The necessity of lockdowns during the pandemic

[BC1980]

5 hours ago, preraph said:

The Texas Gov is gradually opening some businesses by maintaining social distancing, but today's numbers in Dallas are tied for the highest they've been yet, after going down to about half that just a few days ago.  I think people just stopped minding the recommendations.  The map of outbreak changed radically from just a couple days ago too.  It's spreading.  My area is still good, but it won't long be.  

I'm worried about my state too. I thought things were getting better, but it looks like we're going backwards. Our numbers have been peaking and holding steady. At first, the hospital census was low, but, now, we're full again. We are getting more COVID and regular patients.
 

We scheduled elective surgeries this week, but I don't think it's gonna work. We don't have the beds. They had to open up the COVID overflow floor today, and all the other floors are full. *sigh* I guess that little lull wasn't real. My sister works at the hospital up the street, and she said they see are also getting more COVID patients. 

[Redhead14]

20 minutes ago, Belle23 said:

Some people don’t have the luxury/ability to have a job they can’t work from home. Everyone I know wants eased restrictions so they can’t have income again, not to go partying. 
 

Yeah, I get it.  Which is why I'm concerned for the people who are high-risk having to go back to work!  People who are high-risk should be given some kind of long-term assistance.  They shouldn't be forced to go back to work and expose themselves to something that would likely kill them.  And, no one I know wants the restrictions eased right now.  Everyone I know wants to the restrictions for at least a couple more weeks.  Not necessarily months.  I didn't say anything about partying, but trust me, people will abuse the "easing".  The past month and a half or so will have been a complete waste of effort.  But OK.  Fine.  Have at it. 

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

I had two kids knock on the door today asking if they could cut the grass. No masks or gloves just two normal fresh faced American kids doing what every kid has done since there were lawnmowers. I admit I follow the restrictions that are in place but I'm age vulnerable and my wife is also medically vulnerable. I have to say that most of the people I see outside in my neighborhood are not too worried about it.

Take that for what it's worth.

Anyone who knocks on my door without a mask, will be faced with trespassing charges.  I ordered a pizza the other day.  It was supposed to be contactless delivery.  The delivery driver knocked on the door.  I thought he would have moved back from the door at least.  I opened the door and he was standing right there and with his mask down.  I called the pizza place and reported him and told them I sent the pizza back.  They refunded the entire bill.  I hope they fired his stupid rear end.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Redhead14

[Art_Critic]

21 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

I hope they fired his stupid rear end.

You hoped they fired him.. Wow.. We are all just trying to navigate the pandemic and you want someone fired for delivering you a pizza with his mask down.. That is harsh stuff.. They most likely were not medical personnel and they are just trying to put food on their table and here you hope they lose the ability for them to do that.. Yikes...

most of the delivery people I tip at least 20 bucks on each delivery.. Even a 15 dollar pizza.. They are doing the dirty work that most wouldn't do and risk delivering food to god knows who at each residence.. I thank them for delivering my groceries ..

btw.. The cdc has reported that there has not been one reported case of the virus being transmitted by food... So you  could have eaten your pizza.. It is cooked in an oven at 500 degrees

Edited April 29, 2020 by Art_Critic

[Redhead14]

 

30 minutes ago, Art_Critic said:

btw.. The cdc has reported that there has not been one reported case of the virus being transmitted by food... So you  could have eaten your pizza.. It is cooked in an oven at 500 degrees

It was not about the food.  The delivery was supposed to be contactless.  He knocked on the door and stood there instead of backing up and putting the food down.  When I opened the door that SOB was right front of me with his mask down!!!!!!  I am high risk.  So, again, I hope they fired his stupid as# for putting me at risk.  I am entitled to be safe in and around my home.  I sent the pizza back because I would not take it from the driver since he didn't have his mask up.  I didn't know if he sneezed or coughed on that box.  It is also a message to that pizza place to make sure their drivers have respect for customers who may be high risk. 

I have my groceries delivered as well.  The delivery drivers wear a mask and put the groceries down away from my door.  I tip them quite well.  I also put a nice tip on the card for the pizza delivery people as well usually.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by Redhead14

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Belle23 said:

Some people don’t have the luxury/ability to have a job they can’t work from home. Everyone I know wants eased restrictions so they can’t have income again, not to go partying. 
 

But others here are saying that the unemployed are being given too much financial support off the government.  Sounds to me like they do have income.

 

Quote

To the other poster, ... It’s not increasing in my area. New cases has been steady for awhile. Hospitalizations and deaths have been down. Further, we only have a .001% infection rate for my area. That’s just the infection rate, not even the death rate there’s never going to be zero new cases. 

