why am I trap in this loop? is this married life?

[wtm78]

i am married almost 3 years, but separated for 10 months. in this whole marriage, i feel that i have no say in everything, even though i voice out my likes and dislikes.

wife is not nasty or anything, but she is very emotional. while she is being controlled by her emotions. i feel like i am a hostage of her emotions as well. 

in short, my issues with her is like this.. 

when I'm upset with something (that is repeated) -> i will talk to her about it -> she goes crazy, defensive etc -> I feel unheard and frustrated -> wait for her to calm down -> talk to her again -> she continues to be defensive, not going to acknowledge my complain -> I get pissed -> she gets more defensive, insist i am criticising her -> she cry, shutdown or ran to her parents' -> I get more pissed -> wait for her to calm down -> the cycle continues

now that we are separated for 10 months. within these times, i have given her the space, and i have also approached her to see where we are heading. she has also been giving very mix messages. somedays, she blamed me for leaving her alone. some days she is very hurt that i leave her alone and wants to be alone and wants her space. some days she blames me for not going to her family dinner. some days she wants to focus on herself and be separated. some days she wants to visit my parents when i am there. but when i talk to her she doesnt want to talk. some days when i leave her alone, she text me to check how i was doing. mand wanted to work things out. but in order to work things out i would need her to also want the same thing. if she wants it also, we would need work, therapy or marriage coaching. when i called her and told her that. she starts with she is committed to the marriage, and she feel relief that that she is slowly finding back herself, and she doesnt want to get back, and she is not able to control her emotions and important to continue healing and if we dont end up together we have all done our best. 

so it sounds like she wants to divorce? that is what i am hearing. but when i clarify if she meant she is not ready to commit at this point, she say its not about not ready to commit and repeats that she doesnt want get back. turns the issue around now that i dont accept her as a person fundamentally. doesnt want counseling or therapy or coaching, she wants to be herself because she feels so relief now. and say i should just focus on healing. . which i dont understand, it sound contradicting

i feel like i have been taken hostage in her emotional roller coaster ride.. its really torturing.. she doesnt want to settle the issues, she goes crazy if i talk about divorce. i have no choice, i feel trapped

 

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, wtm78 said:

so it sounds like she wants to divorce? that is what i am hearing. but when i clarify if she meant she is not ready to commit at this point, she say its not about not ready to commit and repeats that she doesnt want get back. turns the issue around now that i dont accept her as a person fundamentally. doesnt want counseling or therapy or coaching, she wants to be herself because she feels so relief now. and say i should just focus on healing. . which i dont understand, it sound contradicting

i feel like i have been taken hostage in her emotional roller coaster ride.. its really torturing.. she doesnt want to settle the issues, she goes crazy if i talk about divorce. i have no choice, i feel trapped

 

At this point, I don't think it matters what she wants. What do you want?

If you want her and the marriage then you are going to need to do counseling where you can learn strategies to handle her emotional manipulation and hopefully she can learn some control.  If she won't attend then you have to divorce. I see no other option for you except to carry on as it is now which has brought you to this forum.

She is using these outbursts because they work with you. She can wear you down and keep you in a perpetual state of confusion where you can't gather the energy to make a decision.

Meanwhile, what is she doing to find herself? Is she in therapy or out with friends?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OP, Schlumpy has spelled it out for you. I'm posting in case you want to hear it from a woman. Also, repetitively I heard in your post that you are married to someone who never ever takes responsibility for her emotions or own actions. Instead she tries to make you responsible for them. There's probably a ton of psychological crap swirling in her head from before you meet her. At best, she sounds completely emotionally immature.  At worst, she's a manipulator and emotional abuser. You should get into individual counseling to help yourself sort through this. If you continue on your current path, you'll end up depressed and dysfunctional (from the strain of feeling you have no path forward). Take careof yourself!

[notbroken]

Run.  Quickly.   You've only been married 3 years and separated for 10 months of that.   Just don't see any coming back from that.   She's not going to change enough for you both to put the anger from that behind you.  Seek legal counsel and move on.   Just no choice here.   The previous poster was right.  Sometimes you have to do what is best for you and this is one of them.  

