do you just eventually give up?

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

How would you know this if you’ve never experienced mutual attraction? I have experienced it; trust me it doesn’t give you the confidence you think it does. Confidence comes from within. Nothing to do with whether someone is attracted to you or not.

Because believe me walking around with someone who looks amazing does boost your confidence and I have done that before. So yes its one part of the scenario but its still a good feeling.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, miranda561 said:

Yeh they dont owe you anything but they could be pleasant enough to give you some if you asked. Im sure i have in the past. Nothing  wrong with it. 

He just  can't  seem to play it cool. He comes across so needy if im honest. As if hes begging for their attention. Its definitely cringeworthy. 

 

Try a different app... dont give in so easily. It only takes one. Just one person. I've seen hundreds of profiles by now. Online apps can be strenuous but you just have  to hold on to hope. 

Let me give you a very recent example of why I have the attitude I do.

Bumble this time.

So I get two matches last week, one is a single mom, over weight, all she wants to do is invite me to her place (we are locked down here) for "fun". Zero appeal to me at all, we chat and see if there is any common ground, nothing really and all she wants is fun.

Second match, great pictures, enjoys horse riding, outdoors, works as a vet. Sporty, like to keep fit. We chat for a few hours, very much on the same page in terms of what we like, like me she doesn't party much or drink lots. Likes road trips, family has a farm, the banter was good. It was just nice to match with someone I found attractive for once and could have a conversation with. Day two, no communication, I don't communicate, day three some communication, day four very little communication, I ask how she is. Day 5 and the match is gone. SO we went for a good conversation to unmatched?

So once again what I am left with, the same terrible matches, who

1: The conversation just isn't thee

2: The physical attraction isn't there either.

Honestly tell me that over a period of yeas this would not irritate you? EVERY single time I match with someone I find attractive one of two things happens

1: unmatched even after a good conversation

2: I actually meet them and never hear from them again.

As a logical person I deduce the simple fact: they found someone better.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Because believe me walking around with someone who looks amazing does boost your confidence and I have done that before. So yes its one part of the scenario but its still a good feeling.

As you know, the boost is fleeting. Your confidence isn’t any higher now than before you walked around with that person . It didn’t raise your confidence.

 

And you’re still not answering the question of why you’re arguing to fail? It’s like you’re determined to keep failing on purpose, and when people come on here showing the flaws in your beliefs which lead to a lack of success, you fight it. Why? 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Weezy1973

[Weezy1973]

52 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Let me give you a very recent example of why I have the attitude I do.

Bumble this time.

So I get two matches last week, one is a single mom, over weight, all she wants to do is invite me to her place (we are locked down here) for "fun". Zero appeal to me at all, we chat and see if there is any common ground, nothing really and all she wants is fun.

Second match, great pictures, enjoys horse riding, outdoors, works as a vet. Sporty, like to keep fit. We chat for a few hours, very much on the same page in terms of what we like, like me she doesn't party much or drink lots. Likes road trips, family has a farm, the banter was good. It was just nice to match with someone I found attractive for once and could have a conversation with. Day two, no communication, I don't communicate, day three some communication, day four very little communication, I ask how she is. Day 5 and the match is gone. SO we went for a good conversation to unmatched?

So once again what I am left with, the same terrible matches, who

1: The conversation just isn't thee

2: The physical attraction isn't there either.

Honestly tell me that over a period of yeas this would not irritate you? EVERY single time I match with someone I find attractive one of two things happens

1: unmatched even after a good conversation

2: I actually meet them and never hear from them again.

As a logical person I deduce the simple fact: they found someone better.

A few points 

 

1. What you’re describing is very typical of online dating. This happens all the time. 
 

2. In previous posts you’ve claimed that you never match with people you find attractive. Here you did, and I believe with Bumble, she had to be the one to initiate. So no longer can you claim that you never match with people you find attractive.

 

3. Your statement that you concluded she found someone better is another problematic belief. She may have found someone that was a better match for her, but she didn’t find an objectively better human being. Or an emergency came up and she stopped communication. Or an ex popped back into the picture that she still had feelings for. Or her internet went down. 
 

Online dating is filled with false starts. Your conclusion that it’s because they found someone better (or that you weren’t good enough) is but another thought / belief that contributes to your lack of success. 

[ZA Dater]

9 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

As you know, the boost is fleeting. Your confidence isn’t any higher now than before you walked around with that person . It didn’t raise your confidence.

