How is COVID-19 controlled until a vaccine is found?

[nittygritty]

I think they will eventually figure out that it is impossible to control the spread of the Covid-19 virus. Just like it is impossible to control the spread of the flu or a cold. There is not a “one size fits all” solution. Sure there are some common sense precautions that can be taken like frequent hand washing, social distancing when possible, not going to work sick, extra precautions being taken with immune compromised individuals and the elderly etc. But there may never be a vaccine and even if a vaccine is developed and approved, the government (at least in the US) cannot force people to be vaccinated or even be tested for antibodies or other tests being talked about. It takes years to study the effectiveness and possible complications of new vaccines. 

Are we going to continue to do away with dental work and other procedures and services that clearly involve possible exposure until researchers and doctors come up with a vaccine?  Of course not. They are going to be reopening businesses and elective medical procedures and services in the next few weeks in many US states and cities. The immediate pandemic crisis has been addressed and controlled as much as possible as far as making sure hospitals were not overwhelmed and that they have enough PPE and to slow the spread. It was never intended to be permanent way of living until a vaccine is developed. Unfortunately, the lockdowns and temporary closure of businesses and elective medical procedures and services has created a huge economic crisis that will take some time to recover.

[poppyfields]

45 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

A lot of people just plain don't seem to understand that there is a big difference between this virus and the "regular" flu.  The regular flu doesn't require nearly the number of hospitalizations that corona does.....

 

Oh trust me, I know quite well the difference between the flu and corona, that wasn't my point.

My point was that does the government have the right to intervene on a free society and impose restrictions on a free society that are affecting that free society in such a profoundly negative and detrimental way? 

I just don't know, but it's worth at least asking the question, no? 

The so called eviction moratoriums are essentially useless, as in CA, they're only in place until May 31st, and a tenant is still required to pay back rent in full otherwise they will get evicted. 

I know Trump has an extended moratorium for 90 days, same thing, all back rent must be paid, and many folks are living paycheck to paycheck so that is simply not going to work and many folks will be out on the streets due to this "government" imposed lockdown.

It's now been discovered that 75% won't see a stimulus check for months, due to a "glitch" in the system, so much for that that extra financial help.

How about everyone become responsible on their own, maintain proper social distance, wear face masks and gloves when shopping, DON'T sneeze or cough on anyone and cover your month, eat well, drink fluids, take Vit C to boost immunity, we CAN do this without the government interfering like we're children who need to be monitored or something. 

Allow people to work, earn their livings, pay their mortgage and rent and allow our economy to continue to flourish. 

Too idealistic?  Maybe, but it's worth exploring, imo.

Edited April 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

21 minutes ago, Ellener said:

. Deaths globally are now at about half the number in the 1957 and 1968 pandemics

Africa is weeks behind, they are just catching up now.
I guess not many Africans went skiing in North Italy...

Quote

Africa could see anywhere between 300,000 and 3.3 million deaths due to coronavirus, according to the UN Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA).It warned that if the continent does not implement measures to prevent the spread of the virus then total infections could spiral out of control and reach 1.2 billion. But if intense social distancing measures are implemented, the number of total infections could drop to 122 million by the end of the pandemic. 

 

[elaine567]

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

How about everyone become responsible, maintain proper social distance, wear face masks and gloves when shopping, DON'T sneeze or cough on anyone and cover your month, eat well, drink fluids, take Vit C to boost immunity, we CAN do this without the government interfering like we're children who need to be monitored or something.

They tried that in the UK at first  - it didn't work.
YOU may be an adult, but many are just big kids and accept no responsibility, do what they want as it is all about them, and they ruin the whole thing.

Edited April 18, 2020 by elaine567

[Redhead14]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

How about everyone become responsible on their own, maintain proper social distance, wear face masks and gloves when shopping, DON'T sneeze or cough on anyone and cover your month, eat well, drink fluids, take Vit C to boost immunity, we CAN do this without the government interfering like we're children who need to be monitored or something. 

