do you just eventually give up?

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure all of that is logical and quite probably true, thank you for admitting lack of experience is a problem.

I am glad OLD does work for someone.

Lack of experience causes problems because it skews your beliefs. You have very little experience yet you seem to think you have all the answers. And clearly you don’t because you’re not successful but the cycle goes on and on because you refuse to change your actions / thoughts / / beliefs.

 

If you acknowledge that you have very little experience, perhaps a bit of humility might be helpful. An attitude of “I really have no clue what I’m doing when it comes to dating and relationships” would actually be a start. You have to admit that you need to break they cycle you’re in if you want to have any success.

[Trail Blazer]

17 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Let me give you a very recent example of why I have the attitude I do.

Bumble this time.

So I get two matches last week, one is a single mom, over weight, all she wants to do is invite me to her place (we are locked down here) for "fun". Zero appeal to me at all, we chat and see if there is any common ground, nothing really and all she wants is fun.

Second match, great pictures, enjoys horse riding, outdoors, works as a vet. Sporty, like to keep fit. We chat for a few hours, very much on the same page in terms of what we like, like me she doesn't party much or drink lots. Likes road trips, family has a farm, the banter was good. It was just nice to match with someone I found attractive for once and could have a conversation with. Day two, no communication, I don't communicate, day three some communication, day four very little communication, I ask how she is. Day 5 and the match is gone. SO we went for a good conversation to unmatched?

So once again what I am left with, the same terrible matches, who

1: The conversation just isn't thee

2: The physical attraction isn't there either.

Honestly tell me that over a period of yeas this would not irritate you? EVERY single time I match with someone I find attractive one of two things happens

1: unmatched even after a good conversation

2: I actually meet them and never hear from them again.

As a logical person I deduce the simple fact: they found someone better.

I'm not going to sugar coat anything because I think you're pretty self-aware and understand the reality of it all.  I've followed all of your threads and they all arrive at the same conclusion; your standards are impossibly high.

You know that you have high standards.  You admit to having high standards.  I don't blame you for having high standards.  

It's not exactly a noble trait to have low standards and to be happy to settle for, not so much less than one deserves, but rather, just high-quality in general.  It will do both parties a disservice in the long run.

However, impossibly high standards is where I'd put your standards at.  I'm sure you feel the same, because, you're seemingly faced with an impossible conundrum of having to lower your standards to a level where you're no longer attracted to the women physically.

I'm sure you understand how Sexual Marketplace Value works.  It's a golden rule for OLD, and, by it's most basic premise, looks are key.  Not too many variables outside of initial attraction will sway the ledger either way.  

Remembering the many hurdles of first getting them to swipe right, then (at least on Bumble) strike up a conversation with you initially, before you can finally try to win them over by presenting aspects of yourself to them.

Take this vet for example.  She sounded like a quality person and one who you saw as ticking all the boxes.

One thing you probably aren't unique with is being able to identify a catch.  The problem there is, that so do most other men.  If she's a catch to you, then she's more than likely going to be a catch to most other men. 

This is reality is even more pronounced when you factor in your very high standards.

So, you were half way there with the vet.  She swiped right on you, which indicated at the very least, a moderate level of physical attraction.

The next component of the puzzle was her messaging you, as to not allow the 24-hour window to expire.  That's fantastic!

You even had a conversation with her for a number of days, before it fizzled and she unmatched you.

You were absolutely right.  She found someone better.  Someone with whom she could avail her SMV to 100 percent of its capacity.

Think of how many other men, other attractive men, who also are more confident and lack personality quirks that you have overtly presented on here to us. 

Did the vet find a man whom she found more physically attractive than you?  Probably.  Did she find a man whose personality/charm or whatever, was more alluring than what you presented?  Also, probably.

Where does that leave you?

It leaves you with one of two choices.  You either find a way to lower your standards.  Or, you give up and walk.

Just personally, I think you need to do just that.  Give the OLD away for a while and go and work on yourself.

It is my opinion that if you can find a way to derive happiness from within, you'll perhaps not have such impossibly high standards when looking for a partner. 

It's as if there's this huge void inside of you, which you're fully cognizant of, which, due to the sheer size of this void, could only be filled by someone who's as close to perfect as humanly possible.  

