Feel 'Expired' as a 37-year-old single woman. am I?

[Dog Lover 82]

I'm a 37-year-old woman who has had two long-term relationships and now I've been single for about three years. I'd really like to find a long-term committed relationship with someone and maybe even start a family. My main problem throughout my dating life has been shyness, which has made it hard for me to meet quality men (so I ended up dating not-so-quality men). The two boyfriends I did have were also apparently intimidated by my education (I had more advanced degrees than both of them, which is apparently still a problem). This has resulted in me kind of "underselling" myself to other men, because I don't want to intimidate them.

I'm smart, funny and kind, and I have taken very good care of myself over the years, so people often mistake me for still being in my late 20s. However, I've read a lot of articles and opinion pieces that state that women my age are either desperate or expired. I don't feel like either, personally, but I guess I want an opinion as to whether it's a pipe dream at this point to try to look for a good quality guy around my age or if I have to start going way older. Would a guy who wants to have a family be willing to date a woman at my age? I've tried a dating app recently, and I've been really surprised at how many guys in their 20s swipe yes for me. Nothing has come of it yet, however, so I don't really know what to make of their real interest level.

 

[preraph]

Oh, anything could happen, but yeah, men can tell when you're older.  They just can.  Same way younger women know a guy is older, different era, different clothing, different key words.  

 

Are you open to guys who already are divorced with kids?  That would open up the field for you a bit.  I never could have done that, but I think most people are nicer than me!!  

 

Also, you have to find your crowd.  You're dumbing down hiding your education.  I really don't think all guys would penalize you for that.  But you should try to find out where the educated crowd hangs and what they do and join in and do it.  It sounds like you've already settled twice and it still didn't work out.  Why not really put your assets out there on education and shoot for your equal.  You probably will find mostly divorced men, and some of them still want to date women in their 20s, but again, if you can stand having someone else's kids, that evens things out because most 20-somethings want no part of that, nor should they!  Maybe volunteer somewhere there would be divorced dads.  Charities like dressing kids for proms (they're almost out of the house!), the zoo but out front, not behind the scenes, and best idea yet, volunteer for your police department doing things like Crime Watch or helping set up their community meetings, setting the chairs out, helping with the food, etc.  Think how many men you'd meet doing that.  They have a lot of events they need help with.  And not only that, you also meet neighbors doing that.  

[FMW]

You are definitely not expired.  You're not going to have as many options as you did when you were 20, but then again all you need is one good guy, you don't have to have tons to choose from.  Just keep yourself out there where you can meet men, as preraph outlined above.  Stay positive.  

[rjc149]

I'm going to lay down some potentially harsh truths for you, so I hope that's why you came here. 

A woman's sex appeal is largely determined by her physical appearance and fertility, which at 37, is declining. 

Post-graduate degrees and career success do not, unfortunately, make you more attractive or desirable to high-quality men. Insecure men may find it intimidating, but most men simply won't care. Intelligence and education trump looks to very few men in the dating market.

Many post-feminist era women take the approach of 'education/career first, marriage/family second,' only to find that the men who are equivalent in education/career status are either taken, or have access to younger, more fertile women. 

At 37, the fairy tale of meeting a single, attractive, 'high-quality' man with a clean slate marriage/kids-wise, who will date a woman his own age despite being able to date women much younger, becomes more unlikely as you close in on 40.

I will assure you, however, that if you've taken care of yourself, you still make the effort to look good, and you don't act desperate or feel expired as you've said, an objectively attractive man in your age range will pick up on that and be intrigued. Plenty of good men are looking to settle down with a woman he can relate to, not just eye-candy or a baby-popper. And plenty of women 35-45 still look pretty hot when they're not letting themselves go. 

So it comes down to your criteria of a 'high-quality' man, whether they are realistic, and whether you're willing to adjust your expectations to reality. If single divorced dads, men with a decade on you, or men not equivalent to you in education and status are off the table, you can always proudly tell your cats that you never settled for less than you deserved.

[mortensorchid]

I feel you.  I am 45 and I also feel like I am expired or too old.  I thought I had found someone last fall but it wasn't to be.  It's been about 10 years since my last real bf.  I had a rejection that I have written about on this forum quite a bit which just ripped me to the core and I am still broken from it.  Lost the love of my life about 15 years ago as well.  I live a very isolated life - I am a teacher who now teaches online so I operate from home most of the time.