 

Because EVERYONE won't do that.  Lots aren't now.  There are way too many entitled, myopic people in this country and the world who just don't get it PERIOD.  They do not have the right to allow themselves to be walking weapons and compromise the rest of the people who may actually try to do what's needed. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

I'll probably get beat up for saying this, but imo this covid-19 crisis calls into question whether the "government" has the right to impose these restrictions and lockdowns on us, a free society, at all.

Like any other virus, say the flu for example, of which thousands die from every year even with a vaccine, it's up to each of us to take the proper steps to take care of ourselves during flu season and beyond. 

If that means wearing a face mask at certain times, so be.

So perhaps that will be the way with corona as well, as this lockdown cannot last forever, it simply can't. And a vaccine could be years away.  I've heard and read this being discussed. 

Businesses are suffering, some having to close doors permanently, folks losing jobs, unemployment is at a record high, people losing homes, and businesses going under both due to inability to pay mortgage, people out on the streets as they can no longer afford rent. 

In CA we've been locked down for one month, and although early last week for a few days it appeared the curve was flattening, numbers and deaths are way up again, so what is this lockdown doing exactly, other than destroying our economy and destroying people's lives? 

Sorry guys, just had to get that off my chest, stress level exttemely high today. 

I’m sorry you are having a stressful day. It is unbelievably stressful, not only the health concerns but also the very real economic concerns this pandemic has brought upon us.

You make a good point, if this was a typical flu. But, it’s not. Reports out of Japan today say that their hospitals are turning away people who are having heart attacks, because their medical system is on the verge of collapse. They used an ice skating arena in Spain to keep dead bodies. If you have been locked down for one month and the numbers are still going up, it’s because the lockdown was too late, the number of infections is too high, and there has not been enough time for the curve to actually flatten... If the country is locked down, it is for good measure. No politician said, I think we should inflict untold harm on people by shutting down the economy for weeks...

We have to trust our public health officials. It’s a difficult time for everyone. Take care. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

They tried that in the UK at first it didn't work.
YOU may be an adult, but many are just big kids and accept no responsibility, do what they want as it is all about them, and they ruin the whole thing.

Fair enough, but when they see the damage they can do, to themselves and their own families, by being so irresponsible (i.e become infected) , perhaps they may begin behaving like responsible adults? 

So I guess what you're saying is that we (or at least some folks who ruin it for the rest of us) are like children who need to be monitored, god that's so disheartening and sad!!! 

Edited April 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Africa is weeks behind, they are just catching up now.

Africa is also not testing the same way as other developed countries are testing - and some of those countries have had difficulty with testing. We don’t have an accurate reflection of infection rates in Africa, India, Italy, or the US, to name only a few. 

Deaths are also the last measure of this pandemic. And as Elaine said, Africa is behind other countries. 

CNN article said today, South Sudan is a country of 12 million people. They have 24 ICU beds and 4 ventilators. How do you think that’s going to go? Now, to their benefit, their population is likely much younger than, Italy for example. Still... 

Edited April 18, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

How about everyone become responsible on their own, maintain proper social distance, wear face masks and gloves when shopping, DON'T sneeze or cough on anyone and cover your month, eat well, drink fluids, take Vit C to boost immunity, we CAN do this without the government interfering like we're children who need to be monitored or something.

The other reason why this will not work, this is an asymptomatic pandemic. Even if we could trust people to do what is required, and clearly we can’t as they opened the beaches in Florida this weekend and people crowded the beach... it’s difficult to control a virus that spreads without your awareness. 

[Redhead14]

The government(s) is not acting out of a desire to be authoritarian or militaristic to impede freedom.  It is acting out of a need to protect the citizens, all citizens, not just certain ones and realizing that there are some people who cannot or will not voluntarily adhere to guidelines and will act out in a way that suits only them because they either don't care, think they are insulated somehow, and holding onto some arrogant believe system that says that they should be exempt from law and acts designed to keep order.  The government hasn't done one thing that suggests it's goal is to take away our freedom as a principle.  Our forefathers came here to to get away from a tyrannical, abusive, oppressive government not set up a free-for-all playground.  They came here to set up "reasonable" government for the people and one that protects it's citizens.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Redhead14

[nittygritty]

2 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Because EVERYONE won't do that.  Lots aren't now.  There are way too many entitled, myopic people in this country and the world who just don't get it PERIOD.  They do not have the right to allow themselves to be walking weapons and compromise the rest of the people who may actually try to do what's needed. 