[preraph]

Having a partner should be rewarding and provide support for you and fun and security.  Instead you're living with a live grenade.  Get out!

[gamon]

How long did you know her before you were married? Did she act like this before or was it a sudden, unexpected change that happened after you returned home from the honeymoon?

[wtm78]

16 hours ago, wtm78 said:

i am married almost 3 years, but separated for 10 months. in this whole marriage, i feel that i have no say in everything, even though i voice out my likes and dislikes.

wife is not nasty or anything, but she is very emotional. while she is being controlled by her emotions. i feel like i am a hostage of her emotions as well. 

in short, my issues with her is like this.. 

when I'm upset with something (that is repeated) -> i will talk to her about it -> she goes crazy, defensive etc -> I feel unheard and frustrated -> wait for her to calm down -> talk to her again -> she continues to be defensive, not going to acknowledge my complain -> I get pissed -> she gets more defensive, insist i am criticising her -> she cry, shutdown or ran to her parents' -> I get more pissed -> wait for her to calm down -> the cycle continues

now that we are separated for 10 months. within these times, i have given her the space, and i have also approached her to see where we are heading. she has also been giving very mix messages. somedays, she blamed me for leaving her alone. some days she is very hurt that i leave her alone and wants to be alone and wants her space. some days she blames me for not going to her family dinner. some days she wants to focus on herself and be separated. some days she wants to visit my parents when i am there. but when i talk to her she doesnt want to talk. some days when i leave her alone, she text me to check how i was doing. my lawyer who is also out our premarriage counselor told me i should call her and reassure her that i am commited to the marriage and wanted to work things out. but in order to work things out i would need her to also want the same thing. if she wants it also, we would need work, therapy or marriage coaching. when i called her and told her that. she starts with she is committed to the marriage, and she feel relief that that she is slowly finding back herself, and she doesnt want to get back, and she is not able to control her emotions and important to continue healing and if we dont end up together we have all done our best. 

so it sounds like she wants to divorce? that is what i am hearing. but when i clarify if she meant she is not ready to commit at this point, she say its not about not ready to commit and repeats that she doesnt want get back. turns the issue around now that i dont accept her as a person fundamentally. doesnt want counseling or therapy or coaching, she wants to be herself because she feels so relief now. and say i should just focus on healing. . which i dont understand, it sound contradicting

i feel like i have been taken hostage in her emotional roller coaster ride.. its really torturing.. she doesnt want to settle the issues, she goes crazy if i talk about divorce. i have no choice, i feel trapped

 

there was a chunk of text in bold  that went missing. how to do edit on the original post?? 

[wtm78]

7 hours ago, gamon said:

How long did you know her before you were married? Did she act like this before or was it a sudden, unexpected change that happened after you returned home from the honeymoon?

i known her for 2years, living with her and her grandma for a year before married. previously during dating days, she was not like this. she was a strong woman. when i bring up something that i was upset, we are able to talk and come to a compromised. and if she does cry, i would give her a hug and give her some space. half hour later i come back and say lets go for dinner and she was able to say ok.. i will calm myself down and lets head out...

[wtm78]

14 hours ago, schlumpy said:

At this point, I don't think it matters what she wants. What do you want?

If you want her and the marriage then you are going to need to do counseling where you can learn strategies to handle her emotional manipulation and hopefully she can learn some control.  If she won't attend then you have to divorce. I see no other option for you except to carry on as it is now which has brought you to this forum.

She is using these outbursts because they work with you. She can wear you down and keep you in a perpetual state of confusion where you can't gather the energy to make a decision.

Meanwhile, what is she doing to find herself? Is she in therapy or out with friends?

i want to settle the underlying issues and not the smoke--screen issues... i want to sit down and talk intimately... i want to have a good live with her.. but i cant talk to her without her being defensive and cutting me off and turning everything back to me again.. its just not possible for me to get started... 

 

meanwhile she is exercising and going back to her old life... i am not sure if she is in therapy.. 

