Possible Reputation Problem

[WulfeOfLegend]

Asking for advice online is new for me, I'm very capable of self reflection and it's rare for me to not identity my own faults (whether or not I fix them is a whole different story).  I've found myself totally perplexed with my current situation, however.  So to start, I'm quite attractive.  I was blessed with many natural gifts:  looks, athletic ability, intelligence, and emotional intelligence, to name some of what I believe should give me an edge in dating.  I've also been through a lot of difficult situations with no one to turn to and I got through by finding the confidence and motivation to improve myself.  I also believe that despite my many natural gifts I'm also a deeply flawed person and I avoid making others feel inferior.  I enjoy having conversations with individuals that most people react to with judgement and condemnation.  There is a story behind all of these people and no one is perfect.  Honestly, I've conditioned myself to be humble in all things to a point where even talking about myself online seems dangerously close to bragging, this is not my intention.

So, on to my background.  I avoided dating for years because I was one of those people that expects a good thing should just fall into his lap.  I was young, inexperienced, and masking a lack of self esteem with layers of fragile ego.  I experienced a number of professional and personal setbacks that completely shook me to the core and forced me to come to terms with who I really was.  I had the strength to carry myself through them all but I finally learned that I needed someone to share my life with.  At one of my lowest times, I met a woman who seemed to be everything I was not.  She was brash, outgoing, and didn't seem to get hung up on all the details.  She came to my house, initiated contact, and convinced me to sleep with her.  We both ended up head over heals, I got the human interaction and approval I needed at the time and she got someone to carry her through a lot of family issues she was going through (really messed up stuff).  We both saved each other.  I learned that I was at my best when I had someone to look out for other than myself.  I treated her with utmost respect and got her out of her terrible situation (she was facing months of jail time for bulls*** charges due to her mother pinning her own drug use on her).  She, for the first time, had a person in her life who put her before themselves.  She had a number of brain disorders from her mother using heroine during pregnancy and her stressful life had only made these worse.  She stopped having seizures altogether after moving in with me.  Despite all of this, our relationship did not end well.  She was afraid I would turn on her like everyone else in her life had, so she couldn't find it in herself to totally open up to me and bottled up frustration from things we disagreed on, things I didn't even know we disagreed on.  Eventually (she told me this later, after it was over) she was hanging out with a man who she wanted to cheat on me with but felt guilty about it and decided to just leave me while I was at work and move to another state.  A friend told her she should talk to me first so she waited for me to get off of work and told me she needed some space and that she was going to go stay with her mom.  I told her that if she needed space, I could go stay with one of my friends or with my parents and she could have our home to herself so that she wasn't leaving her job suddenly and damaging her career.  Apparently, she was so desperate to leave me and any reminder of me behind that none of this was acceptable.  So she went to live with her abusive mother and her boyfriend, who had raped her many times as a child.  All of this really hurt but over the next year I came to understand just how much I had grown.  I accepted her actions as being driven by her insecurities and that she really had done her best to open up to me, even if she failed.

Now, for my dilemma.  During the last 2 years, I've really put myself out there with no luck.  No women swipe right on me on any dating apps, no women reply to me on social media, and god help me if I try to approach a woman in person and start a conversation.  Again, I get ignored but in these cases I get to see the horrified look or eye roll before they walk away.  I just can't see how I could be so repellent that I can't even get a right swipe (not 1 in 2 years!).  Like I said, I'm attractive.  It's not even my own skewed opinion, people in my social groups comment on my good looks on a regular basis.  This includes women (only attached ones, though).  It would seem that I should be at least able to get an accidental like on a dating app or a polite smile and empty conversation from women in the real world.  Astoundingly, even these trivial things seem to be out of my reach.  I really didn't think this could be it but I've run out of ideas now, could it be that my ex fiance totally ruined my reputation?  Right after leaving me, she went to my place of work and told everyone that I tried to punch her for leaving (100% not true).  She pretty much lived on social media and most of the people we both knew have told me they unfriended her on Facebook because they couldn't stand how much she started trash talking our town and everyone in it, is it possible every woman I ever meet knew her and has an preconceived opinion of me?  It seems unlikely but I just can't think of why else all single women aged 20-30 have treated me like the plague for two years.

[basil67]

Welcome to the board WulfeofLegend, a couple of questions before I answer:   What does your social life look like?   How old are you?  Are you working (or at least, were you working up until COVID)?   When's the last time you asked your barber for advice on a new haircut?

