do you just eventually give up?

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, Ollie180 said:

For sure! But the fact is if he’s funny enough, lighthearted enough - you probably wouldn’t be drifting away!!

Theres a difference between telling someone the ins and outs of the paint they used on their ceiling vs the guy that tells you about his diy disaster of dropping the paint pot on himself and having pastel pink hair for days!

Its like all the comedians on the tele who can have you in fits of laughter over the contents of a bedside drawer!!

Yeh everything you said is right  but then that same guy had the nerve to call me boring later on. Maybe because  i wasn't  responding to anything he was saying since his boring self was putting me to sleep 😂

Edited May 14, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I usually try this tactic but mostly end up feeling I am talking to a white wall because I get noting back from the person at all. I can wax lyrical about cars supercars I have driven, articles I have written, my book I am busy writing, my interest in politics and history, the club I run but eventually just gave up because it never meant anything to them so when I go on a date I make sure I just talk about them because then the conversation does actually flow.

Again I think your "OLD puts apples with pears" point of view might be why this doesn't work.

Try complimenting  them endlessly and just talking and showing concern for them 😂. cant resist flattery

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I struggle with that sort of humour, sure I can create it but it only goes so far and that isn't very far at all. One thing I have learnt from people over the year is some embellishment can go a long way sometimes and to some degree that does work.

The inherent problem is the things that I find cool really don't work on dates, for example a few months ago I got to drive a rare Ferrari convertible on a road trip, sun setting, roof down, open road with fantastic scenery. Try bring that up on a date and I can talk very passionately about this but its also largely meaningless. I can talk about a charity event I arranged for an orphanage but again this is largely meaningless. Then I can go on about interesting wine farms I have visited, some of my favourite places but again this never really works, or I can talk passionately about current affairs and well I learnt not to do this because what I end up doing exposing apathy. I love the date with the political lady because we could actually talk about all of these things and she could relate to some extent.

Erm all those things  sound so cool!!!!! Why wouldnt  they be interested. 🤔

I got another idea. How about instead of going on a boring first date where you guys just chat. Why not make it more exciting by doing something  fun

[Ollie180]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't think there is anyway at all to make those things appealing to a mass audience

That’s just not true mate! Like it’s just not!

Yes - amazing in-depth chats come when you share an understanding for something BUT you can have general chat about anything! Those things you listed are REALLY GREAT examples of things to talk about......but you have to tailor/ pitch the story to your audience!

 

If you were one of my boys, I’d like role play it with you! Have you ever tried it, like ‘fake dates’ with a mate and told them to be totally honest?

If you honestly, want to self reflect... it might be an interesting learning process

[Ollie180]

16 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Yeh everything you said is right  but then that same guy had the nerve to call me boring later on. Maybe because  i wasn't  responding to anything he was saying since his boring self was putting me to sleep 😂

And then he walked away probably thinking ‘why can’t I find a girl interested in my interests’

This is the vicious circle of it!!

[Emilie Jolie]

37 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I try, really I do but so long without any real form of success has made me judgemental and in some respects quite desperate for some attention by anyone I do find vaguely appealing. As for finding people I gel with, I have found them but its never reciprocated.

Its enormously irritating to try and try and try get nowhere really, especially when some dates do seem quite promising and then to be just ghosted and yet people I don't really like are so easy to find relatively speaking. I'd love someone to tell me how to best adapt my thinking to deal with......

I hear you, really I do. This situation is not cool for you, I totally empathise. It must feel like one big vicious circle. You could do with a supportive, trustworthy person in your life to confide in without judgement, one who really knows what to do or say or how to guide you. If not a good friend / mentor, the obvious answer is a sex therapist (not a psychologist or a counsellor, mind, just a sex therapist or a clinic sexologist), but I completely get how the mere thought of talking to a specialist about your intimate life might be daunting, especially if you are normally super guarded. I don't know what the health care system is like where you live or how easy it is to get an appointment, but it seems like you have a comfortable lifestyle so this is something you could treat yourself with. The thing I would say to you is that you are not an 'odd one out'; many people are where you're at too, so please don't think it's just you. 