[wtm78]

13 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

OP, Schlumpy has spelled it out for you. I'm posting in case you want to hear it from a woman. Also, repetitively I heard in your post that you are married to someone who never ever takes responsibility for her emotions or own actions. Instead she tries to make you responsible for them. There's probably a ton of psychological crap swirling in her head from before you meet her. At best, she sounds completely emotionally immature.  At worst, she's a manipulator and emotional abuser. You should get into individual counseling to help yourself sort through this. If you continue on your current path, you'll end up depressed and dysfunctional (from the strain of feeling you have no path forward). Take careof yourself!

thank you.. you are so right that i am depressed and dysfunctional.. yes i am still doing my individual counseling.. but i am not sure where are we heading.. it seems like counselor is just providing a listening ear.. is that how counseling works?

[wtm78]

8 hours ago, preraph said:

Having a partner should be rewarding and provide support for you and fun and security.  Instead you're living with a live grenade.  Get out!

thank you preraph.. it was rewarding and there were support and fun and security when we were dating...  i am dishearten.. didnt understand what happen and what changed... its as immediate as the next day after married she was a completely different person...

 

 

8 hours ago, notbroken said:

Run.  Quickly.   You've only been married 3 years and separated for 10 months of that.   Just don't see any coming back from that.   She's not going to change enough for you both to put the anger from that behind you.  Seek legal counsel and move on.   Just no choice here.   The previous poster was right.  Sometimes you have to do what is best for you and this is one of them.  

thank you... i am not able to heal..

[wtm78]

8 hours ago, gamon said:

How long did you know her before you were married? Did she act like this before or was it a sudden, unexpected change that happened after you returned home from the honeymoon?

the change came sudden, as soon as we got married and move into the new place.. its almost unbelieveable... 

Edited April 23, 2020 by wtm78

[preraph]

What happened is you got to know her.  People aren't usually authentic when you first meet them. They're on their best behavior when dating. It takes time and different life circumstances to show you who they really are.

[schlumpy]

It has to be frustrating. Common wisdom says that for you repair this relationship she has to participate. She doesn't want to. There must be a reason for that even if she won't tell you what it is.

I think your only chance is to demonstrate to her what her life will be like without you in it. It's a risk that does not always payoff if reconciliation is your goal. There is a good chance she will like her life without you but it's either that or you sit in limbo until she finally cuts you loose for good.

Go to the chump ladies website and look up the 180. It's a list of activities you should do so you can detach from your SO (significant other) emotionally. That will allow you to make decisions that are in your interest.

Separate your finances. Cancel all joint credit cards and get yourself out of shared debt. Cut her off financially if you can. Is her phone on your plan? Shut it off. Are you paying for her car? Quit making payments. Let her handle it. Take her name off your health insurance policy. Strike her name as beneficiary from any life insurance. Repeat this process for any other items you can think of. 

Go no contact and have your lawyer write up divorce papers that can be quickly delivered.

Do not interact with her until she shows up at your home eager to reconcile.

Keep in mind that by doing this you may be ending your marriage but at least you will be in control.

[gamon]

5 minutes ago, wtm78 said:

the change came sudden, as soon as we got married and move into the new place.. its almost unbelieveable... 

Sorry to hear it. 2 year isn't all that much time to get to know a person before making a lifetime commitment.

 

 

[basil67]

Hold on for a minute.  You're leaving her fragile mental health out of the discussion, but it's so important.  

You've described more than once about how she is a threat to herself (and possibly others). Her unpredictability and uncontrollable sobbing through therapy are other red flags for mental illness.

Let's be very clear - you cannot deal with the issues in the marriage without first getting psychiatric help for her.   As she's a threat to herself, you should have no problem getting an involuntary admission to a psychiatric unit for assessment and treatment.   What have you and any of her therapists done about getting her admitted for treatment? 

Frankly, I think you have no business divorcing her without first doing everything you can to have her assessed by a psychiatrist.  It's all well and good for people to say that she should be doing X or Y, but it doesn't sound like she has the ability to do so without help.

Edited April 23, 2020 by basil67

[BaileyB]

The flip side of the coin basil, if she has a mental illness it will be very difficult to have a healthy, functional relationship with this woman. Even if she gets psychiatric assistance, it’s a difficult road. 

