do you just eventually give up?

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Does it really matter what I say on a date because even when I do meet someone I like it doesn't work anyway no matter what I do and say.

Is there a point where someone like me is too compromised to be a viable choice for anyone who has choices of other guys? Do I simply just cut my losses at this point and just accept the only way I can get this right is to pay for a false date at least that way I have some sort of choice whereas now, well its not me doing the picking but them doing the picking.

How would my approach differ between going for a "ok lets have a second date" to ok "lets have fun".

Are there any really honest ladies? For me last year it was just a case of meeting two people I liked a lot and nothing came of either of them. Do women like to be excessively charmed, is being honest bad, I cant fake the fact I have had not relationships so I am not prepared to lie about that when asked, is it SO bad to be honest?

I used to go out at night and I just cant get it honestly I cant, the idea doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it would seem the way to go about things would be to have some drinks, loosen everyone up, talk ever varying amounts of nonsense, flirt with her and well there your job is done. Is there ANY way at all to overcome not being able to do that because I totally CANNOT.

Over time I have lost sight of what people want, maybe I never knew to begin with, maybe my logic was wrong but I do feel ever greater amounts of pressure, I am ever more aware that I don't want single moms but equally I cannot get the 25--32yo either.

 

 

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other.  Perhaps, or perhaps not.  The fact that she's on a date with you is reason enough to at least put your best foot forward.  If she's like you, she'll only be on a date with you because she saw some level of attraction.

The reality is is that you could potentially put your best foot forward every time and it still may not matter.  You still may fall short compared to other guys that women you find attractive are also dating.

However, you've got to be in it to win it.  It's like the lottery, but with significantly better odds.  If you don't try, you never have a chance. Except, on this occasion (dating) your odds of finding a compatible person are significantly better than one million to one.

Of course there are honest ladies.  Rejection is honesty as well.  The feedback you're getting is that you need to change things up.  Perhaps join a gym and get a personal trainer once COVID-19 restrictions ease (if they haven't already in your area) and bulk up. 

What have you got to lose?

As for whether or not there's some sort of 'cheat' to avoid flirting/courting or the various social aspects of attracting a woman; the short answer is no.

As @CaliforniaGirl said (I'm paraphrasing here), women aren't built to a specification, placed in a box, put on a shelf where they await to be chosen.  Women are highly receptive to emotional stimulation; how they feel is extremely important and will make or break a successful courtship.

At the end of the day, you've got choices, but to succeed you need to make the necessary changes. 

Whether you're capable or not is an unknown.  If flirting with women in a social setting is a chore for you, then you probably have an almost zero chance of meeting someone that you find attractive, in a real life setting.  If that sort of thing doesn't come naturally, it's hard to mimic that kind of behavior and succeed.

So, I guess that leaves you with just OLD, which, as you've admitted, is most likely your best bet.

Work on yourself (i.e. go to the gym) and work on your profile.  Take pictures with animals.  Upload pictures of yourself with friends, not just selfies.  Women like to see that you have friends and do go out.  Just think of something, anything, that you haven't tried before which you think might help achieve dating success.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other.  Perhaps, or perhaps not.  The fact that she's on a date with you is reason enough to at least put your best foot forward.  If she's like you, she'll only be on a date with you because she saw some level of attraction.

The reality is is that you could potentially put your best foot forward every time and it still may not matter.  You still may fall short compared to other guys that women you find attractive are also dating.

However, you've got to be in it to win it.  It's like the lottery, but with significantly better odds.  If you don't try, you never have a chance. Except, on this occasion (dating) your odds of finding a compatible person are significantly better than one million to one.

Of course there are honest ladies.  Rejection is honesty as well.  The feedback you're getting is that you need to change things up.  Perhaps join a gym and get a personal trainer once COVID-19 restrictions ease (if they haven't already in your area) and bulk up. 

What have you got to lose?

As for whether or not there's some sort of 'cheat' to avoid flirting/courting or the various social aspects of attracting a woman; the short answer is no.

As @CaliforniaGirl said (I'm paraphrasing here), women aren't built to a specification, placed in a box, put on a shelf where they await to be chosen.  Women are highly receptive to emotional stimulation; how they feel is extremely important and will make or break a successful courtship.

At the end of the day, you've got choices, but to succeed you need to make the necessary changes. 

