do you just eventually give up?

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Well, so, you did nothing, even though you liked her, because you didn't know which "rules" to follow. Dump the rules and the games! If you like someone give her a call. She might end up not liking you back but if you just ignore her it's pretty much definite she'll walk, right?

Rules seem to matter to some and not to others, should try to kiss on first dates according to some, not according to others. From where I sit it seems hardly worth the effort to try and guess what each person wants.

The more thought I put into this the more difficult it becomes.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Women looking for a relationship rarely want a "player" guy...
and player guys tend not to admit to being players so not sure why she brought that up... but many women do in their quest for a decent guy. 
Just because she passed on you, does not mean she was looking for a player...
It is not black and white.
You or a player.
 

Which again I think brings me back to OLD and its issues, not sure you can feel connected to someone chatting via an app. I think people who socially connect are better at dating, that for me is a given based on the type of people I see who can get good dates. To me that and looks work hand in hand, a great looking guy will get cut some slack if he perhaps is not as social because he has one stand out feature.

[CaliforniaGirl]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

She simply ghosted me, ignored me and unmatched me.

No, *you ignored her* the next day and then apparently were just halfhearted the following day (?) and *then* she gave up. How is that her ghosting you? *You gave her mixed signals with your games and she gave up.* 

Edited May 12, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

No, *you ignored her* the next day and then apparently were just halfhearted the following day (?) and *then* she gave up. How is that her ghosting you? *You gave her mixed signals with your games and she gave up.* 

Not what happened but anyway. Would have been nice if she put some effort into communicating but then again I suppose the guy must beg and grovel as always seems to be the way. I may get another decent match next year perhaps.

It probably would not have worked out anyway considering she is 22 and I am 36 later this week.

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Not what happened but anyway. Would have been nice if she put some effort into communicating but then again I suppose the guy must beg and grovel as always seems to be the way. I may get another decent match next year perhaps.

It probably would not have worked out anyway considering she is 22 and I am 36 later this week.

Oh Jesus jumping Christ on a surfboard.

Well, good luck in future. And happy birthday.

Edited May 12, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[an0nym0us123]

18 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

No, *you ignored her* the next day and then apparently were just halfhearted the following day (?) and *then* she gave up. How is that her ghosting you? *You gave her mixed signals with your games and she gave up.* 

I respectfully disagree, many great conversations online come to nothing. Now the op could have initiated the next day since she did on bumble the first time. However the op could have had a busy day and simply not had a chance. For all she know he was just tied down with work or whatever.

Sounds like the next couple of days there was contact but it does not sound as if she was as enthusiastic. And it simply fizzled out.

Now, if the op truly had her attention she would not have given up just because he did not contact her the second day. 

If she was really keen she would have been delighted to hear from him when the did eventually talk.

Imo it was just another online convo late at night that amounts to nothing and it on to the next one.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Imo it was just another online convo late at night that amounts to nothing and it on to the next one.

 

Yip it would seem to be exactly that. I think I'll pass on the next one, my sleep is more valuable.

[Emilie Jolie]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I think people who socially connect are better at dating, that for me is a given based on the type of people I see who can get good dates

You nailed it.

But your issue is that you can't connect socially because you are eaten up by the perceptions around your lack of experience.

You are carrying this lack of experience like a ball on a chain around your neck. You are making an already fairly big stigma into an inescapable issue at the heart of any dating experience you have. That, more than anything, is the turn off of all turn offs. If a guy I'd just met from OLD turned round and said to me 'look, I have zero sexual experience, I don't know how to date, my success rate is so bad I feel lucky you are even talking to me, I don't like going out but I've made an exception for you today' or any variation on this, I don't care how good looking or accomplished he is, I'm fleeing the scene never to return. 

Don't say it, don't show it, don't be ashamed of it, don't dwell on it. Don't even make any obvious allusion to any lack of experience at any level on date one, unless you are supremely confident you can spun a positive, light-hearted twist to it and pull it off with humour.

You are who you are, that is a 36yo guy looking for a relationship. That's the image you need to project, because that's who you are. 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Rules seem to matter to some and not to others, should try to kiss on first dates according to some, not according to others. From where I sit it seems hardly worth the effort to try and guess what each person wants.

The more thought I put into this the more difficult it becomes.

Rules are really for those who struggle and want to rely on a formula to try to guarantee a result.
Successful people think on their feet.
They suss out the lie of the land and act accordingly.
They are flexible and can change course in an instant.

As for the first date kiss, you have to be able to read a woman and be able to know exactly when she wants you to kiss her or when she wouldn't mind you kissing her.
You need to know when she doesn't want kisses too, and whether that is because it is too early or because she is just not interested.
"KISS ON THE FIRST DATE" as a rule is too inflexible.

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Would have been nice if she put some effort into communicating but then again I suppose the guy must beg and grovel as always seems to be the way.

