The necessity of lockdowns during the pandemic

[basil67]

10 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Cats can be an answer Basil as you mentioned. Not all cats are interested in catching rats and once they find out that's what you want them to do their very nature demands that they stop doing it.

Many years ago I had some rats to get rid of. I used a bait box with holes only the size a rat could get into so as to keep out any possums,  raccoons, dogs, cats or other pets. That worked really well. The bait I used was loaded with warfarin which is a common blood thinner but in high doses will cause internal bleeding. 

A cat would be lovely.  But unfortunately we also have domestic parrots.   Warfarin seems to be the best bet at present, but I'm always worried about secondary kill.  At least none of the poisoned rats have died in the hen's pen.

[elaine567]

52 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

I think there has to be scope of movement and at the end of the day it is up to people to look after themselves when they are out and about; if they wish to stay at home let them stay at home but people should have the choice.

When they started the lockdown the advice was always to go to work if you can, but many businesses/factories and construction sites just shut down and furloughed/laid off their workers
Now they are being encouraged to start up again, but many are scared as how can they guarantee safe distancing?  They don't want to be sued by sick/dead workers, nor I guess do they want to be the centre of an outbreak.
Some workplaces will find it difficult to accommodate safe distancing with out losing money hand over fist. Do they start up again or do they wait it out but they may not then have any money left to restart...  
Some workers are happy to be furloughed, some are scared to return to work, some are being shielded and some would need to rely on public transport to get to work but Boris said they need to avoid it.
Some have kids and with no schools open and no other childcare options available how can they return to work?
Maybe it will become clearer tomorrow when the 50 page document explaining "stuff" will be available..

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, Foxhall said:

I am curious what the UK posters make of Boris Johnson's easing of lockdown,

"stay alert" rather than "stay at home"

Personally this is the approach I am in favour of, I think there has to be a limit on the number of weeks of keeping people very tight to their homes,

I think there has to be scope of movement and at the end of the day it is up to people to look after themselves when they are out and about; if they wish to stay at home let them stay at home but people should have the choice.

 

I can see the logic of dropping the stay at home message, personally I think it is still a bit too early to drop it, but it is going to have to be dropped at some point eventually.

However the “stay alert” slogan is just too vague and no one really knows how to interpret it. I think a better slogan would be “Stay apart but be together” as it puts the emphasis on physically distancing when out of the home but at the same time recognises the need to for people to remain socially connected. 

[chillii]

;'m not in the UK but it's mind boggling here with the absolutely stupid questions media ask and how they get so caught up on the most pathetic things , l'm always thinking for God sake use your brains it's all pretty obvious shyt but no they'll bang on and bloody on pestering the pm and pollies over such bs it's hard to fathom. l mean if you have a few questions you could personally ask a pm or president in such serious times wouldn't you make them count , nooooo,  these fools are just mind boggling .

And that one to me would be a very obvious no brainer too , l mean stay alert , stay mindful , keep the distance keep up the washing don't get slack and slip back back into all the things that spread this thing , stay on your toes around people and out and about.

Edited May 11, 2020 by chillii

[schlumpy]

This is my own opinion. I think the reason for the asinine questions is to get the questioned official emotional so that he/she will say something that is not in the script. I'm sure the public officials have scripted answers to the pressing questions of the day and asking them if they kicked their dog that morning before they came to work is an attempt to get them off-track.

I find the whole thing tedious and rely on multiple news stories the next day to find out what happened. That way they don't get to waste my time also.

[chillii]

Yeah and then there's those times too , the pollies are use to them though . The morons think they're outsmarting the pollies and being tricky but it's that damn transparent. lf the pollie does lose it it's certainly not through some reporters intelligence and trickery , it's through the reporters stupidity and pettiness.

l like watching the pollies pretending to be all patient with them , listening, but knowing exactly what the morons gonna ask him, again , about one word into it. The moron finally finishes his question , which the polliies usually already just finished explaining 5 times to the moron before him and the one before him,  and the pollies straining to not just go WTF , instead it kills him but he gives a patient smile or some shyt , and explains it all over again.

