do you just eventually give up?

[elaine567]

I don't think the need to find people with no baggage and no kids is that unusual in single people.
I guess there may be many single 36yo women  who want to avoid single Dads and guys with troublesome exes and a long history of failed relationships.
That is no problem each to his own, but to adopt a superior approach as if a no relationship history is better than those who have at least tried to make a go of it, is nonsense.

[Emilie Jolie]

3 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Those are his opinions😂 as harsh as they seem. I don't think he will change them any time soon

I can't help it, I just can't switch off my irremediable 'glass half-full' side, I'm praying that in his misguided frustration, his words sometimes go further than what he intends to say. I also totally get that loneliness and a permanent state of self-pity can turn anyone into an embittered, jaded, intolerant person.

Not entirely sure why I'm defending this, but it's also not like he's the only one on these boards (less so in real life, I have noticed) who prefers never married no kids younger women to date. Which is fine, obviously. It's just that his own 'baggage' (I really hate this word) is a different kind of heavy and he's at the back of a very long queue.

 

 

[miranda561]

2 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I can't help it, I just can't switch off my irremediable 'glass half-full' side, I'm praying that in his misguided frustration, his words sometimes go further than what he intends to say. I also totally get that loneliness and a permanent state of self-pity can turn anyone into an embittered, jaded, intolerant person.

Not entirely sure why I'm defending this, but it's also not like he's the only one on these boards (less so in real life, I have noticed) who prefers never married no kids younger women to date. Which is fine, obviously. It's just that his own 'baggage' (I really hate this word) is a different kind of heavy and he's at the back of a very long queue.

 

 

I think hes probably frustrated being single for 36 years. I guess not a lot has worked out for him in that arena. 

He should probably refrain from telling prospective  dates about his inexperience. Because at that age they will wonder whats up  and why its gone so wrong

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah which is absolutely fantastic, I cannot wait for all these wonderful matches, the real picks, I am falling over my own feet in excitement.

 

Jesus. How chivalrous. ^

Who...is...good...enough?

You're waiting for a fashion model who had put off dating until after she would have figured her career was underway, hence she'd never had a date but in a freak mountain climbing accident in the Italian Alps, she fell down a snow vent and was frozen exactly as she was - one day past her 18th birthday (hence, legal). Upon being discovered by a very ugly guy who could never have been her type, she was mailed in a refrigerated FedEx plane to New Zealand where she was carefully defrosted and brought out of her coma by an ugly male doctor who wasn't her type. As this ugly doctor leaned over to cry out, "Helge?" (She's Swedish, but luckily, speaks English) "Helge, can you hear me?" his cell phone fell out of his lab coat and opened up his dating app. Sleepily Helge stretched her lithe, supple arms and picked up the phone only to discover our OP's face. "He is just my type," she gasped in shock.

Is it too much to ask? That right now there is a beautiful of-age virgin never before been on a date model who is into guys who have OP's characteristics...and only those characteristics, and has recently been thawed and so far has luckily been in contact with only hideous guys, until she accidentally is exposed only to the OP, who will then become her first and only boyfriend?

#nevergiveup

Edited May 13, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Content]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:02 PM, Trail Blazer said:

I'm not going to sugar coat anything because I think you're pretty self-aware and understand the reality of it all.  I've followed all of your threads and they all arrive at the same conclusion; your standards are impossibly high.

You know that you have high standards.  You admit to having high standards.  I don't blame you for having high standards.  

It's not exactly a noble trait to have low standards and to be happy to settle for, not so much less than one deserves, but rather, just high-quality in general.  It will do both parties a disservice in the long run.

However, impossibly high standards is where I'd put your standards at.  I'm sure you feel the same, because, you're seemingly faced with an impossible conundrum of having to lower your standards to a level where you're no longer attracted to the women physically.

I'm sure you understand how Sexual Marketplace Value works.  It's a golden rule for OLD, and, by it's most basic premise, looks are key.  Not too many variables outside of initial attraction will sway the ledger either way.  

Remembering the many hurdles of first getting them to swipe right, then (at least on Bumble) strike up a conversation with you initially, before you can finally try to win them over by presenting aspects of yourself to them.