[WulfeOfLegend]

I'm 27 and I've been lower management at the only grocery store in my area for 8 years.  Due to my job being essential, I'm still working full time.  I'm highly regarded by my coworkers and customers.  As for my social life, I'm not especially outgoing and I know this doesn't do me any favors.  I pretty much hang out with my group of friends who do the same.  I want more of a social life and since I understand the correlation between social interactions and attractiveness I've also tried to expand my social circle with mixed success.  I've renewed contact with high school classmates and I've hung out with some new people but didn't really click with them.  I have one very good friend who is less social than me.  He and I went on a vacation a few months ago to San Diego and while we were out of town a number of women approached me to flirt and compliment my hair.  Never in my hometown does this happen, at least not since my ex.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I'd really have to hear your ex's story/version of things before I could begin to offer advice.  There are two sides to every story and I suspect your version of events is skewed by your own perception of yourself (which is skewed by your perception of all of the hardships in your life you have heroically overcome).  I'm not at all calling you dishonest; just saying you seem to be perhaps not seeing something that is probably really obvious to others in your life.

[preraph]

There is no way that she could have ruined your reputation with the people online on dating sites. She may have said something to some local people. 

 

have you just checked to make sure there's no outstanding warrants on you or something like that?

 

I am with basil on this. I'm thinking maybe you haven't updated your look in a little while. If you're still dressing the same as you were seven years ago, go to a department store men's department and ask one of the senior clerks to help you pick out a couple of updated outfits. Then go someplace and get your hair updated. 

online there could be some problem with you maybe sharing too much information. You are very introspective as am I, and sometimes will over share, which comes across to a lot of people as self-absorption. So just think about that. 

Otherwise you may just be having a slow period. Also these people who have told you you're good looking, was that currently or some years ago? Some people don't recognize changes in themselves. And also just to cover that base online, be sure you're using the most current photographs. 

 

Whatever it is you'll be okay.

[WulfeOfLegend]

@CautiouslyOptimistic  I agree, and while I've done my best to be impartial in my retelling it is reasonable to assume I haven't been totally successful.  Her assessment of me changed by the day (I suspect to get more attention on social media) but I'll go with the worst possible picture of me that she painted.  According to her, I didn't care at all for what she wanted in our relationship.  We only did what I wanted, and not what she wanted.  She was afraid I'd leave her at a moment's notice if she got pregnant.  She believed I wanted a mother rather than a wife.  She didn't think I appreciated any of what she did around the house and didn't think I contributed at all.  According to her the #1 worst thing was that I had nothing nice to say to her mother.  Some of these I believe can be tied back to insecurities from her upbringing, some seem to have an element of truth to them, and some are from my point of view a complete fabrication.  But I'm not here to determine why our relationship didn't work and her story is especially relevant to the question of my reputation so there it is.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

2 minutes ago, WulfeOfLegend said:

@CautiouslyOptimistic  I agree, and while I've done my best to be impartial in my retelling it is reasonable to assume I haven't been totally successful.  Her assessment of me changed by the day (I suspect to get more attention on social media) but I'll go with the worst possible picture of me that she painted.  According to her, I didn't care at all for what she wanted in our relationship.  We only did what I wanted, and not what she wanted.  She was afraid I'd leave her at a moment's notice if she got pregnant.  She believed I wanted a mother rather than a wife.  She didn't think I appreciated any of what she did around the house and didn't think I contributed at all.  According to her the #1 worst thing was that I had nothing nice to say to her mother.  Some of these I believe can be tied back to insecurities from her upbringing, some seem to have an element of truth to them, and some are from my point of view a complete fabrication.  But I'm not here to determine why our relationship didn't work and her story is especially relevant to the question of my reputation so there it is.

Thank you for your transparency!

Can you share more about what you mean about her seeking attention on social media?  Not sure what that means and how it impacted your relationship.  I'm 20 years older than you are so bear with me :).

Would you have left her if she got pregnant? (Were you guys using protection?)  Why would she think this?

Were you disrespectful to her mother?

Did you expect her to mother you? Did you treat her as an equal or did you expect to be taken care of?  

What things are fabrications?

All of these things could tie into what she's telling others about you. Only you know what is true and what is not.

[WulfeOfLegend]

@preraph  No outstanding warrants.  My look changes frequently, I just hate having the same boring style as everyone else.  So compliments on my style and looks are a nearly daily thing.  The last couple months I've grown a beard because I've always wanted to but my ex wouldn't let me and after she left I wanted to be attractive.  A few months ago I found out a woman I see and talk to frequently and have been drawn to for some time had become single so I told her that I found her attractive and that I'd love to hang out or talk sometime if she was up to it.  She just walked away with an annoyed expression and has barely spoken a word since.  This was the last straw for me, and a couple months ago I decided to grow a beard because I wanted to and clearly shaving hadn't gotten me anywhere.  So right now, at this moment, I have a large beard.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Just now, WulfeOfLegend said:

 A few months ago I found out a woman I see and talk to frequently and have been drawn to for some time had become single so I told her that I found her attractive and that I'd love to hang out or talk sometime if she was up to it.  She just walked away with an annoyed expression and has barely spoken a word since. 