[wtm78]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Hold on for a minute.  You're leaving her fragile mental health out of the discussion, but it's so important.  

You've described more than once about how she is a threat to herself (and possibly others). Her unpredictability and uncontrollable sobbing through therapy are other red flags for mental illness.

Let's be very clear - you cannot deal with the issues in the marriage without first getting psychiatric help for her.   As she's a threat to herself, you should have no problem getting an involuntary admission to a psychiatric unit for assessment and treatment.   What have you and any of her therapists done about getting her admitted for treatment? 

Frankly, I think you have no business divorcing her without first doing everything you can to have her assessed by a psychiatrist.  It's all well and good for people to say that she should be doing X or Y, but it doesn't sound like she has the ability to do so without help.

 

the self harm was all in year 1.. that time because i wanted to protect her and thought that was protecting her. i suffered in silence.. begged her sister who is staying nearby to come over and help.. beg her to please bring wife to see a psychiatrist... brought her sister to see my counselor for my counselor to explain the seriousness of things... but her sister comes tell me, "why you keep thinking that is anything wrong with my sister.. she is ok.. i ask her how are things, and she is fine..." 

my counselor told me to call the ambulance immediately when she does self harm again.. but by then her self harm stopped... in year 2 she just punches herself in the midst of argument..  

begining of the year i ask if i can bring her to see a psychiatrist.. she refused.. she wanted to heal her emotional wounds herself... 

[wtm78]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

The flip side of the coin basil, if she has a mental illness it will be very difficult to have a healthy, functional relationship with this woman. Even if she gets psychiatric assistance, it’s a difficult road. 

say even if she doesnt have mental illness... and just say that all these actions are because i treated her badly... there is still the defensiveness and the shutting down.... it is difficult to have a relationship with the turtle in its shell..

[BaileyB]

Honestly, I can’t imagine why you stay. You don’t need to tell me how difficult it is, I believe you.
 

The thing is, if it’s really that bad, what are you going to do about it? You can’t change her. You can only control yourself. Which means your options are accept this as the way it’s going to be, or leave. Your choice. 

[wtm78]

49 minutes ago, preraph said:

What happened is you got to know her.  People aren't usually authentic when you first meet them. They're on their best behavior when dating. It takes time and different life circumstances to show you who they really are.

she is still a nice person... and i still love her.. i think i am still traumatize by what had happen over the years.. one thing after another... and i am really overwhelmed.. i believe she is traumatize also.. :'-(

 

44 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

It has to be frustrating. Common wisdom says that for you repair this relationship she has to participate. She doesn't want to. There must be a reason for that even if she won't tell you what it is.

I think your only chance is to demonstrate to her what her life will be like without you in it. It's a risk that does not always payoff if reconciliation is your goal. There is a good chance she will like her life without you but it's either that or you sit in limbo until she finally cuts you loose for good.

Go to the chump ladies website and look up the 180. It's a list of activities you should do so you can detach from your SO (significant other) emotionally. That will allow you to make decisions that are in your interest.

Separate your finances. Cancel all joint credit cards and get yourself out of shared debt. Cut her off financially if you can. Is her phone on your plan? Shut it off. Are you paying for her car? Quit making payments. Let her handle it. Take her name off your health insurance policy. Strike her name as beneficiary from any life insurance. Repeat this process for any other items you can think of. 

Go no contact and have your lawyer write up divorce papers that can be quickly delivered.

Do not interact with her until she shows up at your home eager to reconcile.

Keep in mind that by doing this you may be ending your marriage but at least you will be in control.

i just send her some stuff that she left behind. i left them at her door earlier... i would expect that she goes crazy and accuse me of something again... but didnt.. no reply from her... 

i wanted to return those things a long time. i was always afraid of her reaction... 