And that is never going to change. If you feel the need to wear a face mask and gloves in public go right ahead but it is not practical in every situation, it is not available to everyone and it creates a situation where criminals can commit more crimes without easily being identifiable. 

[Redhead14]

1 minute ago, nittygritty said:

And that is never going to change. If you feel the need to wear a face mask and gloves in public go right ahead but it is not practical in every situation, it is not available to everyone and it creates a situation where criminals can commit more crimes without easily being identifiable. 

Ugh

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, Redhead14 said:

Ugh

Point proven. 😂

Edited April 18, 2020 by BaileyB

[Redhead14]

Just now, BaileyB said:

Point proven. 

I love it when I get "help" like this

[BaileyB]

48 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

The so called eviction moratoriums are essentially useless, as in CA, they're only in place until May 31st, and a tenant is still required to pay back rent in full otherwise they will get evicted. 

All back rent must be paid, and many folks are living paycheck to paycheck so that is simply not going to work and many folks will be out on the streets due to this "government" imposed lockdown.

It's now been discovered that 75% won't see a stimulus check for months, due to a "glitch" in the system, so much for that that extra financial help.

Allow people to work, earn their livings, pay their mortgage and rent and allow our economy to continue to flourish. 

Too idealistic? 

Sadly, this is pretty much what will happen in the US. The lack of of governmental assistance or a safety net will require the premature end of lockdown, people return to work because the rent must be paid and they need money to put food on the table, and this virus will continue to ravage the country in much the same way that it has done so this past month.

Lockdown, as an effort to flatten the curve, is a last ditch attempt to limit the loss of life. 

Idealistic? I would say it is a sad reality. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by BaileyB

[Redhead14]

20 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Sadly, this is pretty much what will happen in the US. The lack of of governmental assistance or a safety net will require the premature end of lockdown, people return to work because the rent must be paid and they need money to put food on the table, and this virus will continue to ravage the country in much the same way that it has done so this past month.

“Flattening” the curve doesn’t seem to be possible anymore in many areas of the country, certInly not as a way to get out in front of this virus.

Idealistic? I would say it is a sad reality. 

Nope, it only takes a few people to decide to do whatever the F they want  which will guarantee that this virus continues to circulate and kill more people and take away the freedom of the older, yet still active/productive people who worked their whole lives only to become prisoners in their own homes and isolated indefinitely.  Sad indeed. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Redhead14

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

it only takes a few people to decide to do whatever the F they want 

It is what it is.

We live in a democracy and our people are free.

In a situation like this there will always be people come out vehemently on either side of an argument.

It takes a level-headed intelligent thoughtful path down the middle for most things.

We need to re-discover the concept of balance in politics in America.

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I guess not many Africans went skiing in North Italy...

Africans have been living with Ebola and the brunt of the HIV pandemic for years; at least they shouldn't be as exposed to this one.

 

[nittygritty]

7 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

Nope, it only takes a few people to decide to do whatever the F they want  which will guarantee that this virus continues to circulate and kill more people and take away the freedom of the older, yet still active/productive people who worked their whole lives only to become prisoners in their own homes and isolated indefinitely.  Sad indeed. 

My state and city does not require people to wear face masks and gloves when they leave their house and we are doing better than many states as far as the spread of Covid-19. Maybe even building up stronger immune systems, who knows?  But it’s a red state. We don’t have people pooping in the streets and Don’t pass out needles to homeless drug addicts or have sanctuary cities. 

