Clarity needed from any long term OW/MM.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OP, so many things I wanted to say as I read this thread...made me wish I could have a phone conversation with you to spare my fingers from typing it all out. Still I'm going to try to be concise.

• Seriously ponder that he actually enjoys having a primary and secondary (possibly others to lesser degrees) relationship. His ego is soaring. What an awesome feeling to have TWO attractive women vying for his attention! What's his incentive to give this up? You both have shown him for years that you're both ok with this arrangement...your actions of compliance speak much louder than any words either of you speak. He must feel powerful!
• Have you considered that not only does he have financial, historical, familial, social, and financial ties to his girlfriend, but also enjoys that she is willing to put up with his constant infidelity? That is gold to a cheater. With her, he can be a cake eater indefinitely.
• You are seeing him through rose colored glasses because you love him. You are not seeing him as he really is...an insensitive, selfish, lying cheater. Just like your actions show compliance, you should pay more attention to his actions over his words.
• Don't harm yourself by making excuses for his behavior, or excuses for staying in this. Examples of the former include: he's confused/he's a victim in this/he's just trying to find a way. Examples of the latter include: I'll never feel like this for anyone else/we are meant for each other/our connection is so rare, special, unique, etc. These are self-deceptions that he ultimately benefits from because it keeps you right where he wants you: available and under his control.
• Be very wary of projecting yourself onto him. For example, you are suffering so you think he is, too; -OR- you would never manipulate someone into such a situation so neither would he.
• I love that he can forever avoid leaving his girlfriend. There's no end in sight. You are meant to dangle on his uncertainty for infinity.  BUT if you try to walk away, it's over! Wow! Can you see how he is enforcing his power and control over you? He can do as he pleases for as long as he pleases, but you are NOT afforded the same privilege. (Not something a nice guy would do. Not a nice guy at all!) You must open your eyes to see he employs tactics like this to keep you subservient. Hon, he likes this arrangement no matter what crumbs he feeds you or what he says. Always always always watch what he DOES! Words are the cheapest thing ever.
• You would do well for yourself to give yourself the gift of lots of time away from him in strict no contact. Your heart is really nothing more than a powerful cocktail of hormones/emotions, which will subside over time (like withdrawal from any other drug). Only then will you gain the clarity to see all for what it really is. Already your logical brain, with all its wisdom, is screaming at you that this is not right for you. There's a primordial part of you that ensures your survival. That part of you is being violated here, sounding an alarm within you. Listen to it! 
• All I've written is based on experience. Five years ago I was you. I've been through the gamut...top to bottom with xMM. There's a lot more at play here within you psychologically that doesn't directly relate to your MM, but keeps you stuck in the situation with MM. I hope you will have the courage to explore that within yourself. It's a journey for sure. Mine involved support groups, IC, hypnosis, endless hours of YouTube videos on personality disorders, etc.

By walking away, your worst outcome is either MM eventually wakes up to get his act together for you, or you'll meet someone better who will meet your needs and is more deserving of you.  All the best to you!

Edited April 21, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel
Typo

[JimmyNorth]

6 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

OP, so many things I wanted to say as I read this thread...made me wish I could have a phone conversation with you to spare my fingers from typing it all out. Still I'm going to try to be concise.

• Seriously ponder that he actually enjoys having a primary and secondary (possibly others to lesser degrees) relationship. His ego is soaring. What an awesome feeling to have TWO attractive women vying for his attention! What's his incentive to give this up? You both have shown him for years that you're both ok with this arrangement...your actions of compliance speak much louder than any words either of you speak. He must feel powerful!
• Have you considered that not only does he have financial, historical, familial, social, and financial ties to his girlfriend, but also enjoys that she is willing to put up with his constant infidelity? That is gold to a cheater. With her, he can be a cake eater indefinitely.
• You are seeing him through rose colored glasses because you love him. You are not seeing him as he really is...an insensitive, selfish, lying cheater. Just like your actions show compliance, you should pay more attention to his actions over his words.
• Don't harm yourself by making excuses for his behavior, or excuses for staying in this. Examples of the former include: he's confused/he's a victim in this/he's just trying to find a way. Examples of the latter include: I'll never feel like this for anyone else/we are meant for each other/our connection is so rare, special, unique, etc. These are self-deceptions that he ultimately benefits from because it keeps you right where he wants you: available and under his control.
• Be very wary of projecting yourself onto him. For example, you are suffering so you think he is, too; -OR- you would never manipulate someone into such a situation so neither would he.
• I love that he can forever avoid leaving his girlfriend. There's no end in sight. You are meant to dangle on his uncertainty for infinity.  BUT if you try to walk away, it's over! Wow! Can you see how he is enforcing his power and control over you? He can do as he pleases for as long as he pleases, but you are NOT afforded the same privilege. (Not something a nice guy would do. Not a nice guy at all!) You must open your eyes to see he employs tactics like this to keep you subservient. Hon, he likes this arrangement no matter what crumbs he feeds you or what he says. Always always always watch what he DOES! Words are the cheapest thing ever.
• You would do well for yourself to give yourself the gift of lots of time away from him in strict no contact. Your heart is really nothing more than a powerful cocktail of hormones/emotions, which will subside over time (like withdrawal from any other drug). Only then will you gain the clarity to see all for what it really is. Already your logical brain, with all its wisdom, is screaming at you that this is not right for you. There's a primordial part of you that ensures your survival. That part of you is being violated here, sounding an alarm within you. Listen to it! 
• All I've written is based on experience. Five years ago I was you. I've been through the gamut...top to bottom with xMM. There's a lot more at play here within you psychologically that doesn't directly relate to your MM, but keeps you stuck in the situation with MM. I hope you will have the courage to explore that within yourself. It's a journey for sure. Mine involved support groups, IC, hypnosis, endless hours of YouTube videos on personality disorders, etc.

