do you just eventually give up?

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Woggle said:

Nobody respects a begging puppy who bases their life on their validation and is willing to give up their self respect to get it and that is the way many men act with women. The choices that are presented in the mainstream are either this or a self proclaimed alpha who has no sensitivity or honor but know how to mimic masculine strength. 

I'm not saying that you lie about what you've read, but I honestly have never encountered it.  On my FB feed, the feminist posts I see really only involve activism around domestic violence. They also grumble about pockets. They'd be the first to call out women on these boards who slap their partners or throw stuff.   One of these friends is a DV/sexual assault nurse in an ER and she has quite a bit to say at present about the increase of DV with current stay at home restrictions.  

These same women and their husbands have raised fine young men and teach boundaries.  Both the young men enforcing their own boundaries and respecting women's boundaries.  They speak with pride about their boys.   As a feminist, I also had a good long chat about consent with my daughter when she started dating a guy who had not had a girlfriend before.  That she had to make sure he was comfortable before progressing sexual activity.  

My only conclusion is that we read very different media types.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Are you serious?  Almost every species sees males fight, sometimes to the death, just so they have an opportunity to procreate and spread their seed.

Human's are the only species which sees any sort of deviation from this.  Since we are such a highly evolved species, social hierarchy is in many cultures more prevalent in determining the quality mate someone is likely to meet than any trait from yore.

Alpha traits in humans extends well beyond brute strength.  As humans evolved beyond a hunter and gatherer society, alpha traits saw a departure from simply being about physical attributes and into other areas.  For example; one's earning capacity is determined by having a specific skillset in which society derives value from.  Bringing down that wildebeest with a primitive weapon is no longer required when our food is sourced from agricultural and farming practises.

As men required less brawn and more brain, societies became a lot more complex.  Marriages were arranged and transactional.  How many of these arranged marriages throughout history saw the two parties who were wedded genuinely love one another on its own merits?

Disney has made a career out of the disenfranchised Princess who's forced to marry the ugly Prince from a far away place for the purposes of strengthening an allegiance between two regions when her heart pines for the handsome pauper who's career aspirations would not extend beyond becoming a qualified blacksmith?

Again, I'll reiterate that my point that some men some of the time will be able to overcome a lack of physical attributes to attract women.  It's why wealthy or powerful men often have young, beautiful women.  Women are attracted to wealth and power because its an indicator of a man's competency in a competitive, commercialized society. 

It shows that he's a level above his fellow man when it comes to society viewing his worth.  Money is the universal commodity to demonstrate societies value perception of someone.  That, along with a comfortable lifestyle and the attainment of material assets is attractive to many women.

However, at the same time, from an evolutionary biology perspective, there's no trumping a tall, handsome man when it comes to female lust and desire.  Any woman who disagrees and says, "I'm not interested in vain guys" and prefers Mr. Average Joe, is probably Mrs. Average Jane who is realistic about her prospects and is seeking her equal.

It's great that "every lid has a pot" and I really think most people should ideally find their equal and live a happy, fulfilling life and be loved.  However, humans have manufactured a way to bypass natural selection - survival of the fittest is no longer apt, especially in western societies with social security.  Everyone is free to meet their equal and breed, even if it's to the detriment of the gene pool (take the film Idiocracy as a shining example of this).

 

LOL!!!

"Same flavor you've trusted, now with negging"

Hope you know I'm only playing. 😊 The rest was basic but it was an enjoyable go-over and the history is right, though it's pretty much linear but we get the gist and I agree with a bunch of it when taken in a general way. So this won't take the OP off the track really as far as very basic info but I am sure that OP's issue is with understanding biology, or more in the spirit of the above, anthropology. It's my opinion that he's avoiding. I think we're helping him so that...but I wish you luck, OP...I hope you come to terms with whatever the issues are. Hang in there.

Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Woggle]

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I'm not saying that you lie about what you've read, but I honestly have never encountered it.  On my FB feed, the feminist posts I see really only involve activism around domestic violence. They also grumble about pockets. They'd be the first to call out women on these boards who slap their partners or throw stuff.   One of these friends is a DV/sexual assault nurse in an ER and she has quite a bit to say at present about the increase of DV with current stay at home restrictions.  

These same women and their husbands have raised fine young men and teach boundaries.  Both the young men enforcing their own boundaries and respecting women's boundaries.  They speak with pride about their boys.   As a feminist, I also had a good long chat about consent with my daughter when she started dating a guy who had not had a girlfriend before.  That she had to make sure he was comfortable before progressing sexual activity.  

My only conclusion is that we read very different media types.  

I know for sure that the women who post on pink pill and go on about how men are trash represent an extremely small minority of women. That being said the way we approach relationships clearly is not working when you look at how few truly happy relationships you see. Not saying the old ways were good either but we just replaced something unhealthy with something that is unhealthy in a different way.

[basil67]

I've never heard of pink pill.   Meanwhile, what makes healthy and unhealthy relationships is a fabulous topic.  I would like to discuss further but want to stop my hijacking of ZA's thread.   Another thread perhaps?

[CaliforniaGirl]

12 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I know for sure that the women who post on pink pill and go on about how men are trash represent an extremely small minority of women. That being said the way we approach relationships clearly is not working when you look at how few truly happy relationships you see. Not saying the old ways were good either but we just replaced something unhealthy with something that is unhealthy in a different way.

Pink pill??? ETA: I'm sorry. I'm doing it too (hijacking) and more than once. I'm guess there may just not be much more to say on the original question... 😟

Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[chillii]

 

Well , there goes another 20 pager , so what have you learnt this time op , not that l expect an answer.

[Emilie Jolie]

8 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I also suspect @ZA Dater is failing by design. As hard as a rejection after a first date may be, falling for someone, and feeling like you had a connection only to be dumped is harder. I suspect for example, @ZA Dater hasn’t gotten into a position to have sex with a woman on purpose (subconsciously) because he’s a virgin and would be devastated to be rejected because of it. So he makes sure he doesn’t get a second date. He swiped right on women he’s not attracted to. He wastes time pining for an experience in his past. And doesn’t take any advice that might garner success. 
 

He admits that there is no viable option for him. His standards are too high and unattainable. What a great way to stay away from anything meaningful!

His standards are his own, and they seem attainable to others in relative terms, but yeah he knows he's chasing his own tail.

To be blunt (and I mean no offence to the lovely LS community - it's obvious we all want him to succeed, I imagine all the posters who take part in his threads are rooting for him), I see very few clear benefits to his mental and emotional health long term - other than getting immediate support of course, which is great,don't get me wrong - in him continuing to post here, unless it's also backed by help from a therapist who truly understands this kind of background. Not a run of the mill psych or counsellor, not a faux dating partner, not a non-judgemental friend (though these are all helpful for support of course) but someone who is trained in dealing with the specific psychological complexities that come with being a later-in-life virgin (sorry to be so explicit, ZA!). In his shoes, I would take no real comfort in reading these conflicting masterclasses on the theory of dating from people who either are not single and have not been in decades, or who have had some dating success, or who have no concrete experience (or empathy) in his specific circumstances (I include myself in this list).

It's not a unique case for a start, it needn't be a big deal, I personally have no doubt this can be addressed successfully, but it is in ZA Dater's hands. 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[basil67]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Pink pill??? ETA: I'm sorry. I'm doing it too (hijacking) and more than once. I'm guess there may just not be much more to say on the original question... 😟

@CaliforniaGirl and @Woggle I just asked 20yo feminist about Pink Pill.  She'd never heard of it, but suggested it was satirical.  So I looked it up and she was right.  Satire was one of the words on their self description.

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[Trail Blazer]

12 hours ago, miranda561 said:

Nope.

Men can chose to NOT sleep with women If they want.

"if they want."  

Why would they not want to sleep with women when they're biologically programmed to want to do just that?

[salparadise]

7 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I see very few clear benefits to his mental and emotional health long term - other than getting immediate support of course, which is great,don't get me wrong - in him continuing to post here, unless it's also backed by help from a therapist who truly understands...