You said that "cases are not increasing that much".  A low increase is still an increase.  But even if it's steady, 1:1000 is still too high considering that when you come out of restrictions there will be a spike.   When you are down to having minimal new infections, then it will be safer to reopen.  

After tough restrictions NZ has zero new cases.  And so do a number of Australian states.   So your assertion that there's never going to be zero new cases is false.  It can be done.

Edited April 29, 2020 by basil67

[Redhead14]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But others here are saying that the unemployed are being given too much financial support off the government.  Sounds to me like they do have income.

 

 

 

There are some complaints that the unemployment systems in some areas are behind and haven't started making payments because it's overloaded with claims.  But the ones who are receiving it, are doing just fine.  Everyone I know is doing well enough and getting by just fine.  But there are some people whose jobs fall into a gray area in terms of eligibility too, so they are having trouble. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Redhead14

[basil67]

Yeah, we've just realised that our foreign workers fall in the gray area and are addressing this at present.  

[preraph]

1 hour ago, BC1980 said:

I'm worried about my state too. I thought things were getting better, but it looks like we're going backwards. Our numbers have been peaking and holding steady. At first, the hospital census was low, but, now, we're full again. We are getting more COVID and regular patients.
 

We scheduled elective surgeries this week, but I don't think it's gonna work. We don't have the beds. They had to open up the COVID overflow floor today, and all the other floors are full. *sigh* I guess that little lull wasn't real. My sister works at the hospital up the street, and she said they see are also getting more COVID patients. 

That's scary. Our capacities in Dallas just roughly about half so we're doing okay on that and it's been pretty consistent but we too are adding in other procedures now so it could get dicey. 

 

Dallas and some of the border towns are some of the worst areas. Texas is enormous and of course there's lots of places in Texas that will be fine lifting restrictions. 

[gaius]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

I didn't say anything about partying, but trust me, people will abuse the "easing".  The past month and a half or so will have been a complete waste of effort.  But OK.  Fine.  Have at it. 

People are already abusing the stay at home order on a regular basis. If everyone was doing what they were supposed to we should have started seeing a drastic decrease in cases at this point but it's clear they're not. In many ways we have wasted the last few months.

Sorry that a moron managed to put you in danger Redhead even though you're being responsible and isolating at home. I'm still on the interstates in the south and the amount of nonsense and stupidly that's still going on is mind numbing.

If you could only see all the RV aholes zipping around from state to state.... It takes a lot of willpower to not run them right off the road. 

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, gaius said:

If everyone was doing what they were supposed to we should have started seeing a drastic decrease in cases at this point but it's clear they're not. In many ways we have wasted the last few months.

I agree.
The Uk's "lockdown" is risible and we are heading for the prize of being the worst affected country in Europe.
European people are laughing at us.
We "talked" a good game, but the Coronavirus really doesn't care about rhetoric and spin.
It carries on business as usual.
Its job is to keep replicating itself and willing victims make its job a lot easier.
People in general have no idea about infection control.
Now the UK Govt. are scrabbling about trying to do stuff they should have done weeks, months, even years ago.

[Art_Critic]

7 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

 

It was not about the food.  The delivery was supposed to be contactless.  He knocked on the door and stood there instead of backing up and putting the food down.  When I opened the door that SOB was right front of me with his mask down!!!!!! 

I get that you ordered a contactless delivery and he obviously didn't do it, you opened the door.. did you have a mask on ?

Maybe the thing to do would have been to not open the door, I did have that same thing happen to me for a grocery delivery and I ignored the ring and they laid the groceries down even though I was on the other side of the door.

The box BTW.. you also don't know if the person who packed the pizza at the kitchen coughed on it.. so you should have been cleaning the box regardless of what the driver did since you are high risk.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Art_Critic

[elaine567]

The problem with masks is the same as with gloves, medical personal have strict infection control routines with gloves and masks so that contamination is minimised.
A mask and gloves are meant to be disposable and once exposed to a non-sterile surface or a contaminated surface they are binned.
In order to get the mask onto his forehead he no doubt touched the outer and inner layers of the mask, and that meant his gloves (or bare hands if he was not wearing gloves). were then potentially contaminated and then he touched the pizza box...
As he did not maintain a safe distance he breathed all over Redhead, if he was shedding the virus, then he put her at risk. She also breathed all over him, If she was shedding the virus, then he put himself and his family members at risk
Yes it is all "pedantic" and "picky", but we are dealing with a virus here, one which could kill a vulnerable person, which by all accounts Redhead is.

[elaine567]

Now we have Boris MIA again as his mistress fiancee has just had his baby...
We are in the middle of a life and death pandemic and today is the first PMs questions since he got ill.
Now he is on "paternity leave"?????
SMH

Edited April 29, 2020 by elaine567

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, Art_Critic said:

I get that you ordered a contactless delivery and he obviously didn't do it, you opened the door.. did you have a mask on ?