By walking away, your worst outcome is either MM eventually wakes up to get his act together for you, or you'll meet someone better who will meet your needs and is more deserving of you.  All the best to you!

Ahhhh! And that’s the ticket! Walk away and make’em feel the pain! If he really wants you, HE WILL RUN to you!!

You can throw some extra spice on it and start dating someone else. Take pictures even, if MM really see’s you in his future, watch him go as nuts as a betrayed husband!!! 

 

[Nats_16]

Thank you all so much and thanks @JimmyNorthfor an ex MM view of the situation. I know exactly what I need to do, I am better than this and it’s not the kind of person I want to be. I’m going to tell him for the last time that he needs to sort out what he wants and to find me in the future if that is what he wants but I am not waiting In the wings anymore I am getting on with healing and then living my life. If he throws his toys out the pram and tells me this is it and if I leave now do t expect him to find me then was he even that serious about wanting to be with me as he said he was.As someone pointed out my gut feelings that tell me something is off is my internal protection system trying to tell me to get out of this situation.

[Lylalou]

Nats that’s exactly what I told my MM when you’re free you’ve got my number, he told me he wouldn’t come and find me, because if I didn’t want him now then why would I want him when he’s free!! Really well that’s fine. 
End it, if he leaves you have your answer.

[elaine567]

12 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

Ahhhh! And that’s the ticket! Walk away and make’em feel the pain! If he really wants you, HE WILL RUN to you!!

You can throw some extra spice on it and start dating someone else. Take pictures even, if MM really see’s you in his future, watch him go as nuts as a betrayed husband!!! 

It worked for your OW, she turned up the heat and she got her man.

[lifeoflies]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:30 AM, Nats_16 said:

I cannot believe I have found myself in such a predicament

please tell me why all of this is unbelievable to you?  I think any man or woman is vulnerable to this predicament.  the only way to avoid it is to recognize when you are headed down the slippery slope and not cross the line.  i think if we have an ounce of self-awareness, we can avoid the heartbreak . I don't think anyone is completely blindsided by an affair with the possible exception of the person who trusted you.  can you honesty say you didn't see this coming?  i knew exactly what i was doing.  i had the free will to arrest my feelings and walk away.  when i did that, i didn't get into the predicament.

[lifeoflies]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

It worked for your OW, she turned up the heat and she got her man.

you always seem to keep it real and cut through all the BS.   a very good BS detector.  ..guess you've seen more than your share.

Edited April 22, 2020 by lifeoflies

[heartwhole2]

12 hours ago, Nats_16 said:

Thank you all so much and thanks @JimmyNorthfor an ex MM view of the situation. I know exactly what I need to do, I am better than this and it’s not the kind of person I want to be. I’m going to tell him for the last time that he needs to sort out what he wants and to find me in the future if that is what he wants but I am not waiting In the wings anymore I am getting on with healing and then living my life. If he throws his toys out the pram and tells me this is it and if I leave now do t expect him to find me then was he even that serious about wanting to be with me as he said he was.As someone pointed out my gut feelings that tell me something is off is my internal protection system trying to tell me to get out of this situation.

If you walk away, let it be for you. I don't recommend that anyone play games, not the BW, not the OW . . . Say what you want and what you need and walk away if you don't get it. It's so easy for a cheater with two people who want him to feel entitled and to only chase one of them when he feels her slipping through his grasp. This isn't middle school; this is grownup land. 

I do agree that you shouldn't stick around in an affair that's making you unhappy just because he might have been just about to pick you if you'd stuck around a little while longer. And I agree that if he wants a monogamous, real world relationship with you, he'll make it happen. But I don't recommend playing games or trying to make him jealous. Manipulation has no part in a healthy relationship. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

11 hours ago, lifeoflies said:

you always seem to keep it real and cut through all the BS.   a very good BS detector.  ..guess you've seen more than your share.

@elaine567ELAINE, I think someone has a crush on you. 😜

I can't blame him tho...You are one sharp cookie. 😀

[lifeoflies]

that is a scurrilous falsehood

[SummerDreams]

3 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

@elaine567ELAINE, I think someone has a crush on you. 😜

 

Over my dead body! I saw her first! She is my favorite poster! 🤨

[JimmyNorth]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:36 AM, elaine567 said:

It worked for your OW, she turned up the heat and she got her man.

Yes it did!