Take this vet for example.  She sounded like a quality person and one who you saw as ticking all the boxes.

One thing you probably aren't unique with is being able to identify a catch.  The problem there is, that so do most other men.  If she's a catch to you, then she's more than likely going to be a catch to most other men. 

This is reality is even more pronounced when you factor in your very high standards.

So, you were half way there with the vet.  She swiped right on you, which indicated at the very least, a moderate level of physical attraction.

The next component of the puzzle was her messaging you, as to not allow the 24-hour window to expire.  That's fantastic!

You even had a conversation with her for a number of days, before it fizzled and she unmatched you.

You were absolutely right.  She found someone better.  Someone with whom she could avail her SMV to 100 percent of its capacity.

Think of how many other men, other attractive men, who also are more confident and lack personality quirks that you have overtly presented on here to us. 

Did the vet find a man whom she found more physically attractive than you?  Probably.  Did she find a man whose personality/charm or whatever, was more alluring than what you presented?  Also, probably.

Where does that leave you?

It leaves you with one of two choices.  You either find a way to lower your standards.  Or, you give up and walk.

Just personally, I think you need to do just that.  Give the OLD away for a while and go and work on yourself.

It is my opinion that if you can find a way to derive happiness from within, you'll perhaps not have such impossibly high standards when looking for a partner. 

It's as if there's this huge void inside of you, which you're fully cognizant of, which, due to the sheer size of this void, could only be filled by someone who's as close to perfect as humanly possible.  

Just remember; you cannot make anyone else happy if you yourself are not first happy.  Perhaps women can see this, and their biggest concern with you in not what you look like, or even the quirky personality. 

It could well be, that they question the value proposition that you'd bring to their lives.  If they themselves are happy, fulfilled people, they need to feel like you're going to add to the happiness, not subtract from it.

Best of luck, bro! 

I know you're trying... just, maybe, a little too hard!

*shrugs sholders*

 

 

I don’t subscribe to only going after who you perceive are your looks match..Ive dated tons of women all over the looks spectrum including a lot of women  people thought were  way more attractive then me. 

what he should do is work to make himself more attractive so he can get women he finds attractive.

I don’t mean physically attractive i mean make himself more atrractive in his head because that’s where the root of his dating problems stem from. His mindset not his looks or the looks of women he’s going for are what his issue is.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Content

[Trail Blazer]

16 minutes ago, Content said:

I don’t subscribe to only going after who you perceive are your looks match..Ive dated tons of women all over the looks spectrum including a lot of women  people thought were  way more attractive then me. 

what he should do is work to make himself more attractive so he can get women he finds attractive.

I don’t mean physically attractive i mean make himself more atrractive in his head because that’s where the root of his dating problems stem from. His mindset not his looks or the looks of women he’s going for are what his issue is.

 

Neither have I.  I've dated both below and above my looks match.  I believe you should only go after those you find attractive.  ZA also subscribes to this; the problem being, for one reason or another, the women he finds attractive generally don't see it the same way.

I agree with the rest of your post.  ZA needs to work on himself a lot more and he may well find that he'll have more success with women.  Still, let's not fool anyone by trying to downplay the importance that looks play in the OLD sphere.  It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Trail Blazer]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think a lot of my problem is also perspective. The good dates I have had have been good and I enjoyed them so I am always looking for dates like that which I guess is fine but I sometimes cannot escape the feeling that basically one has that one date to all the selling in order to get date 2, which is difficult.

In terms of looks its not all about slim but this is mostly because the people who seem to "want" me are ALWAYS overweight, so after a while I just started wondering what the heck I am doing wrong if that's all I can attract.

An interesting point here, my cute squirrel picture on Tinder got me marginally better matches than my own pictures did! Not really what I want but at least some respite from continually bad matches.

OLD has never been enjoyable for me because its like climbing in the ring and having no idea how to box, I get smacked to the ground and the only way I can make it tolerable to is to keep reminding myself I am a good person because if I took rejection to heart well I probably wouldn't be typing this.

I wouldn't know what to work on, I am lot more confident now than I was 3 years ago but I am still not going to go an engage in random conversation. I am more at ease with general life than I was then, more resigned to actually never finding anyone, that's unfortunately a realistic possibility.

