Fear is the fastest spreading Virus

[trackday]

Sent to me by a good friend in Australia.

Moderator's note: Third-party content removed

I’m not asking people to believe me, I’m just asking that you ask questions & think outside of the mainstream narrative being pushed.

[preraph]

People can carry this without knowing they have it, and people like me are at very high risk to die from it.  So ....no.   

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, trackday said:

losing all hope for humanity?

Who loses all hope for humanity in response to a pandemic?

It's a pain in the ass, sure, but unless I'm the one sick or dying or bereaved it's a bit self-indulgent for me to act like it's the end of the world. 

Australia has so few cases precisely because of your strict measures, just be thankful you'll get back to normal soon. The US is seeing some pretty awful situations especially New York.

There's few cases where I am so I am just thankful, and sad for all the other people/places. We've been through a lot of disasters in my city, so I knew we'd cope and people would step up, they always do here.

Don't know what to say about 'dobbing', not usually very helpful is it...creates neighbour problems. I've never been to Australia but always imagined Australians as self-reliant and uncomplaining!

Hope you get back to normal very soon.

[poppyfields]

31 minutes ago, trackday said:

 81,000 people have died of Corona globally since November while 131,000 people have died from seasonal flu. 

That^ is one statistic that I'm still trying to wrap my brain around.

Anyway, I can't say I disagree with anything written in your post.  I made a similar post asking does the government have the right to impose these enormous restrictions on a free society, restrictions that have the potential to devastate our economy and destroying lives? 

After many responses suggesting many folks are like children who need to be monitored, I still don't think the government has the right, but trying to accept what's happening nevertheless for my own peace of mind.

I live in the US.

Edited April 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[Libby1]

Not sure when your friend wrote this, but the death toll passed 100,000 on the 10th of April.  We're now at 19th April and more than 160,000 people have now died of COVID-19 globally since November.  That's despite several weeks of lockdown in some of the hardest hit regions of the world.  Not to mention the numbers of people who haven't died, but who are in intensive care.  Australia still has a very low death rate from it (67 at last count) so it's understandable that people over there don't take it so seriously and are hacked off about restrictions  On the other hand, without restrictions in place it's amazing just how fast various countries in Europe went from a few dozen deaths to hundreds of deaths per day.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quoted third-party content

[Emilie Jolie]

2.4 M people have been affected by the virus so far, worldwide,  of which 1.6 M are active (current) cases. 164 565 have died.  That's just the confirmed (tested) cases. You need to update your stats, trackday.

[Ellener]

Here are the stats https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[trackday]

Your quite correct the stats are a few days out of date, but that doesn’t change the narrative 😱

[Philosopher]

 

27 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

 On the other hand, without restrictions in place it's amazing just how fast various countries in Europe went from a few dozen deaths to hundreds of deaths per day.

 

Here in the UK, the lockdown started quite late, due partly over concerns a lockdown would have on the economy and that the population would not tolerate it well. There were around 1000 hospital deaths when the lockdown started just under 4 weeks ago and now there are over 16,000 hospital deaths and the daily number of deaths has only started to come down in the past week. Therefore I think Australia was sensible to start a lockdown early on. 

[gaius]

A quarantine is a tool used to stop the spread of disease. It's not limited to only sick people.

The word actually comes from the Italian word for a 40 day period. Back in the day Venice used to make ships arriving from areas with the plague sit offshore for 40 days before they were allowed to dock. Not because they were sick, but because the time period would allow them to see if the crew developed plague symptoms or not.

I don't know if your friend is watching too much Star Wars but history is littered with examples of civil rights being temporarily curtailed to stop the spread of disease and then being restored when the threat was over. Life's not always a Sith plot, despite what you see in the movies.

[Libby1]

2 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

 

Here in the UK, the lockdown started quite late, due partly over concerns a lockdown would have on the economy and that the population would not tolerate it well. There were around 1000 hospital deaths when the lockdown started just under 4 weeks ago and now there are over 16,000 hospital deaths and the daily number of deaths has only started to come down in the past week. Therefore I think Australia was sensible to start a lockdown early on. 