Just remember; you cannot make anyone else happy if you yourself are not first happy.  Perhaps women can see this, and their biggest concern with you in not what you look like, or even the quirky personality. 

It could well be, that they question the value proposition that you'd bring to their lives.  If they themselves are happy, fulfilled people, they need to feel like you're going to add to the happiness, not subtract from it.

Best of luck, bro! 

I know you're trying... just, maybe, a little too hard!

*shrugs sholders*

 

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

What I see with the horse riding lady is very little communication after the first day, with you really not attempting to initiate that follow up contact, OP. I know that's SOP, don't act needy, etc., make her come to you but when does it ever work?

I'm a woman. Women (many of us) want to be paid attention to. My guess: some other dude on the app didn't play games. He wanted to keep talking to her so he kept contacting her...simple as that. Of course that's what kept her interest. If a guy were just meh about me I'd be going for the other guy, the one who showed interest, the one who was attracted to me (assuming I was initially attracted to both and had my choice). Just a guess, I don't know what actually happened but I don't think that "ignore her, make her come to you, that shocks pretty women and makes them think you're special" advice ever really works for more than three or four minutes. Women don't love being ignored. (This too is a guess, maybe it wasn't a game, but if you were interested, why didn't you follow up?)

If you're stellar, amazing, an exquisite specimen, sure there will be women who are desperate for your every word but that's just true of extreme beauty in general. I think you need to be fun to be around. You talked for hours the first day, it's not like you aren't able to keep a woman engaged. You had plenty to say that first day. Why did you just go kind of lukewarm right after? 

 

 

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

What I see with the horse riding lady is very little communication after the first day, with you really not attempting to initiate that follow up contact, OP. I know that's SOP, don't act needy, etc., make her come to you but when does it ever work?

I'm a woman. Women (many of us) want to be paid attention to. My guess: some other dude on the app didn't play games. He wanted to keep talking to her so he kept contacting her...simple as that. Of course that's what kept her interest. If a guy were just meh about me I'd be going for the other guy, the one who showed interest, the one who was attracted to me (assuming I was initially attracted to both and had my choice). Just a guess, I don't know what actually happened but I don't think that "ignore her, make her come to you, that shocks pretty women and makes them think you're special" advice ever really works for more than three or four minutes. Women don't love being ignored. (This too is a guess, maybe it wasn't a game, but if you were interested, why didn't you follow up?)

If you're stellar, amazing, an exquisite specimen, sure there will be women who are desperate for your every word but that's just true of extreme beauty in general. I think you need to be fun to be around. You talked for hours the first day, it's not like you aren't able to keep a woman engaged. You had plenty to say that first day. Why did you just go kind of lukewarm right after? 

 

 

I think hes just going to come up with more excuses😂.and how it wont work for him down to his looks

Its going to take  a lot of time for him to change the way he thinks and feels. Nothing any of us say here will change that

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Lack of experience causes problems because it skews your beliefs. You have very little experience yet you seem to think you have all the answers. And clearly you don’t because you’re not successful but the cycle goes on and on because you refuse to change your actions / thoughts / / beliefs.

 

If you acknowledge that you have very little experience, perhaps a bit of humility might be helpful. An attitude of “I really have no clue what I’m doing when it comes to dating and relationships” would actually be a start. You have to admit that you need to break they cycle you’re in if you want to have any success.

I can tell you that telling dates I have no idea how to date has them running for the hills...for a while I put that on my profile until people here told me I couldn't be that honest.

 

[basil67]

22 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Because believe me walking around with someone who looks amazing does boost your confidence and I have done that before. So yes its one part of the scenario but its still a good feeling.

Why does it boost your confidence?   

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I can tell you that telling dates I have no idea how to date has them running for the hills...for a while I put that on my profile until people here told me I couldn't be that honest.

 

But it sounds like you did fine that first day when you talked for hours. So why didn't you just do that again? Maybe not for hours but like...an hour?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

But it sounds like you did fine that first day when you talked for hours. So why didn't you just do that again? Maybe not for hours but like...an hour?

She didn't respond she so I just got ghosted.