If I knew the answer, I would tell you, but I don't have it for you.  Just keep moving forward. 

[NomiMalone]

Tina, why not give the 20s guys a go? You just might really get along, and who’s to say they’re not looking for a serious relationship and kids etc. 

[Cookiesandough]

I noticed a lot of the people here who say “im too old to find love” usually didn’t have any luck when they were 22 either, but for whatever reason are blaming it on age now. Anyway, you’re not. My mom had me at 40. Plenty of women start families later 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Woggle]

It has nothing to do with age. A woman could be 60 and if she has the qualities that your average man finds attractive she can do just fine in the love department.

[chillii]

rjc best described the education thing and a lot more but nah , l wouldn't call 37 expired at all especially being so good for your age but it would be harder for sure wanting a family just because most guys in your range have probably married by then even if divorced now.Age wise 5 or 10 either way is nothing although l don't care what anyone says and yeah there's always exceptions but l'd be saying 5 or 6 younger max , you don't wanna end up yet another broken family but any younger's gonna be a risky bet long term and you don't wanna waste 5 or 10 yrs finding that out .

Edited April 12, 2020 by chillii

[littleblackheart]

OP, my sister is 38, is stunning inside and out, owns her home, has a great high paying job and is absolutely lovely. She lives near a big metropolis where there are many 35-40 highly educated never married/no kids men looking for similar. She uses online dating, and tbh, she is still single because of a combination of extreme introversion / social anxiety and a very high standards, not because of her age or any lack of options. 

Over 45s men are the ones most likely to go for younger women for a stab at a second family, but a handful of friends around me that are now in their 40s have managed to find age-appropriate partners. As @preraphsaid, you need to make yourself visible and accept that may mean being more flexible in your criteria. For example, date divorced men with kids, or a man who may not be highly educated but who at least is very established in his job and ambitious. 

In the meantime, don't worry about being single and try to follow the motto 'everything happens for a reason'.

Edited April 12, 2020 by littleblackheart

[elaine567]

The problem here is not really age or education, the problem is shyness and not being in a place to meet suitable men.
You stayed too long with two guys who were not right for you and I guess they initially chose you, you didn't choose them.
As the years went on, you became aware of the incompatibility, as did they.
Truth is many men cannot cope with educated women and the men who are looking for "younger" I guess definitely cannot cope, so it is  not a problem that you would be of no interest to them. Such superficial guys are not "high quality".
Beware of very much older guys too, same problem, not really looking for a smart woman, they are looking for an ego boost.
I guess the 20+ year old guys are not serious prospects either.

Your pool may be small, but it is always small for anyone who is looking for someone special.
Yes you could "settle", grab the first guy who shows interest, but I guess it will just go pear-shaped again, maybe faster then previously as you now know what too look for.
However you may end up with some children, so perhaps not all bad.
If you are desperate for children, then maybe forget searching for "the one" and consider having a child without a man.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, littleblackheart said:

a man who may not be highly educated but who at least is very established in his job and ambitious.

All very well as regards money, but education is not the same as money, though it can get mixed up.
Many educated people want to talk to and be with other educated people as they are the people who "get" them. 
Women especially need that "connection".

[littleblackheart]

I have had intellectually stimulating conversations with people of all sorts of background. I am in academia, and can say that high education can also mean snobbishness and close mindedness. On its own, education is not a criterion to judge people, unless you really are narrow minded. There are plenty of intellectually curious people without a degree. What you seem to be talking about is social class. Totally different thing.

The problem, as OP has noticed herself, is the disparity in perception; society is literally telling highly educated women that men who are not academically qualified are 'beneath' them. It takes a very successful man in his field not to be bothered about these sorts of reductive perceptions. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by littleblackheart

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, littleblackheart said:

I have had intellectually stimulating conversations with people of all sorts of background.

Yes, but would you date them? Would they date you?
Snobbishnss and closemindedness work both ways.
Yes "class" is involved. 

[littleblackheart]

Of course I would. Yes, there is such a thing as reverse snobbery and it is offputting, but to make it sound like all men who are not academically educated are also intellectually deficient is wrong, and is the reason some men may feel 'intimidated'. 