The world doesn't change just for you.
If you put in no effort then many women will put in no effort either.
If you see a glimmer of interest from her then you need to use that and try to make more of it.
If you step back and refuse to "grovel and beg" or wait for her to make a move, then that glimmer will fade and die.
If there is little or no interest from her, then do not bother even trying.
Your interest in her is immaterial, you NEED some interest from her to have any chance at all.

[an0nym0us123]

My opinion is after many years is if a woman is into you she will open her door to you and all you have to do is walk through it. If she needs to be convinced into opening it go find something else to do.

If she is keen, reciprocate. If not dont bother

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Probably and I regret the 4 hours of sleep I sacrificed chatting to her. She still told me she didn't want player guys but who know really because my "wrong" experience suggests honesty is in very short supply on OLD.

Who the hell wants a player. 

See you,'re wrong there 

[miranda561]

49 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yip it would seem to be exactly that. I think I'll pass on the next one, my sleep is more valuable.

Four hours messaging? Why not just cut that short and ask for her number and call her. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by miranda561

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Not what happened but anyway. Would have been nice if she put some effort into communicating but then again I suppose the guy must beg and grovel as always seems to be the way. I may get another decent match next year perhaps.

It probably would not have worked out anyway considering she is 22 and I am 36 later this week.

Communicating with someone.. is not begging and grovelling

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Rules seem to matter to some and not to others, should try to kiss on first dates according to some, not according to others. From where I sit it seems hardly worth the effort to try and guess what each person wants.

The more thought I put into this the more difficult it becomes.

Should try and kiss on first dates? As a rule? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It depends on the person you're with. You have to use your intuition. Some will like that others will not. But just to be on the safe side i wouldnt. 

If i meet a guy the first time and they do that, i dont like it, esentially they're  a stranger still. And i see them as desperate/needy. 

[miranda561]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:57 AM, ZA Dater said:

Because believe me walking around with someone who looks amazing does boost your confidence and I have done that before. So yes its one part of the scenario but its still a good feeling.

Thats not great is it. You should be confident in your own skin with or without someone 

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

You nailed it.

But your issue is that you can't connect socially because you are eaten up by the perceptions around your lack of experience.

You are carrying this lack of experience like a ball on a chain around your neck. You are making an already fairly big stigma into an inescapable issue at the heart of any dating experience you have. That, more than anything, is the turn off of all turn offs. If a guy I'd just met from OLD turned round and said to me 'look, I have zero sexual experience, I don't know how to date, my success rate is so bad I feel lucky you are even talking to me, I don't like going out but I've made an exception for you today' or any variation on this, I don't care how good looking or accomplished he is, I'm fleeing the scene never to return. 

Don't say it, don't show it, don't be ashamed of it, don't dwell on it. Don't even make any obvious allusion to any lack of experience at any level on date one, unless you are supremely confident you can spun a positive, light-hearted twist to it and pull it off with humour.

You are who you are, that is a 36yo guy looking for a relationship. That's the image you need to project, because that's who you are. 

I think that's good advice. But unfortunately his beliefs and lack of experience/negative  experiences are like a ball and chain around his neck. He comes across very defeated.

Women can sense things like that sometimes. 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

You nailed it.

But your issue is that you can't connect socially because you are eaten up by the perceptions around your lack of experience.

You are carrying this lack of experience like a ball on a chain around your neck. You are making an already fairly big stigma into an inescapable issue at the heart of any dating experience you have. That, more than anything, is the turn off of all turn offs. If a guy I'd just met from OLD turned round and said to me 'look, I have zero sexual experience, I don't know how to date, my success rate is so bad I feel lucky you are even talking to me, I don't like going out but I've made an exception for you today' or any variation on this, I don't care how good looking or accomplished he is, I'm fleeing the scene never to return. 

Don't say it, don't show it, don't be ashamed of it, don't dwell on it. Don't even make any obvious allusion to any lack of experience at any level on date one, unless you are supremely confident you can spun a positive, light-hearted twist to it and pull it off with humour.

You are who you are, that is a 36yo guy looking for a relationship. That's the image you need to project, because that's who you are. 

I don't need to tell them, apparently its very obvious based on some comments I have had in the past no matter what I do. There are few different images I have tried to project and few if an work better than any of the others.

OLD is a shop and the less desirable items to hang around on the shelves longer, or the items which don't really conform. Probably on the positive spin I can put on most of these dates is I would never had normally ended up meeting these people ordinarily.

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

I respectfully disagree, many great conversations online come to nothing. Now the op could have initiated the next day since she did on bumble the first time. However the op could have had a busy day and simply not had a chance. For all she know he was just tied down with work or whatever.

Sounds like the next couple of days there was contact but it does not sound as if she was as enthusiastic. And it simply fizzled out.

Now, if the op truly had her attention she would not have given up just because he did not contact her the second day. 

If she was really keen she would have been delighted to hear from him when the did eventually talk.

