do you just eventually give up?

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I also suspect @ZA Dater is failing by design. As hard as a rejection after a first date may be, falling for someone, and feeling like you had a connection only to be dumped is harder. I suspect for example, @ZA Dater hasn’t gotten into a position to have sex with a woman on purpose (subconsciously) because he’s a virgin and would be devastated to be rejected because of it. So he makes sure he doesn’t get a second date. He swiped right on women he’s not attracted to. He wastes time pining for an experience in his past. And doesn’t take any advice that might garner success. 
 

He admits that there is no viable option for him. His standards are too high and unattainable. What a great way to stay away from anything meaningful!

I don't think what I am looking for unrealistic. However these is some truth to the above but only I had ever found I wanted who wanted me which has yet happened. As for sex, well yes there is truth to that but again I really didn't find the people attractive.

What you don't get and here I am going to rely on the fact you have had some success, what did it feel like to be liked by someone you liked? I am sure it was great and made you want to be with them, I am sure it didn't take you 5 dates to determine you liked the person.

I cannot force myself to like someone who doesn't wow me. Sorry but I just cant. My criteria for wow aren't ridiculous at all but the problem is what wows me wows virtually every other guy and that doesn't work out well.

As for wanting to have sex, I did with a few of these dates because they really did appeal to me in terms of "well this can work, there is enough intellectual attraction to go along with the physical attraction". The politics lady was one such example, she nearly came over before we even met but the date itself was great for me but obviously not for her because after a kiss on the cheek by me I never saw her again and I was ghosted. For me yes if I am going to take off my kit I at least want to feel like she likes me and I like her.

I met a Swedish tourist for a date and again she had the mix of intellectual attraction and physical attraction but if you read how hard it is for me to date you realise escalating dates to physical is pretty much impossible.

Just being candid here.

 

[Atwood]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I didn't, just have some lunch to eat.

Your perceptions wrong. My view on women is largely defined by the own fairly poor experience with many of them in the dating world. I have lady co workers who I get along with perfectly well, I can sit and talk about all manner of things, enquire about their kids etc. However when it comes to dating I take the general view of disdain when I am told "well you should give them a chance", that gets up my nose quite a lot because when am I ever given a chance before being thrown away like rubbish after date 1? I seen reason to extend such chances to people I can see I don't find attractive enough.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh.

I go on dates and I try as I do with everything I do but  just as women can reject me (that happens often) I can reject too (that happens less often) what make me rejecting them any more wrong than them not giving me a proper chance .

Again it think its perspective and circumstance, the good experience I have had I want to replicate and build on, if there is nothing to build then really why should I bother with someone? Much the same way I get rejected for what would probably be the same reason.

I hope it's a nice lunch. 

I'm sorry about your poor experience. I've had extremely negative experiences with men i.e assault, violence, etc, so I can understand developing a general kind of feeling. I don't think you should "give someone a chance" if you're not interested, I wouldn't do it either. However, the attitude of "why should I let my walls down when I'll only get hurt again" was a big issue for me and even though I am in a relationship, it would have eventually destroyed it if I didn't address that thought. I'm not asking you to change your opinions on specific women, you need a shift in your relationship to the concept of dating and attractiveness. Your previous experiences have likely resulted in creating some beliefs about yourself and others which aren't true and are interfering with your ability to date successfully. Are you not willing to pursue therapy? 

[miranda561]

52 minutes ago, Atwood said:

If only it was as simple as knowing instantaneously. 

Yeh. For me personally i give the person more chances to show themselves..even if initially im not that into it.

 

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What you don't get and here I am going to rely on the fact you have had some success, what did it feel like to be liked by someone you liked? I am sure it was great and made you want to be with them, I am sure it didn't take you 5 dates to determine you liked the person.

I cannot force myself to like someone who doesn't wow me.

 

So my first major experience was unrequited love. I suspect it was very similar to what you experience, and I touched on it in an earlier post. I fell for a girl in high school and was completely smitten, but she only saw me as friend. But that crush pretty much consumed all of my romantic energy throughout those high school years and early into my twenties. 
 