For me a lot of what irks me about this whole process is it would seem its never a case of mutual attraction. That's all I am really looking for, go on a few dates with me, don't like me that's ok at least I would have felt that, which I guess doesn't make a lot of sense.

What are you looking for?  What's your end goal?  Going on good dates, or finding a long-lasting relationship?

It sounds like you're addicted to the rush and excitement of an amazing date.  A good date, in my opinions, is never a good date if it doesn't lead to a second date.

I've had more second dates than I can remember.  Over half of my first dates ended in second dates.  Sometimes it took three or four dates to really know if I saw potential for a future with that person.

Sorry to say, but if you move on to a second or even third date, you aren't guaranteed to find it as great as the first date - nor is she!  So, you might feel like you'll be making strides, only to find that you're back to square one again.

Hence, my question.  What is your end goal?  

For mine, I'm always happier being in a loving relationship.  I've done the FWB/ONS thing and I found that the novelty wore off quickly and it became ultimately unfulfilling.

Ironically, my current relationship did come about when I least expected it to.  

I was ready to give OLD away for a while, as I too, had gotten a little tired of it.  After two dates with two different girls in one week, in which they both cancelled on me at the last minute, I thought, "F... this $h!t"

The last date I was willing to go on was the last girl I ever went on a date on, as now I call her my girlfriend.

In some way, the lack of anticipation and the casual nature in which I approached the date meant that, at least in my own head, I thought "whatever happens, happens.  What will be, will be..."

I'm not sure whether you come off as "trying too hard" or what.  It really is hard to know where you're going wrong.  I'd definitely try and change up your pics frequently.  If your squirrel photo is anything to go by (which it is), women love men who like animals.

If you're going to have another crack at OLD, review your profile.  Put a bit of info in your bio, but not too much as for it to be an information overload.  Show that you're serious without being desperate.

Just always remember, if it's starting to get you down, WALK!  You can always re-install the app at any point when your head is in a better place to derive value from being on it.

[Content]

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

Neither have I.  I've dated both below and above my looks match.  I believe you should only go after those you find attractive.  ZA also subscribes to this; the problem being, for one reason or another, the women he finds attractive generally don't see it the same way.

I agree with the rest of your post.  ZA needs to work on himself a lot more and he may well find that he'll have more success with women.  Still, let's not fool anyone by trying to downplay the importance that looks play in the OLD sphere.  It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

Oh old yes I agree it’s shallow  that’s why it’s important to try to meet women in person either in your social circle or if there are none The  then  join meetups or  groups where women are.

 

 

 

 

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, Content said:

Oh old yes I agree it’s shallow  that’s why it’s important to try to meet women in person either in your social circle or if there are none The  then  join meetups or  groups where women are.

 

 

 

 

Sure.  However, I feel as though, from what ZA has shared with us about his lack of social skills, he's probably more likely to find success on OLD.

If you're going to nail a great catch IRL, then you need to have good social skills.  A man who may be left swiped by a girl on Bumble may very well be able to strike up a conversation, and subsequently score a date, with that same girl IRL.  But he certainly won't be able to achieve that with sub-par social skills.

I don't necessarily think OLD is shallow.  It's simply very limited in the scope it provides members to sell themselves.  What else can one go on, besides looks?  Considering most people wouldn't bother reading another member's bio, there really is nothing else to go besides looks.

 

 

[Emilie Jolie]

7 hours ago, miranda561 said:

He should probably refrain from telling prospective  dates about his inexperience.

Unless you own it.

If the avalanche of dealbreakers and requirements is anything to go by, it seems like it is actually a choice on some level, which is a good thing.

ZA, I feel like your hyper self-awareness is doing you no favours. You've made your dating life about judgement (you judging them, you worrying about how they are judging you) when it's just about getting to know someone with no pressure. Your lack of experience is not written in your face, nobody can actually tell. 

 There are women out there out who like to take the lead and will find your inexperience a positive thing, but it's in the way you package it and the timing of it. A first date is an encounter with someone new, not Mount Everest, you talk to them as you would a female friend (or a client if that helps) , there is nothing special that you need to do or say or reveal. You just go with the flow with zero expectations. An attractive woman is a human being with her own insecurities, worries and imperfections, not some magical, supernatural, perfect angel. They too get broken up with, have unsuccessful relationships, etc. Nobody is above anybody else. 

