wise people here

[lifeoflies]

6 minutes ago, texasgreeneyes said:

When do you plan to pursue things with your current OW? Are you waiting for your divorce to be finalized?

yes
in honesty, i contact her every day.  She is many thousands of miles away.

[lifeoflies]

8 minutes ago, texasgreeneyes said:

Does she want to pursue a real relationship with you too?

Yes, i believe she does.

I wont talk about her anymore.  thank you

[lifeoflies]

I did pull away from her in the last years.  she didn't seem to mind but of course she did.

I cant articulate why and we didn't talk about it.  I didn't bring it up.  I feel terrible about that.
I have to begin my life again.  does that seem selfish?  when we split i said i wanted to pursue a post divorce relationship to honor all of our shared memories.  I still want that although I don't feel as strongly about that as i was a few months ago

I see more clearly my culpability.  judging her less.  using that mirror some nice lady mentioned.  BTW..in that mirror i dont see just a MM or a cheater, following some "pattern" as one person smugly wrote.
you guys have been very helpful to me...thank you

[pepperbird]

7 minutes ago, lifeoflies said:

I did pull away from her in the last years.  she didn't seem to mind but of course she did.

I cant articulate why and we didn't talk about it.  I didn't bring it up.  I feel terrible about that.
I have to begin my life again.  does that seem selfish?  when we split i said i wanted to pursue a post divorce relationship to honor all of our shared memories.  I still want that although I don't feel as strongly about that as i was a few months ago

I see more clearly my culpability.  judging her less.  using that mirror some nice lady mentioned.  BTW..in that mirror i dont see just a MM or a cheater, following some "pattern" as one person smugly wrote.
you guys have been very helpful to me...thank you

I'm a bit troubled when I read the bolded. It's actually incredibly selfish and shows a very shallow level of understanding.
That's okay though- it sounds like you are trying to learn and grow as a person.

Edited April 25, 2020 by pepperbird

[lifeoflies]

29 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I'm a bit troubled when I read the bolded. It's actually incredibly selfish and shows a very shallow level of understanding.

I see that.  the bolding was accidental but even unbolded, its still the same.  i feel i have learned alot

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

7 hours ago, lifeoflies said:

no.  the woman i care about is about my age.  I would tell you about her but i am fairly sure you'd kick my ass.  i am sure you'd point out truths i do not want to hear.  Sometimes, when a man is highly motivated, he will do something that everyone knows is crazy.  all the red flags, all the potential "told you so's", be damned.  I have been reading this forum for a couple of weeks.  I am selfish.  I didn't know what love was until her.  She lives far away 

"i am fairly sure you'd kick my ass"...hmmm, if my xMM felt as strongly about my ass-kicking abilities I wonder if he would've taken me more seriously?! Lol! Ok, all kidding aside...

I'm sure you've surmised people on this board are at various stages of their own recovery, so some of the things you write might trigger them to say certain responses, just as their responses can trigger you. Hopefully, you will take notes (in writing if needed) of anything that triggers you. That will provide a roadmap to the new, improved you.

Aside, you've written that you're not following an MM script (or something to that effect). When people here seem to respond as if you are, it's probably because after posting/reading here for years patterns emerge. The longer one spends here, the more clear the patterns become.

Speaking of patterns, I glean from what you've written that you've been conflict avoidant in your past. What steps are you actively taking to change those behavior patterns? and to understand what made you conflict avoidant in the first place?

Lastly, do you have other female friends besides the 'kind lady?' If so, does she know about them? Are you retired? Willing to move to her locale? What's your long-term plan now? Oh, and do you have [adult] kids, or grandkids? If so, what will the storyline be for them?

 

Edited to add: There's a reason why "The truth will set you free" became cliche. Don't be afraid of facing certain truths. Ultimately those truths will lead you to your happiest self (after you reconcile yourself to them and learn from them).

Edited April 26, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[HadMeOverABarrel]

You've already owned up to being cowardly in the past. Clearly you are making headway improving in that area since you are divorcing, and especially since you continue airing your laundry here, despite taking some lashings. I give you credit.

You said, "Sometimes, when a man is highly motivated, he will do something that everyone knows is crazy." Contrary to what response you might expect, your statement is instructional to OW here who are suffering wondering about their MM's levels of sincerity. Ultimately, if a woman means enough to a man, he will move mountains to have her.

