why am I trap in this loop? is this married life?

[wtm78]

6 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Hi. Glad you are getting help here. Many good people in this forum will give you solid perspective. As for how counseling works, I can share my own experience and hopefully that will help you decide for yourself.

Firstly, I think most important is that you trust your counselor based on your experiences with him/her. If they click with you, what they say makes sense usually, you feel safe and respected in sessions...these are examples of what I mean.

I've been seeing my counselor off and on for about 5 years. I consider her to be very good and I've made progress in my time with her. I also saw another good counselor for a few years 20+ years ago. In between I saw a few a couple times each whom I didn't think were so great.

Today I had a ton of family drama (mainly mom) so I had an impromptu phone session with her. She listened to my situation. Asked me a couple questions to clarify as I went along. Then she made suggestions such as reframing my mom's intent (that it probably wasn't malicious and thinking it was would keep me feeling worse). She validated what I said and how I felt. We discussed that my mom doesn't have the capability to empathise with me or validate me, so I have to do that for myself. About 1/3 in to the call, I told her I was feeling uncomfortable and asked if that was a good sign. She said that was my psychological resistance, a defense mechanism. We discussed my challenge to face the deep seated emotions of my old traumas. She reminded me that my brain has actually wired itself to avoid confronting them stemming from childhood survival mechanisms. But she said to push myself through it to clear it. She said the time to heal it is when I feel it.

Midway I told her I was still struggling with resistance. She suggested I confront the resistance as a separate entity, give it a voice, ask it what it wants. Then, after it exhausts itself, I could get to the suppressed emotions underneath it to deal with and heal them.

She gave suggestions like drawing, painting, coloring, journaling to tap into those emotions and process them. We discussed that a support group for adult children of narcissistic parents might be good for me at this time.

This talk lasted about 54 minutes. I think it was a good session, especially by phone. I have had a couple sessions in the past when I asked her point blank for her opinion on a situation but she didn't give it and I was frustrated. But mostly my sessions are good. We've done various techniques like hypnosis, visualizations, exercises from books. Once she had me come in on a Saturday beating a stick on the ground and yelling about how I've been violated. I felt silly at times so it was hard to get into it, but I can see what she was going for. Emotions can get lodged in the body, and the act of physically hitting something in a safe environment while voicing your anger can be pretty cathartic.  Hope this helps you!

glad that 54mins was good! i am thinking back with my sessions.. my counselor, ask me questions and how i feel about it. then he validates and explain why i feel that why. and mostly tells me i have describe my feelings very well.. and thats about 1 hr... sometimes i dont really understand why is he making me talk out my feelings... it doesnt do anything to help me process anything.. 

[wtm78]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

The mood swings, rapid changes of mind, sobbing uncontrollably while in therapy, punching herself when you have an argument, shutting down - these aren't the actions of a someone who's mentally stable.      And it's true that you can't have a relationship with someone who's not mentally stable.   It's unfortunate that the window for having her compulsorily seen by a psych would have closed after she stopped hurting herself with objects.

 

ya i guess i should have called the police when she locked herself in the room with a knife.. 

[preraph]

Call for an ambulance or call the police when someone is self-harming because that's the only way you can quickly get them into psychiatric care.

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, wtm78 said:

ya i guess i should have called the police when she locked herself in the room with a knife.. 

Yes. She is a risk to herself, and to you, when she does that. This woman needs treatment.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

3 hours ago, wtm78 said:

glad that 54mins was good! i am thinking back with my sessions.. my counselor, ask me questions and how i feel about it. then he validates and explain why i feel that why. and mostly tells me i have describe my feelings very well.. and thats about 1 hr... sometimes i dont really understand why is he making me talk out my feelings... it doesnt do anything to help me process anything.. 

I suggest could be one of these possibilities:

1) It's helping but you may not recognize it (kind of like when an overweight person begins losing weight they don't recognize it in the mirror but someone who hasn't seen them in a while notices instantly);

2) your counselor might be building on your previous sessions probing you to go deeper, as he learns more on a deeper level/establishing trust with you so your comfortable to go there (doesn't want to push too hard too fast);

3) talk might not be 'your thing' but it's still beneficial, your counselor might try other techniques after obtaining a baseline.