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I'm not going to sugar coat anything because I think you're pretty self-aware and understand the reality of it all.  I've followed all of your threads and they all arrive at the same conclusion; your standards are impossibly high.

You know that you have high standards.  You admit to having high standards.  I don't blame you for having high standards.  

It's not exactly a noble trait to have low standards and to be happy to settle for, not so much less than one deserves, but rather, just high-quality in general.  It will do both parties a disservice in the long run.

However, impossibly high standards is where I'd put your standards at.  I'm sure you feel the same, because, you're seemingly faced with an impossible conundrum of having to lower your standards to a level where you're no longer attracted to the women physically.

I'm sure you understand how Sexual Marketplace Value works.  It's a golden rule for OLD, and, by it's most basic premise, looks are key.  Not too many variables outside of initial attraction will sway the ledger either way.  

Remembering the many hurdles of first getting them to swipe right, then (at least on Bumble) strike up a conversation with you initially, before you can finally try to win them over by presenting aspects of yourself to them.

Take this vet for example.  She sounded like a quality person and one who you saw as ticking all the boxes.

One thing you probably aren't unique with is being able to identify a catch.  The problem there is, that so do most other men.  If she's a catch to you, then she's more than likely going to be a catch to most other men. 

This is reality is even more pronounced when you factor in your very high standards.

So, you were half way there with the vet.  She swiped right on you, which indicated at the very least, a moderate level of physical attraction.

The next component of the puzzle was her messaging you, as to not allow the 24-hour window to expire.  That's fantastic!

You even had a conversation with her for a number of days, before it fizzled and she unmatched you.

You were absolutely right.  She found someone better.  Someone with whom she could avail her SMV to 100 percent of its capacity.

Think of how many other men, other attractive men, who also are more confident and lack personality quirks that you have overtly presented on here to us. 

Did the vet find a man whom she found more physically attractive than you?  Probably.  Did she find a man whose personality/charm or whatever, was more alluring than what you presented?  Also, probably.

Where does that leave you?

It leaves you with one of two choices.  You either find a way to lower your standards.  Or, you give up and walk.

Just personally, I think you need to do just that.  Give the OLD away for a while and go and work on yourself.

It is my opinion that if you can find a way to derive happiness from within, you'll perhaps not have such impossibly high standards when looking for a partner. 

It's as if there's this huge void inside of you, which you're fully cognizant of, which, due to the sheer size of this void, could only be filled by someone who's as close to perfect as humanly possible.  

Just remember; you cannot make anyone else happy if you yourself are not first happy.  Perhaps women can see this, and their biggest concern with you in not what you look like, or even the quirky personality. 

It could well be, that they question the value proposition that you'd bring to their lives.  If they themselves are happy, fulfilled people, they need to feel like you're going to add to the happiness, not subtract from it.

Best of luck, bro! 

I know you're trying... just, maybe, a little too hard!

*shrugs sholders*

 

 

Well there is a lot of sense in this post. I don't think my standards of  simply wanting to date someone slim and not over hugely overweight are that un realistic. If I had not met people I do find attractive then I would say my standards are impossible but I have met these people.

You definitely make some very correct points here, sure I lower my standards and then what? I simply them have to try find people attractive I don't find attractive. Thank you for admitting that looks are key with OLD.

For the most part your thinking in this post matches my own so at least I am not the only person here who thinks in this particular way.  The bottom line is I cannot compete with the competition so there is nothing to make me a better catch than other guys.

At the moment I am more inclined to simply walk away from the whole thing because what you say is true. There is seemingly no scenario where I can actually succeed.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Why does it boost your confidence?   

When all you know is spending time with people you don't find attractive it is very nice to spend time with someone you do find attractive. For me that's a confidence booster, albeit a false one.

[basil67]

Yeah, but how does someone else's physical appearance make you feel better about yourself?  What self talk is going on here?

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Lack of experience causes problems because it skews your beliefs. You have very little experience yet you seem to think you have all the answers. And clearly you don’t because you’re not successful but the cycle goes on and on because you refuse to change your actions / thoughts / / beliefs.

If you acknowledge that you have very little experience, perhaps a bit of humility might be helpful. An attitude of “I really have no clue what I’m doing when it comes to dating and relationships” would actually be a start. You have to admit that you need to break they cycle you’re in if you want to have any success.