Yes, the thought of it is cringe-worthy and embarrassing, but I really believe this may be worth it.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[miranda561]

13 minutes ago, Ollie180 said:

And then he walked away probably thinking ‘why can’t I find a girl interested in my interests’

This is the vicious circle of it!!

🤔🤔 i was polite though. He probably had no idea i was uninterested in what he was saying.

We are on and off with contact. Always have been

The last we spoke he said he didnt think i was boring anymore 😂. After speaking to me a bit more.

So technically not walked yet

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so my appearance doesn't get me matches and my personality doesn't get me second dates, such a winning combination this, I am struggling to contain my excitement. For what its worth I cant say you are wrong but unfortunately I am who I am

But you say you joke around with colleagues and can have good conversations quite easily. So it’s not those social skills. A dry sense of humor is  fine and will be appreciated by women who like a dry sense of humor. Which is what you’re looking for.

 

Honestly, you’re stuck in a high school mentality - she’s pretty so that‘s who I want. You need to get over only focusing on looks and trying to find a connection. And before you come back with your common retort - No! This doesn’t mean you should date people you’re not attracted to!

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, miranda561 said:

🤔🤔 i was polite though. He probably had no idea i was uninterested in what he was saying.

We are on and off with contact. Always have been

The last we spoke he said he didnt think i was boring anymore 😂. After speaking to me a bit more.

So technically not walked yet

This is so strange...I don't know the whole story as I haven't read backward on this one, but why would someone even call someone else boring...much less keep contact and then take it back later? It sounds sour grape-y to me. Like "you're boring anyway...oh wait...wanna talk?" People can be odd.

[miranda561]

14 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

This is so strange...I don't know the whole story as I haven't read backward on this one, but why would someone even call someone else boring...much less keep contact and then take it back later? It sounds sour grape-y to me. Like "you're boring anyway...oh wait...wanna talk?" People can be odd.

Yeh i dont  get that. 🤔 im just hoping upon hope hes not another narcissist  had enough of those freaks. 

You know whats weird..he was always the one dying to talk to me...and then when we eventually spoke he was proper happy..when i said i had to  go (trying to cut the conversation) ..he was dying for me to stay on the phone. Literally was like "stay".

Couple of convos later and hes like yeh i thought you were boring..and i was like right. But then straight away he goes i dont now though..youre cool. 🤔 i dont get why he said i was that..but his actions were the opposite. Which is why im just like i hope he isn't  negging me or whatever that  weird term is. 😂 like how a narcissist would 😳😳😳😳😳

 

[miranda561]

19 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

This is so strange...I don't know the whole story as I haven't read backward on this one, but why would someone even call someone else boring...much less keep contact and then take it back later? It sounds sour grape-y to me. Like "you're boring anyway...oh wait...wanna talk?" People can be odd.

If you wanna read my original  post on my thread about it go ahead..maybe you'll have an insight into him. 

[Trail Blazer]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:17 AM, elaine567 said:

I don't think the need to find people with no baggage and no kids is that unusual in single people.
I guess there may be many single 36yo women  who want to avoid single Dads and guys with troublesome exes and a long history of failed relationships.
That is no problem each to his own, but to adopt a superior approach as if a no relationship history is better than those who have at least tried to make a go of it, is nonsense.

I agree with everything here.  I had so many women tell me that I wasn't what they were looking for early in the piece after informing them that I have two children with my ex-wife!  I fit perfectly into that category of "single dad, troublesome ex, with a (not-so-much) history of failed relationships."

I spoke with my girlfriend recently about why she, too, didn't run a mile when I informed her that I had kids with a somewhat difficult ex, when she herself didn't have kids and has no intention of having them.

Her own experiences, growing up with her Mom and stepdad (the latter of whom she hated), but having such a strong relationship with her late father, meant that she viewed single Dads in a very different light to most.

I know that she is the exception, not the rule.  Generally, the attractive, mid-30s women, with no kids have so many options that they really have no need to compromise.  I know that I'm just lucky that whilst my girlfriend had many options, including (presumably) many attractive guys who didn't have kids, or an extensive and messy dating history, that my specific baggage didn't come across as too much of a compromise.