[lifeoflies]

2 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Speaking of patterns, I glean from what you've written that you've been conflict avoidant in your past. What steps are you actively taking to change those behavior patterns? and to understand what made you conflict avoidant in the first place?

 

great question.  thank you.  i am going to find a counselor.  the only problem with a counselor is that i will have to trust this person.  i understand alot about how my childhood affected my adulthood but i feel i need some help.  thank you for reading that.

[lifeoflies]

the kind lady is the only person i feel comfortable "talking with".  the only secret i have from her is my participation in this forum.  i dont feel good about it.  i would not be able to explain why i engage with people here.  im not sure myself.

[LivingWaterPlease]

48 minutes ago, lifeoflies said:

the kind lady is the only person i feel comfortable "talking with".  the only secret i have from her is my participation in this forum.  i dont feel good about it.  i would not be able to explain why i engage with people here.  im not sure myself.

It seems to me you're searching for answers about yourself. 

I'm concerned for you about your seeming guilt about participating in the forum without the kind lady knowing about it. Can you tell her about it? 

How can you resolve the guilt and feel at peace? 

[lifeoflies]

5 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

How can you resolve the guilt and feel at peace? 

that's easy.  there is only one way.  i will need to stop posting here until i figure it out.   If she understood and didn't feel threatened.   honesty with her is my number one priority.  i dont want to mess this up.

[lifeoflies]

16 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

I'm concerned for you about your seeming guilt about participating in the forum without the kind lady knowing about it. Can you tell her about it? 

we are separated by thousands of miles and different cultures.  i think she would understand, she is very optimistic, easy going and trusting.  : )  but i'm not sure how to explain my participation to her, in large part,  because i am not sure myself.  thank you for reading my post.

[LivingWaterPlease]

9 minutes ago, lifeoflies said:

that's easy.  there is only one way.  i will need to stop posting here until i figure it out.   If she understood and didn't feel threatened.   honesty with her is my number one priority.  i dont want to mess this up.

That makes sense, lifeoflies.  It's my understanding that carrying guilt can result in depression. Don't want you to hurt yourself! We will look forward to hearing from you again after you have figured it out!

[Lurker123]

Lifeoflies- you really shouldn’t feel guilty about posting on here. Perhaps see it as a form of IC, that’s the way I have looked at it over the past year. You do seem fairly reluctant to be completely open, but that’s ok, it’s not always easy, especially when you are unsure what reaction you might get from others. 
 

Personally I think you’ve done the right thing by walking away from W and now is probably a better time than ever to self reflect and see how you move forward. It does sound like your relationship with W was toxic. If you can find happiness again then so be it. I am slightly confused about this ‘lady friend’ you mention though living thousands of miles away. How will that work going forward? Do you/her have children? 

[Amethyst68]

If I'm right you and this new woman would both be in your 60s. You say you live thousands of miles apart and there is also a cultural difference to navigate. That's a lot to take on at any age but especially when you are older and one of you may have to leave children/grandchildren behind if you relocate. Or are you planning on staying where you are and travelling to visit each other?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

10 hours ago, lifeoflies said:

we are separated by thousands of miles and different cultures.  i think she would understand, she is very optimistic, easy going and trusting.  : )  but i'm not sure how to explain my participation to her, in large part,  because i am not sure myself.  thank you for reading my post.

While honesty and transparency are of utmost importance in building trust/sustainable long-term relationships, you needn't be in a rush to disclose your participation here.  I speak from experience. Here's why:

Probably the reason you are being so "open" is because of your anonymity. It feels safe because your risk of exposure to your real relationships is low; no risk of rejection/judgement/loss from those in your life who's opinions matter most to you (I'll call these people stakeholders). It seems that you are benefiting greatly from posting here. Once you disclose your participation to a stakeholder, you lose your safe place to explore. There are reasons why counselors/therapists maintain confidentiality about what is said in session. Can you imagine if the therapist called your stakeholder after your session to spill the beans on you? (e.g. "Then he said that if you hadn't done it that way, he would've...")

