do you just eventually give up?

[miranda561]

21 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have not social life at all or very little, my singular focus is on work for the simple reason there is comfort there, its the place where trying and persistence does deliver intangible results and satisfaction from never giving up. Its my excuse for being single.

Again I will say it, hoping for something great is better than living in an average reality. Ironically I could probably have friend zoned a few people off dating sites but they aren't looking for friends. 

Again someone unfit, uneducated/poorly educated/no drive or ambition, that person is never going to excite me. I cannot get enthusiastic about what I don't find interesting. Ladies will say the same of me of course which is fine.

Ultimately all I want accomplish is one great experience, I have had some good ones and when I say good it means I spent time with someone I like overall, no one feature was outstanding but the person themselves was outstanding overall. For me that's intellect combined with looks and presentation which suggest the person actually looks after themselves.

If I never find it, I can take some solace I know it is out there, just not attainable for me.

You need to be more open minded and stop having this poor me atittude all the time. Its funny as i have a male friend like you, exactly  the same. Always whining about how ugly he is and how no one will accept him the way he is? Mostly the 10/10 women he aspires to get. I find it so annoying. Imagine how those women he does end up going on dates will end up viewing him and feeling about him. 

Beauty is on a scale. You'll get average, then more than average (pretty), then beautiful ( victoria secret types) - which is what you want. Its not realistic to always aim for that. Sorry to say.

Why dont you at least  try to be a little more open minded? 

Oh and btw that  friend of mine is still stuck and has been stuck in the same cycle for years now. Is that what you want? 

 

 

 

[ZA Dater]

46 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

You need to be more open minded and stop having this poor me atittude all the time. Its funny as i have a male friend like you, exactly  the same. Always whining about how ugly he is and how no one will accept him the way he is? Mostly the 10/10 women he aspires to get. I find it so annoying. Imagine how those women he does end up going on dates will end up viewing him and feeling about him. 

Beauty is on a scale. You'll get average, then more than average (pretty), then beautiful ( victoria secret types) - which is what you want. Its not realistic to always aim for that. Sorry to say.

Why dont you at least  try to be a little more open minded? 

Oh and btw that  friend of mine is still stuck and has been stuck in the same cycle for years now. Is that what you want? 

Well I refuse to date hugely over weight people so lets make that very clear. Friend yes, dates no. I seem to match with these people more often that not, not really sure why to be honest. One of the great mysteries of life I suppose.

FYI I am not looking for models simply slim healthy people. The difference is I don't really talk about dating to people so I tend just do everything on my own and when I do need to do things in groups I simply get a friend to come along with me, she isn't single but she is good company and I am very fond of her.

I'd rather have nothing than someone I don't want/have to force myself to like. I think you will find most people have a similar approach. Oh and I prefer a challenge over something that is easy.

The motto I have is aim for the best because nobody gets up in the morning and decides "well I will be average today", well I certainly don't, each day is an opportunity to try be better than the day before.

Further irony is I know people who settled, they are some of the most unhappy people I know. While I may decry dating I am GLAD I am not one of them because a bad as being alone is I think that would be worse.

 

 

[miranda561]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well I refuse to date hugely over weight people so lets make that very clear. Friend yes, dates no. I seem to match with these people more often that not, not really sure why to be honest. One of the great mysteries of life I suppose.

FYI I am not looking for models simply slim healthy people. The difference is I don't really talk about dating to people so I tend just do everything on my own and when I do need to do things in groups I simply get a friend to come along with me, she isn't single but she is good company and I am very fond of her.

I'd rather have nothing than someone I don't want/have to force myself to like. I think you will find most people have a similar approach. Oh and I prefer a challenge over something that is easy.

The motto I have is aim for the best because nobody gets up in the morning and decides "well I will be average today", well I certainly don't, each day is an opportunity to try be better than the day before.

Further irony is I know people who settled, they are some of the most unhappy people I know. While I may decry dating I am GLAD I am not one of them because a bad as being alone is I think that would be worse.

 

 

Erm i'm on an app and there are lots of normal sized people men and women ive barely  even come across that many overweight people.