When I was 22 I met a woman through friends who I knew was smitten with me, and I liked her but wasn’t really that attracted to her, but we went out on a date and it ended up turning into a six year relationship. A very healthy relationship in many ways, except, I never really did grow attracted to her, and that led to the end of the relationship ultimately. 
 

Immediately after her I started seeing a woman I met in university that I was extremely attracted to - but it was pretty much the opposite experience of the previous relationship. Great physical chemistry but a somewhat toxic relationship and it ended for that reason. 
 

Fast forward 12 years, and when I met my wife through OLD, I was multi dating and she was basically one of the handful of women I was contacting / going on dates with. I knew there was potential but I wasn’t just focusing on her. It took a bit of time getting to know her and the other women for us to become exclusive. About six weeks or so. In other words, I wasn’t wowed initially, but also knew there was potential. And obviously I ended up asking her to marry me so couldn’t be happier with how it ended up!

 

This short novel is just to show that there are many different ways that a relationship can start. Holding out for WOW is likely holding you back. Many relationships start with an initial just okay. Not fireworks. And even when there are initial fireworks or WOW, that doesn’t guarantee any kind of compatibility long term. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

This short novel is just to show that there are many different ways that a relationship can start. Holding out for WOW is likely holding you back. Many relationships start with an initial just okay. Not fireworks. And even when there are initial fireworks or WOW, that doesn’t guarantee any kind of compatibility long term. 

I never get to date two because I am rejected, not because I reject them. Infuriatingly the people I am not interested in at all are the ones who seem to want to date me and no matter how I look at it, I cannot date someone I don't find physically attractive.

Whereas all the ones I do find attractive, well they reject me after one date.

So yes I guess I need to find a different way to meet people. Again I guess its a case of trying to put behind me the experiences of past but I also cant escape the fact I have had dates which were great but never went anywhere.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ZA Dater

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Will you date a guy with one great feature over a conventionally hot guy with many great features?

I just felt comfortable with her from the off which again it quite rare and I did chase her for a while when she was single because I did want to date her, however life had other ideas and well all my self improvement came to nothing because she found someone she does really like so I pretty much lost out so now I have a good friend which I guess isn't a bad outcome when it comes to me and my general difficulty at making friends.

PS I don't live in New Zealand

I face myself often and take stock often, thing is I guess I don't tick the boxes of people I find attractive, that's just the reality, I like to believe there is something good about me even if the dating world seems to contradict this. I have been on date after date and I realise now those were a waste of time because I was only going out with them because they actually wanted to go out with me, rather than actually finding them attractive.

Your first Q: yes, and I have, but you don't want to believe that so I don't know why I'm bothering to answer. 🤐

2. Her her her her her. She doesn't want you, which automatically makes her not you ideal relationship and highest goal or model of your best romantic relationship.

3. New Zealand: obviously I was mistaken, but way to make sure you avoid the point again.

You do not want a relationship and have successfully wasted more time you could have spent looking for one. You could keep this up for a lifetime and probably will.

[CaliforniaGirl]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I never get to date two because I am rejected, not because I reject them. Infuriatingly the people I am not interested in at all are the ones who seem to want to date me and no matter how I look at it, I cannot date someone I don't find physically attractive.

Whereas all the ones I do find attractive, well they reject me after one date.

So yes I guess I need to find a different way to meet people. Again I guess its a case of trying to put behind me the experiences of past but I also cant escape the fact I have had dates which were great but never went anywhere.

It isn't infuriating because it isn't coincidental, not with this many instances. You are making sure to only be attracted to the ones who are showing pretty clear signs that they don't want you, and to immediately be turned off by those willing to give you a chance.

 

[ZA Dater]

24 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

It isn't infuriating because it isn't coincidental, not with this many instances. You are making sure to only be attracted to the ones who are showing pretty clear signs that they don't want you, and to immediately be turned off by those willing to give you a chance.