Maybe the thing to do would have been to not open the door, I did have that same thing happen to me for a grocery delivery and I ignored the ring and they laid the groceries down even though I was on the other side of the door.

The box BTW.. you also don't know if the person who packed the pizza at the kitchen coughed on it.. so you should have been cleaning the box regardless of what the driver did since you are high risk.

 

 

 

 

I did put my mask on.  But he is supposed to knock on the door, back up and put the food down.  Not stand there without his mask on.  He failed to follow the instructions for contactless delivery.   Employees who can't follow instructions don't last long on the job at reputable places.  The people handling the food are supposed to be having masks on as well.  Masks are required everywhere there is interaction with other people where I am.

But, you're right.  I don't know what anyone is doing from these restaurants and so, as far as I am concerned, they can't be trusted. No more business from me.  And, I will be sure to let everyone I know, high risk or not, that it would be risky to be patronizing them.  

[Redhead14]

25 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The problem with masks is the same as with gloves, medical personal have strict infection control routines with gloves and masks so that contamination is minimised.
A mask and gloves are meant to be disposable and once exposed to a non-sterile surface or a contaminated surface they are binned.
In order to get the mask onto his forehead he no doubt touched the outer and inner layers of the mask, and that meant his gloves (or bare hands if he was not wearing gloves). were then potentially contaminated and then he touched the pizza box...
As he did not maintain a safe distance he breathed all over Redhead, if he was shedding the virus, then he put her at risk. She also breathed all over him, If she was shedding the virus, then he put himself and his family members at risk
Yes it is all "pedantic" and "picky", but we are dealing with a virus here, one which could kill a vulnerable person, which by all accounts Redhead is.

Thank you.  This is serious business for a lot of people and so many people aren't taking it seriously enough to help make it safer for us/everyone.  The whole thing of "we are in this together" is bullsh*t because of that.  Businesses who provide these kinds of delivery services are going to be missing out on sales if they can't enforce the rules and have respect for those people who are high-risk and will likely be using those services more and more frequently until a vaccine is found for those people. 

The attitude toward this segment of the population is to minimize their significance and numbers compared to the overall population.  But, until there is a vaccine and people can fill up the restaurants again the way we used to, delivery service to this segment of the population is going to represent a significant piece of business. 

[Art_Critic]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The problem with masks is the same as with gloves, medical personal have strict infection control routines with gloves and masks so that contamination is minimised.
A mask and gloves are meant to be disposable and once exposed to a non-sterile surface or a contaminated surface they are binned.
In order to get the mask onto his forehead he no doubt touched the outer and inner layers of the mask, and that meant his gloves (or bare hands if he was not wearing gloves). were then potentially contaminated and then he touched the pizza box...

That is for hospital gloves that are sterile and masks that are sterile, the public can't buy sterile anything.. the gloves are not sterile.. the masks are not sterile. this is an overreaction to actually hope the guy gets fired..

Even so with sterile gloves there is a very detailed procedure to put those on your hands and masks too and that is for hospital personnel, not the public.

Hey.. I get it.. but even though you talk about the mask, if she had gotten contacless delivery she would have never known if he had on a mask or gloves at all... This is the issue at hand with being in a lockdown, is it really necessary that he be fired for that ? I don't think so...she is making him responsible for her health, she opened the door.. and maybe this is all an effect of being in a lockdown for a month....we are all feeling anxiety, I certainly am.. and I'm not an anxiety prone person.

I get all my groceries delivered and wipe them all down, but I am responsible for what I bring into my house without wiping it down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redhead14]

27 minutes ago, Art_Critic said:

That is for hospital gloves that are sterile and masks that are sterile, the public can't buy sterile anything.. the gloves are not sterile.. the masks are not sterile. this is an overreaction to actually hope the guy gets fired..

Even so with sterile gloves there is a very detailed procedure to put those on your hands and masks too and that is for hospital personnel, not the public.

Hey.. I get it.. but even though you talk about the mask, if she had gotten contacless delivery she would have never known if he had on a mask or gloves at all... This is the issue at hand with being in a lockdown, is it really necessary that he be fired for that ? I don't think so...she is making him responsible for her health, she opened the door.. and maybe this is all an effect of being in a lockdown for a month....we are all feeling anxiety, I certainly am.. and I'm not an anxiety prone person.