Im the same ( i dont want to be in Some thing  im not happy with) but i dont always go for amazing looking men and im fairly attractive according to a lot of guys.  But unlike  you at least i can say i've tried and met a lot of different  types of people. On the odd occasion ive found that there have been growers. Initially there was no attraction from my end but the more I've hung out with the person, theyve grown on me. You on the other hand don't even give it a chance. 

So out of interest when you do approach women you find attractive what happens? 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I refuse to date hugely over weight people ...I seem to match with these people more often that not, not really sure why to be honest. One of the great mysteries of life I suppose.

NO mystery, they feel they are on the same level as you so are in with a chance, or they are just clicking on anyone and everyone in the hope someone says yes, or they are genuinely interested.

 

[basil67]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

FYI I am not looking for models simply slim healthy people. 

A few pages back you talked about red hair on a woman as being something which doesn't attract you.  You're pickier than you realise.

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

A few pages back you talked about red hair on a woman as being something which doesn't attract you.  You're pickier than you realise.

😳 he won't  find anyone at this rate. Im not gonna lie i can also be picky. But after a while ive realised some things  have to be compromised on. 

 

 

[basil67]

Indeed.  I think that much of life is a compromise.

[Weezy1973]

@ZA Dater another one of your beliefs that isn’t helpful is your black and white notion of attraction. The thought that there are two types of women, ones you’re attracted to (models, yoga instructors etc.) and ones you’re  not (overweight, single moms etc.). I understand this as I thought the same way when In was younger and less experienced.

 

I realized though that there was a huge group of women that I was just neutral about. Not attracted, but not repulsed either. And I dated many women from this neutral group. I also for the record dated many women that I was attracted to right away. But guess what? My level of initial attraction had absolutely no correlation with the success of the date or in some cases subsequent relationship. In fact a couple of my most dysfunctional relationships were with women I had the most attraction to initially! Probably because I was ignoring red flags because the attraction was so strong. Not a good strategy. Most importantly I learned from my mistakes and changed what I was doing.

 

Nobody is advocating that you date women you’re repulsed by. But giving yourself the opportunity for someone you’re initially neutral about to become more attractive to you as you build a meaningful connection will definitely be beneficial. This also doesn’t mean you stop approaching women you’re initially attracted to either. Both groups give you a lager pool to choose from, increasing the chances of finding someone that’s a good match. 

[miranda561]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@ZA Dater another one of your beliefs that isn’t helpful is your black and white notion of attraction. The thought that there are two types of women, ones you’re attracted to (models, yoga instructors etc.) and ones you’re  not (overweight, single moms etc.). I understand this as I thought the same way when In was younger and less experienced.

 

I realized though that there was a huge group of women that I was just neutral about. Not attracted, but not repulsed either. And I dated many women from this neutral group. I also for the record dated many women that I was attracted to right away. But guess what? My level of initial attraction had absolutely no correlation with the success of the date or in some cases subsequent relationship. In fact a couple of my most dysfunctional relationships were with women I had the most attraction to initially! Probably because I was ignoring red flags because the attraction was so strong. Not a good strategy. Most importantly I learned from my mistakes and changed what I was doing.

 

Nobody is advocating that you date women you’re repulsed by. But giving yourself the opportunity for someone you’re initially neutral about to become more attractive to you as you build a meaningful connection will definitely be beneficial. This also doesn’t mean you stop approaching women you’re initially attracted to either. Both groups give you a lager pool to choose from, increasing the chances of finding someone that’s a good match. 

He seems to be unable to get past that stage of judging women on their looks.

Ive tried giving that  sort of advice to my friend (who is similar to this guy) for a year now. And A year later hes still the same old. People like that really do take a long time to change their mentality.

Personally i don't  even go for massively attractive men, even though i am attractive myself( according to others). A lot of them seem to be arrogant and probably go through a string of women. Not my cup of tea.

Edited May 9, 2020 by miranda561

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@ZA Dater another one of your beliefs that isn’t helpful is your black and white notion of attraction. The thought that there are two types of women, ones you’re attracted to (models, yoga instructors etc.) and ones you’re  not (overweight, single moms etc.). I understand this as I thought the same way when In was younger and less experienced.