 

By that logic I should then be dating people who I don't find attractive at all......I'd rather have nothing in that case.

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

By that logic I should then be dating people who I don't find attractive at all......I'd rather have nothing in that case.

Absolutely not. By this logic, you should find a.professional who can help you discover why you make sure to safely be unattracted to "99%" of women. : )

But you already knew that. It was just safer to rework the words yet again.

Be brave. Hire someone. Someone good. Start the work.

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

You do not want a relationship and have successfully wasted more time you could have spent looking for one. You could keep this up for a lifetime and probably will.

Keep up what exactly? Having some level of standard as to what I like? Its easy to say from the perspective of someone  who can date people they find attractive...because someone can tell me about ancient Egypt doesn't make them attractive, because someone is tall and slim doesn't solely make them attractive.

 

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Absolutely not. By this logic, you should find a.professional who can help you discover why you make sure to safely be unattracted to "99%" of women. : )

But you already knew that. It was just safer to rework the words yet again.

Be brave. Hire someone. Someone good. Start the work.

You simply aren't getting it....I CANNOT attract slim people, I ONLY attract large overweight people. I fail to see what a therapist has to do with that?

Then again the few decently looking dynamic people I have met up with, that didn't go too well either and you know the amazing thing about dating coaches, you can ask five a question and get five different answers, hardly much science there..

 

[ZA Dater]

34 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

 You are making sure to only be attracted to the ones who are showing pretty clear signs that they don't want you, and to immediately be turned off by those willing to give you a chance.

 

Why sit and have dinner for 3 hours, tell me "well you are a great guy, I am not sure about relationship but I definitely want to be friends" Sorry doesn't compute but then again as I have learnt very little about dating is transparent, its about as transactional as walking in a ordering a coffee and a muffin, don't like that guy, well show some skin and keep swiping you will definitely be able to find another guy.

The guys, well post pictures with dogs, friends, animals, on the beach, in fast cars, heck anything you can to try and get some attention but well yes you need to be A because there is always that next swipe and that next guy she can choose so you'd better be on form. Deeply cynical but in terms of OLD I believe to be 95% true.

Another poster asked why I see this is like a transaction because OLD has made it thus, I am sore about the above date because it was a good one and there was a lot of commonality, did she want a one night and I wanted a relationship, I don't know because as ever the guy apparently needs to guess.

Do you blame me for my approach, probably because you cannot walk in my shoes, all you advocate is settling for '"that will do" but I suspect if you were told that you would be saying exactly the same as I am.

So no "that will do" doesn't work for me and no a kiss at mid night wont turn her into a princess anymore than it will turn a Mustang into a horse drawn carriage.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You simply aren't getting it....I CANNOT attract slim people, I ONLY attract large overweight people. I fail to see what a therapist has to do with that?

Then again the few decently looking dynamic people I have met up with, that didn't go too well either and you know the amazing thing about dating coaches, you can ask five a question and get five different answers, hardly much science there..

 

What is it you'd like us to tell you, exactly? It's been 20 pages. Literally, no answer satisfies you, except nods of agreement that women are fat and gross. Is that what you seek? Can you be clear so we know what to say, or know not to answer at all of we've got nothing? I am honestly lost.

You refuse all help and come back to: you attract only fat women. The end.

What do you want?

Should a sacrificial Crossfit woman come forward? 

What's the question in this thread?

[CaliforniaGirl]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You simply aren't getting it....I CANNOT attract slim people, I ONLY attract large overweight people. I fail to see what a therapist has to do with that?

Then again the few decently looking dynamic people I have met up with, that didn't go too well either and you know the amazing thing about dating coaches, you can ask five a question and get five different answers, hardly much science there..

 

I am definitely not referring to a dating coach. I am referring to therapy. 

But it's not you, it's them - all of them - so forget it.

Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I am definitely not referring to a dating coach. I am referring to therapy. 

