do you just eventually give up?

[Emilie Jolie]

Fair enough, ZA.

No one is a victim of who they are, because it's the one thing in life you have some control over, but I can see where this is going. I also think bringing your best self to all dates is actually common courtesy - not their fault you don't like them. Once you agree to spending some time with someone, the least you can do is be the best person you can be. What's the point in dragging your half-assed self to a date? Practising on someone you're not excited about is the ultimate in time waste, in my opinion anyway.

This is getting circular, since you don't seem open to bettering your social skills other than by asking strangers online for tips, with the obvious limitations this brings. You know what to do, you choose not to do it for reasons best known to yourself. It is what it is, I guess :).

Good luck on your next date!

Edited May 16, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Trail Blazer]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I need to explain something here. 99% of the matches I get are people I don't find attractive so no there isn't much reason for me to bring my A game and now there is even less reason to meet them at all. I needed over time to go on dates to learn things, try become less shy, get used to the idea of opening up to some degree to strangers.

Interesting.  Would you say that you've reached a point where you can simply turn your "A-game" on and off like a tap?  If the girl is attractive to you, nothing inhibits you from putting your best foot forward consistently in that situation?

[miranda561]

4 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Didn't read all of this, but I can relate to the OP. Eventually, there'll come a time where you'll burn out and the lack of effort in many peoples' profiles are rather glaring these days even with the person on the other end with the. "Just ask" or "Ask me" with just pictures and metrics to go off of. Some are so lazy that they just type in a bunch of jumbled letters to make word count. Pretty sad.

I think this is where these Tinder-like swipe/left and right apps are more appropriate. It's evolved to just lazy swipes of the finger...nothing more. People are numb. And I'm sick of seeing the same faces of the people over and over. This mean they are just looking for attention an validation...using online dating platforms for attention seeking...an extension to their social media pages.

I hate those profiles.

Ones that  are like "if you would like to know more just ask"....

Im  like byeeeeeee

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I never said anything was absolute.  You might like "the thrill of the chase" (in what context I'm not sure) but at the same time, I'm sure you'd enjoy just as much being pursued by a man.  As a rule, women would expect to be chased a lot more than they would have to chase.  There's a reason and it's biology.

If the woman is as dumb as a box of hammers and as vain as a Kardashian, almost every man lined up would still wine and dine her, so long as he could bang her.  And, so long as she was willing to have sex, most men, at least for a fair amount of time would gladly have let that piece of arm candy hang around for a while.

Wwhy are men soooooo desperate 

[Weezy1973]

I also suspect @ZA Dater is failing by design. As hard as a rejection after a first date may be, falling for someone, and feeling like you had a connection only to be dumped is harder. I suspect for example, @ZA Dater hasn’t gotten into a position to have sex with a woman on purpose (subconsciously) because he’s a virgin and would be devastated to be rejected because of it. So he makes sure he doesn’t get a second date. He swiped right on women he’s not attracted to. He wastes time pining for an experience in his past. And doesn’t take any advice that might garner success. 
 

He admits that there is no viable option for him. His standards are too high and unattainable. What a great way to stay away from anything meaningful!

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I never said anything was absolute.  You might like "the thrill of the chase" (in what context I'm not sure) but at the same time, I'm sure you'd enjoy just as much being pursued by a man.  As a rule, women would expect to be chased a lot more than they would have to chase.  There's a reason and it's biology.

If the woman is as dumb as a box of hammers and as vain as a Kardashian, almost every man lined up would still wine and dine her, so long as he could bang her.  And, so long as she was willing to have sex, most men, at least for a fair amount of time would gladly have let that piece of arm candy hang around for a while.

I don't agree that it's biology.  Instead, I think it's a ritual handed down from mother to daughter.   If it was biology, then the act of a woman being chased would have an evolutionary purpose.  And having the man chase would be a constant across every race and remote tribe around the globe.   For starters, there is no chasing in arranged marriages....

Hubby disagrees with you on the Kardashian thing.   He says dumb men may think this way, but says it's all about their own vanity.  (and no, he's not being coy for my benefit because he's as straight up as they come)

[basil67]

1 hour ago, miranda561 said:

Wwhy are men soooooo desperate 

Don't lose faith.  Hubby just completely disagreed with it.  

 

[miranda561]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Don't lose faith.  Hubby just completely disagreed with it.  

 

I think your hubby is right.

Its more narcissistic men i always thought were like that 🤔. 

[Weezy1973]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I don't agree that it's biology.  Instead, I think it's a ritual handed down from mother to daughter.   If it was biology, then the act of a woman being chased would have an evolutionary purpose.  And having the man chase would be a constant across every race and remote tribe around the globe.   For starters, there is no chasing in arranged marriages....