There has to be more to this story than this.  Unless she's a really crappy person (and in that case why would you want to date her?) why would she do something like this? What efforts did you make to try to find out why her reaction to you was so negative and extreme?

[WulfeOfLegend]

The only thing I can think of with that story is that her breakup may have been very recent and I touched a nerve, I don't know when it happened.  But that's not an isolated incident.  That's what has me at a loss.  I just can't think of any reason I would experience this behavior.  I just can't imagine not saying anything to someone at all.

[WulfeOfLegend]

@CautiouslyOptimistic  As to your earlier question:

Social media is quite the rabbit hole.  My ex spent most of her free time on Facebook finding funny memes and reposting them.  It's a kind of addiction.  Basically when others 'like' your post or reply to one of your comments you get a small amount of satisfaction and some people can't help but chase that feeling.  If you've ever seen someone not able to quit texting, it's the exact same thing.  So in the case of exaggerating her story, that was how she would get more attention.

Sorry, I'll address the rest in a bit, I have to go take care of something.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

1 minute ago, WulfeOfLegend said:

So in the case of exaggerating her story, that was how she would get more attention.

 

So she was posting your personal relationship information on social media?

[WulfeOfLegend]

Yes.  She didn't have the courage to tell me she was done with me and was telling me she wanted to try to fix things.  Meanwhile, she was posting a lot of stuff about me on Facebook.  I had valued her opinion so highly that I accepted what she said as unconditionally true and really felt like a terrible person.  It wasn't until I found out that she moved in with her now husband the day after she left me that I stepped back and really started thinking.  I had already known that I didn't do most of the things she said but I had thought I might have done something to make her feel like she needed to say them, and had blamed myself anyway.  She continued trash talking me on Facebook until I'd finally had it.  She had said some really filthy, terrible things to me via text that contradicted her stories.  I replied to a couple of her posts with screenshots of those messages and sent her a private message telling her I'd post the ones where she talked trash about her friends and family (I wanted to leave them out of it if I could get her to back off) if she ever talked about me again.  She hasn't.

[healing light]

I'm sorry to hear you've been through all this. I relate to parts of what you've said about yourself. Your ex sounds mentally unstable from all the abuse and self-sabotaged when she came face-to-face with someone who wanted to love her. You sound like you've wanted to rescue her, consciously or subconsciously, which unfortunately can lead to a lot of drama in your life if you continue to seek out women who haven't dealt with their demons. 

That being said, if you are from a small town, I would not be surprised if she did have some effect on your reputation. Online is a greater stretch... Obviously you do have appeal to people in different cities, so that's good. What kind of styles do you adopt? You said you're always changing it--do you do wild colors or anything like that which might have some taking you less seriously? I'm not saying you should dampen your expression of yourself, just if whatever you adopt is far out of the norm it may appeal to a different kind of crowd than the one you're approaching. 

Offhand, most of my female friends and I aren't big beard fans. Sometimes I've been surprised at how much more attractive men are without them (especially if they are large and unruly), but I understand that I'm not representative of all women and wouldn't want to impose my opinion on you in that way. Different strokes for different folks.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

5 minutes ago, WulfeOfLegend said:

Yes.  She didn't have the courage to tell me she was done with me and was telling me she wanted to try to fix things.  Meanwhile, she was posting a lot of stuff about me on Facebook.  I had valued her opinion so highly that I accepted what she said as unconditionally true and really felt like a terrible person.  It wasn't until I found out that she moved in with her now husband the day after she left me that I stepped back and really started thinking.  I had already known that I didn't do most of the things she said but I had thought I might have done something to make her feel like she needed to say them, and had blamed myself anyway.  She continued trash talking me on Facebook until I'd finally had it.  She had said some really filthy, terrible things to me via text that contradicted her stories.  I replied to a couple of her posts with screenshots of those messages and set her a private message telling her I'd post the ones where she talked trash about her friends and family (I wanted to leave them out of it if I could get her to back off) if she ever talked about me again.  She hasn't.

So she's married now and you're blackmailing her?

[Ellener]

Your ex was probably just acting out her own problems. You maybe think about her and talk about her too much? That would give a 'vibe' and put other people off even if they think you're cute. Maybe go to a counsellor and put this part of your life well and truly behind you, that's what I would do.