I have admitted this to dates before and rejection followed very quickly, even faster than usual.  In fact I put this in profiles before and well no surprise the same matches. I did once have a date offer to "teach" me but nothing really came of that and she found another guy.

So no I don't think admitting inexperience is very helpful at all. My experience is people is few are really that genuine, lot of will say "oh that's nice" but they aren't bring sincere and here I mean in general.

The cycle will only be broken one day when someone I find attractive actually finds me attractive and is prepared to actually give me a chance but considering I have been trying to find this for 18 years I wont be holding my breath. The other option would be to just pay which I refuse to do, I went down the paid dinner date road twice before and overall I would say they were much better experiences than 90% of my dates in that for once I had some sort of currency and while most of what they told me was probably untrue it was a lot more interesting than most dates. The negative and why I would not do it again is the whole experience is contrived and fake. 

One of the other posters is correct OLD is a fundamental problem because it matches pears and apples but not sure I would do any better with cold approaches either. Its not like I have lots of main stream interests either. I once tried to go to the writing class and I went with an open mind but lost interest after two meet ups.

I have no issue admitting I don't know what I am doing, none at all but the answer isn't to go out with people I don't find attractive because I have tried that with zero level of success.

[basil67]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't think my standards of  simply wanting to date someone slim and not over hugely overweight are that un realistic.

You want a whole lot more than this though.  They must have no kids, be smart, beautiful.....you've described those you want as "high value'.   And there's a whole lot of variance between slim and 'not hugely overweight'.   Now, I'm guessing that hugely overweight means obese.  So what about a 15kgs overweight?  Is that too much?

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Yeah, but how does someone else's physical appearance make you feel better about yourself?  What self talk is going on here?

Well it does yes when they are confident, friendly and nice. I can then bring out my better game and raise my game so yes I do feel more confident around people I find attractive. I need to try be the very best I can, whereas when I go out with someone I don't find attractive, well it doesn't matter what version of me arrives because I am not keen to begin with.

[CaliforniaGirl]

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

She didn't respond she so I just got ghosted.

That's not what you said. You said, "Day two, no communication, I didn't communicate." Then on day three "very little communication." Why not? You went in strong...HOURS of talk...then you follow that up by just literally saying nothing????...then...sorta-talk but not much? That wasn't supposed to confuse and annoy her, tip her off to game playing and send her packing?

Edited May 12, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You want a whole lot more than this though.  They must have no kids, be smart, beautiful.....you've described those you want as "high value'.   And there's a whole lot of variance between slim and 'not hugely overweight'.   Now, I'm guessing that hugely overweight means obese.  So what about a 15kgs overweight?  Is that too much?

Yes there is grey area there in terms of slim but almost ALL matches I get are severely over weight. I am sorry but there is nothing attractive about that to me. Is it really too much to expect to be able to date someone reasonably athletic who goes to gym?

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

That's not what you said. You said, "Day two, no communication, I didn't communicate." Then on day three "very little communication." Why not? You went in strong...HOURS of talk...then nothing????...then...sorta-talk but not much? That wasn't supposed to confuse and annoy her, tip her off to game playing and send her packing?

Well again, I am always told not to "over communicate" if she is interested she will respond, send her a message on the second day being a simple one and see if she responds. Again one person says do this another says do that.....seems honestly easier to do nothing at all.

[an0nym0us123]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes there is grey area there in terms of slim but almost ALL matches I get are severely over weight. I am sorry but there is nothing attractive about that to me. Is it really too much to expect to be able to date someone reasonably athletic who goes to gym?

Are we talking tinder matches or ones generated by a site? Surely swipe left the ones that dont appeal to you is the way to go?

Everyone has there type and i dont think there is anything wrong with wanting someone who looks after them selves physically.

As someone who was heavily into fitness and weighlifting I always felt someone who was overweight and not doing anything about it was not a suitable match for me tbh

[CaliforniaGirl]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well it does yes when they are confident, friendly and nice. I can then bring out my better game and raise my game so yes I do feel more confident around people I find attractive. I need to try be the very best I can, whereas when I go out with someone I don't find attractive, well it doesn't matter what version of me arrives because I am not keen to begin with.