Chased is kind of a crude way of putting it. Courted might be better. But women are the choosers and men the choosees generally speaking. And there is an evolutionary reason. Namely eggs, pregnancy, childbirth and rearing a child are all “expensive” from an evolutionary perspective. Sperm is cheap. Women therefore are pickier about their potential partners than men. That’s why men are the chasers for the most part.

And @ZA Dater doesn’t like this phenomenon at all. But it is what it is.

[basil67]

Kind of.   To be clear, I'm talking about vain men, not narcissistic men.   Narcissism is a personality disorder and comes with a whole host of other controlling and gaslighting traits.   Garden variety vanity pales in comparison to Narcissism.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Chased is kind of a crude way of putting it. Courted might be better. But women are the choosers and men the choosees generally speaking. And there is an evolutionary reason. Namely eggs, pregnancy, childbirth and rearing a child are all “expensive” from an evolutionary perspective. Sperm is cheap. Women therefore are pickier about their potential partners than men. That’s why men are the chasers for the most part.  

I chased because I was picky.   See it, want it, get it.  

And because it was fun 😛

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, miranda561 said:

Wwhy are men soooooo desperate 

That's a matter of perspective.  Males have a carnal need to have sex.  Whilst you see it as grotesque, nature sees it as the integral part of the continuation of a species.

[miranda561]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Kind of.   To be clear, I'm talking about vain men, not narcissistic men.   Narcissism is a personality disorder and comes with a whole host of other controlling and gaslighting traits.   Garden variety vanity pales in comparison to Narcissism.

Yeh i know. Its both those who have  the disorder and those who are vain aswell. But dont have  the disorder 

[miranda561]

7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

That's a matter of perspective.  Males have a carnal need to have sex.  Whilst you see it as grotesque, nature sees it as the integral part of the continuation of a species.

Excusessssss.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by miranda561

[Woggle]

Certainly no fun of Kim Kardashian but I actually do get the feeling she is smarter than she plays on tv. She did turn being a celebrity for no reason into a lucrative career and she has helped get innocent people freed from prison. I can't stand most reality shows but she seems more in on the act than a lot of them and in some weird way I can respect that. It is obvious larger society does not appreciate true talent and greatness so why not get yours the way you can? Her husband is a lunatic but she actually doesn't bother me that much. She wouldn't be my type though.

[Trail Blazer]

34 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I don't agree that it's biology.  Instead, I think it's a ritual handed down from mother to daughter.   If it was biology, then the act of a woman being chased would have an evolutionary purpose.  And having the man chase would be a constant across every race and remote tribe around the globe.   For starters, there is no chasing in arranged marriages....

Hubby disagrees with you on the Kardashian thing.   He says dumb men may think this way, but says it's all about their own vanity.  (and no, he's not being coy for my benefit because he's as straight up as they come)

Are you serious?  Almost every species sees males fight, sometimes to the death, just so they have an opportunity to procreate and spread their seed.

Human's are the only species which sees any sort of deviation from this.  Since we are such a highly evolved species, social hierarchy is in many cultures more prevalent in determining the quality mate someone is likely to meet than any trait from yore.

Alpha traits in humans extends well beyond brute strength.  As humans evolved beyond a hunter and gatherer society, alpha traits saw a departure from simply being about physical attributes and into other areas.  For example; one's earning capacity is determined by having a specific skillset in which society derives value from.  Bringing down that wildebeest with a primitive weapon is no longer required when our food is sourced from agricultural and farming practises.

As men required less brawn and more brain, societies became a lot more complex.  Marriages were arranged and transactional.  How many of these arranged marriages throughout history saw the two parties who were wedded genuinely love one another on its own merits?

Disney has made a career out of the disenfranchised Princess who's forced to marry the ugly Prince from a far away place for the purposes of strengthening an allegiance between two regions when her heart pines for the handsome pauper who's career aspirations would not extend beyond becoming a qualified blacksmith?

Again, I'll reiterate that my point that some men some of the time will be able to overcome a lack of physical attributes to attract women.  It's why wealthy or powerful men often have young, beautiful women.  Women are attracted to wealth and power because its an indicator of a man's competency in a competitive, commercialized society. 

It shows that he's a level above his fellow man when it comes to society viewing his worth.  Money is the universal commodity to demonstrate societies value perception of someone.  That, along with a comfortable lifestyle and the attainment of material assets is attractive to many women.

However, at the same time, from an evolutionary biology perspective, there's no trumping a tall, handsome man when it comes to female lust and desire.  Any woman who disagrees and says, "I'm not interested in vain guys" and prefers Mr. Average Joe, is probably Mrs. Average Jane who is realistic about her prospects and is seeking her equal.