 

 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Unless you own it.

If the avalanche of dealbreakers and requirements is anything to go by, it seems like it is actually a choice on some level, which is a good thing.

ZA, I feel like your hyper self-awareness is doing you no favours. You've made your dating life about judgement (you judging them, you worrying about how they are judging you) when it's just about getting to know someone with no pressure. Your lack of experience is not written in your face, nobody can actually tell. 

 There are women out there out who like to take the lead and will find your inexperience a positive thing, but it's in the way you package it and the timing of it. A first date is an encounter with someone new, not Mount Everest, you talk to them as you would a female friend (or a client if that helps) , there is nothing special that you need to do or say or reveal. You just go with the flow with zero expectations. An attractive woman is a human being with her own insecurities, worries and imperfections, not some magical, supernatural, perfect angel. They too get broken up with, have unsuccessful relationships, etc. Nobody is above anybody else. 

 

 

I agree, the requirements only came about after meeting lots of people and deciding those were attributes I liked, I didn't think them up one morning, they happened over a number of years.

That's exactly the approach I take on dates just pretend I am talking to anyone, co worker, client etc. However when I have mentioned this style on this very forum I am told it is wrong. Looks I can turn a date into an sort of q and a fairly easily but those are not nice dates the conversation needs to flow, I'll open up most of the time but what tends to grate me is when people offer up no opinions and seemingly don't really have much to say.

People can tell awkwardness and unfortunately on some level I always seem to reveal it.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Sure.  However, I feel as though, from what ZA has shared with us about his lack of social skills, he's probably more likely to find success on OLD.

If you're going to nail a great catch IRL, then you need to have good social skills.  A man who may be left swiped by a girl on Bumble may very well be able to strike up a conversation, and subsequently score a date, with that same girl IRL.  But he certainly won't be able to achieve that with sub-par social skills.

I don't necessarily think OLD is shallow.  It's simply very limited in the scope it provides members to sell themselves.  What else can one go on, besides looks?  Considering most people wouldn't bother reading another member's bio, there really is nothing else to go besides looks.

 

 

The more I think about posts like this and your prior post the more I question OLD. The bold is exactly the problem there is nothing to really sell oneself on barring pictures. Which is probably why I have such a low success rate with it because

A: I don't attract people I like

B: Those rare people I do, it falls apart on the date because they have their own expectations and I don't meet them.

I can have a conversation but there needs to be something to talk about, when introduced to people I can sit and find something to talk about but the unfortunate thing is I am never the pick of that particular group, there is always a guy they are more interested in hence why my views were formed and why I see the whole thing as inherently a competition. I'd love to be judged on my own merits but I know that doesn't happen.

I don't believe OLD has done me many favours besides be the only way I can meet people but that isn't saying much really.

I probably come across as very serious and intense which doesn't really help matters much.

Reading the posts here is giving me food for thought.

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, miranda561 said:

I think hes probably frustrated being single for 36 years. I guess not a lot has worked out for him in that arena. 

He should probably refrain from telling prospective  dates about his inexperience. Because at that age they will wonder whats up  and why its gone so wrong

What do you suggest I tell them when "when was your last relationship" this seems to be a favourite question on dates. People get a sense with me very quickly because I am pretty straight to the point and the BIG weakness here is I cant flirt so dates really are just for the most part conversations.

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I don't think the need to find people with no baggage and no kids is that unusual in single people.
I guess there may be many single 36yo women  who want to avoid single Dads and guys with troublesome exes and a long history of failed relationships.
That is no problem each to his own, but to adopt a superior approach as if a no relationship history is better than those who have at least tried to make a go of it, is nonsense.

Who said anything about superior? I just frankly don't find the relationship history of people very interesting to have to sit around and discuss it and unfortunately every single time I have met up with a singe mother this has formed the vast majority of the conversation or the fact the father is a bad father and so it goes on and on. I cant judge so why tell me all of this, that's my point of view.