[basil67]

23 minutes ago, wtm78 said:

 

the self harm was all in year 1.. that time because i wanted to protect her and thought that was protecting her. i suffered in silence.. begged her sister who is staying nearby to come over and help.. beg her to please bring wife to see a psychiatrist... brought her sister to see my counselor for my counselor to explain the seriousness of things... but her sister comes tell me, "why you keep thinking that is anything wrong with my sister.. she is ok.. i ask her how are things, and she is fine..." 

my counselor told me to call the ambulance immediately when she does self harm again.. but by then her self harm stopped... in year 2 she just punches herself in the midst of argument..  

begining of the year i ask if i can bring her to see a psychiatrist.. she refused.. she wanted to heal her emotional wounds herself... 

If someone is harming themselves, you don't need agreement for them to be put into psychiatric care.   This is because those who have mental illness aren't always aware that they are ill.    But if she's punching herself in the midst of an argument, that's still self harm.   But perhaps not enough to enforce her to seek treatment.  

 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, wtm78 said:

say even if she doesnt have mental illness... and just say that all these actions are because i treated her badly... there is still the defensiveness and the shutting down.... it is difficult to have a relationship with the turtle in its shell..

The mood swings, rapid changes of mind, sobbing uncontrollably while in therapy, punching herself when you have an argument, shutting down - these aren't the actions of a someone who's mentally stable.      And it's true that you can't have a relationship with someone who's not mentally stable.   It's unfortunate that the window for having her compulsorily seen by a psych would have closed after she stopped hurting herself with objects.

 

[wtm78]

27 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Honestly, I can’t imagine why you stay. You don’t need to tell me how difficult it is, I believe you.
 

The thing is, if it’s really that bad, what are you going to do about it? You can’t change her. You can only control yourself. Which means your options are accept this as the way it’s going to be, or leave. Your choice. 

because i still love her and i dont want to love her anymore... :-'(😭

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

2 hours ago, wtm78 said:

thank you.. you are so right that i am depressed and dysfunctional.. yes i am still doing my individual counseling.. but i am not sure where are we heading.. it seems like counselor is just providing a listening ear.. is that how counseling works?

Hi. Glad you are getting help here. Many good people in this forum will give you solid perspective. As for how counseling works, I can share my own experience and hopefully that will help you decide for yourself.

Firstly, I think most important is that you trust your counselor based on your experiences with him/her. If they click with you, what they say makes sense usually, you feel safe and respected in sessions...these are examples of what I mean.

I've been seeing my counselor off and on for about 5 years. I consider her to be very good and I've made progress in my time with her. I also saw another good counselor for a few years 20+ years ago. In between I saw a few a couple times each whom I didn't think were so great.

Today I had a ton of family drama (mainly mom) so I had an impromptu phone session with her. She listened to my situation. Asked me a couple questions to clarify as I went along. Then she made suggestions such as reframing my mom's intent (that it probably wasn't malicious and thinking it was would keep me feeling worse). She validated what I said and how I felt. We discussed that my mom doesn't have the capability to empathise with me or validate me, so I have to do that for myself. About 1/3 in to the call, I told her I was feeling uncomfortable and asked if that was a good sign. She said that was my psychological resistance, a defense mechanism. We discussed my challenge to face the deep seated emotions of my old traumas. She reminded me that my brain has actually wired itself to avoid confronting them stemming from childhood survival mechanisms. But she said to push myself through it to clear it. She said the time to heal it is when I feel it.

Midway I told her I was still struggling with resistance. She suggested I confront the resistance as a separate entity, give it a voice, ask it what it wants. Then, after it exhausts itself, I could get to the suppressed emotions underneath it to deal with and heal them.

She gave suggestions like drawing, painting, coloring, journaling to tap into those emotions and process them. We discussed that a support group for adult children of narcissistic parents might be good for me at this time.

This talk lasted about 54 minutes. I think it was a good session, especially by phone. I have had a couple sessions in the past when I asked her point blank for her opinion on a situation but she didn't give it and I was frustrated. But mostly my sessions are good. We've done various techniques like hypnosis, visualizations, exercises from books. Once she had me come in on a Saturday beating a stick on the ground and yelling about how I've been violated. I felt silly at times so it was hard to get into it, but I can see what she was going for. Emotions can get lodged in the body, and the act of physically hitting something in a safe environment while voicing your anger can be pretty cathartic.  Hope this helps you!

Edited April 23, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel
Typos