 

And you’re still not answering the question of why you’re arguing to fail? It’s like you’re determined to keep failing on purpose, and when people come on here showing the flaws in your beliefs which lead to a lack of success, you fight it. Why? 

If my beliefs are so wrong why are they so wrong? My beliefs come from experience and observation neither of which can be "wrong". I am still waiting for someone to tell the DEFINATIVE way to attract attractive people, no MAYBE , no grey areas. Why has this not happened, because its not POSSIBLE. See the thing is nothing is universal what works for Peter might not work for Paul and what works for Lucy might not work for Sarah.

It might have been a fleeting experience but believe me it was better than matching over and over and over again with people I don't find attractive.

 

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

A few points 

 

1. What you’re describing is very typical of online dating. This happens all the time. 
 

2. In previous posts you’ve claimed that you never match with people you find attractive. Here you did, and I believe with Bumble, she had to be the one to initiate. So no longer can you claim that you never match with people you find attractive.

 

3. Your statement that you concluded she found someone better is another problematic belief. She may have found someone that was a better match for her, but she didn’t find an objectively better human being. Or an emergency came up and she stopped communication. Or an ex popped back into the picture that she still had feelings for. Or her internet went down. 
 

Online dating is filled with false starts. Your conclusion that it’s because they found someone better (or that you weren’t good enough) is but another thought / belief that contributes to your lack of success. 

Frankly OLD is a lot of rubbish. Lets be honest about that. OH WOW.....one attractive match in the last three years on Bumble. Amazing what a great success rate that is. I'll go and dance around like an Egyptian in joy as the new moon rises.

Lack of success is due to lack of attraction.

[MeadowFlower]

Is that all you value. Attractiveness? (rhetorical question). 

Edited May 11, 2020 by MeadowFlower

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, MeadowFlower said:

Is that all you value. Attractiveness? (rhetorical question). 

I shouldn't answer but I will. Its very clear to me that's is all the Dating world values.

Tinder: pictures

Bumbler: pictures

OK: pictures

I just put up a ridiculous Tinder profile with an albino squirrel as a profile picture, I wont get any matches off that but if I put a picture of a model, well suddenly I will have 20 matches with maybe 75% being attractive people themselves. That's the thing I guess, you can have a great personality, you can have a great mind, you can be generous you can be caring but ultimately if you aren't good looking well, it all counts for nothing really. Society created this, created ALL the value being on looks and nothing else.

So while I practice it, I don't do anything anyone else does not do. Don't get me wrong I am not looking for stick figure models, just people who can go for a run, perhaps go for a hike, go for a swim. People who can be active.

 

[Weezy1973]

13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am still waiting for someone to tell the DEFINATIVE way to attract attractive people, no MAYBE , no grey areas. Why has this not happened, because its not POSSIBLE.

 

There is no definitive way to attract people. As has been explained, and you agreed with, everybody’s different. 
 

As has also been explained, the people that start as “maybes” can become more attractive if there’s a connection. 
 

You can fight this if you want to keep failing. And since you continue to fight it, does that mean you want to keep failing?

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I shouldn't answer but I will. Its very clear to me that's is all the Dating world values.

Tinder: pictures

Bumbler: pictures

OK: pictures

 

Tinder, Bumble and OK Cupid is not the dating world. Online dating is not the dating world. Your belief that online dating = the dating world is another belief contributing to your lack of success.

I understand why you believe that, as it’s your primary or only experience with dating. But it’s wrong. Which by the way is an example of how a belief can be wrong, even if it’s based on experience.

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

As has also been explained, the people that start as “maybes” can become more attractive if there’s a connection. 

Ok how do I become a maybe for them then? Please tell me why I wasn't a maybe for the last one, or the political lady, or the horse riding instructor? Or are you once again saying "well you don't really like her but you know maybe she isn't that bad, maybe she will be nicer after 5 dates"

There are no maybes with me, I either like them or I don't which is irrelevant really because none of them like me anyway hahaha

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Tinder, Bumble and OK Cupid is not the dating world. Online dating is not the dating world. Your belief that online dating = the dating world is another belief contributing to your lack of success.

I understand why you believe that, as it’s your primary or only experience with dating. But it’s wrong. Which by the way is an example of how a belief can be wrong, even if it’s based on experience.

Sure, then tell me how exactly dating differs from online dating, I'd be very interested to know because being wrong I'd say

Guy sees girl in a room, thinks she is attractive, guy then has to determine if she is single, problem one, girl is with friend, shy guy reckons not worth it and just sits drinking his hot chocolate.