It's great that "every lid has a pot" and I really think most people should ideally find their equal and live a happy, fulfilling life and be loved.  However, humans have manufactured a way to bypass natural selection - survival of the fittest is no longer apt, especially in western societies with social security.  Everyone is free to meet their equal and breed, even if it's to the detriment of the gene pool (take the film Idiocracy as a shining example of this).

 

[Trail Blazer]

29 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

Excusessssss.

 

Do facts bother you?

[basil67]

32 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

However, at the same time, from an evolutionary biology perspective, there's no trumping a tall, handsome man when it comes to female lust and desire.  Any woman who disagrees and says, "I'm not interested in vain guys" and prefers Mr. Average Joe, is probably Mrs. Average Jane who is realistic about her prospects and is seeking her equal.

Are you serious?  You think all women are the same?  Tall handsome man (even more so if he has obvious muscle building) is NOT the guy I go after.   Probably unfairly, I prejudge him as being a vain a hole.

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

35 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Do facts bother you?

When it comes to theory, only mathematics have facts.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[Trail Blazer]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

When it comes to theory, only mathematics have facts.  

Yes, but a scientific theory is very different to hocus pocus.  A scientific theory is an accepted fact.

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Do facts bother you?

Nope.

Men can chose to NOT sleep with women If they want.

Edited May 17, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[basil67]

37 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Yes, but a scientific theory is very different to hocus pocus.  A scientific theory is an accepted fact.

Many scientific theories throughout time have been superceded, therefore, they weren't fact.  A good modern example is the theory of man made climate change.  While the majority of scientists support the theory, there is not 100% agreement, so I would argue that it's not considered to be a fact.  However, that the earth orbits the sun is generally considered to be fact because nobody is presenting data to refute it.    But in two hundred years, will scientists look at some of our current 'scientific facts' with new knowledge and disprove them?   If they can do so, then were those theories fact?  

When it comes to sociology, we have trends not facts.  That is because to call something a fact, it must be true 100% of the time.  But humans don't all behave in the same way without fail, so we cannot have fact in this sphere.   So while I will agree that it's a trend that the male human chases the female human, it is not a fact because it's not true 100% of the time.  

[Woggle]

People are overcomplicating what is a simple issue. The number one non physical factor in a woman's attraction is respect and they respect men who respect themselves. This doesn't mean that men need to sleep or be jerks or even be tall but they have to have strong core to them. They don't respect a soulless jellyfish who is willing to give up his dignity for a woman. This never works out well for men. When women go after bad boys or vain men or players they are going after men who know how to emulate these traits. 

By trying to make men more sensitive and railing against so called toxic masculinity we are doing both men and women a disservice. We teach men to act in ways that make women run and we deprive women of good partners by making men rebel against this by embracing so called toxic traits. I wish society would starting being honest with itself instead of trying to turn men into something that women who don't even like men say men should be. All we are doing is creating a bunch of bitter incels and bitter women who say men are trash because they are attracted to men who know how to emulate masculine strength.

We desperately need a model for masculine strength that also teaches men to honorable and honest or the state of relationships will just get worse and worse.

[basil67]

 Why is being sensitive to the needs of yourself and those around you a negative thing for a man?  A guy can be sensitive and masculine and have boundaries and strength all rolled into one wonderful package.   

@Woggle you may not realise this, but you appear to be very sensitive when you write such lovely things about your wife.  That you are each other’s shoulder to lean on during these times is beautifully sensitive and what many want in a partner.

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[Woggle]

12 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 Why is being sensitive to the needs of yourself and those around you a negative thing for a man?  A guy can be sensitive and masculine and have boundaries and strength all rolled into one wonderful package.   

@Woggle you may not realise this, but you appear to be very sensitive when you write such lovely things about your wife.  That you are each other’s shoulder to lean on during these times is beautifully sensitive and what many want in a partner.

I fully agree with you but I am also a strong person and people who know me know that I am sort of a hardass. I truly love her with all my heart but she has earned that love and the extremely unlikely event that she cheats and or leaves then I will let her go and move on. I might cry but not in public about it. I will never under any circumstance ever beg a woman to love me. If her love does not come as naturally as breathing for her then she does not love me and yes women should apply the same standard to men.

What you see in many situations these days is a man who is super in to a woman and super romantic about her while she runs the other way and is annoyed with him. There is a thread on this forum asking if a man can be too in to a woman and I see that situation over and over again. I also see a lot of men who are married or committed to a woman just devastated because that love has left her eyes or she wants a divorce and instead of being strong and telling her see ya he begs and he pleads and he goes overboard which only makes it worse.

Nobody respects a begging puppy who bases their life on their validation and is willing to give up their self respect to get it and that is the way many men act with women. The choices that are presented in the mainstream are either this or a self proclaimed alpha who has no sensitivity or honor but know how to mimic masculine strength. As much as I love my wife I would survive and thrive without her. The betrayal would cut like a knife but the wound will heal.