chasing those women make an observation about a particular woman and her general demeanor....She has no need to run that guy off  by an act of being cold, etc...

It's women that are often using these traits as a reason why they struggle...."I'm too intimidating...I'm too smart....I make too much money...I'm too confident/independent/educated"...etc..

One man's opinion here?  Its a bunch of BS..None of those traits are considered to be a negative so long as a woman is attractive on the other typical traits most guys are looking for....They become icing on the cake...

At the end of the day, it all boils down to the same "a poor craftsman blames his tools"...

TFY

 

Exactly.

[preraph]

You have to realize it may not be a problem for guys they want to attract, but they may be mostly getting attention from ones they don't.   Or you may date one and find out he's not okay that you make more money than him.  That has happened to me, and I wasn't by any means rolling in money.  His ego couldn't take it.  There are plenty of men looking for women poorer and less accomplished than them.  Seen it over and over in my lifetime.  Because they feel it gives them leverage and more power in the relationship.  Since most men are focused on their sexual desire, it's not going to be the first thing that comes up.  They will take a shot at attractive women of all ilks, but if they feel they have some lack of power in the relationship due to either her money or her independence, a lot of them can't handle that, and it's not because the woman is mean to them.  It's just not the balance they want.  And that's fine.  But once they know they can't handle it, they might want to stop getting involved with them just for sex.  

[Emilie Jolie]

There are 2 things here:

A cold woman,who may or may not be educated, accomplished, etc or whatever.

A non-interested woman acting cold, who may or may not be educated, accomplished, etc or whatever.

Being educated, independent, accomplished and single make you neither of these things by default.

IRL, I am surrounded by accomplished, independent people - they are no more or less standoffish as anyone else.

Men who believe this to be a trend with educated, accomplished women are making assumptions based on stereotypes, or really, really, really unlucky...

Edited April 17, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Woggle]

Truly independent and accomplished I have found usually have great personalities. The difference is in the doing vs the saying. Women who make something of themselves, are intelligent and make an honest living are worlds different than who go around talking about how strong and independent they are. You have gold diggers talking about how independent they are because they are getting one over on men. They view relationships as an us vs them gender war that they feel they are losing if they any kind of niceness or tenderness towards a man.

[preraph]

There's nothing wrong with a woman saying they're strong.  It's all in the context.  Like I have told people I'm the strongest person I know but that even I was brought down by depression and circumstances.

 

Men I knew could tell I was strong.  Some men were intimidated by it, and others weren't.  Strong women are often hated by as many people as the ones who know and love them just because someone doesn't like the type.  

[thefooloftheyear]

Bottom line is women changed and what men wanted didn't....

TFY

[preraph]

Also, I was often cold and aloof, especially if I was out alone maybe seeing a band and just didn't want to be distracted.   It's a lot of pressure when you're in a club and someone is staring at you and you know they're just working up the nerve to approach and you don't know them and you aren't attracted to them, haven't seen them around, know nothing about them, and oftentimes they don't even really fit in with the crowd.  I mean, I guess some men would say it's a good problem to have, but for women, no interest is usually preferable to unwanted interest because there have historically been problems from that. 

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Bottom line is women changed and what men wanted didn't....

It would take way too much to get into the veracity of that statement, and in a sense it doesn't matter as there are plenty of men (and i would say these are the ones worth having) that are not put off by the "cold/stand-offish" public persona, or frankly even read it that way.  

That's the kind of statement I've seen used to tell women to not be so smart, and stroke his ego by being more passive (oops, I think the words used when this advice is given are receptive and "feminine")...it is the human equivalent of acting submissive so the other dog doesn't feel threatened or bite you. 

Of course it is much harder to impress such women, just being an in shape male and with some money ain't going to cut it, like it would be with a celebrity or anyone who has "made it."   You are going to have to connect with the person and bring as much value (in what they value not what you want them to value) to the table as them.  That is really no different than with anyone else, except the bar is just much higher, but as said before a poor craftsman blames his tools.

All that is really just for the women who are accomplished to let them know there are men out there who get them and want them.   I really don't want anymore competition from other men in this regard, so if you are a man...yes these women are "horrible" you don't want that, don't even try, in fact buy me a drink as I'm in the trenches facing this "horror" for you....it was they who were wrong and for them here's a song

[Woggle]

The flaws I describe would be unattractive in men as well. Most women don't want a cold and stand-offish men and most don't want a man who treats dating like a gender war to be won. Never in my life have I ever asked for what I was not willing to deliver myself.

[thefooloftheyear]

45 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

It would take way too much to get into the veracity of that statement, and in a sense it doesn't matter as there are plenty of men (and i would say these are the ones worth having) that are not put off by the "cold/stand-offish" public persona, or frankly even read it that way.  

That's the kind of statement I've seen used to tell women to not be so smart, and stroke his ego by being more passive (oops, I think the words used when this advice is given are receptive and "feminine")...it is the human equivalent of acting submissive so the other dog doesn't feel threatened or bite you. 

Of course it is much harder to impress such women, just being an in shape male and with some money ain't going to cut it, like it would be with a celebrity or anyone who has "made it."   You are going to have to connect with the person and bring as much value (in what they value not what you want them to value) to the table as them.  That is really no different than with anyone else, except the bar is just much higher, but as said before a poor craftsman blames his tools.

All that is really just for the women who are accomplished to let them know there are men out there who get them and want them.   I really don't want anymore competition from other men in this regard, so if you are a man...yes these women are "horrible" you don't want that, don't even try, in fact buy me a drink as I'm in the trenches facing this "horror" for you....it was they who were wrong and for them here's a song

You can "let them know" all you want....It wont bring them any closer to finding the reasons...The reason for the thread(and others like it)_ these women are "searching"  for reasons why they can't seem to find a proper man to connect with.. So they throw out stuff like they are too educated, too accomplished ,too whatever....

There are millions of successful and accomplished/well to do women that aren't searching for anything....They found it...I know tons of them ...They don't struggle, because they understand what men want and are keen to bring that to the table.......along with the other stuff....They have the correct 'balance:...But, sadly you wont find them on here...

You have mischaracterized the intent of the posted quote....It has nothing at all to do with "keeping women down"....

Equality is great and I am for one, thrilled to see women achieving all they have...They deserved it...The only issue here is that if "something" is lost during that process, then its not going to be something that desirable guys are going to warm up to....Its not that more complicated than that...Balance...creating a Yin/Yang...not a Yin/Yin...

TFY

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by thefooloftheyear