It would be nice to think a qualified therapist could help ZA, but I agree with whomever posed the theory that he's avoidant and has settled into a system (defense mechanisms) designed to protect him from suffering actual rejection by accepting this theoretical presumption of rejection by the entire opposite sex. In other words, if he doesn't try he can't fail, therefore he avoids acute pain, but he also can't succeed, which leaves him with this achy, chronic pain and yearning for connection, companionship, and intimacy. 

Also, this trap of settling by hanging onto a woman who has rejected you sexually, but offered friendship, and now has taken another lover... well, no wonder ZA feels inadequate. Man, you can't let women do you this way. They'll soak up all the attention and adoration of a hundred men and not think twice about it being unfair to the men! If it's not reciprocal, it's not good for you. And if you want to be available for another opportunity, you have to get yourself free and clear of encumbrances.

This is mostly a matter of being decisive and acting in your own best interest. Maybe the right therapist could help, but ultimately you have to commit to going for what you want and be willing to fail and try again, and to believe in your worthiness, however long it takes. And you can't just pretend to be resolute, you have to commit from the core of your being. ZA, I think you need to quit pushing back against posters who are trying to help you break out –– it's only reinforcing negatives, and it makes them feel like giving up. And I do think that there's someone out there for you, but you have to believe it and open the door to possibilities. Wishing you the best.

Edited May 17, 2020 by salparadise

[ZA Dater]

14 minutes ago, salparadise said:

It would be nice to think a qualified therapist could help ZA, but I agree with whomever posed the theory that he's avoidant and has settled into a system (defense mechanisms) designed to protect him from suffering actual rejection by accepting this theoretical presumption of rejection by the entire opposite sex. In other words, if he doesn't try he can't fail, therefore he avoids acute pain, but he also can't succeed, which leaves him with this achy, chronic pain and yearning for connection, companionship, and intimacy. 

Also, this trap of settling by hanging onto a woman who has rejected you sexually, but offered friendship, and now has taken another lover... well, no wonder ZA feels inadequate. Man, you can't let women do you this way. They'll soak up all the attention and adoration of a hundred men and not think twice about it being unfair to the men! If it's not reciprocal, it's not good for you. And if you want to be available for another opportunity, you have to get yourself free and clear of encumbrances.

This is mostly a matter of being decisive and acting in your own best interest. Maybe the right therapist could help, but ultimately you have to commit to going for what you want and be willing to fail and try again, and to believe in your worthiness, however long it takes. And you can't just pretend to be resolute, you have to commit from the core of your being. ZA, I think you need to quit pushing back against posters who are trying to help you break out –– it's only reinforcing negatives, and it makes them feel like giving up. And I do think that there's someone out there for you, but you have to believe it and open the door to possibilities. Wishing you the best.

I will answer the other post you quoted separately.

The issue is I do try, I wouldn't be on three dating apps if I wasn't trying but the problem seemingly is finding the sort of person I like,  have been on MANY dates with many different sorts of people so I do have an idea what I don't like.

Again I get a better level of attention in this friend zone than I do on actual dates, why is that? Well I think its because I just don't connect with these people, or there is a complete mismatch of what each person actually wants. I once chased a co worker, who wasn't single either, she loved the attention and I loved her attention too. Again it was beneficial to me because sure I went on looking for dates but at least I got some sort of attention.

 

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

The difference may be that I find many guys attractive. There is so much to people. People are fascinating. And a lot...a lot of guys are cute. Even guys who aren't crazy hot will often have a really attractive physical feature or two. Hands. Butt. Eyes. Voice...

Have you considered whether you really want a relationship at all? Whether it's a coincidence...fate...or maybe something a lot more practical that made you open up and find tons and tons of common ground on just ordinary friendship things, with someone who it was clear from the beginning posed absolutely no threat of becoming a real lover?

I don't know you. But I do know page after page after page after page of excuses when I see them.

