The necessity of lockdowns during the pandemic

[dangerous]

On 6/11/2020 at 10:19 PM, Redhead14 said:

The "crowds" didn't decide to lock down.  The governments of the world did.  No one is answering why the governments of the entire world made the decision they did if all this was not necessary.  Why did they do it? 

Why?

Because they can: power/ control

Fear. But of what? The scale of the pandemic? of the backlash if too many people of a particular demographic die (old people, non-caucasian etc) hmmm?

Image: government needs to be seen to be in charge!

Misinformation: statistics can be massaged to reach various conclusions. 

Too many or the wrong advice: of course the health professionals will prioritise their expertise, to hell with economics.

Conspiracy: we were overdue due a cyclical recession, so latch on to a natural disaster instead of an economical one.

etc etc

so nothing is black and white!! 

[sothereiwas]

2 hours ago, dangerous said:

Why?

Because they can: power/ control

For many this is probably the case, witness the power hungry antics seen in some places during lockdown, where for instance solitary boaters were flagged down and arrested. I think for most politicians it's simpler; lockdown is the safest route politically speaking. A lockdown can almost always be justified, but allowing life to continue as normal and then actually having an outbreak would be politically fatal. So rather than take a slim risk of ending their career, they go the safe route and then justify justify justify. 

[Philosopher]

2 hours ago, dangerous said:

Why?

Because they can: power/ control

Fear. But of what? The scale of the pandemic? of the backlash if too many people of a particular demographic die (old people, non-caucasian etc) hmmm?

Image: government needs to be seen to be in charge!

In the UK at least, I think the lockdown did occur as a result of what the “crowd” wanted. The UK’s initial plan was to let the virus spread through the population, but this plan got a very poor reception from the public. There was the view that this and that country were locking down, so the UK should be doing so too. Hence there was a U turn in government policy in mid March. 

[nospam99]

The governments of the world shutdown the economies to prevent panic. They know they have to answer to the news media. To do what everyone else is doing placates the media because when reporting government actions (cf. the exact opposite when reporting the actions of SJWs) the media won't criticize conformity, only nonconformity. Remember that early on there was a LOT more variability in the actions of different governments until the lemming/sheep approach caught on. So governments do what every other govenment is doing to placate the media to prevent riots. The riots would be worse than EITHER the disease OR the economic contraction that has resulted from the shutdown. For the umpteenth time, THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

[simpycurious]

Ok must have's for a lockdown:  in home gym, netflix (just became a fan), a live in chef (female preferred --lol), live at the beach.....that's about it I think

[nittygritty]

54 minutes ago, simpycurious said:

Ok must have's for a lockdown:  in home gym, netflix (just became a fan), a live in chef (female preferred --lol), live at the beach.....that's about it I think

You forgot toilet paper. 🤣

[Foxhall]

While I found the lockdown hard, travel restrictions especially, I acknowledge it has proved worthwhile with cases significantly reduced averaging around 20 new cases per day for the last three weeks, down from 800+ in April per day

emergence from lockdown is now happening sooner than expected.

interestingly scientists say that another six weeks of hard lockdown could get us to a New Zealand scenario of zero cases,

the government though has decided to go for almost a full opening  from the 29th June, 

the worry with this is it may be too much too soon. While I welcome the end of lockdown , the head says that maybe the scientists are right,

anyway we will hope for the best.

[schlumpy]

Continue as is until your head gives you the all clear.

I realize that's easier for me since I'm retired but you don't have to plunge fully back into life again.

[QuietRiot]

23 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Continue as is until your head gives you the all clear.

I realize that's easier for me since I'm retired but you don't have to plunge fully back into life again.

Apparently, our heads are giving the so-called "all clear", even in states where the Covid is spiking tremendously. Bars are already shutting down due to outbreaks at these businesses. 

[Piddy]

16 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Apparently, our heads are giving the so-called "all clear", even in states where the Covid is spiking tremendously. Bars are already shutting down due to outbreaks at these businesses. 

Yup.    Here in Florida they had their biggest increase in new cases.  Also, here in Tampa bars and restaurants are seeing a spike in their employees testing positive.  However, Mike Pence came out yesterday and said there will be no second wave.  I would think we have to get thru the first wave before we worry about a second wave. 🙄

[sothereiwas]

On 6/16/2020 at 3:55 AM, schlumpy said:

Continue as is until your head gives you the all clear.

I realize that's easier for me since I'm retired but you don't have to plunge fully back into life again.

My workplace (I'm remote, so I guess that's virtual workplace for me?) is waiting until three weeks after the official go back date to call people back, and then we're doing a return in shifts, and only for those who are not in any way at extra risk. But we've continued working the whole time from home so it's not as big a deal. Yesterday I took the family out to lunch for the first time in ages. Was nice, not at all crowded. 

I wish this was the new normal. 

[Ellener]

5 hours ago, Piddy said:

Mike Pence came out yesterday and said there will be no second wave. 

Yes, he doesn't read much  https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

[Ellener]

5 hours ago, Piddy said:

Mike Pence came out yesterday and said there will be no second wave.

This was from his Wall Street Journal piece "In recent days, the media has taken to sounding the alarm bells over a 'second wave' of coronavirus infections. Such panic is overblown. Thanks to the leadership of President Trump and the courage and compassion of the American people, our public health system is far stronger than it was four months ago, and we are winning the fight against the invisible enemy."