 

I realized though that there was a huge group of women that I was just neutral about. Not attracted, but not repulsed either. And I dated many women from this neutral group. I also for the record dated many women that I was attracted to right away. But guess what? My level of initial attraction had absolutely no correlation with the success of the date or in some cases subsequent relationship. In fact a couple of my most dysfunctional relationships were with women I had the most attraction to initially! Probably because I was ignoring red flags because the attraction was so strong. Not a good strategy. Most importantly I learned from my mistakes and changed what I was doing.

 

Nobody is advocating that you date women you’re repulsed by. But giving yourself the opportunity for someone you’re initially neutral about to become more attractive to you as you build a meaningful connection will definitely be beneficial. This also doesn’t mean you stop approaching women you’re initially attracted to either. Both groups give you a lager pool to choose from, increasing the chances of finding someone that’s a good match. 

Lets say I agree with you. Can you then answer this question, if I must somehow see people I don't find interesting on one date who find me interesting why the same opportunity never given to me?

 

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Lets say I agree with you. Can you then answer this question, if I must somehow see people I don't find interesting on one date who find me interesting why the same opportunity never given to me?

Do you really want a gf or do you want to keep being petty?
As long as you are in some sort of a war with women, then no woman will tolerate you.
Women can spot a bad attitude at a mile.
 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, miranda561 said:

He seems to be unable to get past that stage of judging women on their looks.

Ive tried giving that  sort of advice to my friend (who is similar to this guy) for a year now. And A year later hes still the same old. People like that really do take a long time to change their mentality.

Personally i don't  even go for massively attractive men, even though i am attractive myself( according to others). A lot of them seem to be arrogant and probably go through a string of women. Not my cup of tea.

Everyone judges everyone else on looks to lesser and greater degrees. I have long ago ascertained I don't get follow up dates because of looks, why well probably because like with most people pictures either flatter or they deceive. I have been on great dates with people who have been attractive and smart, heck I have spent hours chatting to them over dinners, laughing and I got positive body language YET what always happens there is no follow up date at all. So tell me if they are relaxed, laughing and a dinner dates goes on for 4 hours why would they not have another date....the obvious answer is looks. A cycle perpetuated and the "swipe generation" where well if you are a lady who is reasonably slim you can find a multitude of guys in fact its a shop and sure some of those guys no doubt just want a night of fun, the fact remains you can pick based on LOOKS alone.

That's the thing I have been out with all sorts of people, different looks, different occupations, different nationalities (foreign ladies are by and large far nicer personality wise) so you cannot accuse me of not actually going out with a wide variety of people. However I am frankly past the point of giving leeway to people which is never offered to me. I am not so desperate to hang onto the attention of someone I don't find interesting or attractive, notice the two distinctions here.

Its very easy for you to give that advice because you admit you are attractive so whilst you don't want massively attractive guys you can get their attention if you wanted to. That's the big difference, I'd guess you friend wants attention from attractive ladies and you cant understand why simply because its a not an issue you face, getting attention from attractive guys.

I have been out, observed and ladies do like being chased by an attractive guy, that much is obvious.

Not all attractive people have attractive personalities, that much I know but one has to set ones sights somewhere and for me that's going to always be on mutual attraction, for me that's the be all and end all of dating, for me attraction is overall, its pointless if she is stunning but cant hold a conversation and likewise its pointless if she has a great personality but doesn't look after herself, I have met lot of the latter and some of the former. There needs to be a balance but there needs to be some feeling about it and I would guess if you asked your friend he probably stopped caring quite a long time ago. People get scarred, they carry those scars, you cant say they are wrong for doing so, you cant say they are right either.

When I go on dates and when I look for matches I consider

1: Is the person likely to be compatible: party types, clubbers they get excluded irrespective of looks or I'll make a call if I can maybe try and fit in.