Whether you're capable or not is an unknown.  If flirting with women in a social setting is a chore for you, then you probably have an almost zero chance of meeting someone that you find attractive, in a real life setting.  If that sort of thing doesn't come naturally, it's hard to mimic that kind of behavior and succeed.

So, I guess that leaves you with just OLD, which, as you've admitted, is most likely your best bet.

Work on yourself (i.e. go to the gym) and work on your profile.  Take pictures with animals.  Upload pictures of yourself with friends, not just selfies.  Women like to see that you have friends and do go out.  Just think of something, anything, that you haven't tried before which you think might help achieve dating success.

Thanks for the advice. Don't have friends to take pictures with so that's a definite no on that score. The problem is being unable to exude charm and flirt is like sailing a boat with a hole in the hull you might get onto water but you will sink pretty quickly. So lets assume by some miracle I do get a decent match, then what? Am I just supposed to ignore the fact I cant flirt and then go on the date anyway on the basis that she might give me leeway? Why would she when she has other choices?

That's exactly what I am tying to say OLD doesn't work because its all pre thought out, those guys who can do the cold approach, are fun to be around, can flirt and charm the lady behind the counter at the coffee shop, they don't have this issue as much because at that moment she either says yes or says no, whereas I find a match and well she is still swiping so I don't know how many other options she has, meaning I have one date to try and present a better option and with due respect this is near to impossible for me.

I just always get the overriding sense of being cross shopped with OLD.

I need to try understand what I should actually be hoping to accomplish on a date? What is it really, I go there with all the right intentions but never really get any sort of result.

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, SumGuy said:

I hate to quote myself...but easiest way.

@ZA Dater  You once had a thread where you proved how it was all about looks by telling us you editing picture of yourself to have six pack abs and you got all sorts of interest from women you want.

So I repeat...why not do that?  It is not hypothetical or theory, if you are the disciplined, focused, can do person you say you are then it is a no brainer.  That is your solution, no need to develop social skills to go out with those you are not attracted to. 

You have a solution to your woes, at least getting to have sex, that is right there that you can do on your own, or with a trainer, likely within 6 months with daily effort and diet.  In your picture you appear thin so really you are almost there.

That you seem to resist that and ignored it earlier in this thread when I asked makes me think that you are self sabotaging, afraid to have a real date or have sex, that you get more enjoyment out of bemoaning your fate than in changing it.

I am fit that's exactly the point. The issue with me is my face for whatever reason, there is apparently less of a body issue than a face one. I don't believe being slim and fit is enough because I am told and I have seen charm and flirting go a long way, as does drinking for that matter.

I work out but I work out for me not in the hope that miss so and so might find me attractive because that's putting hope into something which may not happen.

Everyday I work out because I want to feel good and it does focus my mind on the work I need to do.

Over the past 5 years a lot I have done was done with the view of improving my dating luck so to speak but how much of it has really worked? Honestly very little, my matches are the same as they always were, ok the few decent dates I have had were better but the lack of connection is much the same as it always has been. People don't get me to the point where I sometimes wonder why I bother.

Trust me I would have loved to spend time with either the horse riding lady of the political lady, the latter being personality wise quite close to me but instead the people who want to spend time with me I am not interested in. The people I want don't want me, that's the truth to it. Have I had opportunity to have sex, sure, the one date who drank a bottle of wine on her own was wall over me, a co worker was pretty drunk at a office party but neither scenario felt morally right to me.

At the end of the day I just feel that having one good thing wont be enough to make me attractive, here is why I say that. Ok so I get really fit whatever that means and suddenly I get matches. Cool I go out and meet up with them, the conversation part wont work so are you telling me they will overlook that based on pure physical attraction?

 

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

No...I honest to God do not think there is any way to overcome the fact that women want to be flirted with, spoken to with interest and fun, etc. or the things that you say above that you can not not do. I am very sorry. But we aren't robots. Why would we want to be just be selected, then I guess just decked? No warm-up with even "charm" or "flirting"? (???) I don't understand what the alternative is to what you say you can not do, go out, have drinks, show some charm, flirt a little...except a hooker and you asked if that is your viable alternative...yes, it is.

Women are human beings. We don't stand around in boxes waiting to be selected because we're thin, then spoken to grimly for an hour or so before dropping our pants.