This is your safe place. It is working for you. It will also help to discuss your interactions here with a qualified therapist. You are undergoing a process. It's beneficial to you and all your stakeholders. It will ultimately massively benefit your "kind lady," because you are growing into a better version of yourself.  There's a risk that if you tell her about your participation here, you will become metered on your responses going forward for fear she might read something that creates conflict for you. That hesistation to post/explore without restriction will be compromised; your process/growth will be disrupted. Some time in the future, after completing your process, you can discuss all that you did to get there. When/what to disclose is a good thing for you to discuss with therapist. Hope I've explained myself clearly?

Please kindly answer the questions I posed in my last posting to you on this thread. Thank you.

[lifeoflies]

I have no idea how i

8 hours ago, Lurker123 said:

If you can find happiness again then so be it. I am slightly confused about this ‘lady friend’ you mention though living thousands of miles away. How will that work going forward? Do you/her have children? 

I don't know how it will work but i have some ideas.  i have no children except my parrot, she has a grown daughter

[lifeoflies]

14 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Lastly, do you have other female friends besides the 'kind lady?' If so, does she know about them? Are you retired? Willing to move to her locale? What's your long-term plan now? Oh, and do you have [adult] kids, or grandkids? If so, what will the storyline be for them?

I have no female friends other than my friend.  Friendship with females was how i always got in trouble.  if i had a friendship with a woman, my friend from the north would be part of that friendship.  A man only develops a secret friendship with a woman if he is keeping open the possibility of sex.  No other reason. 

I'm willing to split time between two countries.  she loves her country as much as i love mine.  she cares enough about me not to ask me to choose.  I am retired but make money online as well.  She is a kind lady.  thoughtful, non confrontational, a peacemaker.  I want to feel commitment and devotion.  She has demonstrated hers.  All i can do it be damn careful i don't lose that woman's trust.  there is nothing more valuable to me.

 

[lifeoflies]

21 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Please kindly answer the questions I posed in my last posting to you on this thread. Thank you.

i answered your questions.  thank you for your thoughtful post

[lifeoflies]

BTW....the "kind lady" is just that and much much more.  i don't want to do ANYTHING that might hurt her.  she says loves me. my feelings are powerful.  i pulled away for over a year.  I was doing the "right" thing.   I missed her horribly.  she was wonderful, didn't push me.  she even wrote me and i didnt respond.  when i decided to divorce my wife, i reached out to her, halfway expecting her to be angry.  she opened up to me like nothing had happened!!..no recrimination, no guilt trip.  I will NEVER do that to her again.  How could a man not love a woman so devoted to him?

[lifeoflies]

5 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

Or are you planning on staying where you are and travelling to visit each other?

no definite plans but i think we will need to establish separate residences and visit, gradually working up to 6 months there, 6 months in south Florida.  we need to talk with each other about this.  i just want to be with her  :  )

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

11 minutes ago, lifeoflies said:

How could a man not love a woman so devoted to him?

I'm sure many OW wonder the same thing. One of the last things said to me after 4.5 years (and a million tears) of off and on contact:

"It’s just that I feel I can’t always reciprocate your feelings, the way you want me to."

[HadMeOverABarrel]

 DELETED

Guessing from your choice of words, I'm wondering if 'amicus curiae' has anything to do with your past secret keeping or passive aggression in personal relationships?

Edited April 26, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[Gr8fuln2020]

12 hours ago, lifeoflies said:

the kind lady is the only person i feel comfortable "talking with".  the only secret i have from her is my participation in this forum.  i dont feel good about it.  i would not be able to explain why i engage with people here.  im not sure myself.

For the most part, the same reasons we all do. Having someone to bounce off ideas, concerns, and commiserating, if possible, allows us to feel like we are part of a community and not alone. This is a form of counseling, though not controlled, so don't rely on forums full of strangers for proper direction and healing. Also, you haven't started renewing yourself until you have made a commitment to therapy and have started it. Talking about looking and acknowledging you need therapy is a great, but you work begins when you get professional, consistent help. Good luck!

[lifeoflies]

7 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

"It’s just that I feel I can’t always reciprocate your feelings, the way you want me to."

obviously it's not you.  i'm not sure women have any idea how difficult it is for men  confronted by a woman's love.  it can turn a strong man into a puddle.  i'm sure he could "feel" your powerful emotions and knew he couldn't reciprocate them because he didn't now how.  I am sure you "always" demonstrated your feelings, he didnt say he had no feelings, just that he couldnt "always" show them like you.  if he was married, it makes it so much worse.  I hope you are feeling better