2: Are they gainfully employed, look where I live and the reasons become obvious

3: Can they communicate well, if not again looks or not this probably rules them out

4: Do they have opinions on things, again irrespective of looks, lack of this rules them out

Notice....looks aren't the be all and end all. Ultimately I am looking for a combination of both looks and intellect and I HAVE met these people, they DO exist but yet no matter what game I bring nothing comes of and it and few months later I will see them with Mr Macho. So was my intellect with anything, apparently not.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Do you really want a gf or do you want to keep being petty?
As long as you are in some sort of a war with women, then no woman will tolerate you.
Women can spot a bad attitude at a mile.
 

I just do not see why I need to grovel and beg. Its simple really, I never get date 2 most of the time anyway irrespective of the person so I am not going to beg people to see me again. No in my opinion its a case of swipe this way, go on date, oh well I am pretty I want a hot guy, he isn't quite that, swipe again. Nowhere in the equation does "well lets give him a chance" or maybe "lets go on another date" fit in. Yet apparently I need to beg people I don't really like that much to see me again so I can give them the benefit of the doubt.

That my whole point when I go on dates I go to get to know the person, not to take them home.

I can think of at least 10 dates I have been on where I'd have loved a second date with the person, dates that did go well and yet well nothing, so again why must I chase what I don't like in order for me to give them a chance in the hope that I might like them better the second time. Makes no sense to me at all.

As for neutral, I don't feel neutral about dates, I either want to spend more time with them or I don't. So no I am not desperate enough to simply go back to going on dates with anyone who will go on a date with me (very few actually) because that's a complete waste of time based on the endless amount of time I spent doing exactly this in the past. Women know their worth and like me they go after what they actually want, I don't see them giving the shy guy in the corner a chance ever. I am ok with this brutal reality because it is just that a reality for some.

A very good example of this was a date I went on, she was super friendly by text, for days, met up in person and it just didn't work, I could see she didn't find me attractive so we went from "you are great" "to well maybe we can be friends" which of course never happened so again where was the leeway given, there was not any.

Ultimately I have a choice hold my head up and walk around happy being me or lets constant dating disappointment have me staring at the floor. In a perfect world there are perhaps three dates I would love to know what went so wrong on them for which I deserved no contact, they all laughed, they all smiled, all displayed relaxed body language and all hugged me warmly afterwards and yet.....I just write that off to them wanting someone better , which is find I guess but if they can do that so can I. I am not going to be backed into a situation of "well she will do" because that goes against everything I believe in when it comes to life itself. For me its always about chasing what I want, that relentless race to see if I can do it most of the time I just chase but believe me its great to work and work and work and finally accomplish something.  I could go after the easy things but I don't because I simply don't like easy, the more difficult, the less likely the more I never give up.

People don't get that and its fine but for many things its the chase of the improbable which truly motivates me.

 

[Emilie Jolie]

59 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

For me its always about chasing what I want, that relentless race to see if I can do it most of the time I just chase but believe me its great to work and work and work and finally accomplish something. 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 7:10 PM, ZA Dater said:

Well maybe, just maybe Bumble has delivered someone relatively interesting.

There is a slight contradiction between these two quotes.

Chasing implies a proactive moves towards getting what you want at all costs; a dating app designed for women to make the first move 'delivering' a 'relatively interesting' prospect shows the exact opposite of chasing. You need to close the gap in this discrepancy between what you say you do do (chasing, aiming for the best) and what you actually  do (passive expectation).

[miranda561]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Everyone judges everyone else on looks to lesser and greater degrees. I have long ago ascertained I don't get follow up dates because of looks, why well probably because like with most people pictures either flatter or they deceive. I have been on great dates with people who have been attractive and smart, heck I have spent hours chatting to them over dinners, laughing and I got positive body language YET what always happens there is no follow up date at all. So tell me if they are relaxed, laughing and a dinner dates goes on for 4 hours why would they not have another date....the obvious answer is looks. A cycle perpetuated and the "swipe generation" where well if you are a lady who is reasonably slim you can find a multitude of guys in fact its a shop and sure some of those guys no doubt just want a night of fun, the fact remains you can pick based on LOOKS alone.