I have a pocket full of academic diplomas but I don't consider myself of any higher intellectual value than my electrician, lovely family guy who has travelled way more than me, is politically very active, well read, and has put his kids through private school to give them a better start in life, is better off financially and owns 3 small family-run businesses.

I'm not trying to convince you @elaine567 btw, I'm just telling you what I know from real life. You can share common values and ethos without having the same education background. Taken on its own, education is not the best criterion to judge someone on, imo.

 

[Interstellar]

If you look like you’re in your 20’s and take great care of yourself you need not worry. Guys will be all over you like mozzarella cheese on pizza at least online, but in real life you wouldn’t get approached as much. That’s just the way it is now, people are staring at their phones too much nowadays. I still see some guys ask women for phone numbers in real life, like there’s one at a Chick fil A so it happens. But I live in a big city. You said it in the beginning of your sentence: plenty of guys swipe right on you. But a real relationship with a sincere guy that you’re physically attracted too will take time. That diamond in the rough guy...you only need one good one. Guys couldn’t care less about your education really. It’s not a prerequisite. 

You sound like you just started online dating no need to rush. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Interstellar

[Blind-Sided]

10 hours ago, rjc149 said:

..... Post-graduate degrees and career success do not, unfortunately, make you more attractive or desirable to high-quality men. ....

... At 37, the fairy tale of meeting a single, attractive, 'high-quality' man with a clean slate marriage/kids-wise, who will date a woman his own age despite being able to date women much younger, becomes more unlikely as you close in on 40.

I'm going to disagree with that a little. I am also educated, and know the importance of being with someone who you can connect with mentally. Over the years, I've met girls who were very pretty, but were dumb as a bag of nails, and it was a huge turn off that I couldn't hold a conversation with them. But on the other side of that... I know people who didn't go to college, and they are intelligent. (One of my close guy friends is this way)

So, after I decided to start dating, I was introduced to several girls. One was in communication, and I was warned that she was a little... umm.... "Blond." LOL (FYI, that came from my female friend who is a Chemist, and knows me) But one of the girls I was introduced to is similar to our OP.  She is a lawyer, and educated.  She spent her young adult life in school, and focused on her career.  Because of that, she is late 30's, and single.   I really found her interesting, and was honestly the focus in my head.  BUT, I put her on the back burner (so to speak) until I knew if I was mentally ready to be with anyone again. I really didn't want to blow it with her because of my hard divorce. (Oh, she does family law, so it could have come in handy. LOL)

So... what does that story have to do with anything?  it's to show that there are guys out there you can connect with, and find intelligence attractive.

To the second point... you are right.  OP... you will have to probably look at guys who may have been married, and probably have a kid already, and are probably older. (and may not want more kids) That group of men will appreciate a younger woman who is strong in her career and is educated. (like me. 47) 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[Emilie Jolie]

1 hour ago, Interstellar said:

Guys couldn’t care less about your education really.

Untrue, at least in my experience in my social circle. In fact, guys care more and more about having an equal partner, so an educated guy will look for a similar background. I'm talking IRL, no idea how OLD works. I imagine those who are serious about finding a LTR care about this too.

Education levels shouldn't be a big deal in an ideal world, but it is. Only very secure guys are ok with women being higher educated than them, and they are rare as hen's teeth.

Tina Marie, I met my SO at a mutual friends' housewarming party in my late 30s (no kids / never married). He was one year post divorce and came with 2 teenage boys. Not my dream scenario at all initially, but I wouldn't change one thing now. He was in his 40s and extremely well established in his career. It is a fact though that late 40s early 50s guys will go after younger women in their 20s or early 30s.

It really depends on where you live, though; bigger cities will offer more opportunities with never married no kids men in your age range, but you will need to get out of your comfort zone a little, and try and become a bit more social.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Interstellar]

17 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Untrue, at least in my experience in my social circle. In fact, guys care more and more about having an equal partner, so an educated guy will look for a similar background. I'm talking IRL, no idea how OLD works. I imagine those who are serious about finding a LTR care about this too.

Education levels shouldn't be a big deal in an ideal world, but it is. Only very secure guys are ok with women being higher educated than them, and they are rare as hen's teeth.