Same lady sees same guy on OLD doesn't match him. Do you really think the outcome would be any different in person? I suspect not barring for the fact the lady would need to actually openly reject the guy.

Then again I am usually wrong so.

[basil67]

What you are describing here is a cold approach with an intention to date.  Cold approaches have a very high failure rate, so yes, you’ll likely crash and burn.  

I’ve always been the kind to meet someone through friends or at an event which is social.   I met first significant BF at our high school musical.  I was working on backstage, he was working on sound.  We just started chatting randomly backstage and found that we got on well.  Met first husband at a work Xmas party which he attended with a mutual friend.   Husband number two was a set-up done by mutual friends.  I had no idea that I was walking into a set up, but we got talking...and are still together.   

The difference between you and I, according to your example, is that you need to figure out if someone is single before you will speak to them.  Whereas I will talk to anybody, male or female, young or old, single or not.   I go to a party and get talking with a random stranger in the kitchen.  I sometimes talk with people in lifts and in queues.  In the bus.   The thing is, I talk to people because I like talking to people - not because I have a goal of dating.   But being willing to talk with people opens up all kinds of avenues and the potential of meeting a partner is always there.   And yes, some people are rubbish conversationalists and I don’t hang around talking with them.  But some are brilliant and brighten my whole day.  

When did you last attend a big birthday bash for someone who’s kind of your age?  Or a work social function?  

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

What you are describing here is a cold approach with an intention to date.  Cold approaches have a very high failure rate, so yes, you’ll likely crash and burn.  

I’ve always been the kind to meet someone through friends or at an event which is social.   I met first significant BF at our high school musical.  I was working on backstage, he was working on sound.  We just started chatting randomly backstage and found that we got on well.  Met first husband at a work Xmas party which he attended with a mutual friend.   Husband number two was a set-up done by mutual friends.  I had no idea that I was walking into a set up, but we got talking...and are still together.   

The difference between you and I, according to your example, is that you need to figure out if someone is single before you will speak to them.  Whereas I will talk to anybody, male or female, young or old, single or not.   I go to a party and get talking with a random stranger in the kitchen.  I sometimes talk with people in lifts and in queues.  In the bus.   The thing is, I talk to people because I like talking to people - not because I have a goal of dating.   But being willing to talk with people opens up all kinds of avenues and the potential of meeting a partner is always there.   And yes, some people are rubbish conversationalists and I don’t hang around talking with them.  But some are brilliant and brighten my whole day.  

When did you last attend a big birthday bash for someone who’s kind of your age?  Or a work social function?  

Nobody in my office is single and its a small office but for what its worth: December last year. As for a birthday, probably 10 years ago if not longer.

I get what you say, K is a very good example of that, met her at an event when she arrived with another friends wife. Five years later we still get along really well but I don't see her introducing me to other people, she has no obligation to do so.

Sure, random conversation, I can have them with cashiers, car guards but I am hardly likely to socialise with those people. Heck I even tried it with the doctor I went to see on Saturday.

Believe it or not I do/did sort of believe in your idea of meeting people and then going to friends and then going to whatever. However in the world I live in its very rare, very, very rare to find. Looking back a friend did try to help me out a few times but I am just such a misfit it never really works at all and by this I mean also not fun or maybe even interesting.

Look there are also some genuinely nice people who do sort of take an interest in me but they are few and far between, the last of which was very attractive but we simply were not compatible at all, she liked trance parties and the goings on there and I don't enjoy trance parties for a myriad of reasons. However she was always warm and friendly to me, which is a lot more than I get from most people. Am I warm and friendly, probably not even if I do try.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

I’ve always been the kind to meet someone through friends or at an event which is social.   I met first significant BF at our high school musical.  I was working on backstage, he was working on sound.  We just started chatting randomly backstage and found that we got on well.  Met first husband at a work Xmas party which he attended with a mutual friend.  

This is probably the one regret that comes back to bite me often, opportunities way back when like this which I didn't make more of. There were some recent ones but my inherent logic always seems to kick in which is to say

1: Ok what can I offer her

2: I have no friends which is immediately a red flag

3: I have no past ex's, again another red flag

4: I have no experience and am awkward, again another red flag.

So as soon as I have run through this list, looked at someone who is pretty and has a nice personality I then pretty much write myself off because its less painful to simply not bother than try and we get rejected anyway and every time I have tried I have been rejected.