I feel like you should stop running toward, stop running away, stop...just stop. And face yourself. For real.

Something is going on here, and it's not that 99% of women in New Zealand are physically unpalatable.

I think you know this.

Will you date a guy with one great feature over a conventionally hot guy with many great features?

I just felt comfortable with her from the off which again it quite rare and I did chase her for a while when she was single because I did want to date her, however life had other ideas and well all my self improvement came to nothing because she found someone she does really like so I pretty much lost out so now I have a good friend which I guess isn't a bad outcome when it comes to me and my general difficulty at making friends.

PS I don't live in New Zealand

I face myself often and take stock often, thing is I guess I don't tick the boxes of people I find attractive, that's just the reality, I like to believe there is something good about me even if the dating world seems to contradict this. I have been on date after date and I realise now those were a waste of time because I was only going out with them because they actually wanted to go out with me, rather than actually finding them attractive.

[miranda561]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I will answer the other post you quoted separately.

The issue is I do try, I wouldn't be on three dating apps if I wasn't trying but the problem seemingly is finding the sort of person I like,  have been on MANY dates with many different sorts of people so I do have an idea what I don't like.

Again I get a better level of attention in this friend zone than I do on actual dates, why is that? Well I think its because I just don't connect with these people, or there is a complete mismatch of what each person actually wants. I once chased a co worker, who wasn't single either, she loved the attention and I loved her attention too. Again it was beneficial to me because sure I went on looking for dates but at least I got some sort of attention.

 

So  what do you like? Describe your ideal woman in looks and personality.

And then describe what type of woman you attract but dont like..

[ZA Dater]

18 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

It's good that you have a quality friendship that makes you feel good about yourself .

It's just that it is putting undue pressure on you and on your prospective dates. It's difficult for them to compete with what you feel is the perfect level of connection, built over a number of years even if you feel it came instantly, in only a few hours at most. It would be easier, I guess, to bring your A game as a matter of course to all the women you talk to so they have a fair shot at getting to know who you actually are. It's a learning curve for sure, I get that, especially if you're naturally a very private person, but you are limiting yourself by only bringing your best self to the table under certain conditions. Do it all the time!

 

Why I don't find miss out of shape attractive so why bother putting in any real effort, I don't want to sleep with her so arguably I shouldn't be going on date with her at all but even I need some interaction.

[miranda561]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Will you date a guy with one great feature over a conventionally hot guy with many great features?

I just felt comfortable with her from the off which again it quite rare and I did chase her for a while when she was single because I did want to date her, however life had other ideas and well all my self improvement came to nothing because she found someone she does really like so I pretty much lost out so now I have a good friend which I guess isn't a bad outcome when it comes to me and my general difficulty at making friends.

PS I don't live in New Zealand

I face myself often and take stock often, thing is I guess I don't tick the boxes of people I find attractive, that's just the reality, I like to believe there is something good about me even if the dating world seems to contradict this. I have been on date after date and I realise now those were a waste of time because I was only going out with them because they actually wanted to go out with me, rather than actually finding them attractive.

I for one have not found conventionally good looking guy with many great features.

No one is perfect... i do think there is a fair amount of compromising i will have  to do now in order to settle down. Thats just life!

And guess what according to my personality type..im the most idealistic of all 16 personality types .and even i  have realised the fact that No one is going to fit my endless ideals

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by miranda561

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

So  what do you like? Describe your ideal woman in looks and personality.

And then describe what type of woman you attract but dont like..

At least be reasonably in shape, I don't a model but at least be reasonably fit. Suppose a pretty to me face is a good start.  Medium height to tall is nice.

They have to be well spoken, at least have some interest in the world around them, be motivated in whatever it is they are doing, be passionate about something, can be anything really, have some views and opinions about things going on around us. Honesty is nice, warm personality is nice. They need to exude some sort of class.

Again I don't feel the above is particularly fussy to be honest, I have met people like this, but very few, there are more around but unsurprisingly they are not single.

[Atwood]

I've had a skim through this thread and read some of your replies, and I've noticed a few things.