On the flipside, she has told me that she's highly suspicious of guys who have little to no dating history.  She once joked that guys with extensive dating history were at least sought after at one point.

Whilst my girlfriend's view doesn't bode well for OP's specific situation, I still believe that the majority of women out there would take a guy with no kids, but less dating experience and fewer ex-partners, than one, like myself, who comes with kids, a challenging ex-wife and a string of recent flings and short-term relationships.

The right girl is out there for OP, I'm sure.  OP just probably needs to tweak a few things.  But, perhaps, take a little hiatus in the meantime and re-join at a later date with a fresh mindset?

 

[Trail Blazer]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so my appearance doesn't get me matches and my personality doesn't get me second dates, such a winning combination this, I am struggling to contain my excitement. For what its worth I cant say you are wrong but unfortunately I am who I am

Dude, you just said you matched with the vet, who presumably was someone you also found attractive.  You may not be getting right-swiped by every stunner, but clearly, you are getting matches with some attractive women.

Your problem isn't your looks.  Looks is a spectrum, and clearly your position on that spectrum isn't at the level of severe.  If you're getting matches with attractive people, then looks are NOT your immediate issue.

You need to work on yourself with regards to how you engage with women.  There needs to be a fine balance reached between showing interest in what she likes, whilst also displaying to her that you are your own man whom she can respect.

Women need to feel valued, and they also need to feel like you can bring value to their lives.  Understanding what makes that individual woman tick, is key.  Hint: making women laugh and feel comfortable around you is a universally accepted winner for attracting and retaining women.

When I'm on a date I am careful to not talk too much about myself.  I engage in a warm manner, showing interest in wanting to learn more about her.  I always show interest in what she's saying, even if I don't find it interesting on its own merits.

I don't think I've ever been on a date where I haven't at least identified one aspect about her that I can relate to.  Where I talk about myself, is the after I've identified something of mutual interest.  I usually share a story, or some funny experience that relates to the things she's told me about herself.

Women need to know that they're being listened to and understood.  If you can demonstrate that you're caring and attentive to what they're saying, and that you can relate to them in some way, as well as make them laugh in the process, you'll do all right.  Women want to see you demonstrate a level of empathy, whilst having the ability to make them laugh.

With life being so hectic and stressful, it's very masculine and attractive to women if they know that they will be listened to and understood at the times they need.  Women don't want a man to fix all their problems - women want someone who'll listen to them and make them feel more comfortable when they're struggling with their problems.

None of this matters when you're choosing whether to left or right swipe.  However, you're getting some matches with women you find attractive, so clearly, your pressing needs are to identify how you can retain the matches you get and not worry so much about how to get more matches.

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, miranda561 said:

Yeh i dont  get that. 🤔 im just hoping upon hope hes not another narcissist  had enough of those freaks. 

You know whats weird..he was always the one dying to talk to me...and then when we eventually spoke he was proper happy..when i said i had to  go (trying to cut the conversation) ..he was dying for me to stay on the phone. Literally was like "stay".

Couple of convos later and hes like yeh i thought you were boring..and i was like right. But then straight away he goes i dont now though..youre cool. 🤔 i dont get why he said i was that..but his actions were the opposite. Which is why im just like i hope he isn't  negging me or whatever that  weird term is. 😂 like how a narcissist would 😳😳😳😳😳

 

Oh... Okay, now...that would fit with the sour grapes thing, if that's the answer. "I didn't want to talk to you anyway," basically. 

I wouldn't be too quick with the narcissism thing, though. It seems like it's the DX du jour, you know? I think people, as any creatures, are self-centered by nature simply as a survivalist tool, and as with many psychiatrict diagnoses, it's the extent/severity, plus impact on daily life, relationships and work (I think) that create an actual DX. Not all selfish people are narcissists. Some are just selfish wads. Actually, truth be told, a lot of us are selfish wads every once in a while.