That's the thing I have been out with all sorts of people, different looks, different occupations, different nationalities (foreign ladies are by and large far nicer personality wise) so you cannot accuse me of not actually going out with a wide variety of people. However I am frankly past the point of giving leeway to people which is never offered to me. I am not so desperate to hang onto the attention of someone I don't find interesting or attractive, notice the two distinctions here.

Its very easy for you to give that advice because you admit you are attractive so whilst you don't want massively attractive guys you can get their attention if you wanted to. That's the big difference, I'd guess you friend wants attention from attractive ladies and you cant understand why simply because its a not an issue you face, getting attention from attractive guys.

I have been out, observed and ladies do like being chased by an attractive guy, that much is obvious.

Not all attractive people have attractive personalities, that much I know but one has to set ones sights somewhere and for me that's going to always be on mutual attraction, for me that's the be all and end all of dating, for me attraction is overall, its pointless if she is stunning but cant hold a conversation and likewise its pointless if she has a great personality but doesn't look after herself, I have met lot of the latter and some of the former. There needs to be a balance but there needs to be some feeling about it and I would guess if you asked your friend he probably stopped caring quite a long time ago. People get scarred, they carry those scars, you cant say they are wrong for doing so, you cant say they are right either.

When I go on dates and when I look for matches I consider

1: Is the person likely to be compatible: party types, clubbers they get excluded irrespective of looks or I'll make a call if I can maybe try and fit in.

2: Are they gainfully employed, look where I live and the reasons become obvious

3: Can they communicate well, if not again looks or not this probably rules them out

4: Do they have opinions on things, again irrespective of looks, lack of this rules them out

Notice....looks aren't the be all and end all. Ultimately I am looking for a combination of both looks and intellect and I HAVE met these people, they DO exist but yet no matter what game I bring nothing comes of and it and few months later I will see them with Mr Macho. So was my intellect with anything, apparently not.

It might not even be how u look. Not that  i can tell how you look ( im sure you're ok looks wise). It could be the way you come across on the dates. Next time why not get some feedback from them. Tell them to be real with you.

As for my friend he always says its about how he looks but even just from the offset and his messages that ive read..i literally start cringing. He has no game. Although he thinks he does. But if he gets rejected he thinks oh its because  im ugly etc etc. But  i can guarantee even if he was a ten out of ten, with the way he communicates/what he says, it would be offputting for anyone.

Fair enough  if i wanted an attractive  persons attention i can get it but when i give advice i just see it as if i can give averageishh(looks) ppl a chance ×)why cant he. 

Ive seen  good looking guys with average women and vice versa. Its not something that's never happened in the history of the world

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

So tell me if they are relaxed, laughing and a dinner dates goes on for 4 hours why would they not have another date....the obvious answer is looks. A cycle perpetuated and the "swipe generation" where well if you are a lady who is reasonably slim you can find a multitude of guys in fact its a shop and sure some of those guys no doubt just want a night of fun, the fact remains you can pick based on LOOKS alone.

No, not a fact.   Daughter dated a guy a couple of times just before COVID who had it all going on in the looks department.  Gym guy, tall, smart, good looking in the style she likes.  He actually reverse cat-fished her because he was hotter IRL than in the photos.   But she ditched him because of his private school attitude and use of white drugs.   But because she had been otherwise engaging well with him, he didn't see it coming.  Totally shocked.

If you have accurate photos online, they already know what you look like when they agree to meet you.  It's lack of connection and chemistry which causes them to not have another date.  Thing is, anyone with half decent social skills can hold up their end of a date conversation for a number of hours.  And spending that amount of time with you indicates that they were giving it a proper go.   But giving it a good go doesn't mean that they found enough similarity or vibe to continue.

Edited May 9, 2020 by basil67

[miranda561]

53 minutes ago, basil67 said:

No, not a fact.   Daughter dated a guy a couple of times just before COVID who had it all going on in the looks department.  Gym guy, tall, smart, good looking in the style she likes.  He actually reverse cat-fished her because he was hotter IRL than in the photos.   But she ditched him because of his private school attitude and use of white drugs.   But because she had been otherwise engaging well with him, he didn't see it coming.  Totally shocked.