 

[carhill]

Quote

Gov. Gavin Newsom’s administration is considering a statewide order to require the use of masks to prevent the spread of the coronavirus, according to officials in several counties in contact with the state.

The discussions are occurring as many counties contemplate their own mask rules in response to spikes in coronavirus cases as businesses reopen.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article243620387.html

No customers wore masks during the lockdown and I don't expect that policy within my gates to change. Of course they are free to do whatever they feel is appropriate for them.

[Robert]

Just a reminder from moderation that the posts should be on topic or built loosely around the topic,

 

Thanks

 

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, carhill said:

Of course they are free to do whatever they feel is appropriate for them.

Yeah, right . . . until they do.  Then they get harrassed, ridiculed, criticized, disrespected . . .

[carhill]

Not on my property, however if they start telling me what to do they get shown the gate with an invitation to never return. It's called free will, I respect it but have no problem taking humans out who attempt to force theirs on me. Straight up. So far, during the lockdown, everyone has been polite and respectful, to the extreme of stopping at the gates and calling me before entering, some would not enter unless I met them personally to give permission. I value that kind of respect and return it. Some fist bumped, some elbow bumped some shook hands like we always do. I always extend my hand to seal business and thank people for their patronage. It's tradition in my industry since we work with our hands and put our lives at risk daily. What goes on in cities and the rest of the planet is their business. They do them, I do me.

3 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Yeah, right . . . until they do.  Then they get harrassed, ridiculed, criticized, disrespected . . .

 

[Libby1]

On 6/17/2020 at 12:14 PM, Piddy said:

Yup.    Here in Florida they had their biggest increase in new cases.  Also, here in Tampa bars and restaurants are seeing a spike in their employees testing positive.  However, Mike Pence came out yesterday and said there will be no second wave.  I would think we have to get thru the first wave before we worry about a second wave. 🙄

I don't understand why he'd be talking about a second wave either.   Was he talking about a particular area in the US rather than in the US as a whole?  In Scotland, where I am, daily infection rates have dropped a lot from the peak.  Yesterday there were 11 new cases whereas a couple of weeks ago it was in the hundreds.  So that's more like a first wave come to an end, with potential for a second wave in a few weeks time once lockdown eases and people start taking more risks.  But in the US it seems as though there hasn't been huge variation in the peaks and troughs since early April...and looking at the graph, yesterday there were 27,000 new cases.  

By this point, I don't even bother listening to updates.  I just glance at the daily statistics to see what's happening, because everything else is just political noise.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Libby1 said:

I don't understand why he'd be talking about a second wave either. 

His job is to get people back to work and out spending again.
He doesn't want people sitting at home worrying about the second wave.

[preraph]

I can only tell you that this is still the first wave in Dallas, and it's not crested yet and just getting worse and worse as cocky people cut loose and congregate.  It's really bad here now.  I was starting to stick my head out, but now I'm maximum lockdown once more.  First it was certain groups who never did stop congregating at the big churches and then complained that they are hit harder because of other reasons, and then it was as soon as Trump loosed the reins just a little, they just all flung the masks off and started having massive parties around Memorial Day.  And now the 3 weeks of protests, which is why we have a huge explosion now of covid.  Just no common sense nor care for other people.  

And just this past week, the numbers for 20-30 years olds which were practically nonexistent before, are significantly higher.  I guess if any of them read the news, maybe that would slow them down a little.  It won't be long before school starts back.  

This disease is very worrisome and none of the hope that was there at the beginning of it is bearing out.  Just about everyone thought it would have its season and then we'd get a break and then a repeat and then a vaccination, but there's no break in the disease itself.  It's only places with sparse population who are doing well with it.  The disease itself is persistent.

[pepperbird]

If this is true, then what does it mean? (beyond that the virus was in Europe weeks before was previously thought). Was it in other countries as well? I know it was in Toronto in January for a week or so.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/virus-already-in-italy-by-december-waste-water-study-finds-1.4991172

[pepperbird]

On 6/19/2020 at 5:33 AM, Libby1 said:

I don't understand why he'd be talking about a second wave either.   Was he talking about a particular area in the US rather than in the US as a whole?  In Scotland, where I am, daily infection rates have dropped a lot from the peak.  Yesterday there were 11 new cases whereas a couple of weeks ago it was in the hundreds.  So that's more like a first wave come to an end, with potential for a second wave in a few weeks time once lockdown eases and people start taking more risks.  But in the US it seems as though there hasn't been huge variation in the peaks and troughs since early April...and looking at the graph, yesterday there were 27,000 new cases.  

By this point, I don't even bother listening to updates.  I just glance at the daily statistics to see what's happening, because everything else is just political noise.

here, we've had 1,061 confirmed cases, and of those, 64 died. All but four deaths were in one long term care facility. There's currently one active case, and no new cases for ten days now. That's out of a population of more than 900 thousand..
 

A lot of people are convinced they had covid-19 back in February, but since testing wasn't really available at the time, no one knows for sure.

[sothereiwas]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:49 PM, CaliforniaGirl said:

That's a lot of extra work for those people you claim are babysitters.

It turns out that the school district is doing exactly what I expected and predicted; picking up the new school year via remote learning. The resumption of 'normal' school is TBD. 

[QuietRiot]

On 8/19/2020 at 12:39 PM, sothereiwas said:

It turns out that the school district is doing exactly what I expected and predicted; picking up the new school year via remote learning. The resumption of 'normal' school is TBD. 

With many of the in-person schools having to close down in-person classes altogether due to outbreaks and reverting 100% to online learning.