Tina Marie, I met my SO at a mutual friends' housewarming party in my late 30s (no kids / never married). He was one year post divorce and came with 2 teenage boys. Not my dream scenario at all initially, but I wouldn't change one thing now. He was in his 40s and extremely well established in his career. It is a fact though that late 40s early 50s guys will go after younger women in their 20s or early 30s.

It really depends on where you live, though; bigger cities will offer more opportunities with never married no kids men in your age range, but you will need to get out of your comfort zone a little, and try and become a bit more social.

Online, guys really don’t because we’re looking at the picture for 3 seconds and after, what she says in her profile, most guys just skim through it but I read everything thoroughly and then decide that she’s not from outer space so she passed the  standard sane person entrance quiz. 
 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Interstellar

[simpycurious]

8 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I noticed a lot of the people here who say “im too old to find love” usually didn’t have any luck when they were 22 either, but for whatever reason are blaming it on age now. Anyway, you’re not. My mom had me at 40. Plenty of women start families later 

I think this says a lot.  Whether the 37 year old woman dates a 28 year old guy or a 42 year old guy, she is in NO WAY TOO OLD to date or find love.  Cookie, were you your Mom's first child at 40? 

[Emilie Jolie]

17 minutes ago, Interstellar said:

Online, guys really don’t because we’re looking at the picture for 3 seconds and after, what she says in her profile, most guys just skim through it but I read everything thoroughly and then okay decide that she’s not from outer space so she passed the  standard sane person entrance quiz. 
 

 

She said she got a lot of interest from 20 year olds. I don't know many guys in their 20s who want to settle down and have kids with an older woman (no offence, Tina Marie!) so this, to me, does not necessarily translate into interest for the LTR Tina Marie says she's after, especially if she's attractive. On the other hand, IRL, I have never met a well established guy looking for a LTR who doesn't care at least a little about a woman's professional or educational background, apart from older men who are after a younger woman / ego boost.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[rjc149]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Truth is many men cannot cope with educated women and the men who are looking for "younger" I guess definitely cannot cope, so it is  not a problem that you would be of no interest to them. Such superficial guys are not "high quality".

This presents a self-serving feminist viewpoint I believe, that seeks to either dismiss, or escape, the reality of female SMV (sexual market value). That being, a formidable, educated, high-status woman, thus her male equivalent, makes her as attractive, desirable, and worthy as her male equivalent; and when presented with the reality that it does not, the men who don't see value in her status compromise their own male value. Much like the common feminist trope "only weak men are intimidated by strong (ie. dominant/masculine) women" etc. I don't think the issue is that man "cannot cope" with highly educated women, it's that they could care less about it when looking for a mate, and when they do, it comes second, always, to looks. 

The OP also has not given any details or criteria of what constitutes a "high-quality" man, we are only assuming her academic snobbery that her partner must be her equivalent. She could very well simply want a guy who isn't a jealous, needy, controlling, insecure broke loser that she needs to look after. She does, however, appear to sit high upon her academic laurels and look down at her male dating prospects. I've known many women who employed this as a self-esteem defense mechanism. 

1 hour ago, Blind-Sided said:

I'm going to disagree with that a little. I am also educated, and know the importance of being with someone who you can connect with mentally. 

I'm not saying that emotional connection is totally unimportant. I am saying that for a man, emotional connection and relating to a woman on the basis of her academic accomplishment does not, and will not happen, if he doesn't think she's cute. When a woman is 37 and over the hill, the pool of qualified" men who are going to find her cute shrinks. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by rjc149

[poppyfields]

Tina, I mean absolutely no disrespect when I say this, but my thinking is if you "feel" expired, then you "are" expired.

Nothing to do with your age, OR your looks for that matter.

More about your vibe and how you present yourself, your attitude --> negative.

I'm wondering, what were your dating experiences like in your 20s and early 30s?

Did you attract more men when you were younger? It sounds like it's always been this way for you but now that you're pushing 40, you attribute it to age?  

Maybe it's demographics, but I live in an area of the country where woman keep themselves in better shape in their 40s, 50s and even 60s than they did in their 20s!

I'm late 30s, and I do!  I've always been thin, but now I do yoga and pilates and which keeps me super toned.  

They also, including myself, take real good care of their skin (not talking plastic surgery although that does happen here) and can look far younger than their birth age.