[carhill]

After threatening to move the Tesla business lock stock and barrel out of California, Elon Musk today opened the Tesla car assembly plant in Fremont in violation of Alameda County's closure orders..

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/11/elon-musk-confirms-tesla-factory-reopening-despite/

[schlumpy]

I don't know personally anything about Elon Musk except that he is a man of great vision and has the drive to push through the resistance to get to his goal. I imagine he is a lot like Thomas Edison or Tesla in that although I laud and admire their accomplishments, it's possible I would not be able stand being in the same room with either of them.

One thing Mr. Musk should not forget and that is if the federal subsidies for the electric vehicle industry dry up so does his dream and all his future plans. Those subsidies are a the umbilical cord that keeps him afloat until the necessary technologies that will make an electric car a reality, instead of a curiosity, are developed.

So he should be careful when he spits back at the people who are holding his leash.

[Redhead14]

23 hours ago, schlumpy said:

 I think the reason for the asinine questions is to get the questioned official emotional so that he/she will say something that is not in the script.

Right.  That's the goal and it's a good one.  Because, especially in Trump's case, his scripted narrative is full of personal agenda, gaslighting, skewed/made up information and untruths.  Getting him off that script could possibly make him slip up and be truthful and transparent albeit by mistake.  That is why he has tantrums and cuts briefings short when someone presses him for answers to questions he doesn't like.

By the way, there's an old saying "There is no such thing as a dumb (asinine) question, just dumb (asinine) answers" or tantrums or no answers . . .

Edited May 12, 2020 by Redhead14

[Happy Lemming]

Our governor just announced that he is going to let the "Stay at Home" order expire on May 15th and not renew it. 

I'm not 100% sure what that means or how it will affect my girlfriend and I, but I'm going to interpret it as a good sign.

I might treat myself to a Home Depot run, there are some canless recessed lights I need to begin the kitchen remodel.

Also wanted to post a "Thank You" to @carhill for the lighting advice provided. 

[sothereiwas]

Our county has applied to unlock Friday. Despite what some media outlets imagine it's not intended to be one big communal hug, it just means that businesses can open if they are able to facilitate social distancing and frivolous travel is allowed. 

[schlumpy]

I might be able to get a haircut this weekend. It's either that or I try and convince everyone that the "Mad Scientist" look is the next wave.

[sothereiwas]

13 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

I might be able to get a haircut this weekend. It's either that or I try and convince everyone that the "Mad Scientist" look is the next wave.

I went with a pair of shears and a mirror some time ago - just mow the lawn every week or so, done. 

[carhill]

Some news reports.. corroborate as desired....

https://patch.com/california/longbeach-ca/what-lockdown-death-looks
 

Quote

 

Her and her boyfriend both lost their jobs at the onset of this pandemic response. She had just gotten her own studio apartment in Long Beach. By mid-April he was dead. She, a salon worker with little hope of returning to work anytime soon, passed a week later.

Take a close look. She won't be the first to pass without ever contracting coronavirus or COVID-19.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-doctors-say-theyve-seen-more-deaths-from-suicide-than-coronavirus-since-lockdowns
 

Quote

 

Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.

“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by suicide, adding that he’s seen a “year’s worth of suicides” in the last four weeks alone.

 

Here's a letter from hundreds of doctors to President Trump regarding the lockdowns...

https://www.scribd.com/document/462319362/A-Doctor-a-Day-Letter-Signed

 

There's an older dramatization of social isolation and stress and the results called 'Blackout', a movie about a fictional global-wide power blackout and its effect on a specific groups in a particular area. I laughed a bit early on as a female hiker, facing no cell phone/GPS and being ostensibly lost, complained about lack of toilet paper. More sobering was the first gunshot death, citizens shooting the sheriff who was trying to keep order. I believe the film was made in 2014. Fortunately, for now anyway, just a work of fiction.

Edited May 22, 2020 by carhill
Add doctor letter.