There is little sense I can actually win and in my mind they will always find something wrong with me.

 

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

This is probably the one regret that comes back to bite me often, opportunities way back when like this which I didn't make more of. There were some recent ones but my inherent logic always seems to kick in which is to say

1: Ok what can I offer her

2: I have no friends which is immediately a red flag

3: I have no past ex's, again another red flag

4: I have no experience and am awkward, again another red flag.

So as soon as I have run through this list, looked at someone who is pretty and has a nice personality I then pretty much write myself off because its less painful to simply not bother than try and we get rejected anyway and every time I have tried I have been rejected.

There is little sense I can actually win and in my mind they will always find something wrong with me.

 

You admitted you are not warm or friendly. Try being warmer and friendlier. Women want someone who exudes that sort of energy, more than someone robot like and cold. 

I would need to see the way you communicate with women both online and the real world in order to determine that its not your approaches which need improving. As opposed to it being down to your looks again. Personality goes such a long long way. I had a friend in the past she was like this guy isnt one who a lot of people would say is attractive but ..there is something about him which attracts  me to him. Well just an example where it wasnt his looks!!!!!

 

Before i read what the above poster had said... i was going to suggest being more active socially, going to events and the like. You may make some actual male friends too who can help you maybe, who you can learn from, who can introduce you to women. Maybe don't have an intention to date, just go out there and meet people and have fun ( if for nothing else to at least enrich your life), along the way you may find someone. You never know

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

This is probably the one regret that comes back to bite me often, opportunities way back when like this which I didn't make more of. There were some recent ones but my inherent logic always seems to kick in which is to say

1: Ok what can I offer her

2: I have no friends which is immediately a red flag

3: I have no past ex's, again another red flag

4: I have no experience and am awkward, again another red flag.

So as soon as I have run through this list, looked at someone who is pretty and has a nice personality I then pretty much write myself off because its less painful to simply not bother than try and we get rejected anyway and every time I have tried I have been rejected.

There is little sense I can actually win and in my mind they will always find something wrong with me.

 

Change that mindset. Be confident in yourself and believe you have a lot to offer.

Otherwise it will become a self fulfilling prophecy

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

You admitted you are not warm or friendly. Try being warmer and friendlier. Women want someone who exudes that sort of energy, more than someone robot like and cold. 

I would need to see the way you communicate with women both online and the real world in order to determine that its not your approaches which need improving. As opposed to it being down to your looks again. Personality goes such a long long way. I had a friend in the past she was like this guy isnt one who a lot of people would say is attractive but ..there is something about him which attracts  me to him. Well just an example where it wasnt his looks!!!!!

Before i read what the above poster had said... i was going to suggest being more active socially, going to events and the like. You may make some actual male friends too who can help you maybe, who yiu can learn from, who can introduce you to women. 

I am not really a warm person, nor it has be said are most of my family and extended family. I try to be friendly but I guess I still come off as cold and clinical.

I tried going to events within my hobby but really, there was nobody there of interest, again its pears and apples mentality. If you don't drink and party or go to church, well them you simply don't fit in. In South Africa its a social norm to have a beer or wine, if you don't partake people tend to look at you very oddly indeed.

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Change that mindset. Be confident in yourself and believe you have a lot to offer.

Otherwise it will become a self fulfilling prophecy

Its been properly fulfilled at least I can say that! The fact is I don't have much to offer when I look at the competition and yes I do look at the attributes which generally seem to have ladies completely charmed and they aren't any of the following ones

1: Honesty

2: Shyness

3: Awkward

4: Inexperienced

5: Dedicated

6: Loyal

7: Motivated and ambitious

8: Serious

9: Not fun

I have learnt that many of these do however appeal to single mothers but they don't no appeal to 25-32yo range I am looking at of single high value people. Again I ask you to walk two feet in my shoes and sure one should be confident or try to be but when I look around I don't see lots of guys like me succeeding at dating and if they do its almost always with people I don't find remotely appealing and I get the sense that she arrived and well she liked him and nobody else ever had so he sort of went with it. I'd rather clobber myself over the head than ever adopt that mentality.

This bumble match was quite positive, probably the best match I have had in months and well here I was hoping for a different outcome...silly me.