When people say you're picky, they're not saying you're not allowed to have preferences or that you should date someone you don't find attractive. It's about the fact that your expectations of other people are confusing and unrealistic. You consistently bring up being good at communication and conversational skills and having opinions as desirable traits in a partner, but in your very first post you describe someone as "too open minded" for your liking. So which is it? Do you want them to have opinions, or do you want them to have your opinions? I'd like some clarification on what you mean. 

The way you discuss a potential partner in general is very much like a factory-new made-to-order wife that you can buy online. I'm not saying you really feel this way, but it's the vibe you're giving off. Describing your work friends as "having their purpose" is a bit yikes. You appear to be intolerant of the idea that your partner will exist separately from your wants and needs all the time. Partners fluctuate in weight, they dye their hair, they express opinions that you don't agree with, they aren't supposed to be your mirror. I know you will say "but I won't date someone I'm not attracted to" and that's fair, but let's try to remember that some people get so addicted to hentai and virutal japanese girlfriends that they can't stomach the thought of a real person. Nobody is immune to unrealistic expectations. We can act like "I just have preferences!" but at some point we have to be introspective and question where our expectations have come from and unpick whether or not we're shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run. If your preferences are "someone who doesn't realistically exist" then you can chase it and be alone, or start doing some hard work on yourself. 

You discuss dating like a market and women like they're products on the market with cons and benefits. You might think you're hiding it well, but women can sense that attitude from one word or action and it's not attractive at all. There have been men I've known who I thought were attractive until I discovered their views on women, and the attraction went flying straight out the window. On the flip side, one of my best friends met a guy 20 years her senior and none of us thought he was attractive at all. Discovered he was a very intelligent, empathetic humanist with passions for equality for women, LGBT community and POC. Pretty much the entire group of friends lusted after him after that despite him not changing his appearance. Chemistry and energy are complicated and attraction is complicated and you can develop a crush on someone you've had no prior attraction to for years. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. You seem to think attraction happens always within 5 minutes - it doesn't and by refusing to accept that, you're not giving anyone else the time to get attracted to you, let alone you getting attracted to them.

You're talking about going on a date with someone you're not even attracted to because you need interaction. It's all about you and what you can get from other people. It's all about how other people can serve their purpose in your life. "They need to exude class" or even if a man were to say to me "you're so classy" would be enough for me to halt right there. 

 

[miranda561]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

At least be reasonably in shape, I don't a model but at least be reasonably fit. Suppose a pretty to me face is a good start.  Medium height to tall is nice.

They have to be well spoken, at least have some interest in the world around them, be motivated in whatever it is they are doing, be passionate about something, can be anything really, have some views and opinions about things going on around us. Honesty is nice, warm personality is nice. They need to exude some sort of class.

Again I don't feel the above is particularly fussy to be honest, I have met people like this, but very few, there are more around but unsurprisingly they are not single.

Yeh i was going to say for someone who seems very particular  in what they want (it was vague)..i would think there would be streams of women who fit those. 

I mean even i probably can easily be in that category.

I do think you have to try all avenues now. Instead of simply relying on old

 

[miranda561]

5 minutes ago, Atwood said:

I've had a skim through this thread and read some of your replies, and I've noticed a few things.

When people say you're picky, they're not saying you're not allowed to have preferences or that you should date someone you don't find attractive. It's about the fact that your expectations of other people are confusing and unrealistic. You consistently bring up being good at communication and conversational skills and having opinions as desirable traits in a partner, but in your very first post you describe someone as "too open minded" for your liking. So which is it? Do you want them to have opinions, or do you want them to have your opinions? I'd like some clarification on what you mean. 