Honest to God I do not know how what else to tell you. I'm not even being snotty. There isn't any other alternative to not wanting to flirt plus not wanting to swipe only on women you're attracted to plus not wanting women 25-35 (?) plus not wanting single moms plus not wanting to be at all charming or appealing to anyone. But of course wanting sexy girls because...well...just because you do and they should come to you because they should. No, there's no usual solution. Hire prostitutes.

Noted. Thanks.

[Ollie180]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

[1] Don't have friends to take pictures with so that's a definite no on that score.
 

[2] Am I just supposed to ignore the fact I cant flirt and then go on the date anyway on the basis that she might give me leeway? Why would she when she has other choices?

1) Why? ...Making friends with a guy is not a world away from ‘making friends’ on a date - it’s the same skill set.. only it really isn’t effected by looks! ...Maybe you should just work on building a friend circle first

2) Can’t flirt or won’t flirt..... honestly mate, I don’t know you, but from your posts 90% of your answers appear to be you resisting making any changes in your approach or style whatsoever! So kike I said before.. if your not prepared to change a single factor then you’ll keep getting the same result time after time... that’s just, like, science.

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

At the end of the day I just feel that having one good thing wont be enough to make me attractive, here is why I say that. Ok so I get really fit whatever that means and suddenly I get matches. Cool I go out and meet up with them, the conversation part wont work so are you telling me they will overlook that based on pure physical attraction?

What’s the point in going to school, even if you go and get good grades, and study hard at uni, and manage to get a job you like.. it’ll probably end up that it’s a really long commute and if you can’t overlook that then.. might as well not go to school?

Anyway, it’s your life lad.. but spending it sitting on the sidelines is nothing but a false illusion of safety.. the only thing it really protects you from is living!! If you don’t play you lose by default right...

 

...but I guess that’s the title of your thread, right? “Do you just give up in the end” ...for me? No! Don’t, won’t, never! Got to keep going even when rest of the world thinks you’re beat - that’s my motto!

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

So lets assume by some miracle I do get a decent match, then what? Am I just supposed to ignore the fact I cant flirt and then go on the date anyway on the basis that she might give me leeway? Why would she when she has other choices?

I need to try understand what I should actually be hoping to accomplish on a date? What is it really, I go there with all the right intentions but never really get any sort of result.

You just have to get used to the idea of being yourself and accepting that those that like someone like you will be interested, and those that don’t won’t. If you’re not flirty, women looking for a flirty guy won’t be interested in you. 

 

For the record, I was never flirty either. And I didn’t like flirty women. I was genuinely interested in people though, regardless of whether or not I was  attracted to them. I just found people in general to be interesting. 
 

What you’re trying to accomplish on a date, is to see whether or not you’d be interested in a second date. Is there enough commonality to see her again? Remember you have no control of what she’s thinking or feeling or her preferences so worrying about that is pointless. Be yourself, try to get to know her better, and if there’s something there ask her out on a second date. 

[Trail Blazer]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Thanks for the advice. Don't have friends to take pictures with so that's a definite no on that score. The problem is being unable to exude charm and flirt is like sailing a boat with a hole in the hull you might get onto water but you will sink pretty quickly. So lets assume by some miracle I do get a decent match, then what? Am I just supposed to ignore the fact I cant flirt and then go on the date anyway on the basis that she might give me leeway? Why would she when she has other choices?

I need to try understand what I should actually be hoping to accomplish on a date? What is it really, I go there with all the right intentions but never really get any sort of result.

You don't have friends?  Any friends at all?  As in, zero?  Work colleagues?  Don't you have opportunities to go out?  Surely you could find a way if you involve yourself in some social setting?

So, you get a decent match, then what?  I don't know, dude... you do what you need to do to win her over.  If you get to the point where you go on a date, she's obviously somewhat attracted to you.

What's your biggest hang up when going on a first date with someone you find attractive?  Do you get nervous in general?  Or do you worry that even if you nail the small talk, she just won't like you anyway?

At the end of the day, looks will get you the first date.  Who you are will get you the rest of the dates.  If you get a decent date, then looks aren't your problem.

I don't really know what else to say, that I haven't already said before.  Treat her like a human, like a woman... be caring and attentive but at the same time, be confident and demonstrate that you're your own man.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

That's exactly what I am tying to say OLD doesn't work because its all pre thought out, those guys who can do the cold approach, are fun to be around, can flirt and charm the lady behind the counter at the coffee shop, they don't have this issue as much because at that moment she either says yes or says no, whereas I find a match and well she is still swiping so I don't know how many other options she has, meaning I have one date to try and present a better option and with due respect this is near to impossible for me.