[WulfeOfLegend]

@CautiouslyOptimistic  She wasn't married yet, when I took that action.  The real question was she was living with that guy and was still talking about me?  But her marital status has nothing to do with it anyway.  She was going out of the way to drag me down and I put an end to it on the terms she had established were not off limits.  Her husband (boyfriend then) did contact me about that and warned me to leave her alone because she was his now.  I told him that text I sent her warning her to back off was the only contact I'd had with her for months.  I didn't tell him I thought he should run for the hills but I did add that I hoped he'd keep his eyes more open than I did.

@Ellener  I believe your guess about me being hung up on her was true right after she left me.  I went to a counselor and got through it.  Now I almost never think of her and when I do it doesn't have that sting.  The only reason I've brought her up is that I just seem to be experiencing much more trouble getting women (specifically single ones in my age range) to treat my like a human.  I am totally willing to accept there is something about me that is at least somewhat repellent, I even have a few ideas.  It's just that the only thing I can think of for why I can't even get a polite "no thank you" is that I'm already seen as some kind of monster.  My ex didn't live in my town for long but she did work at 3 of the largest businesses and as stated, was quite active on social media.  Between her public trash talk and her going to my place of work to try to start rumors, I really believe she wanted to break me.  She once told me that I was the first relationship she had taken seriously.  All of her previous encounters, by her own account, were her intentionally toying with men's emotions as a kind of way to feel powerful.  This was the one time she seemed to take the time to understand her own actions.

So, it seems the consensus is that it is possible her efforts could be a factor in the trouble I'm experiencing but can not be the entirety.  I guess this is quite helpful because for some reason I'd gotten hung up on it being either or.  A bad reputation or something about me.  It makes much more sense that it would be a combination of the two, since there's got to be some that wouldn't care about one or the other.  Armed with this logic, I believe I can keep trying to refine my own personality to take care of that side of things.  As for the possibility that I've got a reputation as a bad partner, anyone have any advice?  Just keep trying to be the best me and hope someday people will forget about her?  I can't think of anything that could possibly prove my character in the short term, unless I got some of my female friends to casually mention me in their circles.  Again, the problem with that is that my friends don't have very extended friend groups, either.  I have a female roommate and her social circle is quite literally me and her husband.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, WulfeOfLegend said:

A few months ago I found out a woman I see and talk to frequently and have been drawn to for some time had become single so I told her that I found her attractive and that I'd love to hang out or talk sometime if she was up to it.  She just walked away with an annoyed expression and has barely spoken a word since.

Could be your approach.   This woman you approached - you say you talked with her frequently.  How do you know her?  Did the two of you converse easily before you asked her out?  

Also, back when I was young and pretty, if guy told me that he wanted to hang out or talk because he found me attractive, I'd likely say No.  I didn't want to be dated for my looks.   Had he said that he really enjoys my company and would like to take me to dinner, it may well have been a Yes.  

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

There are several "Advisory" groups that exist, where women will get a picture of you and "Advise" their group of you... In these groups, you have no defense, these women just make light of your character based off of whatever accusation is made against you.

I originally saw this on... I believe the Plenty of Fish forums maybe... Where women who were getting sick messages from dudes would create a thread with the dudes picture, yadda yadda.

Anyways, I wouldn't worry about any of that, even if that is happening to you, as long as the police aren't involved nobody really cares unless they are motivated to attack you, like for example you hurt their feelings, but even then, you can take legal action against those people making unjustified claims publicly of your character, there are even some funds now that men who are wrongfully under attack by groups of women can utilize to afford legal fees for such cases, but of course the cases must be reviewed before hand.

Overall, all the answers, you already have... Whatever is happening, you can deal with it, you have the tools... But if you give up, then having the tools doesn't mean a thing, having the tools is only half the battle, the other half is getting out there and using them. Factually, 80% of women chase after 10% of men online, but offline, your competition is much less stiff, so just make an approach in real life, see how it goes.

[Yosemite]

Do you live in a tiny town? Otherwise, I really doubt that you have a negative reputation no matter what your ex said about you on Facebook.

Is your beard, well-trimmed and well maintained? A lot of women don’t find a mountain-man beard attractive.

You say that you change your style a lot, can you be more specific? Do you mean that you dress in goth for a couple of months, and then switch to preppy for the next few months, and then switch to surfer etc?

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The only thing I can think of with that story is that her breakup may have been very recent and I touched a nerve, I don't know when it happened.  