Imo it was just another online convo late at night that amounts to nothing and it on to the next one.

 

Actually, he said there was no contact that next day, and he explained why, see above. It definitely has wasn't because he was busy. 

[Emilie Jolie]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't need to tell them, apparently its very obvious based on some comments I have had in the past no matter what I do.

Can you please elaborate? You have been on a few first dates, so clearly you are not inexperienced in dating. What sort of comments have you received that made you feel these women can tell about your lack of experience (if you're ok to share)? 

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

My opinion is after many years is if a woman is into you she will open her door to you and all you have to do is walk through it. If she needs to be convinced into opening it go find something else to do.

If she is keen, reciprocate. If not dont bother

This made me smile, really it did. Candid and probably true, that the thing with all these dates I end up having to really work during these dates to try keep everything going unless its one of those rare dates where the conversation flows. I feel that every date needs to be convinced and often feel like I am selling myself like a salesman who sells cars. Selling my attributes, trying to garner any sort of attraction. I have learnt this simply doesn't work. Equally I am very hard to impress so its a stale mate in some respects.

The real problem is if I had had a relatively normal life I would not have ever come into contact with the type of person I have ended up liking. However I guess that's also positive because thanks to OLD I can safely say I have met a huge cross section of people.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Actually, he said there was no contact that next day, and he explained why, see above. It definitely has wasn't because he was busy. 

I was busy but that's beside the point. Would it have been too much trouble for her to simply say "hi". Clearly it was.

This is my point men put in all the effort WHY? What is logical about this, frankly nothing in my opinion. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I was busy but that's beside the point. Would it have been too much trouble for her to simply say "hi". Clearly it was.

This is my point men put in all the effort WHY? What is logical about this, frankly nothing in my opinion. 

Was it too much trouble for *you* to say hi? You seem to empathize not at all with your dates. You have sympathy for yourself, you see yourself as "trying" and "doing work" and you see yourself as "worthy" and so on but you seem to not apply any of these conditions to them, although they too are human beings.

[Weezy1973]

Ok OP you have to accept to truths about dating strangers, whether it be online dating or cold approaches:

 

1. The vast majority of strangers will not be compatible enough to form a relationship of any kind. 
 

2. The kinds of traits that indicate compatibility, show themselves gradually over time. 
 

Put another way, online dating is simply a numbers game. If you’re compatible with say 1 in 100 women, that means you’re going need on average to go on at least 100 first dates to meet someone with that level of compatibility. 
 

Your complaints about online dating are about just the very normal way online dating is. Many false starts. Many dates with people where there’s a lack of interest from one or both parties. You just have accept that if you’re going to date strangers, that not being a match is the rule. Finding a good match is the exception. So you have to play the numbers.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

Ok OP you have to accept to truths about dating strangers, whether it be online dating or cold approaches:

 

1. The vast majority of strangers will not be compatible enough to form a relationship of any kind. 
 

2. The kinds of traits that indicate compatibility, show themselves gradually over time. 
 

Put another way, online dating is simply a numbers game. If you’re compatible with say 1 in 100 women, that means you’re going need on average to go on at least 100 first dates to meet someone with that level of compatibility. 
 

Your complaints about online dating are about just the very normal way online dating is. Many false starts. Many dates with people where there’s a lack of interest from one or both parties. You just have accept that if you’re going to date strangers, that not being a match is the rule. Finding a good match is the exception. So you have to play the numbers.

Quite correct so what other alternative do you propose? The limitations of OLD are exactly as you say but then how would I adapt to not doing OLD?

[Trail Blazer]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well there is a lot of sense in this post. I don't think my standards of  simply wanting to date someone slim and not over hugely overweight are that un realistic. If I had not met people I do find attractive then I would say my standards are impossible but I have met these people.

You definitely make some very correct points here, sure I lower my standards and then what? I simply them have to try find people attractive I don't find attractive. Thank you for admitting that looks are key with OLD.

For the most part your thinking in this post matches my own so at least I am not the only person here who thinks in this particular way.  The bottom line is I cannot compete with the competition so there is nothing to make me a better catch than other guys.

At the moment I am more inclined to simply walk away from the whole thing because what you say is true. There is seemingly no scenario where I can actually succeed.

Looks are a massive thing with OLD.  From both males and females, but especially from females, since they generally have the Lion's share of choice.

What confuses me about you is that you see things in black and white.  There's nothing wrong with wanting a slim girl, but according to you, if she's anything but slim, then she is hugely overweight.

You have as much control with your OLD experience as any woman does.  If your field is to narrow with regards to swiping right, broaden it a little. 

You don't have to swipe right on large women you find unattractive, but at the same time, if all you want is the stunners... well, you'll probably always fall short (as almost every other guy would).

I do feel as though you need to take a break from OLD for a bit.  It doesn't seem like it's healthy or enjoyable for you right now.  Give it away for a few months, work on yourself and then perhaps give it a try when the world is a little more normal again.