Frankly most people do better than met a dating, not shy to admit or wear that label. Its probably at a point where I cannot fix this issue now either so its about finding small victories somewhere.

I cant really decry what people want, nor can any of us really change that. When you think about it so much of our perspective is based on experience and things we are told. I know there are people out there who don't judge people like me but I also know its a lot harder for me to win over people being in the situation I am. Do I believe I can, well partly but pure logic also tells me that at this point, my issues are near impossible to explain away in any really believable way.

Maybe I am lucky I haven't had relationship drama.

[Emilie Jolie]

42 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

People can tell awkwardness and unfortunately on some level I always seem to reveal it.

Is it awkwardness or is it contempt and impatience that they can tell? Or both? You would get a pass for awkwardness on its own - they are plenty of quirky people who are sweet and good-natured with it.

But if you allow yourself to be blunt to the point of rudeness - say, about how you feel about single mothers for instance, even when your date isn't one,  or if you make it obvious you find your dates uninteresting - which I find a really strange concept personally, there's always something to learn about talking to someone - then yeah, that along with the awkwardness will push them over the edge.

Not sure awkwardness or lack of experience are you biggest issues. You need to work on your people skills as a matter of priority. Big time.   

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Who said anything about superior?

You didn't have to, your sarcasm gave you away.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

A: I don't attract people I like

B: Those rare people I do, it falls apart on the date because they have their own expectations and I don't meet them.

This doesn’t make sense, but does speak to your negative mindset. I don’t attract people I like (which I’m assuming means that you find attractive) is an absolute. But you have matched and gone on dates with women that you find attractive. So quit saying you don’t! A glass half full attitude serves everybody well.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Is it awkwardness or is it contempt and impatience that they can tell? Or both? You would get a pass for awkwardness on its own - they are plenty of quirky people who are sweet and good-natured with it.

But if you allow yourself to be blunt to the point of rudeness - say, about how you feel about single mothers for instance, even when your date isn't one,  or if you make it obvious you find your dates uninteresting - which I find a really strange concept personally, there's always something to learn about talking to someone - then yeah, that along with the awkwardness will push them over the edge.

Not sure awkwardness or lack of experience are you biggest issues. You need to work on your people skills as a matter of priority. Big time.   

 

If they were so bad I doubt I could work in the often people centric industry I work in, yes I am know to be to the point but when you are forever chasing time that's bad a bad thing really. I get along quite well with co workers, many from very different backgrounds than me but we have lunches, laughs and debates so honestly I don't think my people skills are that bad. I am fairy good at public speaking too and the club I run, I interact with lots of different people so again I don't think I could do that effectively if I had bad people skills.

However. Perhaps dates do pick up a certain degree of bitterness among the seriousness. For example I don't recall laughing often on dates, I do sometimes but not often. Again people want light hearted and that's cool, no problem I am just never likely to be that person, I live a very stressed 24/7 lifestyle where I am often balancing the seemingly impossible, trying to run faster, do more, accomplish more so maybe people don't see a space for themselves in that either and truthfully I am not sure there is space for someone either. But a lot of that is also constructed as a way of keeping busy, keeping going so I don't dwell on the negative too much but rather try chase some goal.

That's why I say there is often a disconnect between me and dates, whereby we simply live lives which are too dissimilar BUT again I wouldn't mind compromising and going out of my comfort zone if I really liked the person. Going out of my comfort zone to find a person doesn't make a lot of sense to me because that version of me will be an even more shy and awkward one.

What the consensus seems to be that I must date down, give people a chance who I don't find instantly attractive, give them a chance but my question is at what point do I get given a chance? What do I need to do to earn a chance?

Then there is the ever present theme of me liking an idea but will I really like the reality? Unfortunately for me I have some really good examples of good relationships so on some level I do know it can be good but my perceive point of view is you need to have high value in some way or other to accomplish that.

I like to believe friendliness begets friendliness which is what I generally try on dated BUT why do they never ask anything about me? Again I am stuck on this theme another poster raised, is OLD totally flawed? Is it only good for hook-ups (I cant even get an attractive hook-up)? Lot of what I read here suggests OLD is totally flawed.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This doesn’t make sense, but does speak to your negative mindset. I don’t attract people I like (which I’m assuming means that you find attractive) is an absolute. But you have matched and gone on dates with women that you find attractive. So quit saying you don’t! A glass half full attitude serves everybody well.