I agree that there’s more to this story. Maybe she literally broke up the same day that you spoke to her. Or she hadn’t told anyone about the break-up so she knew that you had to have overheard/gossiped/snooped to find out that she was single. Or maybe she thought that it was sleazy for you to make a move on her because you’re good friends with the guy. Idk, but since you’re getting this reaction over and over again, it has to be something that you're doing. (BTW, if you want a date, ask for one; don’t ask to hang out.)

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and god help me if I try to approach a woman in person and start a conversation.  Again, I get ignored but in these cases I get to see the horrified look or eye roll before they walk away. 

You’re probably going up to the outgoing, friendly, talkative women, most of the time those types of women want outgoing, friendly, talkative guys. Look around for the shy, quiet girl, her personality is a better match for yours.

Are you dressed in a punk style and going up to preppy girls? Or maybe you switched your style to buttoned-down-business man and you're approaching beach girls? I think that if you describe these rejections in more detail, you’ll get better advice. What exactly do you say to these women when you approach them? Where are you approaching them? At a bar, a coffee shop, while they’re walking down the street? Are you by yourself and they’re with a group of their friends? Are you doing this during the day or at night?

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I am totally willing to accept there is something about me that is at least somewhat repellent,

I even have a few ideas. 

Like what? 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Yosemite

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, WulfeOfLegend said:

it seems the consensus

You mean you think this, or someone's advising you?

Even if she were bad-mouthing you all over the world people don't tend to take a lot of notice of warnings about relationships I don't think ( in my younger days I'd have probably found it interesting...I'm sure I only got married because my father didn't want me to etc! ) 

It's more likely something you project yourself from the way you see yourself as somehow repellent. A few rejections on top of a traumatic relationship can do a lot of damage.

Maybe a few counselling sessions on that and working on your self-image and self-talk?

 

[preraph]

Get rid of the beard. A lot of women will not even look at guys with beards.

[JS84]

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She once told me that I was the first relationship she had taken seriously.  All of her previous encounters, by her own account, were her intentionally toying with men's emotions as a kind of way to feel powerful.  This was the one time she seemed to take the time to understand her own actions.

That's a pretty big red flag right there. Especially since it sounds like that's exactly what she did to you. 

[lana-banana]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

Get rid of the beard. A lot of women will not even look at guys with beards.

Do not take this advice. If a beard suits you, wear it. There are a lot of guys who look horrendous clean-shaven.

More to the point, I don't think your ex has anything to do with your dating woes. By your own account most people stopped listening to her online because they found her noxious and annoying, and unless you live in a literal village I can't imagine the vast majority of people you meet would have any connection to her. She's not your issue.

It seems to me there's a very substantial difference between your self-perception and reality. It's actually pretty common for guys to come on this site and talk about how they're such a good catch, such a great guy, etc, but they mysteriously strike out with every woman they see---most often because they behave in a way that women immediately recognize as unpleasant. I can't help but think your friends would have a different take on the situation. Is there someone you can trust to be straight with you?

[mark clemson]

It's sounds almost like to women you're one of those cars that look great for someone else to buy, but *I'm* buying a black, white, grey, or red compact (like everyone else does). You're like a bright blue car or something.

I think you need to "hunt" in an area with more people. Or find the right woman to accept your slightly eccentric personality/style (as this prior GF was). You seem bright, but I'd also bet your personality is a little unusual. Some of the things you mention reinforce this - change your looks frequently, accepting a person who has seizures, etc as a GF. Nothing at all wrong with that and kudos for being open-minded, but many men would stay far away from a girl with these family problems.

I too suspect you need to work on your "game" as well when interacting. Apparent interest, followed by eye-rolls and walking away means something is off when you're asking them out IMO. Maybe you seem too needy, or maybe you're just being too direct, its hard to tell. Women tend to be indirect in a lot of their communication, so you may wish to recognize that and follow their lead (and BTW it was a poster here who made me more aware of that).

You sound bright, but bright people in conversation can talk about whatever's on their mind, which may seem geeky. Some women are into geeky, but maybe not those looking for LTRs in a small town with limited options? They don't want to be stuck with the geek forever? Please don't take this the wrong way, but your job sounds, to be completely honest, pretty mediocre. Current conditions may change things a bit (at least you HAVE a job), but generally that's probably not helping with women in late 20's who might be thinking it's time to "get serious" about finding a guy they could start a family with, etc.

In the absence of someone right there with you to give tips, consider "easing in". Start with acquaintances, let that become friendships, then with one (or more) who really take a shine to you, start asking them out. The friendzone has a bad rap IMO. It's actually a good place to move to the "next level" from IF you start as a friend. If you start by making a move and get rejected but accepted only as a friend, THAT'S the "bad" friendzone you hear about. So maybe hang out and get to know the gals more, let them get used to you, etc.