I just always get the overriding sense of being cross shopped with OLD.

Again, what do you think your biggest weakness is?  When you're sitting across the table from a woman you've just scored a date with from Bumble, what do you think she's thinking?

You like her, that's why you're there.  She likes you, obviously, as otherwise she wouldn't waste her time when there's so many other options out there, right?  Right!  So, what do you think she's wanting to see from you?

You need to start believing in yourself that you have what it takes to be what a woman wants.  Seize the opportunity that's in front of you.  Talk to her, be interested in her and demonstrate to her the value you can bring to her life.

That's what it takes to succeed, in my opinion.  I just can't really tell you how to successfully execute it in the moment.  Humans are dynamic, and the introduction manual for women doesn't really cut it. 🤷‍♂️

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

You don't have friends?  Any friends at all?  As in, zero?  Work colleagues?  Don't you have opportunities to go out?  Surely you could find a way if you involve yourself in some social setting?

So, you get a decent match, then what?  I don't know, dude... you do what you need to do to win her over.  If you get to the point where you go on a date, she's obviously somewhat attracted to you.

What's your biggest hang up when going on a first date with someone you find attractive?  Do you get nervous in general?  Or do you worry that even if you nail the small talk, she just won't like you anyway?

At the end of the day, looks will get you the first date.  Who you are will get you the rest of the dates.  If you get a decent date, then looks aren't your problem.

I don't really know what else to say, that I haven't already said before.  Treat her like a human, like a woman... be caring and attentive but at the same time, be confident and demonstrate that you're your own man.

Again, what do you think your biggest weakness is?  When you're sitting across the table from a woman you've just scored a date with from Bumble, what do you think she's thinking?

You like her, that's why you're there.  She likes you, obviously, as otherwise she wouldn't waste her time when there's so many other options out there, right?  Right!  So, what do you think she's wanting to see from you?

You need to start believing in yourself that you have what it takes to be what a woman wants.  Seize the opportunity that's in front of you.  Talk to her, be interested in her and demonstrate to her the value you can bring to her life.

That's what it takes to succeed, in my opinion.  I just can't really tell you how to successfully execute it in the moment.  Humans are dynamic, and the introduction manual for women doesn't really cut it. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks for the advice.

No,  I don't really go out anymore no, besides on events I arrange and then again its a different set of people to me but I get along well with them, older successful people and its great for business to learn from successful people because each has a different story and way of thinking.

I'd have to try get my mind back in the game but that becomes harder because I keep asking myself why I keep going back for more of the same inevitable disappointment.  Frankly that's the biggest problem I don't believe that and objectively it would seem I am correct in that assertion.

The way I see it I need: looks to get me a date, then I need to somehow not be awkward, somehow not be shy, somehow thing about each and every thing I say lest I say the wrong thing, offer up little in opinion lest I offend, try make her laugh and try make her smile.

My question is this, am I better off just treating dates like business meetings because I am reasonably good at that. This has never worked before though so I stopped doing it.

Just not feeling especially motivated to date. Like what do I really get out of it?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

1) Why? ...Making friends with a guy is not a world away from ‘making friends’ on a date - it’s the same skill set.. only it really isn’t effected by looks! ...Maybe you should just work on building a friend circle first

2) Can’t flirt or won’t flirt..... honestly mate, I don’t know you, but from your posts 90% of your answers appear to be you resisting making any changes in your approach or style whatsoever! So kike I said before.. if your not prepared to change a single factor then you’ll keep getting the same result time after time... that’s just, like, science.

What’s the point in going to school, even if you go and get good grades, and study hard at uni, and manage to get a job you like.. it’ll probably end up that it’s a really long commute and if you can’t overlook that then.. might as well not go to school?

Anyway, it’s your life lad.. but spending it sitting on the sidelines is nothing but a false illusion of safety.. the only thing it really protects you from is living!! If you don’t play you lose by default right...

 

...but I guess that’s the title of your thread, right? “Do you just give up in the end” ...for me? No! Don’t, won’t, never! Got to keep going even when rest of the world thinks you’re beat - that’s my motto!

Would you not find a 36yo guy with very few friends odd? I truthfully don't understand how to flirt, I have read up over and over again its really at odds with how I communicate, I use few word and everything is business like.