But it's not you, it's them - all of them - so forget it.

Oh no it is me, definitely me. Don't worry though, at least I know I am not the only one in this thread who thinks the way I do.

[CaliforniaGirl]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Oh no it is me, definitely me. Don't worry though, at least I know I am not the only one in this thread who thinks the way I do.

What is it you want? What is your request with this thread?

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

You simply aren't getting it....I CANNOT attract slim people, I ONLY attract large overweight people. I fail to see what a therapist has to do with that?

 

You have attracted slim people (matched / gotten dates), but haven’t yet made it past a first date with one of these women. But as you say, there have been few of these cases.

 

Stop swiping right on overweight women. 

[ZA Dater]

14 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

What is it you want? What is your request with this thread?

Does it really matter what I say on a date because even when I do meet someone I like it doesn't work anyway no matter what I do and say.

Is there a point where someone like me is too compromised to be a viable choice for anyone who has choices of other guys? Do I simply just cut my losses at this point and just accept the only way I can get this right is to pay for a false date at least that way I have some sort of choice whereas now, well its not me doing the picking but them doing the picking.

How would my approach differ between going for a "ok lets have a second date" to ok "lets have fun".

Are there any really honest ladies? For me last year it was just a case of meeting two people I liked a lot and nothing came of either of them. Do women like to be excessively charmed, is being honest bad, I cant fake the fact I have had not relationships so I am not prepared to lie about that when asked, is it SO bad to be honest?

I used to go out at night and I just cant get it honestly I cant, the idea doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it would seem the way to go about things would be to have some drinks, loosen everyone up, talk ever varying amounts of nonsense, flirt with her and well there your job is done. Is there ANY way at all to overcome not being able to do that because I totally CANNOT.

Over time I have lost sight of what people want, maybe I never knew to begin with, maybe my logic was wrong but I do feel ever greater amounts of pressure, I am ever more aware that I don't want single moms but equally I cannot get the 25--32yo either.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You have attracted slim people (matched / gotten dates), but haven’t yet made it past a first date with one of these women. But as you say, there have been few of these cases.

 

Stop swiping right on overweight women. 

My friend I have had 4.....yes 4 in 4 years...that's hardly a fantastic number is it? SO when I do I almost always then feel the weight of the world on my shoulders and even then I have then found of the 4, perhaps 2 were actually really nice people.

I am going to give OLD a complete miss. If I never meet anyone then so be it.

[Weezy1973]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My friend I have had 4.....yes 4 in 4 years...that's hardly a fantastic number is it? SO when I do I almost always then feel the weight of the world on my shoulders and even then I have then found of the 4, perhaps 2 were actually really nice people.

I am going to give OLD a complete miss. If I never meet anyone then so be it.

Yes I suspect your experience has been shared by others and it is entirely unpleasant. Either someone you’re not attracted to, which can be frustrating, or someone you are attracted to, which induces anxiety because you feel like it’s your only chance. So your two main experiences with OLD are frustration and anxiety. Not pleasant.

 

I was you back in my early OLD days, but I learned and changed how I went about it, and the experience became much more satisfying, ending of course as you know meeting my now wife.

 

You need to be willing to learn and change. That’s the key. And that’s what you’re intent on resisting. Actually doing things differently. I could give you a whole outline of how to go about it, and if you followed it, it would probably work for you. But you can lead a horse to water and all that...

Edited May 17, 2020 by Weezy1973

[CaliforniaGirl]

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Does it really matter what I say on a date because even when I do meet someone I like it doesn't work anyway no matter what I do and say.

Is there a point where someone like me is too compromised to be a viable choice for anyone who has choices of other guys? Do I simply just cut my losses at this point and just accept the only way I can get this right is to pay for a false date at least that way I have some sort of choice whereas now, well its not me doing the picking but them doing the picking.

How would my approach differ between going for a "ok lets have a second date" to ok "lets have fun".