Yep, I live in the UK too.  Did you get a look at the Times article holding the goverment to account?  I see Matt Hancock has tweeted out a link to an official government response accusing it of falsehoods and errors.   But we all saw Boris Johnson's tv appearances in the early stages, his jovial references to shaking hands with coronavirus patients etc.  Most people I know didn't seem to be taking it remotely seriously until mid March or so, and I think the government "play it down" approach contributed significantly to that.

[elaine567]

I hear now that poor Boris was busy with Brexit, busy reshuffling his cabinet, busy with his divorce, busy with his  mistress  fiancee being pregnant, busy at his country retreat ... we can't possibly sack him... 
smh

[Philosopher]

52 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

Yep, I live in the UK too.  Did you get a look at the Times article holding the goverment to account?  I see Matt Hancock has tweeted out a link to an official government response accusing it of falsehoods and errors.   But we all saw Boris Johnson's tv appearances in the early stages, his jovial references to shaking hands with coronavirus patients etc.  Most people I know didn't seem to be taking it remotely seriously until mid March or so, and I think the government "play it down" approach contributed significantly to that.

Yes I did read that article, the government certainly do sound quite defensive in their response. I know many of my friends where assuming it was more akin to the flu and I until the outbreak in Italy I was unsure whether it was more like flu or something more seriously. I suppose with these things you have to err on the side of caution, it is better to over rather than under react. 

[trackday]

I think we sometimes get numb by all the stats that fly around. I read today that there have been 20 million abortions so far this year 2020 and growing by 1 per second, I guess I'm not affected so the gravity hasn't hit home yet.

Edited April 19, 2020 by trackday

[Foxhall]

I share your frustration buddy, in my country all I am asking for is to be allowed travel further than 2 miles from the house but that is proving difficult with police out in force, 

we are scheduled for a review on May 5th, I dont know they may relax that restriction but they may not either,

I suppose on balance while the loss of freedom is hard, one has to accept it for the greater good,

our stats of 600 deaths out of 5 million doesnt compare favourably with Australia's but it would be much worse if the lockdowns were not in place,

 the problem is the mentality of the people - if you give people an inch they will take a mile, they will not keep social distancing, they or some of them anyway will not be careful about their coughing and sneezing habits.

in theory it should be possible to ease restrictions but will people play their part or will they just do their own thing,

at what point will countries make a decision- just let it run in the communities,

I imagine they will hold out for the guts of a year and at that point there should be a vaccine.

based on your figures though, Australia looks close to re-opening?

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed third-party content

[nittygritty]

It depends on where you live but it has been a month where I live that those deemed “non essential” have been out of work, businesses closed and “stay home” policies have been in place. Restrictions are going to start being lifted in the next few weeks to reopen what’s left of the destroyed economy.
 

Some State Governors and City Mayors have absolutely abused their power with this which is why we will likely continue to see more protests. People are not going to put up with being treated like they are criminals that need to live in isolation. It is an unrealistic expectation. And it is not healthy for people to live that way. The crisis “cure” has now created an even bigger, major economic crisis that is negatively effecting millions of people. Billions globally.

Edited April 19, 2020 by nittygritty

[elaine567]

It's not healthy for people to be dying of the virus...
Do you really think people all over the world shut down everything over "nothing"
One state maybe, one small country maybe, but everywhere???
We still know very little about what this virus is indeed capable of.
But carry on... fingers in the ears lalala...

[trackday]

Yes, I brings a whole new meaning to the word "over reaction"  We have 14 people who have tested positive in our town of 100,000 people, yet the whole town is shut. I have 2 good friends that have lost their businesses. I hear statements like "we need to be wise" sadly the majority aren't able to discern the difference between wisdon & fear. 