The way you discuss a potential partner in general is very much like a factory-new made-to-order wife that you can buy online. I'm not saying you really feel this way, but it's the vibe you're giving off. Describing your work friends as "having their purpose" is a bit yikes. You appear to be intolerant of the idea that your partner will exist separately from your wants and needs all the time. Partners fluctuate in weight, they dye their hair, they express opinions that you don't agree with, they aren't supposed to be your mirror. I know you will say "but I won't date someone I'm not attracted to" and that's fair, but let's try to remember that some people get so addicted to hentai and virutal japanese girlfriends that they can't stomach the thought of a real person. Nobody is immune to unrealistic expectations. We can act like "I just have preferences!" but at some point we have to be introspective and question where our expectations have come from and unpick whether or not we're shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run. If your preferences are "someone who doesn't realistically exist" then you can chase it and be alone, or start doing some hard work on yourself. 

You discuss dating like a market and women like they're products on the market with cons and benefits. You might think you're hiding it well, but women can sense that attitude from one word or action and it's not attractive at all. There have been men I've known who I thought were attractive until I discovered their views on women, and the attraction went flying straight out the window. On the flip side, one of my best friends met a guy 20 years her senior and none of us thought he was attractive at all. Discovered he was a very intelligent, empathetic humanist with passions for equality for women, LGBT community and POC. Pretty much the entire group of friends lusted after him after that despite him not changing his appearance. Chemistry and energy are complicated and attraction is complicated and you can develop a crush on someone you've had no prior attraction to for years. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. You seem to think attraction happens always within 5 minutes - it doesn't and by refusing to accept that, you're not giving anyone else the time to get attracted to you, let alone you getting attracted to them.

You're talking about going on a date with someone you're not even attracted to because you need interaction. It's all about you and what you can get from other people. It's all about how other people can serve their purpose in your life. "They need to exude class" or even if a man were to say to me "you're so classy" would be enough for me to halt right there. 

 

The op specifically  said he can't be attracted to someone over time. Its either he is initially or he isnt 😂😂

Im sure hes nexted a lot of people 

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Atwood said:

I've had a skim through this thread and read some of your replies, and I've noticed a few things.

When people say you're picky, they're not saying you're not allowed to have preferences or that you should date someone you don't find attractive. It's about the fact that your expectations of other people are confusing and unrealistic. You consistently bring up being good at communication and conversational skills and having opinions as desirable traits in a partner, but in your very first post you describe someone as "too open minded" for your liking. So which is it? Do you want them to have opinions, or do you want them to have your opinions? I'd like some clarification on what you mean. 

The way you discuss a potential partner in general is very much like a factory-new made-to-order wife that you can buy online. I'm not saying you really feel this way, but it's the vibe you're giving off. Describing your work friends as "having their purpose" is a bit yikes. You appear to be intolerant of the idea that your partner will exist separately from your wants and needs all the time. Partners fluctuate in weight, they dye their hair, they express opinions that you don't agree with, they aren't supposed to be your mirror. I know you will say "but I won't date someone I'm not attracted to" and that's fair, but let's try to remember that some people get so addicted to hentai and virutal japanese girlfriends that they can't stomach the thought of a real person. Nobody is immune to unrealistic expectations. We can act like "I just have preferences!" but at some point we have to be introspective and question where our expectations have come from and unpick whether or not we're shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run. If your preferences are "someone who doesn't realistically exist" then you can chase it and be alone, or start doing some hard work on yourself. 

You discuss dating like a market and women like they're products on the market with cons and benefits. You might think you're hiding it well, but women can sense that attitude from one word or action and it's not attractive at all. There have been men I've known who I thought were attractive until I discovered their views on women, and the attraction went flying straight out the window. On the flip side, one of my best friends met a guy 20 years her senior and none of us thought he was attractive at all. Discovered he was a very intelligent, empathetic humanist with passions for equality for women, LGBT community and POC. Pretty much the entire group of friends lusted after him after that despite him not changing his appearance. Chemistry and energy are complicated and attraction is complicated and you can develop a crush on someone you've had no prior attraction to for years. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. You seem to think attraction happens always within 5 minutes - it doesn't and by refusing to accept that, you're not giving anyone else the time to get attracted to you, let alone you getting attracted to them.