If you have accurate photos online, they already know what you look like when they agree to meet you.  It's lack of connection and chemistry which causes them to not have another date.  Thing is, anyone with half decent social skills can hold up their end of a date conversation for a number of hours.  And spending that amount of time with you indicates that they were giving it a proper go.   But giving it a good go doesn't mean that they found enough similarity or vibe to continue.

So true. They've already seen how he looks 😂...

I think a lot of it would be lack of connection and chemistry

 I was meeting a guy ( not the one my thread was about) and i wouldnt say he looked the best but not the worst. I met him a number of times. And we would talk for a couple of hours even over food/go cinema etc etc..eventually  i realised i didnt feel the chemistry it was more of a friend vibe. It could be the  same with the op. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by miranda561

[Weezy1973]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Lets say I agree with you. Can you then answer this question, if I must somehow see people I don't find interesting on one date who find me interesting why the same opportunity never given to me?

 

If you go on a date with someone and then aren’t interested you shouldn’t see them again. Nobody is saying to continue seeing someone you’re not interested in or  that you’re not attracted to. 
 

Again the point is to open your mind to the potential for attraction to grow. So if there’s a hard “No”, then no need to continue. But if there’s a “maybe”, why not see what a second date brings? Or a third? It’s getting out of the mentality that you need to be “wowed” on a first date. 
 

A few things about other people giving you a chance:

1. You can’t control what other people do. No need to contemplate the reasons.

2. What other people think of us is none of our business. No need to worry about it.

3. Like I just said with you, if there’s a hard “No”, then no need to continue. So if the date with you was hard no for these women, they did the right thing in moving on. 

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

If you go on a date with someone and then aren’t interested you shouldn’t see them again. Nobody is saying to continue seeing someone you’re not interested in or  that you’re not attracted to. 
 

Again the point is to open your mind to the potential for attraction to grow. So if there’s a hard “No”, then no need to continue. But if there’s a “maybe”, why not see what a second date brings? Or a third? It’s getting out of the mentality that you need to be “wowed” on a first date. 
 

A few things about other people giving you a chance:

1. You can’t control what other people do. No need to contemplate the reasons.

2. What other people think of us is none of our business. No need to worry about it.

3. Like I just said with you, if there’s a hard “No”, then no need to continue. So if the date with you was hard no for these women, they did the right thing in moving on. 

Um. There is never a maybe, the ones I like simply don't want to see me again and the ones I don't like I don't want to see again. What is wrong with this? To me you completely contradict yourself in this post.

Again it would appear I must give them a chance but the people I like should not give me a chance? There is never maybe, its very definitive, probably the one thing I do like about dates, there is no real grey area.

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, miranda561 said:

So true. They've already seen how he looks 😂...

I think a lot of it would be lack of connection and chemistry

 I was meeting a guy ( not the one my thread was about) and i wouldnt say he looked the best but not the worst. I met him a number of times. And we would talk for a couple of hours even over food/go cinema etc etc..eventually  i realised I didnt feel the chemistry it was more of a friend vibe. It could be the  same with the op. 

Which is ENTIRELY based on looks and nothing else. This has hit a nerve with me because I have hard this before and honestly its to me one of the most flowery politically correct things people say instead of simply not cutting to the chase and saying well "I don't find you attractive".

I far appreciate people who simply cut me off on date one than waste my time with 2, 3, 4 dates and then throw me away, another reason I am sort of glad I don't get past date 2 at most. See I don't mind being thrown away its far preferable to the above where the poor guys gets his hopes up, put his best foot forward and then lady decided "well he might be a friend" that's also a lot of nonsense,  how many of these men have your actually remained in contact with? My guess is zero.

 

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, miranda561 said:

It might not even be how u look. Not that  i can tell how you look ( im sure you're ok looks wise). It could be the way you come across on the dates. Next time why not get some feedback from them. Tell them to be real with you.