[Foxhall]

11 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Mass testing, contact tracing and isolating of those positive, possibly aided by a contact tracing app. This seems to have worked in some Asian countries.

this is likely to be the most commonly used approach,combined with wearing of masks,

Id imagine a vaccine can be found by March 2021 or earlier, rather than later forecasts- surely with all these scientific minds- 

this anti viral drug remdesivir is getting positive feedback so far, it is possible this could be operational by July - it might yet be the breakthrough,

people are reluctant to embrace herbal medicines but they are having positive results- based on a recent Chinese study,

Hoping the lockdowns can end by early June anyway although hard to be confident,

just one other thing, a couple of posters mentioned sports events being postponed long term- I dont think that is correct- sports events can be staged without an audience- behind closed doors- so Id expect most of these up and running again (behind closed doors) by July.

 

 

[littleblackheart]

It can't be 'controlled' now, that ship has sailed. Most of us, because of our gvts' skewed priorities, have been put in a reactive position. Besides that, we are learning about the virus as we go along. Personally, I am completely blown away by the speed with which epidemiologists around the world have been moving.

All we can do know is learn from this, have a contingency plan in place for when it happens (and it will, because viruses are part of nature). For now, we try to limit the number of deaths (not just from C19) and prepare for the big scale PTSD looming from people who've lost loved ones they couldn't bury, various mental health issues exploding as a result of self-isolation and massive scale economic crash. Will it make us more caring as a society? My heart says hopefully, my mind and all my instincts say fat chance of that, because we as humans have a strong propensity to not learn from history and repeat the mistakes of the past.

Edited April 18, 2020 by littleblackheart

[Kitty Tantrum]

Frankly, all the talking points being used to promote/justify all this lockdown/social distancing stuff are the same points that really ought to have people questioning whether a vaccine will even be effective.

It's so dangerous because it constantly mutates. There's a chance that even CONTRACTING the disease and recovering won't grant sufficient immunity (whether because of continued mutation and picking up new strains, or because the body simply doesn't respond to it in the necessary way to protect against the same strain - these things are all still about as clear as mud at this point)... but a vaccine will protect everyone as long as enough people get it?

How does that work, exactly? By the time the first vaccine is ready (assuming it's even possible for the body to generate immunity based on exposure) - how many strains will there be that the vaccine will do nothing to protect against? How many different vaccines will we need? How often will the population have to be re-vaccinated? If said vaccines are rushed through the development and testing phase straight through to widespread implementation - will they be SAFE?

[Redhead14]

19 minutes ago, Ellener said:

It is what it is.

We live in a democracy and our people are free.

In a situation like this there will always be people come out vehemently on either side of an argument.

It takes a level-headed intelligent thoughtful path down the middle for most things.

We need to re-discover the concept of balance in politics in America.

Africans have been living with Ebola and the brunt of the HIV pandemic for years; at least they shouldn't be as exposed to this one.

 

People are not FREE to allow themselves to be walking petri dishes for diseases that they knowingly will threaten the lives of other FREE people!  I wouldn't give a crap if they wanted to expose themselves to something that would kill only them.  Have at it.  But they do not have the right to be walking weapons.  Just as they do not have the right to drive their cars recklessly or drive drunk. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Redhead14

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

they do not have the right to be walking weapons.

You'd think, but people do have that right here and when someone does something predictably irresponsible other people always suffer.

1 hour ago, littleblackheart said:

Personally, I am completely blown away by the speed with which epidemiologists around the world have been moving.

Me too, and the hardworking response of the essential workers who have risked themselves to care for the sick and keep life going.

[Redhead14]

6 minutes ago, Ellener said:

You'd think, but people do have that right here and when someone does something predictably irresponsible other people always suffer.

 

They outlawed smoking in bars,restaurants and public places, pretty much everywhere . . . so that "other people" wouldn't suffer.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Redhead14

[nittygritty]

Just now, Redhead14 said:

People are not FREE to allow themselves to be walking petri dishes that threaten the lives of other FREE people!  I wouldn't give a crap if they wanted to expose themselves to something that would kill only themselves.  Have at it.  But they do not have the right to be walking weapons.  Just as they do not have the right to drive their cars recklessly or drive drunk.

Sure they are. Every year thousands of people die in the US because someone exposed them to the flu. And there is a vaccine for that.