I get all my groceries delivered and wipe them all down, but I am responsible for what I bring into my house without wiping it down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the high risk people, other people who don't participate in this new level of social responsibility, are walking weapons and will be treated as such by me.  I was willing to take a little risk on the virus living on the box with the minimized exposure if the guy had his mask up.  I have to live like this for maybe 18 months.  That sucks.  I can accept that if others will make it easier on some level for me to "take one for the team" so to speak.  I don't appreciate that this segment of the population is considered disposable and that we are being forced to live like hermits for a large part of our lives with little to no respect for that and not at least making some attempt to help in some way. 

This is a life or death situation for a lot of us -- we are trying to make our lives as safe as possible while enjoying a little "luxury" and convenience.  Its not like I am going crazy because somebody let their dog poop on my lawn.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Art_Critic said:

That is for hospital gloves that are sterile and masks that are sterile, the public can't buy sterile anything.. the gloves are not sterile.. the masks are not sterile. this is an overreaction to actually hope the guy gets fired..

Even so with sterile gloves there is a very detailed procedure to put those on your hands and masks too and that is for hospital personnel, not the public.

Yes but the fact the gloves are not actually "sterile" is moot.
The gloves and mask for general use are "sterile" in that they are not supposed to have coronavirus on them, as soon as that is a risk then they are contaminated.

[Redhead14]

There is a story by CBS news that says Oxford scientists may have a vaccine by September?????  Google it if you're interested.  But how can there be a vaccine available by September when they've been telling us how long it takes for a vaccine to be developed and tested and watched for viability for significant periods of time and would be more like 18 months.  That's a huge  difference.  I sure don't want to be one of the first people they try it on.  I'm not anti-vax but I'm not going to let someone shoot me up with something without a fairly high degree of confidence that its "for real".  The degree of disparity between what we've been being told and the "suddenness"  of this revelation is unsettling. 

[elaine567]

First human volunteers, I have only heard of two though, have been given the vaccine.
BUT UK has supposedly no vaccine manufacturing capacity so would need to rely on others to make the vaccine.
However The Serum Institute of India says it will start production of the experimental COVID-19 vaccine while the vaccine is still being tested. 
Let's hope it works.

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Now we have Boris MIA again as his mistress fiancee has just had his baby...
We are in the middle of a life and death pandemic and today is the first PMs questions since he got ill.
Now he is on "paternity leave"?????
SMH

Didn't your prime minister do a speech a few days ago? I listen to Hugh Hewitt every morning from 6am to 9am and I believe huge aired it in it's entirety. Usual political stuff to rally the nation. Hugh was quite impressed with it. 

[schlumpy]

48 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

There is a story by CBS news that says Oxford scientists may have a vaccine by September?????  Google it if you're interested.  But how can there be a vaccine available by September when they've been telling us how long it takes for a vaccine to be developed and tested and watched for viability for significant periods of time and would be more like 18 months.  That's a huge  difference.  I sure don't want to be one of the first people they try it on.  I'm not anti-vax but I'm not going to let someone shoot me up with something without a fairly high degree of confidence that its "for real".  The degree of disparity between what we've been being told and the "suddenness"  of this revelation is unsettling. 

Keep your hopes in check. The trials were on monkeys and although they indicate success it's quite often that what works on an animal does not work on human beings. Wait and see.

[thefooloftheyear]

I dunno if a vaccine is going to make the people crippled with fear any less fearful....The flu shot is readily available and people get the flu in spite of it...I remember my dad would religiously get a flu shot and always got sick...I've never gotten a flu shot and almost never get sick...

I think I live in the same state as Red14(?) and I really am not seeing anyone deliberately flouting the rules...As a matter of fact, I see a lot of people even driving alone in their cars wearing masks....They have their right, but I think that is probably like wearing 3 condoms when having sex...

At the end of the day, it just seems like its the people who arent affected(money/job/business) sitting around and going nuts because others want to try to stop the bleeding...If you want to test that theory, maybe let  the government pay those people who are suffering, and see what happens(I dont want to hear about the PPP and other stuff,,,like a lot of it, its not making it to the people that need it the most)...Its not about unemployment...And the governor here making a big deal about how you can put off your property taxes for a month without penalty....Great...what a sport...We already have the highest taxes in the country and just putting it off for a month will have about as much effect as pissing in the ocean...

Its not the lockdown, its the uncertainty and changing of the stories daily...That's what has everyone on edge...Maybe they just have to look at the data and if its on the downside, then set a definitive date for opening the economy and let it rip... These  people aren't looking for pool parties and such, they are just looking for hope....its not helpful for people who have nothing to lose telling them what they should be doing....In fact its irritating...

TFY

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Didn't your prime minister do a speech a few days ago? I listen to Hugh Hewitt every morning from 6am to 9am and I believe huge aired it in it's entirety. Usual political stuff to rally the nation. Hugh was quite impressed with it. 

Yes but that was just fluff, today he was supposed to be back in parliament, his day job.