But that's neither here nor there, it's ALL in your attitude and how you feel about "yourself "  And how you present yourself to the world including the men you meet.

I really have to chuckle when I hear phrases like "over the hill" and "expired" lol that is so NOT my experience nor is it for many women I know who are far older than myself even!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by poppyfields

[SumGuy]

You are far from expired, to me very young but I’m in my 50’s

Agree with what elaine567 and Emilie Jolie say.   Can also confirm it as a man, who likely fits what you are looking for, in the social circles I know intelligence, education is a plus and in fact required for LTR.  
 

Never dumb yourself down, men that are turned off by an intelligent women are insecure or worse.   Same with success.  These can both be indications of the character traits high quality men desire, and for those who want a friend and partner in life as well as lover.   So why would these turn someone off if they are truly secure and looking for a partner I’d ask.  

Now if a guy has a more hierarchical or authoritarian mindset or zero-sum mindset, then yes a woman being smarter or more accomplished is an issue as it undermines or is counter to his very view of relationships.    

Heck even a macho mechanic guy I know with some traditional views is not intimidated by his executive wife, let’s just say he has no doubts about his manliness, so is not threatened or turned off by his wife’s confidence or success.

In my direct experience there are many reasons why accomplished men would go for intelligent women your age.  Some want a partner who can be part of a power couple.  Frankly these are the most successful and happy accomplished couples I know.  Each is a powerhouse in their own right and their combined networks are truly frightening.  Some want someone they can talk to and get not just emotional support but also good advice, they can trust from someone who knows all of them and an intelligent other perspective.   Some want a soul mate, so no matter how great she is physically or emotionally, if not there intellectually, it’s not the full package.  

On your age, many accomplished people put off family and marriage into their 30s, that’s pretty common.  Now onto the age of men.  

I believe these 20 something guys are interested in just sex, sure maybe long term sex, but are they really ready to build in any real way, no matter what they say.  
 

If you are open to divorced men with kids then it will be a lot easier than if you are only after men with no kids.   You could well though attract a man in early 30s interested in a family. Around 40 is when a lot of accomplished and quality men that married young are getting divorced.   There kids are older and tired of their bad marriage.   (This is excluding those guys who are jerks whose wives divorce them).

 So if you can expand to a bit older, I’d say from experience of being in those circles and professions that have the men you seek, there are good candidates from 33-45, and certainly if you go up to 50.  

Be aware, these guys can go fast, but they also have trouble finding quality women like you (who are rare as well).  That is quality men and women easily attract interest, and easily can be seeing someone, but sadly most, while fun, are not the complete package.   So quality folks can disappear from the market quickly as they search.   Only to re-emerge later.   
 

If OLD id suggest being up front about the relationship you are after, as an up front filter.   It would have to be a pretty exceptional and mature 20 something that could fit this bill.  
More importantly, use your social network to be connected to these men.   At any time I seem to personally know at least 1 man who is available and fits you criteria as I understand it, and add another degree of separation and bet there are 2 or 3 more.   Not just business circles, but scientific, medical, artistic, academic and legal as well, oh and as our socioeconomic group is all about being in shape, even the personal trainer work out space.

Are there accomplished men who go for trophy, just sex and emotional support women who will defer to them, who is just average in intelligence, sure.  
Can say the only ones who think these guys accomplished something in this regard are young, clueless, or dinks.   A accomplished well to do man getting a sugar baby, heck that’s low hanging fruit, easy....it’s like an NFL team being able to outperform a college team, so what.   It garners them no respect from their worthy peers.   

What gains respect is if he finds a hot, intelligent, can do, and accomplished woman nearer (not half) his age.   That’s not easy and frankly bespeaks a character of some one you can trust to do above board business with.  Guys who take the easy way/hedonistic way out are less trust worthy.   Ive heard VCs whom are themselves complete self serving d**che bags say this...guess they would know.  
 

Long way of saying you don’t need to dumb yourself down to attract the men you want and may well make yourself unattractive to them.  The men you are after want the complete package, cute is easy to come by, nice loving person (is just baseline and frankly all those half their age women eventually become less nice and loving).  intelligence, balanced, head on her shoulders, accomplished...those are hard to find and valued.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by SumGuy

[Springsummer]

Just look at the French president and his wife...nothing is off the limit