5 in 5 years is a very poor ratio......

[Content]

9 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Sure.  However, I feel as though, from what ZA has shared with us about his lack of social skills, he's probably more likely to find success on OLD.

If you're going to nail a great catch IRL, then you need to have good social skills.  A man who may be left swiped by a girl on Bumble may very well be able to strike up a conversation, and subsequently score a date, with that same girl IRL.  But he certainly won't be able to achieve that with sub-par social skills.

I don't necessarily think OLD is shallow.  It's simply very limited in the scope it provides members to sell themselves.  What else can one go on, besides looks?  Considering most people wouldn't bother reading another member's bio, there really is nothing else to go besides looks.

 

 

I don’t necessarily agree that you need great social skills if you meet someone in irl.

 Obviously you can’t be socially inept but for someone like me for example who takes time to open up to people and isn’t the most outgoing to strangers right away when I meet a women in a group or meetup or whatever  it gives me time to show my personality little by little and grow on her. 

Where with  old unless she likes your picture or something about your profile you’re not gonna be able to play the long game and grow on her she’s gonna move on pretty quickly with so many options.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Content

[Emilie Jolie]

23 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

If they were so bad I doubt I could work in the often people centric industry I work in, yes I am know to be to the point but when you are forever chasing time that's bad a bad thing really. I get along quite well with co workers, many from very different backgrounds than me but we have lunches, laughs and debates so honestly I don't think my people skills are that bad. I am fairy good at public speaking too and the club I run, I interact with lots of different people so again I don't think I could do that effectively if I had bad people skills.

However. Perhaps dates do pick up a certain degree of bitterness among the seriousness. For example I don't recall laughing often on dates, I do sometimes but not often. Again people want light hearted and that's cool, no problem I am just never likely to be that person, I live a very stressed 24/7 lifestyle where I am often balancing the seemingly impossible, trying to run faster, do more, accomplish more so maybe people don't see a space for themselves in that either and truthfully I am not sure there is space for someone either. But a lot of that is also constructed as a way of keeping busy, keeping going so I don't dwell on the negative too much but rather try chase some goal.

That's why I say there is often a disconnect between me and dates, whereby we simply live lives which are too dissimilar BUT again I wouldn't mind compromising and going out of my comfort zone if I really liked the person. Going out of my comfort zone to find a person doesn't make a lot of sense to me because that version of me will be an even more shy and awkward one.

What the consensus seems to be that I must date down, give people a chance who I don't find instantly attractive, give them a chance but my question is at what point do I get given a chance? What do I need to do to earn a chance?

Then there is the ever present theme of me liking an idea but will I really like the reality? Unfortunately for me I have some really good examples of good relationships so on some level I do know it can be good but my perceive point of view is you need to have high value in some way or other to accomplish that.

I like to believe friendliness begets friendliness which is what I generally try on dated BUT why do they never ask anything about me? Again I am stuck on this theme another poster raised, is OLD totally flawed? Is it only good for hook-ups (I cant even get an attractive hook-up)? Lot of what I read here suggests OLD is totally flawed.

I thought you said you didn't really have a social life and now you're saying you go out to lunch with colleagues? I

Anyway, I don't think you should 'date down', but I don't see human relationships on a hierarchical scale anyway - more like a circle the size of which you can adjust depending on who you meet. For instance, I used to have a 'type' before I met my SO, who is quite different to this type, so my type is now my SO. The main ingredients still need to be there, whatever your criteria are; you just need to widen your search a little. If you're not comfortable with that idea (your prerogative), you need to bide your time on OLD and be super patient, or hope things fall into place naturally by living your normal life and staying open to potential opportunities.