[Libby1]

On 5/10/2020 at 10:53 PM, Foxhall said:

I am curious what the UK posters make of Boris Johnson's easing of lockdown,

"stay alert" rather than "stay at home"

Personally this is the approach I am in favour of, I think there has to be a limit on the number of weeks of keeping people very tight to their homes,

I think there has to be scope of movement and at the end of the day it is up to people to look after themselves when they are out and about; if they wish to stay at home let them stay at home but people should have the choice.

 

I think a lockdown in the early stages was vital, and it should have been imposed earlier than was the case...but I think that it's now time to ease up on it.  It does mean people in the vulnerable categories have to be more careful, but there are mental health implications in keeping people socially isolated for as long as this...and there's only so long that governments can or should disregard that for the sake of protecting the most vulnerable.

[carhill]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mississippi-church-burned-coronavirus-social-distancing-restrictions-arson/

Quote

A church in Mississippi burned down this week and the incident is now being investigated as arson, the Marshall County Sheriff's Office confirmed to CBS News First Pentecostal Church in Holly Springs had previously defied stay-at-home orders to open for services, and the church even sued the city of Holly Springs for trying to shut down a Bible study gathering.

Investigators said they found graffiti on the church property reading: "Bet you stay home now you hypokrites."

Mississippi burning?

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, carhill said:

Mississippi burning?

@carhill

Interesting article... definitely worth reading.

Thank you for posting it.

[Philosopher]

The UK’s prime minister top advisor obviously thinks the lockdown does not apply to him:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52779356

To make matters worse he had symptoms of Covid-19.

[elaine567]

I hope not but I have a feeling they will close ranks..
He is a very influential person in this govt. Some say he is the brains behind it, but he is obviously not that clever or he was so arrogant he didn't care.
What kind of a person knowing they are infected goes to stay with their elderly parents???
Robert Jenrick got away with it, so ... 

[BC1980]

We are reaching new highs in cases and hospitalizations in my state, but we are opening up. Why did we even shut down to begin with? We might as well have just don't what Sweden did.

[Libby1]

6 hours ago, BC1980 said:

We are reaching new highs in cases and hospitalizations in my state, but we are opening up. Why did we even shut down to begin with? We might as well have just don't what Sweden did.

The US per capita death rate seems to be about the same as Sweden's - so it's understandable that people would ask "what was the point in the US even going into lockdown?"  I think , though, that although Sweden didn't impose a lockdown, the culture there is such that people were taking a lot of precautions/having self imposed lockdown without needing to be told or having the threat of the law wielded against them. 

In the US, covid seems to have become yet another political football, with some people appearing to regard non compliance with distancing guidelines as a principled stance to take.  The cultural norms that has prevented Sweden's more laissez faire approach from going into the tens of thousands (which would have been possible, despite it being a relatively small country with about 10 million) might be found in pockets of the US, but might not be enough counter the harm likely to be done by political extremists who regard the flouting of social distancing regulations as some sort of principled act of rebellion.

[BC1980]

Makes sense. I did read an article that talked about norms in Sweden being different. The response to COVID has been a mess on a lot of levels. We basically wrecked our economy, and a lot of people are dying. We got the worst of both of it. 

[elaine567]

Sweden is highly rural with a low population density, 57/sq mi, the majority of people live alone and they have a lot of respect for authority so follow the rules. 
Supposedly a lot of the morbidity and mortality is in care homes and in the migrant population who live in densely populated areas in cities and many in extended families too..

[sothereiwas]

7 hours ago, Libby1 said:

although Sweden didn't impose a lockdown, the culture there is such that people were taking a lot of precautions/having self imposed lockdown without needing to be told or having the threat of the law wielded against them. 

Data indicates most of America did the same. Utility bills, cell phone location data, and so on all say that most people most places self curtailed a week or more before official lockdowns were in place. I'm growing more and more certain that the lockdowns mostly serve a political purpose rather than a practical one. 

[eleanorrigby]

https://vintagenewsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/1918-spanish-flu-1.jpg

 

It's interesting to imagine what my great grandmother was doing in this situation back then...