As for my friend he always says its about how he looks but even just from the offset and his messages that ive read..i literally start cringing. He has no game. Although he thinks he does. But if he gets rejected he thinks oh its because  im ugly etc etc. But  i can guarantee even if he was a ten out of ten, with the way he communicates/what he says, it would be offputting for anyone.

Fair enough  if i wanted an attractive  persons attention i can get it but when i give advice i just see it as if i can give averageishh(looks) ppl a chance ×)why cant he. 

Ive seen  good looking guys with average women and vice versa. Its not something that's never happened in the history of the world

 

Do you not realise what a huge confidence boost comes from mutual attraction?

Women don't provide feedback, as I am told many times here "its not that place and they don't owe you feedback" so lets just forget about that text book theory idea. Which I admit is great in theory. If this did happen maybe I would learn something of value but it doesn't so its just me doing something different each time in the hope maybe that variation works.

So he gets treated with disdain because he has no game? I don't have game either I go on a date to try take an interest and get to know someone, make them smile, make them laugh, that's hardly any sort of guy but sure I know the manipulative charm offensive embellishment game you mean, it works hugely well for people I know, women buy into all that fake charm like a tourist buys into a local delicacy on the streets of Bangkok. (FYI the delicacy being food).

What he says, is he polite, does he have manners? What is so wrong with what he says?

Sure, give people a chance its a great thing, I done that countless times and never ever has it been worth it, I haven't suddenly felt more attracted to the person in minute 50 as I was at minute 20.

The bold part ignores the fact an attractive women has a choice and average looking men seldom do. Good looking men have the same choice, it really boils down to ones perceived value and unfortunately that value is seldom defined as how nice a personality one has but rather on physical attributes. That's ok, its how the word seems to mostly, I can complain but I cant change it, I can believe it does work like that but that doesn't change the fact I have seen it work exactly like that. Maybe I am wrong , maybe the pretty lady does give average guys a chance but again this has not been the case on Tinder (I deleted the app because I got tired of matching with the same wholly unattractive people).

Lastly a good belief can sometimes make up for a poor reality. I can walk around believing people like the good part of me and ignore my looks, I can walk around ignoring the fact they see a shy sometimes awkward guy, I can walk around feeling good about myself, I can walk around not caring about dating or pretending to, I can walk around believing I can date the people I want even of the reality says otherwise.

Yes, that's the power of belief. Its a hard world out there, harder at dating for people and is it really worth it? I don't know? Is it really? Is it really worth compromising so much, ignoring so much and deluding oneself so much to hopefully attract the attention of maybe someone who will find one attractive? Equally is it worth never finding mutually attraction? Do you force yourself to be attracted? Do you buy into first impressions? Do you believe the hype of love? Do you buy into the traditional date, do you question why? Are the rewards worth it?

 

[Weezy1973]

49 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Um. There is never a maybe, the ones I like simply don't want to see me again and the ones I don't like I don't want to see again. What is wrong with this? To me you completely contradict yourself in this post.

Again it would appear I must give them a chance but the people I like should not give me a chance? There is never maybe, its very definitive, probably the one thing I do like about dates, there is no real grey area.

@ZA Dater you’re again trying to defend your way of thinking even though it’s not giving you any success. I’ve had success dating, including online dating, as have many who have given you advice, but you still refuse to bend your beliefs.

So, the only thing I can surmise is that you don’t actually want to succeed. That the fear of being vulnerable, letting someone actually get close and getting close, and the possible hurt that could stem from that, is making you self-sabotage. 
 

FYI, if you’re doing online date in a way that you can be successful, there should be a fair bet of gray area. Why? Because you can’t know someone well enough on a first date to know either way most of the time. 
 

Here’s one of the things I did that led to success - instead of just having a list of my ideal superficial traits, instead I had in my mind a set of minimum requirements. For example, although my preferred body type for a woman is one that’s slim, my minimum requirement was that she not be overweight. That opened up a number of more women than there would have been if I was just looking for slim women.

 

And again, stop worrying about what the women you’re going on dates with are doing or thinking. Whether or not someone  decides to give you a chance is their business, not yours. 

[Weezy1973]

35 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Do you not realise what a huge confidence boost comes from mutual attraction?