Ok another good example is this one, so I like cars and there is a coffee shop at a car dealer, few of mainly me and older guys, guys same sort of age hang out (pre lockdown) and for a while there was a nice assistant there, I was always friendly, tried in my own way to be charming, made sure I looked good. There was common ground and this went on for a few weeks, she sort of played along. I eventually plucked up some sort of courage and then found out she was going out with another guy, again the opposite of me. That's the thing there is no winning situation for me, no scenario where I actually win so each time I just put in less effort because I know the outcome. The political lady, that should have been a win, instead it was a total loss.

All I am doing over and over again is loosing, there isn't any sign of any sort of win. So its not like I am sitting back and doing nothing and haven't been for 20 years but I ALWAYS loose to the SAME sort of guys. No matter what my approach is its a complete loss.

 

[miranda561]

17 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its been properly fulfilled at least I can say that! The fact is I don't have much to offer when I look at the competition and yes I do look at the attributes which generally seem to have ladies completely charmed and they aren't any of the following ones

1: Honesty

2: Shyness

3: Awkward

4: Inexperienced

5: Dedicated

6: Loyal

7: Motivated and ambitious

8: Serious

9: Not fun

I have learnt that many of these do however appeal to single mothers but they don't no appeal to 25-32yo range I am looking at of single high value people. Again I ask you to walk two feet in my shoes and sure one should be confident or try to be but when I look around I don't see lots of guys like me succeeding at dating and if they do its almost always with people I don't find remotely appealing and I get the sense that she arrived and well she liked him and nobody else ever had so he sort of went with it. I'd rather clobber myself over the head than ever adopt that mentality.

This bumble match was quite positive, probably the best match I have had in months and well here I was hoping for a different outcome...silly me.

Ok another good example is this one, so I like cars and there is a coffee shop at a car dealer, few of mainly me and older guys, guys same sort of age hang out (pre lockdown) and for a while there was a nice assistant there, I was always friendly, tried in my own way to be charming, made sure I looked good. There was common ground and this went on for a few weeks, she sort of played along. I eventually plucked up some sort of courage and then found out she was going out with another guy, again the opposite of me. That's the thing there is no winning situation for me, no scenario where I actually win so each time I just put in less effort because I know the outcome. The political lady, that should have been a win, instead it was a total loss.

All I am doing over and over again is loosing, there isn't any sign of any sort of win. So its not like I am sitting back and doing nothing and haven't been for 20 years but I ALWAYS loose to the SAME sort of guys. No matter what my approach is its a complete loss.

 

What happened with the political lady.

And what kind of guys do they go for. Do you live in a small town then. As opposed to a city. In a city theres obviously countless options. 

Who wouldnt want those traits in someone, loyalty/motivated ambitious.

But women do like a fun personality too. Doesnt have to be over the top, just a sense of humour, likes to engage in fun activities 

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok how do I become a maybe for them then? Please tell me why I wasn't a maybe for the last one, or the political lady, or the horse riding instructor? Or are you once again saying "well you don't really like her but you know maybe she isn't that bad, maybe she will be nicer after 5 dates"

There are no maybes with me, I either like them or I don't which is irrelevant really because none of them like me anyway hahaha

If you matched or went on a date with someone, you were at minimum a maybe. Maybe’s can, and most often will turn to No. But Yes’s (I.e. I’m definitely attracted to that person) will also most often turn to No. That’s the nature of dating strangers - the vast majority of the time two strangers won’t be compatible. If that’s found out on date one, or after a few months, the result is the same.

 

The only reason you don’t have any maybes or gray areas or what I call neutral (I.e not attracted but not repulsed) is due to your lack of experience. Your only means of dating is online dating and that skews your perception about what dating actually is. You’re stuck thinking it’s all about looks and attraction. And it’s not. 
 

Dating is the method of getting to know people to see if they would be compatible to form a relationship with. It’s a process. And if you’re dating strangers, such as through online dating, most of the time the people you meet won’t be compatible. 
 

And that’s what you’re experiencing. When you describe the dates you go on and online exchanges it all sounds very normal as far as online dating experiences go. In your head you think you’ve been incredibly unfortunate, but it’s really quite normal.

 

The expectations for dating strangers is that you won’t be compatible with almost all of them. The rare case is one where you meet someone compatible. There are ways to improve your chances of course, but it’s still rare.

 

FYI:  I met my wife through OLD. It can be effective if you do it properly. Took me awhile to figure it out, and I made many of the mistakes a lot of people make, but once I changed what I was doing, it literally took about 2 months to meet my now wife.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, miranda561 said:

What happened with the political lady.

And what kind of guys do they go for. Do you live in a small town then. As opposed to a city. In a city theres obviously countless options. 