And there's also the thing of, we might lash out or at least try to make ourselves feel better if we're rejected. That only makes sense and again I'd hesitate to put a diagnosis on it. People aren't robots. We don't always behave admirably.

JMO...

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, miranda561 said:

Try complimenting  them endlessly and just talking and showing concern for them 😂. cant resist flattery

Oh, I have been down this road before

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Dude, you just said you matched with the vet, who presumably was someone you also found attractive.  You may not be getting right-swiped by every stunner, but clearly, you are getting matches with some attractive women.

Your problem isn't your looks.  Looks is a spectrum, and clearly your position on that spectrum isn't at the level of severe.  If you're getting matches with attractive people, then looks are NOT your immediate issue.

You need to work on yourself with regards to how you engage with women.  There needs to be a fine balance reached between showing interest in what she likes, whilst also displaying to her that you are your own man whom she can respect.

Women need to feel valued, and they also need to feel like you can bring value to their lives.  Understanding what makes that individual woman tick, is key.  Hint: making women laugh and feel comfortable around you is a universally accepted winner for attracting and retaining women.

When I'm on a date I am careful to not talk too much about myself.  I engage in a warm manner, showing interest in wanting to learn more about her.  I always show interest in what she's saying, even if I don't find it interesting on its own merits.

I don't think I've ever been on a date where I haven't at least identified one aspect about her that I can relate to.  Where I talk about myself, is the after I've identified something of mutual interest.  I usually share a story, or some funny experience that relates to the things she's told me about herself.

Women need to know that they're being listened to and understood.  If you can demonstrate that you're caring and attentive to what they're saying, and that you can relate to them in some way, as well as make them laugh in the process, you'll do all right.  Women want to see you demonstrate a level of empathy, whilst having the ability to make them laugh.

With life being so hectic and stressful, it's very masculine and attractive to women if they know that they will be listened to and understood at the times they need.  Women don't want a man to fix all their problems - women want someone who'll listen to them and make them feel more comfortable when they're struggling with their problems.

None of this matters when you're choosing whether to left or right swipe.  However, you're getting some matches with women you find attractive, so clearly, your pressing needs are to identify how you can retain the matches you get and not worry so much about how to get more matches.

The problem is VERY seldom do I match with attractive people, when I say very seldom I mean perhaps one or twice a year which isn't really that fantastic if you think about it....In terms of the bold I definitely did that on both of the dates which did seemingly go well last year.....so my assumption is they were simply looking for something different.

[elaine567]

14 hours ago, miranda561 said:

Try complimenting  them endlessly...

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Oh, I have been down this road before

You have to be able to choose your subject well before going down that track.
Some women hate flattery,
Some women will not accept compliments, they get embarrassed and uncomfortable. 
Some women hate the "dishonesty"
Some women will cringe at the cheesiness...

If you get a woman who will lap up every compliment and expect more, then maybe that is not a person you want to get seriously involved with....

[Weezy1973]

39 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You have to be able to choose your subject well before going down that track.
Some women hate flattery,
Some women will not accept compliments, they get embarrassed and uncomfortable. 
Some women hate the "dishonesty"
Some women will cringe at the cheesiness...

If you get a woman who will lap up every compliment and expect more, then maybe that is not a person you want to get seriously involved with....

This is why the best strategy is to just be yourself. You’re comfortable enough around colleagues and at work to have good conversations and make jokes. Do the same on your dates. This of course won’t guarantee that you’ll get second dates, but when you do, it will be because the woman is interested in YOU and not some act that you’re putting on.

[miranda561]

11 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Oh... Okay, now...that would fit with the sour grapes thing, if that's the answer. "I didn't want to talk to you anyway," basically. 

I wouldn't be too quick with the narcissism thing, though. It seems like it's the DX du jour, you know? I think people, as any creatures, are self-centered by nature simply as a survivalist tool, and as with many psychiatrict diagnoses, it's the extent/severity, plus impact on daily life, relationships and work (I think) that create an actual DX. Not all selfish people are narcissists. Some are just selfish wads. Actually, truth be told, a lot of us are selfish wads every once in a while.