I ordinarily don't give up but again not seeing much of an upside here based on the person I am and what I have to offer. And yes I haven't really lived you are right and I regret that but I cant really change it now, I regret not making more of my 20's but then again I wasn't that fun guy then either so I got the kicking I probably deserved when it came to potential dates.

[Trail Blazer]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My question is this, am I better off just treating dates like business meetings because I am reasonably good at that. This has never worked before though so I stopped doing it.

Just not feeling especially motivated to date. Like what do I really get out of it?

I've never treated a date like a business meeting because... it's not a business meeting!  It's a date, and I treat it accordingly!

What do you get out of a date?  You get an opportunity from it, however what you get out of it is entirely dependent upon what you put into it.

[Ollie180]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Would you not find a 36yo guy with very few friends odd?

If I met a girl my age and she didn’t have many friends, I’d take it as a big red flag ....but that’s within your power to change - it just takes effort!

(or not, you don’t HAVE to have friends - your life. But a lot of folks will find the lack of these relationships a bit disconcerting - humans being a social species)

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I truthfully don't understand how to flirt, I have read up over and over again its really at odds with how I communicate, I use few word and everything is business like.

You say ‘truthfully’ ...but is this true? Or is what you’re really saying “I am X. X doesn’t equal flirting”.

youve just written it’s at odds with how you communicate... but mate the world isn’t going to bed to suit you - it’s up to you whether you want to bend to suit the world!!

Its a choice you have! Make a choice to laugh more, smile more. Make a choice to touch her arm. Make a choice to use more words than needed, and not be ‘business like’.. because social and business are different”

Do you even want a conversation about how to flirt? Or have you already got your mind made up firmly that it’s something you will not do, because you’re not prepared to bend, or make a change?

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

And yes I haven't really lived you are right and I regret that but I cant really change it now, I regret not making more of my 20's but then again I wasn't that fun guy then either so I got the kicking I probably deserved when it came to potential dates.

And when your 40 you’ll say you should have lived when you were 30. And when your 50 you’ll say the time to change was in your 40’s. And when your 60 you’ll say you wasted your 50’s...and so on and so on and so on and so on!!!

Live life NOW! The past is a memory and the future is a concept! Now is the time for action! Remember you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take!

[Trail Blazer]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Would you not find a 36yo guy with very few friends odd? I truthfully don't understand how to flirt, I have read up over and over again its really at odds with how I communicate, I use few word and everything is business like.

I ordinarily don't give up but again not seeing much of an upside here based on the person I am and what I have to offer. And yes I haven't really lived you are right and I regret that but I cant really change it now, I regret not making more of my 20's but then again I wasn't that fun guy then either so I got the kicking I probably deserved when it came to potential dates.

Okay, forget trying to learn how to flirt.  I suggest that you at least try to lean in whilst she's talking, smile, always smile... but not awkwardly.  When she's talking, smile because she's giving you the opportunity to listen and respond.  Be happy aboug that... and ebrace it!

In terms of what you have to offer, do you see yourself as being attracted to your objectively physical equal?

If you're a 'five' on the scale, are you only attracted to girls who are seven and up?

It really would be interesting to know what the girls look like who you're swiping left to.  Sure, objectively unattractive ones aside, I'd be curious to see what you, subjectively find unattractive.

At the end of the day, it's fine to have high standards.  I would never advocate for dating someone you find unattractive.  We've been down this path before.  All I'd like to know is whether you're really just pining to punch above your weight.

If all you want is women out of your league, we could end the thread right now by saying that you should just give up right now.  Only the filthy rich, the almighty powerful, or the men with some amazing personal qualities and serious game land stunners when they themselves are below average in looks/physical appearance.

[ZA Dater]

14 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I've never treated a date like a business meeting because... it's not a business meeting!  It's a date, and I treat it accordingly!

What do you get out of a date?  You get an opportunity from it, however what you get out of it is entirely dependent upon what you put into it.

Which just makes it even worse when I do put in effort and I may as well sat at home doing projections and forecasts and found that more rewarding. Lot of me thinks the friend arrangement is about is best I can hope to attain in that I get along well with her and the red flags I have done bother her in the sense of the projects we work on the things we do, socially yeah I wont get a look in with her there but again I am using the half full analogy, something I like is a bit better than nothing at all.