Game. Game. Game. 

Games and strategies and wait this long and do this and that...

Have games and strategies and status seeking worked yet?

You had a woman *right there* who was gorgeous AND loved taking to you, you pulled an "I'll ignore her the next day and make her come to me..."

She didn't and it all got tucked up and she's gone.

Stop. The. Games. OMG so frustrating...there was somebody right there...*right there* and all you needed to do was keep reaching out...You didn't need "game"...You just needed to talk to her, she loved the first night of that...easy peasy...I do not understand...

Edited May 12, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Take this vet for example.  She sounded like a quality person and one who you saw as ticking all the boxes.

One thing you probably aren't unique with is being able to identify a catch.  The problem there is, that so do most other men.  If she's a catch to you, then she's more than likely going to be a catch to most other men. 

...You were absolutely right.  She found someone better.

Things is, she may not have found another "better" man.
"Better" men are as hard to find as "better" women, but what she is probably holding out for is a man who suits her better.
There may have been an Adonis waiting in the wings but probably not.
She took the time to speak to Za Dater, so something must have sparked her interest.
Yes the rejection MAY be about looks but as they had never met and looks were not a dealbreaker at the start, then it was NOT about looks.
It may be about a host of other things.
Maybe she is looking for another vet, a farmer's son,  an animal enthusiast, a person who "gets" her.
It is all very simple to blame "looks" but unless we are talking about the shallow and superficial, then many women prefer some kind of "connection"
I guess she found no connection and went on to look somewhere else.

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Are we talking tinder matches or ones generated by a site? Surely swipe left the ones that dont appeal to you is the way to go?

Everyone has there type and i dont think there is anything wrong with wanting someone who looks after them selves physically.

As someone who was heavily into fitness and weighlifting I always felt someone who was overweight and not doing anything about it was not a suitable match for me tbh

Well what I mostly do on Tinder is Boost so it generates matches for me.

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Game. Game. Game. 

Games and strategies and wait this long and do this and that...

Have games and strategies and status seeking worked yet?

You had a woman *right there* who was gorgeous AND loved taking to you, you pulled an "I'll ignore her the next day and make her come to me..."

She didn't and it all got tucked up and she's gone.

Stop. The. Games. OMG so frustrating...there was somebody right there...*right there* and all you needed to do was keep reaching out...You didn't need "game"...You just needed to talk to her, she loved the first night of that...easy peasy...I do not understand...

She simply ghosted me, ignored me and unmatched me.

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Things is, she may not have found another "better" man.
"Better" men are as hard to find as "better" women, but what she is probably holding out for is a man who suits her better.
There may have been an Adonis waiting in the wings but probably not.
She took the time to speak to Za Dater, so something must have sparked her interest.
Yes the rejection MAY be about looks but as they had never met and looks were not a dealbreaker at the start, then it was NOT about looks.
It may be about a host of other things.
Maybe she is looking for another vet, a farmer's son,  an animal enthusiast, a person who "gets" her.
It is all very simple to blame "looks" but unless we are talking about the shallow and superficial, then many women prefer some kind of "connection"
I guess she found no connection and went on to look somewhere else.

Probably and I regret the 4 hours of sleep I sacrificed chatting to her. She still told me she didn't want player guys but who know really because my "wrong" experience suggests honesty is in very short supply on OLD.

[CaliforniaGirl]

25 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well again, I am always told not to "over communicate" if she is interested she will respond, send her a message on the second day being a simple one and see if she responds. Again one person says do this another says do that.....seems honestly easier to do nothing at all.

Well, so, you did nothing, even though you liked her, because you didn't know which "rules" to follow. Dump the rules and the games! If you like someone give her a call. She might end up not liking you back but if you just ignore her it's pretty much definite she'll walk, right?

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

She still told me she didn't want player guys, but who know really because my "wrong" experience suggests honesty is in very short supply on OLD.

Women looking for a relationship rarely want a "player" guy...
and player guys tend not to admit to being players so not sure why she brought that up... but many women do in their quest for a decent guy. 
Just because she passed on you, does not mean she was looking for a player...
It is not black and white.
You or a player.