Insecure women get great guys. Confident women get the clingers?

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm not saying this is true of the OP, and I admittedly didn't read the whole thread, but when I hear women say this stuff, it reeks of the same old..."women don't like nice guys, they only go for the bad boy types" sob stories that some men bang on about.....

Some women like to believe that somehow men are withered into a ball by strong/accomplished and independent women, and maybe some are, but I haven't seen that at all...Most appreciate that their women aren't weakling dumbells with a pair of tits...And many are well aware of the benefit of a partner capable of pulling their weight, both financially and otherwise...

I do think though, if somewhere along the way of becoming "confident" by way of work achievements, education, financial independence, etc, they lost(or never had) the warmth and femininity that draw men to them, then that would be an issue....That being said, confident, worldly, independent, whatever. isn't the problem by itself and just reinforces the idea that people tend to look in the wrong areas when trying to figure out why its not working for them(dating, etc)....

TFY

Edited April 13, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[mark clemson]

I do agree this may be less common than the opening post suggests. One factor may be that people can show age differently, so some mismatches out there may be due to one partner "aging better". If it's the male, perhaps the woman becomes a bit more "clingy" due to worry? Dunno.

This may go against the grain somewhat but in addition to many great points that have no doubt been made (I haven't read the entire thread), I'd guess that many if not most people value emotional security in a LTR. By the time they're adults, many men have been emotionally hurt by a partner who walked or found someone else, etc. (Of course, that's true for women as well.) That confident, independent woman at least seems like she's capable of walking at any time (and she probably is). If she's attractive too, she may give the impression that lots of guys will chase her and she'll have many options. If you're going to marry that woman and happen to earn more, the stakes get even higher.

So, some men, even "great guys who could have any woman they wanted" (never true, BTW) may deliberately select slightly more insecure women. They may believe (or unconsciously sense) that it gives them an edge in actually keeping their LT mate around for the LT.

So, that could be one factor. Possibly there is something similar going on with women who seem mismatched to their partners, dunno. Certainly women are famous for seeking men they can "fix" - but perhaps there's something else going on there...

[stillafool]

Yeah Mark, I hear what you're saying but most men think it's somewhat of a status symbol to have a pretty wife by their side.  People don't want someone that no one else wants.

[littleblackheart]

47 minutes ago, Woggle said:

My wife and I don't need each other to survive either but we also don't need our friends to survive but we still greatly value each other and our friends. We don't have a take it or leave it kind of attitude towards people who are supposed to mean something to us. Not wanting a partner who has that kind of mentality does not mean that a man is scared of strong and independent women.

Something must be lost in translation, or maybe you're making a general point, but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? There's no link, to me, between being independent and strong and valuing your partner / having a take or leave attitude? 

[Woggle]

People who care about status and that goes for men and women have already lost in life. Having a good quality of life and the resources to fund that matters more than impressing people who could barely care if you live or die.

[Woggle]

23 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

Something must be lost in translation, or maybe you're making a general point, but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? There's no link, to me, between being independent and strong and valuing your partner / having a take or leave attitude? 

There is none but there are some women who are anti-male who turn it into that. If you ask me they should just go all the way and reject men completely but some of them still date but have the play him before he plays you mentality and or always keep them at arms length. It is pointless trying to have a happy relationship with somebody like this.

[preraph]

There's plenty of guys dating who hate women too, Woggle, only because they want sex.  I really don't know why a woman would continue to date men if she hated them.  I guess that's what she grew up thinking was normal.  

[Woggle]

2 minutes ago, preraph said:

There's plenty of guys dating who hate women too, Woggle, only because they want sex.  I really don't know why a woman would continue to date men if she hated them.  I guess that's what she grew up thinking was normal.  

I fully agree and no woman in her right mind should give those men the time of day. Some people desire what they hate. To be fair there was a time in my life I was not too fond of women as many old timer here know all too well and I still dated them but even back then I knew I needed to change. 

[littleblackheart]

I see, thank you for clarifying. Are you making a general point about strong and independent women specifically, who in your experience are generally anti-male? I didn't get that impression from the OP, or any female poster on the thread, fwiw, so I wasn't sure what you were referring to? 