Are there any really honest ladies? For me last year it was just a case of meeting two people I liked a lot and nothing came of either of them. Do women like to be excessively charmed, is being honest bad, I cant fake the fact I have had not relationships so I am not prepared to lie about that when asked, is it SO bad to be honest?

I used to go out at night and I just cant get it honestly I cant, the idea doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it would seem the way to go about things would be to have some drinks, loosen everyone up, talk ever varying amounts of nonsense, flirt with her and well there your job is done. Is there ANY way at all to overcome not being able to do that because I totally CANNOT.

Over time I have lost sight of what people want, maybe I never knew to begin with, maybe my logic was wrong but I do feel ever greater amounts of pressure, I am ever more aware that I don't want single moms but equally I cannot get the 25--32yo either.

 

 

No...I honest to God do not think there is any way to overcome the fact that women want to be flirted with, spoken to with interest and fun, etc. or the things that you say above that you can not not do. I am very sorry. But we aren't robots. Why would we want to be just be selected, then I guess just decked? No warm-up with even "charm" or "flirting"? (???) I don't understand what the alternative is to what you say you can not do, go out, have drinks, show some charm, flirt a little...except a hooker and you asked if that is your viable alternative...yes, it is.

Women are human beings. We don't stand around in boxes waiting to be selected because we're thin, then spoken to grimly for an hour or so before dropping our pants.

Honest to God I do not know how what else to tell you. I'm not even being snotty. There isn't any other alternative to not wanting to flirt plus not wanting to swipe only on women you're attracted to plus not wanting women 25-35 (?) plus not wanting single moms plus not wanting to be at all charming or appealing to anyone. But of course wanting sexy girls because...well...just because you do and they should come to you because they should. No, there's no usual solution. Hire prostitutes.

Edited May 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Realitysux]

Retract comment - Deleted 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Realitysux

[SumGuy]

On 4/26/2020 at 2:42 PM, SumGuy said:

Are not the edited pictures just you shirtless with six-pack abs?

If so, no ones going to know the difference if you are in a coffee shop with your shirt on.  
 

Also you know exactly how to attract women you want in a way that works, get six-pack abs.  It is doable at your age, or is that too much effort to get what you wish?   

I hate to quote myself...but easiest way.

@ZA Dater  You once had a thread where you proved how it was all about looks by telling us you editing picture of yourself to have six pack abs and you got all sorts of interest from women you want.

So I repeat...why not do that?  It is not hypothetical or theory, if you are the disciplined, focused, can do person you say you are then it is a no brainer.  That is your solution, no need to develop social skills to go out with those you are not attracted to. 

You have a solution to your woes, at least getting to have sex, that is right there that you can do on your own, or with a trainer, likely within 6 months with daily effort and diet.  In your picture you appear thin so really you are almost there.

That you seem to resist that and ignored it earlier in this thread when I asked makes me think that you are self sabotaging, afraid to have a real date or have sex, that you get more enjoyment out of bemoaning your fate than in changing it.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am going to give OLD a complete miss. If I never meet anyone then so be it.

Short of making an effort to be the kind of man women want, I think this is a very smart idea.  

[CaliforniaGirl]

57 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

I hate to quote myself...but easiest way.

@ZA Dater  You once had a thread where you proved how it was all about looks by telling us you editing picture of yourself to have six pack abs and you got all sorts of interest from women you want.

So I repeat...why not do that?  It is not hypothetical or theory, if you are the disciplined, focused, can do person you say you are then it is a no brainer.  That is your solution, no need to develop social skills to go out with those you are not attracted to. 

You have a solution to your woes, at least getting to have sex, that is right there that you can do on your own, or with a trainer, likely within 6 months with daily effort and diet.  In your picture you appear thin so really you are almost there.

That you seem to resist that and ignored it earlier in this thread when I asked makes me think that you are self sabotaging, afraid to have a real date or have sex, that you get more enjoyment out of bemoaning your fate than in changing it.

Why not? Want a fit woman = be a fit guy, isn't it worth a shot?