And there's also the thing of, we might lash out or at least try to make ourselves feel better if we're rejected. That only makes sense and again I'd hesitate to put a diagnosis on it. People aren't robots. We don't always behave admirably.

JMO...

I know it is a widely used term. I was in the clutches  of one for a couple of years without even realising. So anyone who reminds me of that person , imm just like nooooo.

But i hope you're  right. And he is just a selfish wad 😂. 

There are other signs though..he will tend to bring other people down in conversation whilst bragging about himself, badmouthed his ex partner and played  the victim, withdrew contact from me and say (hes busy)....

Anyway i hope its nothing 😁 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is why the best strategy is to just be yourself. You’re comfortable enough around colleagues and at work to have good conversations and make jokes. Do the same on your dates. This of course won’t guarantee that you’ll get second dates, but when you do, it will be because the woman is interested in YOU and not some act that you’re putting on.

Very rare indeed. I think I have driven more supercars than I have had second dates.

 

[Emilie Jolie]

ZA, did you have any specific advice in mind you would like to be provided with?

There is a strong chance that you will already have been made aware of all the obvious tips, dos and donts, generic advice under the sun. You need something tailored to your own personal circumstances, which I for one will fully admit I cannot relate to, even though I fully empathise. You have acquired habits that are difficult to break, and impact your mental wellbeing; hopefully the various (sometimes conflicting, which is normal because we all have our own perspectives based on our experiences) bits of life experiences you are getting here are useful to you, but what would be even more helpful is personalised pointers from someone who can see you in action in the flesh (in my opinion).

[Weezy1973]

I think it would be helpful to @ZA Dater to set an actual goal. What is it you want? More specifically do you want a long term relationship or something more casual?

What you keep saying is you’re just looking for mutual attraction, but that’s not really a goal that will get you anywhere. I know you haven’t experienced that before, but I suspect you’re holding up mutual attraction as some holy place and it really isn’t. It’s like the cover of a novel. The cover might make you pick up the book, but the book can still be pretty terrible.

[ZA Dater]

32 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I think it would be helpful to @ZA Dater to set an actual goal. What is it you want? More specifically do you want a long term relationship or something more casual?

What you keep saying is you’re just looking for mutual attraction, but that’s not really a goal that will get you anywhere. I know you haven’t experienced that before, but I suspect you’re holding up mutual attraction as some holy place and it really isn’t. It’s like the cover of a novel. The cover might make you pick up the book, but the book can still be pretty terrible.

Well I am looking for some sort of companionship with someone I find attractive, it sounds stupid to say but I'd just like someone I find attractive to find me attractive. That's all I really want as a first step.

The thing I am learning here is there are different ways of looking at things, different approaches for when I do actually find that person, so yes the points of view offered here are very valuable to me so thanks to everyone.

I don't think dating utopia exists but I do know that it is possible to enjoy spending time with someone. I have done this faux dating thing for a few years, its a very complicated situation but spending time with her is always nice, be it a quick conversation, a coffee, helping her with advice, there is just something calming and nice about that, she wont ever date me but I get a lot out of spending time with her, for one I have to be at my best and she does check me if I am not! We relate well together and I can be completely open, honest about who I am, just simply be me.

That's the problem I have with dating I never really reach that point because there just isn't that relatable or for want of a better word connection. Maybe the fact this works so well for is negative because I am always trying to replicate it. On a friend level she does care, telling today the first person who wished me was her.

Maybe most wont understand this.

[MeadowFlower]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well I am looking for some sort of companionship with someone I find attractive, it sounds stupid to say but I'd just like someone I find attractive to find me attractive. That's all I really want as a first step.

Have you ever thought that maybe you'll find companionship with someone you don't find attractive.. But because of the companionship and friendship, you find yourself attracted to THEM. Who they ARE. 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, MeadowFlower said:

Have you ever thought that maybe you'll find companionship with someone you don't find attractive.. But because of the companionship and friendship, you find yourself attracted to THEM. Who they ARE. 

Not really interested in that because they would then want more and I wouldn't find them attractive in that way.