[carhill]

1 hour ago, simpycurious said:

That makes sense Carhill and thanks for the explanation.  I suppose the term CLINGY can be taken in various ways.  That's why you hire a cook if you cannot cook yourself (your prime rib reference)

I first got the explanation when 'hovering' too much in the kitchen, having cooked for myself for decades, after getting married. A little was OK. 👍

TBH, my anecdotes from six+ decades flow all over the place, no definable patterns that I can discern. Also, for those who've been together for decades, what things look like now can often have no bearing on any other time in their relationship or marriage since people change. The couple in the anecdote weren't yet really defined, simply two teenagers who got pregnant and got married and set off on life's adventure. I doubt either were intrinsically good, bad or indifferent, rather still evolving into who they would later become. To a certain extent that evolution continues throughout life.

 

[Woggle]

8 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

I see, thank you for clarifying. Are you making a general point about strong and independent women specifically, who in your experience are generally anti-male? I didn't get that impression from the OP, or any female poster on the thread, fwiw, so I wasn't sure what you were referring to? 

Of course not and this has gotten off topic but the constant messages that we get from some corners about how men are not needed does play into that. Nobody wants to feel like they are disposable to a partner.

[preraph]

Woggle, I can assure you that not every woman who feels she does not need a man makes them feel disposable when they are in a relationship with them.  Like someone else pointed out, these women just have a lower threshold for what they will put up with.  They aren't going to cling to an abusive relationship or a lazy one or a cheating one for long.  And just because you don't need someone doesn't mean you don't love them and enjoy being with them, by any means.  

[an0nym0us123]

6 hours ago, poppyfields said:

So you're attraction is driven by a women's fears and insecurities, need for reassurance?  

Not judging, just asking, I find that interesting.  As there are some men (and women if roles were reversed) who would be very turned off by that.

Just goes to show ya, there's someone for everyone, our attractions are subjective and to each his/her own.

I think there should be a balance. A woman can be strong and confident, but also not afraid to be vulnerable with her man.  Allowing yourself to be vulnerable is super important imo. 

A woman who can find that balance can be irresistible to many men. 

A feeling of being needed is attractive to me. That does not mean i would want her messaging me wondering where i am all day. But getting selfies and good morning messages is nice. I have dated others and it felt like they did not give a dam if you existed or not. They were strong independent types, busy with everything and if they just happened to have a spare hour you might be lucky to see them. Not something i am interested in anymore

[Woggle]

30 minutes ago, preraph said:

Woggle, I can assure you that not every woman who feels she does not need a man makes them feel disposable when they are in a relationship with them.  Like someone else pointed out, these women just have a lower threshold for what they will put up with.  They aren't going to cling to an abusive relationship or a lazy one or a cheating one for long.  And just because you don't need someone doesn't mean you don't love them and enjoy being with them, by any means.  

Maybe but I have seen many cases in my lifetime where a woman almost gets a kick out of making a man feel like he is not valued and she is doing a favor by even entertaining him. 

[thefooloftheyear]

42 minutes ago, an0nym0us123 said:

A feeling of being needed is attractive to me. That does not mean i would want her messaging me wondering where i am all day. But getting selfies and good morning messages is nice. I have dated others and it felt like they did not give a dam if you existed or not. They were strong independent types, busy with everything and if they just happened to have a spare hour you might be lucky to see them. Not something i am interested in anymore

I'm the complete opposite....I already have plenty of people in my life that need me for one reason or another...I don't want any more....😄

But there's a world of middle ground between the needy/clingy and complete  apathy....I know some guys like the dynamic of being needed by a woman.....It gives them a feeling of purpose..

What men should strive for, IMO,  is a woman that wants you.....not one that needs you....In that case, they'll be glad and look forward to make time for you..regardless of what they have going on in their life...

TFY

Edited April 13, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[preraph]

14 minutes ago, Woggle said:

Maybe but I have seen many cases in my lifetime where a woman almost gets a kick out of making a man feel like he is not valued and she is doing a favor by even entertaining him. 

Well, I have seen one such woman myself.  It was an aunt of mine.  She was abusive to everyone.  The way she treated her husband was appalling, and of course this was before most people got divorces.  He had emphysema and of course wouldn't stop smoking and she just berated him all the time and right in front of the grandkids she had to raise because her son was a drunk.  She was verbally abusive to all of them.  It was an equal opportunity type thing, though.  