 

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Okay, forget trying to learn how to flirt.  I suggest that you at least try to lean in whilst she's talking, smile, always smile... but not awkwardly.  When she's talking, smile because she's giving you the opportunity to listen and respond.  Be happy aboug that... and ebrace it!

In terms of what you have to offer, do you see yourself as being attracted to your objectively physical equal?

If you're a 'five' on the scale, are you only attracted to girls who are seven and up?

It really would be interesting to know what the girls look like who you're swiping left to.  Sure, objectively unattractive ones aside, I'd be curious to see what you, subjectively find unattractive.

At the end of the day, it's fine to have high standards.  I would never advocate for dating someone you find unattractive.  We've been down this path before.  All I'd like to know is whether you're really just pining to punch above your weight.

If all you want is women out of your league, we could end the thread right now by saying that you should just give up right now.  Only the filthy rich, the almighty powerful, or the men with some amazing personal qualities and serious game land stunners when they themselves are below average in looks/physical appearance.

My ONLY real criteria physically not hugely over weight and a nice face, I'd prefer the typical runner, yoga type physique but so does every guy on this planet apparently! What I can find attractive can be very unremarkable to my friend who chases stunners an can get them because he is the bold part plus being fit. He is older and can date 23yo's so yes go figure on that one.

Look I do like a pretty face, honestly its the first thing I notice usually.

I am slim, fairly athletic and a long way from overweight, one of things I enjoy most is the solitude of cycling and the power of bodysurfing a great wave.

Every date I go out and try be the best, sure if she is amazing I put that 5% extra effort in but those are very rare dates for me to find. If you like I'll pm you the one and you can look her up on facebook.

[Trail Blazer]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which just makes it even worse when I do put in effort and I may as well sat at home doing projections and forecasts and found that more rewarding. Lot of me thinks the friend arrangement is about is best I can hope to attain in that I get along well with her and the red flags I have done bother her in the sense of the projects we work on the things we do, socially yeah I wont get a look in with her there but again I am using the half full analogy, something I like is a bit better than nothing at all.

 

Are you mixing things up at all, or just doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result?  Yes, Einstein would say you're the definition of insane... at least in this context!

I'm unsure of this dynamic you speak of.  All I will say is, attain as many female friends as possible!  Females have a lot of female friends!  Do you see where I'm going with this!?

[Trail Blazer]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My ONLY real criteria physically not hugely over weight and a nice face, I'd prefer the typical runner, yoga type physique but so does every guy on this planet apparently! What I can find attractive can be very unremarkable to my friend who chases stunners an can get them because he is the bold part plus being fit. He is older and can date 23yo's so yes go figure on that one.

Look I do like a pretty face, honestly its the first thing I notice usually.

I am slim, fairly athletic and a long way from overweight, one of things I enjoy most is the solitude of cycling and the power of bodysurfing a great wave.

Every date I go out and try be the best, sure if she is amazing I put that 5% extra effort in but those are very rare dates for me to find. If you like I'll pm you the one and you can look her up on facebook.

That's all well and good, but you didn't really answer my question.  Do you think you're only going after girls who are out of your league in an objectively physical/looks sense?

[SumGuy]

@ZA Dater

You are avoiding the question or has the story changed?  You once posted you put up "fake" or "doctored" photos and you got a lot of attention from the women you liked.  When some were a bit shocked that you were using someone else's photos I recall you posted it was still your face and you just added in some abs.  The key being it was still your face.

Now you say it is your face, how can that be so based on what you said before?   

Edited May 18, 2020 by SumGuy

[Emilie Jolie]

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Every date I go out and try be the best, sure if she is amazing I put that 5% extra effort in but those are very rare dates for me to find.

 

On 5/17/2020 at 4:09 PM, ZA Dater said:

Why I don't find miss out of shape attractive so why bother putting in any real effort, I don't want to sleep with her so arguably I shouldn't be going on date with her at all but even I need some interaction.

These are conflicting. Only one of these statements are true. Not trying to catch you out but you won't get relevant advice if you keep changing your approach to suit the image you want to give...

You need to find a 36yo guy from South Africa with the exact same backstory and circumstances, who did manage to land the girl of his dreams by magic🤷‍♀️.

There is no magic one size fits all to dating, no secret to it and you've already identified what your issues are (with added bitterness). You're not comfortable with any aspect of dating, online or on 3D, so this is what you need to fix, preferably with the help of a specialised clinician. 

 

47 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

If you like I'll pm you the one and you can look her up on facebook.