You're talking about going on a date with someone you're not even attracted to because you need interaction. It's all about you and what you can get from other people. It's all about how other people can serve their purpose in your life. "They need to exude class" or even if a man were to say to me "you're so classy" would be enough for me to halt right there. 

 

The reality here is quite simple in my mind. Why should I give someone 10 dates when I get rejected after 1? This may seem petty to you but its a major bugbear of mine. You seem to forget I am being rejected far more often than I am rejecting.

Most of everything else is subjective in my opinion, your wants, my wants the guys two blocks down wants they are all different at the end of the day. I know guys who have no qualms about one night stands, I would never do that even if I had the opportunity, I chased this for a while but again even more difficult than dating unless I was prepared to once again for physically unattractive people.

[Emilie Jolie]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Why I don't find miss out of shape attractive so why bother putting in any real effort, I don't want to sleep with her so arguably I shouldn't be going on date with her at all but even I need some interaction.

Arguably?🤨

Using women like this is rogue; seriously off the scale offputting, my friend. I've desperately been trying to find you some redeeming features but you're not making it easy.

 

 

 

[Atwood]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The reality here is quite simple in my mind. Why should I give someone 10 dates when I get rejected after 1? This may seem petty to you but its a major bugbear of mine. You seem to forget I am being rejected far more often than I am rejecting.

Most of everything else is subjective in my opinion, your wants, my wants the guys two blocks down wants they are all different at the end of the day. I know guys who have no qualms about one night stands, I would never do that even if I had the opportunity, I chased this for a while but again even more difficult than dating unless I was prepared to once again for physically unattractive people.

I didn't forget. If holding onto that bugbear is worth losing out, that's your choice and nobody can fix it for you. It sounds like resentment to me. "Why should I" is petulant and entitled behaviour, tit for tat. If you'll only give because you think you'll get, you're going to be unhappy. 

True, but if your wants aren't realistic, don't scratch your head when you can't get what you want.

You've ignored most of my post which observes how you seem to view women, so is it safe to assume I am correct or not?

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Atwood

[Atwood]

13 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

The op specifically  said he can't be attracted to someone over time. Its either he is initially or he isnt 😂😂

Im sure hes nexted a lot of people 

If only it was as simple as knowing instantaneously. 

[Emilie Jolie]

56 minutes ago, salparadise said:

It would be nice to think a qualified therapist could help ZA, but I agree with whomever posed the theory that he's avoidant and has settled into a system (defense mechanisms) designed to protect him from suffering actual rejection by accepting this theoretical presumption of rejection by the entire opposite sex. In other words, if he doesn't try he can't fail, therefore he avoids acute pain, but he also can't succeed, which leaves him with this achy, chronic pain and yearning for connection, companionship, and intimacy. 

Yeah, this theory has been laid out a few times in different ways by different people on this thread alone.

At this stage, it's not a question of it 'being nice to think a qualified therapist can help', it's that these deep rooted issues will not magically disappear on their own one morning and ZA will suddenly see the light.

 

Anyway. Not giving up doesn't mean forcing yourself to go on dates with women you find unattractive. This is basic good character stuff, not victim-of-your-own-making stuff. 

 

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, Atwood said:

You've ignored most of my post which observes how you seem to view women, so is it safe to assume I am correct or not?

 

I didn't, just have some lunch to eat.

Your perceptions wrong. My view on women is largely defined by the own fairly poor experience with many of them in the dating world. I have lady co workers who I get along with perfectly well, I can sit and talk about all manner of things, enquire about their kids etc. However when it comes to dating I take the general view of disdain when I am told "well you should give them a chance", that gets up my nose quite a lot because when am I ever given a chance before being thrown away like rubbish after date 1? I seen reason to extend such chances to people I can see I don't find attractive enough.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh.

I go on dates and I try as I do with everything I do but  just as women can reject me (that happens often) I can reject too (that happens less often) what make me rejecting them any more wrong than them not giving me a proper chance .

Again it think its perspective and circumstance, the good experience I have had I want to replicate and build on, if there is nothing to build then really why should I bother with someone? Much the same way I get rejected for what would probably be the same reason.