 

I'm happy to say though that in my long life, 67 years, this is the only such woman I've seen like this.  I've seen more abusive men.  

Edited April 13, 2020 by preraph

[Woggle]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

Well, I have seen one such woman myself.  It was an aunt of mine.  She was abusive to everyone.  The way she treated her husband was appalling, and of course this was before most people got divorces.  He had emphysema and of course wouldn't stop smoking and she just berated him all the time and right in front of the grandkids she had to raise because her son was a drunk.  She was verbally abusive to all of them.  It was an equal opportunity type thing, though.  

 

I'm happy to say though that in my long life, 67 years, this is the only such woman I've seen like this.  I've seen more abusive men.  

What you talk about is a bit different. I am talking about women who always have that one foot out the door mentality and people like that just do not make for good relationships. In order for any good relationship to thrive and be successful you need investment on both parts and these kinds of women view any type of investment as a threat to their independence and identity. 

[preraph]

10 minutes ago, Woggle said:

What you talk about is a bit different. I am talking about women who always have that one foot out the door mentality and people like that just do not make for good relationships. In order for any good relationship to thrive and be successful you need investment on both parts and these kinds of women view any type of investment as a threat to their independence and identity. 

Well, then I don't know why they are even staying.  They should just leave.  There's a lot of men like that too:  My way or the highway.  And too many women put up with them. 

[an0nym0us123]

1 hour ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I'm the complete opposite....I already have plenty of people in my life that need me for one reason or another...I don't want any more....😄

But there's a world of middle ground between the needy/clingy and complete  apathy....I know some guys like the dynamic of being needed by a woman.....It gives them a feeling of purpose..

What men should strive for, IMO,  is a woman that wants you.....not one that needs you....In that case, they'll be glad and look forward to make time for you..regardless of what they have going on in their life...

TFY

Overly needy is not attractive at all, no one wants to be hassled or sent "why are you not replying to my message" type texts.

A woman who wants/needs you is attractive as long as it is done in a charming way. Hard to explain really.

A woman acting like an alpha male is no something that attracts me. But everyone is different

 

[Cookiesandough]

It’s OK to like clingers and needy people. I mean they need love too and I’m sure some people are into that. . Personally, I can’t stand it and guys who need constant validation and contact from me via text etc are a big nope for me. 

[lonelyplanetmoon]

Q to the men.  Would you be offended if a woman you were dating said this?

‘I don’t need a man but I want a man. I don’t want just any man. I want you and only you”

 

 

[Woggle]

3 minutes ago, lonelyplanetmoon said:

Q to the men.  Would you be offended if a woman you were dating said this?

‘I don’t need a man but I want a man. I don’t want just any man. I want you and only you”

 

 

Not really but again I have never heard of anybody telling their friends they don't need them. You can survive without but they are valued in your life. If you are in a committed relationship with somebody they should be valued in your life. I don't technically need my wife but I would never just blurt that out to her.

[chillii]

10 hours ago, Woggle said:

You have not heard in the context I have heard it used. I once saw a woman hold up an empty bag of chips to her husband and tell him that he is more disposable than that bag and then threw it away. 

Hope his next move was in giving her the ass. ps , and in throwing her back out into the singles world, few more years of that might teach her a bit more respect for the next one , although those kind never learn so l doubt it actually.

Edited April 14, 2020 by chillii

[Emilie Jolie]

7 hours ago, Woggle said:

I don't technically need my wife but I would never just blurt that out to her

Again, 'I don't need a man or a woman' does not equal 'I think my partner is disposable.' 

Personally, I had partners before my SO, I survived all my breakups, I was single for a time, I was fine then too, so I don't need a man. I also don't want to be with any man. Going straight for the worst possible meaning seems a bit far fetched, with respect.

[Angel29]

There could be a number of reasons. I know some people and they come across as confident but behind closed doors it's a different story and they are extremely anxious. Others may be codependent, lonely or like to play the rescuer. If someone is playing the rescuer they may resort to coercion and manipulation tactics which is not good. Rescuers may suffer from low self esteem themselves so go for a mate that is lower in value than them. Lucky escapes from these people I say. It is best to find someone on the same level.