Who wouldnt want those traits in someone, loyalty/motivated ambitious.

But women do like a fun personality too. Doesnt have to be over the top, just a sense of humour, likes to engage in fun activities 

No I live in a city but the options are actually fairly few for probably reasons of my own doing and because I refuse to drink which is a big no here because almost all social activities revolve around drinking to some degree.

We had a good date I thought and well she said 'well I don't know if I want to date but we can definitely be friends" well yes that's pretty much "no chemistry" rubbish all over again, never heard another word from her. So again my viewpoint became ingrained.

It really doesn't matter what I do the results are always the same.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

If you matched or went on a date with someone, you were at minimum a maybe. Maybe’s can, and most often will turn to No. But Yes’s (I.e. I’m definitely attracted to that person) will also most often turn to No. That’s the nature of dating strangers - the vast majority of the time two strangers won’t be compatible. If that’s found out on date one, or after a few months, the result is the same.

 

The only reason you don’t have any maybes or gray areas or what I call neutral (I.e not attracted but not repulsed) is due to your lack of experience. Your only means of dating is online dating and that skews your perception about what dating actually is. You’re stuck thinking it’s all about looks and attraction. And it’s not. 
 

Dating is the method of getting to know people to see if they would be compatible to form a relationship with. It’s a process. And if you’re dating strangers, such as through online dating, most of the time the people you meet won’t be compatible. 
 

And that’s what you’re experiencing. When you describe the dates you go on and online exchanges it all sounds very normal as far as online dating experiences go. In your head you think you’ve been incredibly unfortunate, but it’s really quite normal.

 

The expectations for dating strangers is that you won’t be compatible with almost all of them. The rare case is one where you meet someone compatible. There are ways to improve your chances of course, but it’s still rare.

 

FYI:  I met my wife through OLD. It can be effective if you do it properly. Took me awhile to figure it out, and I made many of the mistakes a lot of people make, but once I changed what I was doing, it literally took about 2 months to meet my now wife.

Sure all of that is logical and quite probably true, thank you for admitting lack of experience is a problem.

I am glad OLD does work for someone.

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

No I live in a city but the options are actually fairly few for probably reasons of my own doing and because I refuse to drink which is a big no here because almost all social activities revolve around drinking to some degree.

We had a good date I thought and well she said 'well I don't know if I want to date but we can definitely be friends" well yes that's pretty much "no chemistry" rubbish all over again, never heard another word from her. So again my viewpoint became ingrained.

It really doesn't matter what I do the results are always the same.

Whats the number of women youve been on a date with.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its been properly fulfilled at least I can say that! The fact is I don't have much to offer when I look at the competition and yes I do look at the attributes which generally seem to have ladies completely charmed and they aren't any of the following ones

1: Honesty

2: Shyness

3: Awkward

4: Inexperienced

5: Dedicated

6: Loyal

7: Motivated and ambitious

8: Serious

9: Not fun

A lot of these are highly valued, but they must be part of a package.   Change it to

• 1: Honesty (within reason. If you don't like my new dress, you don't need to tell me)
• 2: Easy to talk with
• 3: Relaxed
• 4: Experienced
• 5: Dedicated
• 6: Loyal
• 7: Motivated and ambitious
• 8: Can laugh at yourself
• 9: Fun

And then you've got a whole package.

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have learnt that many of these do however appeal to single mothers but they don't no appeal to 25-32yo range I am looking at of single high value people. Again I ask you to walk two feet in my shoes and sure one should be confident....

I would not be walking in your shoes because I never tried punching above my weight.  

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok another good example is this one, so I like cars and there is a coffee shop at a car dealer, few of mainly me and older guys, guys same sort of age hang out (pre lockdown) and for a while there was a nice assistant there, I was always friendly, tried in my own way to be charming, made sure I looked good. There was common ground and this went on for a few weeks, she sort of played along. I eventually plucked up some sort of courage and then found out she was going out with another guy, again the opposite of me. That's the thing there is no winning situation for me, no scenario where I actually win so each time I just put in less effort because I know the outcome. The political lady, that should have been a win, instead it was a total loss.

You have just taken a two positives and turned them into negatives.

1. Instead of being glad to have made a nice new acquaintance, you're calling it a fail because she's got a boyfriend.

2. You connected well with the political lady.  You gained dating experience.  You know that there are people around who you can connect with.  No, a second date didn't happen, but you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.