I've never done OLD so can't help on that front. It's obviously not flawed since a lot of successful RLs come out of it, but I don't believe it is suited to all temperaments. People who have been in LTRs a while or who like being single won't see the point of OLD, people who have met all their partners organically (that's my case) also don't get how OLD work. When I was last single, doing OLD didn't even cross my mind; I don't like the concept of it, I don't like the idea of meeting a lot of men just to find the right one (I don't have that sort of patience), I'm never attracted to a photo, and people can say all sorts of stuff that make them look good on their blurb (or whatever it's called) that don't always match in the flesh. But you need to do what's right for you. If OLD isn't working for you as well as you'd like, and you're feeling the bitterness is taking over a little bit, take a breather, reassess, put dating on the backburner and live your life as you normally would. Bitterness is really super easy to pick on because it's so hard to hide, so I agree, these women likely get the vibe you'd rather be somewhere else. But basically stop judging others and others may stop judging you; and even when they don't, stop judging them (and yourself) anyway.

 

[an0nym0us123]

Maybe people like the op, myself and others should just throw in the towel. It seems we are a million miles from forming a relationship with someone we like.

 

 

[miranda561]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I agree, the requirements only came about after meeting lots of people and deciding those were attributes I liked, I didn't think them up one morning, they happened over a number of years.

That's exactly the approach I take on dates just pretend I am talking to anyone, co worker, client etc. However when I have mentioned this style on this very forum I am told it is wrong. Looks I can turn a date into an sort of q and a fairly easily but those are not nice dates the conversation needs to flow, I'll open up most of the time but what tends to grate me is when people offer up no opinions and seemingly don't really have much to say.

People can tell awkwardness and unfortunately on some level I always seem to reveal it.

I knew you probably had some form of awkwardness which is why at the beginning  i said its the way they  perceive you on dates. Not necessarily your looks which they already knew of coming into it and agreeing to meet you 

Edited May 14, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, Content said:

I don’t necessarily agree that you need great social skills if you meet someone in irl.

 Obviously you can’t be socially inept but for someone like me for example who takes time to open up to people and isn’t the most outgoing to strangers right away when I meet a women in a group or meetup or whatever  it gives me time to show my personality little by little and grow on her. 

Where with  old unless she likes your picture or something about your profile you’re not gonna be able to play the long game and grow on her she’s gonna move on pretty quickly with so many options.

Im similar  to you in that i don't open up straight away. And i do find with OLD if you dont they're not necessarily going to stick around for that. Given the number of actual desperate women/men around who are dying to get into relationships.

 

 

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

If they were so bad I doubt I could work in the often people centric industry I work in, yes I am know to be to the point but when you are forever chasing time that's bad a bad thing really. I get along quite well with co workers, many from very different backgrounds than me but we have lunches, laughs and debates so honestly I don't think my people skills are that bad. I am fairy good at public speaking too and the club I run, I interact with lots of different people so again I don't think I could do that effectively if I had bad people skills.

However. Perhaps dates do pick up a certain degree of bitterness among the seriousness. For example I don't recall laughing often on dates, I do sometimes but not often. Again people want light hearted and that's cool, no problem I am just never likely to be that person, I live a very stressed 24/7 lifestyle where I am often balancing the seemingly impossible, trying to run faster, do more, accomplish more so maybe people don't see a space for themselves in that either and truthfully I am not sure there is space for someone either. But a lot of that is also constructed as a way of keeping busy, keeping going so I don't dwell on the negative too much but rather try chase some goal.

That's why I say there is often a disconnect between me and dates, whereby we simply live lives which are too dissimilar BUT again I wouldn't mind compromising and going out of my comfort zone if I really liked the person. Going out of my comfort zone to find a person doesn't make a lot of sense to me because that version of me will be an even more shy and awkward one.

What the consensus seems to be that I must date down, give people a chance who I don't find instantly attractive, give them a chance but my question is at what point do I get given a chance? What do I need to do to earn a chance?

Then there is the ever present theme of me liking an idea but will I really like the reality? Unfortunately for me I have some really good examples of good relationships so on some level I do know it can be good but my perceive point of view is you need to have high value in some way or other to accomplish that.

I like to believe friendliness begets friendliness which is what I generally try on dated BUT why do they never ask anything about me? Again I am stuck on this theme another poster raised, is OLD totally flawed? Is it only good for hook-ups (I cant even get an attractive hook-up)? Lot of what I read here suggests OLD is totally flawed.

Would you consider yourself a bit nerdy