🤦‍♀️. Please don't do this...

[SumGuy]

41 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Now you say it is your face, how can that be so based on what you said before?   

@ZA Dater  Meant to say now you are saying it is your face which is the issue dating, how can that be based on what you said before around the "fake" profile.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

That's all well and good, but you didn't really answer my question.  Do you think you're only going after girls who are out of your league in an objectively physical/looks sense?

Well what is my league?

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, SumGuy said:

@ZA Dater

You are avoiding the question or has the story changed?  You once posted you put up "fake" or "doctored" photos and you got a lot of attention from the women you liked.  When some were a bit shocked that you were using someone else's photos I recall you posted it was still your face and you just added in some abs.  The key being it was still your face.

Now you say it is your face, how can that be so based on what you said before?   

Nope it was a edited picture. I have had good conversation with attractive people to me but when they see face pictures they generally block me. That's being kind.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Are you mixing things up at all, or just doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result?  Yes, Einstein would say you're the definition of insane... at least in this context!

I'm unsure of this dynamic you speak of.  All I will say is, attain as many female friends as possible!  Females have a lot of female friends!  Do you see where I'm going with this!?

Yes, I have learnt some body language is better than other, I project more confidence, I smile as often as I can, try and laugh at myself, try to create a light hearted atmosphere, sometimes joke about what food I am going to eat if its a dinner date, try not to be too serious. I try project the good parts of me, the things I enjoy, the things I am passionate about.

So its not like I sit there in a dour mood. I do try and if nothing else I find I am not too bad at doing this and the awkwardness is less and with some people I can keep it bay completely. Eye contact is important so I try and keep that as much as possible.

People keep telling me to find friends, where exactly? I have tried to befriend some of these dates but got nowhere with too, which I guess is telling on it own.

Ultimately I have decided to just give it a rest, work on other things which I do enjoy the thing is I will always wonder....what if? I enjoy my hobbies far more than dating, the solitude of cycling, sitting with car club friends at breakfast after a morning drive, the restfulness of the ocean.

I can sit and pick myself apart and for what ends? I just end up feeling hopeless and that's not a good place to be so I can choose to make myself believe I could date someone I find attractive. Yes, it sounds pathetic but its better than living with feeling of being desired by nobody I truly find attractive.

 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

 

These are conflicting. Only one of these statements are true. Not trying to catch you out but you won't get relevant advice if you keep changing your approach to suit the image you want to give...

You need to find a 36yo guy from South Africa with the exact same backstory and circumstances, who did manage to land the girl of his dreams by magic🤷‍♀️.

There is no magic one size fits all to dating, no secret to it and you've already identified what your issues are (with added bitterness). You're not comfortable with any aspect of dating, online or on 3D, so this is what you need to fix, preferably with the help of a specialised clinician. 

 

🤦‍♀️. Please don't do this...

Ironically a friend of mine is the same as me, he has just give up on dating completely.

Unfortunately you are right there isn't one size that fits all which I guess for someone analytical like me is frustrating but you do probably make a good point, perhaps I am inflexible and maybe it was a mistake to be exposed to great people because they will forever be the benchmark.

Ironically I would probably go on a date with a therapist and I did once before, quite entertaining it was too and there was a real intellectual challenge, unfortunately there was just no attraction from her side.

One of the suggestions I like best is to work out and do so to clear my mind and focus. I already have arms which could pass for tree trunks and I doing a lot of core work too. What I actually need to try and do is find enough confidence to actually try speak to the attractive lady at the lunch spot and see what happens, instead of admitting defeat just try for no other reason than trying, perhaps try some banter which I can do from time to time BUT I need to be careful not do negative banter which I tend to some of the time.

Maybe the idea is to not think any further than that one conversation, throw as much positivity into it as I can, if she is unfriendly then so be it. I have found the rare times when I have done this I do get some degree of confidence boost.

[Emilie Jolie]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Maybe the idea is to not think any further than that one conversation, throw as much positivity into it as I can, if she is unfriendly then so be it. I have found the rare times when I have done this I do get some degree of confidence boost.

That is exactly the idea. No pressure, no thinking in terms of gaining or losing anything, just getting to meet new people and see where it goes, even if it'll likely go nowhere.

Sure, go talk to that lady. What's the worst that could happen? 

[Trail Blazer]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well what is my league?

That's for you to determine.