 

How would you know this if you’ve never experienced mutual attraction? I have experienced it; trust me it doesn’t give you the confidence you think it does. Confidence comes from within. Nothing to do with whether someone is attracted to you or not.

[miranda561]

56 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which is ENTIRELY based on looks and nothing else. This has hit a nerve with me because I have hard this before and honestly its to me one of the most flowery politically correct things people say instead of simply not cutting to the chase and saying well "I don't find you attractive".

I far appreciate people who simply cut me off on date one than waste my time with 2, 3, 4 dates and then throw me away, another reason I am sort of glad I don't get past date 2 at most. See I don't mind being thrown away its far preferable to the above where the poor guys gets his hopes up, put his best foot forward and then lady decided "well he might be a friend" that's also a lot of nonsense,  how many of these men have your actually remained in contact with? My guess is zero.

 

I knew how he looked from the get go though. Its not like it took me 6 dates or whatever to think oh i dont find him attractive. 

I just wasn't  feeling it or any vibes. If i was that wouldn't have anything to do with what the guy looked like. There was the odd attractive guy i did meet in the past and i wasnt interested as again i didnt feel anything. 

I would happily be friends with a couple of the guys  i friendzoned. The one i said no to, everytime  i would be friendly with him, he would revert back to trying to get me to go out with him again. In the end i thought its best to stop contact. He just clearly couldnt be just friends with me. 

[miranda561]

44 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Do you not realise what a huge confidence boost comes from mutual attraction?

Women don't provide feedback, as I am told many times here "its not that place and they don't owe you feedback" so lets just forget about that text book theory idea. Which I admit is great in theory. If this did happen maybe I would learn something of value but it doesn't so its just me doing something different each time in the hope maybe that variation works.

So he gets treated with disdain because he has no game? I don't have game either I go on a date to try take an interest and get to know someone, make them smile, make them laugh, that's hardly any sort of guy but sure I know the manipulative charm offensive embellishment game you mean, it works hugely well for people I know, women buy into all that fake charm like a tourist buys into a local delicacy on the streets of Bangkok. (FYI the delicacy being food).

What he says, is he polite, does he have manners? What is so wrong with what he says?

Sure, give people a chance its a great thing, I done that countless times and never ever has it been worth it, I haven't suddenly felt more attracted to the person in minute 50 as I was at minute 20.

The bold part ignores the fact an attractive women has a choice and average looking men seldom do. Good looking men have the same choice, it really boils down to ones perceived value and unfortunately that value is seldom defined as how nice a personality one has but rather on physical attributes. That's ok, its how the word seems to mostly, I can complain but I cant change it, I can believe it does work like that but that doesn't change the fact I have seen it work exactly like that. Maybe I am wrong , maybe the pretty lady does give average guys a chance but again this has not been the case on Tinder (I deleted the app because I got tired of matching with the same wholly unattractive people).

Lastly a good belief can sometimes make up for a poor reality. I can walk around believing people like the good part of me and ignore my looks, I can walk around ignoring the fact they see a shy sometimes awkward guy, I can walk around feeling good about myself, I can walk around not caring about dating or pretending to, I can walk around believing I can date the people I want even of the reality says otherwise.

Yes, that's the power of belief. Its a hard world out there, harder at dating for people and is it really worth it? I don't know? Is it really? Is it really worth compromising so much, ignoring so much and deluding oneself so much to hopefully attract the attention of maybe someone who will find one attractive? Equally is it worth never finding mutually attraction? Do you force yourself to be attracted? Do you buy into first impressions? Do you believe the hype of love? Do you buy into the traditional date, do you question why? Are the rewards worth it?

 

Yeh they dont owe you anything but they could be pleasant enough to give you some if you asked. Im sure i have in the past. Nothing  wrong with it. 

He just  can't  seem to play it cool. He comes across so needy if im honest. As if hes begging for their attention. Its definitely cringeworthy. 

 

Try a different app... dont give in so easily. It only takes one. Just one person. I've seen hundreds of profiles by now. Online apps can be strenuous but you just have  to hold on to hope.