[divegrl]

It’s an ethics question:

 

Is your freedom worth more then the lives of others?

 

Staying home is the greatest act of love we can do for one another. This does not come from a place of fear; but for having deep compassion for all beings on this planet.

 

 

[trackday]

41 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

It's not healthy for people to be dying of the virus...
Do you really think people all over the world shut down everything over "nothing"
One state maybe, one small country maybe, but everywhere???
We still know very little about what this virus is indeed capable of.
But carry on... fingers in the ears lalala...

I agree its tragic that people are dying of this nasty Covid-19 Virus. But people die every day, I dont say that to be cold or hard hearted, it's a fact. Another fact is 2 million abortions have taken place since 1st January 2020 and that number grows by 1 every second. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[homecoming]

There are many conspiracy theories I am inclined to believe in - the death of Princess Diana, or the moon landings, for example. Those seem to solid enough reasoning behind them for me to take an interest (not that I do believe them 100%). 

With Covid-19 (and other CTs, such as 5G) I can't see what would be gained from lying to society? Why would the government want to take away freedom? It's not something I've ever understood (call me stupid!). I don't see why everything has to be analysed, and I feel like it just adds stress to life. Not to say don't question things, but must everything be a conspiracy?

[nittygritty]

If we were to hear the life story of every person that tested positive for the flu and died everyday on the news, would the reaction be the same?  Obviously not because they don’t do it simply because there is a vaccine. That may or may not even prevent it for some that died of the flu and had the seasonal vaccine.

Edited April 20, 2020 by nittygritty

[Emilie Jolie]

6 minutes ago, trackday said:

people die every day, I dont say that to be cold or hard hearted, it's a fact. 

People die every day, because we're mortal...Sounds like finding a way to protect each other so less of us die needlessly is a completely normal, basic human reaction. And if you wanted to be thorough, you'd call it the Globalised Industries Virus; if you're interested (long shot), read Laura Spinney on this, she explains the history of viruses quite well.

FYI, there is zero link between deaths from contracting a virus and abortions.

[Emilie Jolie]

This pandemic is on regardless of your opinion of it. If you don't want to hear about it (your prerogative), then switch off the news?

[LivingWaterPlease]

48 minutes ago, divegrl said:

It’s an ethics question:

 

Is your freedom worth more then the lives of others?

 

Staying home is the greatest act of love we can do for one another. This does not come from a place of fear; but for having deep compassion for all beings on this planet.

 

 

I'm reposting because I didn't get a field to post in before so posted in the wrong place.

I disagree that staying home is an act of love. I believe staying home is an act of fear, which does not equate to love, and going out, taking precautions, is an act of love for freedom for all the people in my country, those who are healthy and those who are unhealthy.

IMO, it's always important to wash hands and be careful of getting or giving disease to others. But, IMO, staying home does not accomplish protection from the coronavirus because at some point we'll all get it anyway. I don't intend to get into debating of vaccine protection because opinions of experts as to the probability of that differs and we don't have one at this point, anyway.

There are people I know personally whose lives are being ruined by being forced to stay home during this quarantine. 

Many of us have ancestors who have risked their lives for freedom in my country. My own have fought throughout generations beginning with the Revolutionary War, continuing through World War 2 and the Vietnam war.  The least I can do is to stand for freedom now.

Those who feel their health is threatened are free to take whatever measures are needed to protect themselves. And that is possible.

Most of us drive our cars everyday, although there is always the risk of being killed in an automobile accident. That's no reason to stay off the roads, though, who knows, with the mindset being adopted it may come to that at some point; only a certain amount of cars allowed on the road at one time. No analogy is perfect so please spare me of pointing out where this one doesn't correlate to the present coronavirus social distancing measures taken. 

I haven't posted much about this yet because I don't have time to follow up by responding much. There are deep lines of division over beliefs on this issue. I know very many people who believe it is a big mistake to quarantine those who are healthy.