Have you discussed other possible techniques with him? Or his approach to working with clients with your set of circumstances? Exactly how long/how many sessions have you had to date?  Hang in there. Results come sporadically. For example, I might struggle on reolving something for weeks, even months, until it will finally click with an Aha!

Many times I get it on an intellectual level, but it takes time and effort to connect with it on a deeper, more emotional level. When I do, resolution ahs relief follow. Might be same or different for you. 

Stick with it, and be an active advocate asking questions throughout the process. 

[wtm78]

6 hours ago, preraph said:

Call for an ambulance or call the police when someone is self-harming because that's the only way you can quickly get them into psychiatric care.

 

5 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Yes. She is a risk to herself, and to you, when she does that. This woman needs treatment.

 

I guess it's too late now since we are separated. 

[wtm78]

5 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

I suggest could be one of these possibilities:

1) It's helping but you may not recognize it (kind of like when an overweight person begins losing weight they don't recognize it in the mirror but someone who hasn't seen them in a while notices instantly);

2) your counselor might be building on your previous sessions probing you to go deeper, as he learns more on a deeper level/establishing trust with you so your comfortable to go there (doesn't want to push too hard too fast);

3) talk might not be 'your thing' but it's still beneficial, your counselor might try other techniques after obtaining a baseline.

Have you discussed other possible techniques with him? Or his approach to working with clients with your set of circumstances? Exactly how long/how many sessions have you had to date?  Hang in there. Results come sporadically. For example, I might struggle on reolving something for weeks, even months, until it will finally click with an Aha!

Many times I get it on an intellectual level, but it takes time and effort to connect with it on a deeper, more emotional level. When I do, resolution ahs relief follow. Might be same or different for you. 

Stick with it, and be an active advocate asking questions throughout the process. 

I started having sessions again since last August but I can't recall how many sessions we have altogether. 

But my progress had been going better then regress. I guess because of the very confusing signals by wife conflicting actions. For example all her I want to be alone talk. Then when I really left her alone. She come and ask how am I doing, do I need any help, let her know she will help. So of course I call her out and ask her what is she trying to do, she wants to be left alone and I respected her decision. For this she accused me of thinking she has some ulterior motives....

 

[basil67]

Wtm, calling out someone on their actions is all well and good when they are mentally stable, but you’ve been describing someone who’s highly unstable.  She can’t control her emotions, let alone explain them.  If you are hearing mixed messages, it’s only because you don’t understand how unwell she is

[wtm78]

2 weeks ago, when I ask her if she is still committed to the marriage and wants to make it work. If so perhaps we can go find a therapist or marriage coach.

The confusing thing she says is that yes she is committed to the marriage but she doesn't want to get back, and we should heal ourselves and be a better version of ourselves. And if the end we didn't work out then know that we have both did our best.

I was really puzzled with the conflicting statement so I clarified, so does that mean she is not ready to commit to changes and recovery perhaps we can talk about another time. She gets edgy and start talk down on me saying I just don't get it and how I have such corrupted mind to twist her words. Then she repeats the same thing that she doesn't want to get back and how I should focus on being a better version of myself and that even she feels lonely but she is not going to get back because of loneliness and she been reading up something on the internet. And how she is improving herself. And goes on and on lecturing me that I should be exercising and focus on myself etc etc...

She seems like a very different person, either some one is teaching her something or she is reading some s*** off the internet. 

Ok I got side tracked. So it was a very very confusing stand she has and this has been her same stand since Dec 2019. 

But when I tell her since she has made up her mind not to get back and not wanting to perhaps we should proceed with the divorce. She starts to get highly emotional and say she is sick of hearing how much I wanted to divorce her and  I'm full of accusations that she is not doing anything to solve the problems between us. She described in detail how much pain she went through and in pain during the separation and all the things she done to work on the marriage previously and insisted that I just don't see them. And how much she still care about me and even wants to help me cope during this Covid situation. And how her friends been asking about us and she had not once say anything negative about me.. 

It's just really confusing and I can't follow and can't understand what she is saying. At the same time feeling emotionally trapped or taken hostage... 😔

[basil67]

And I can only reiterate that she like doesn't understand her own emotions either.   From the behaviour you've been describing, she needs a psychiatrist, not a therapist.   Mental illness will turn someone into "a different person"

Edited April 23, 2020 by basil67

[BaileyB]

In other words, you can’t reason with someone who is unreasonable. 

You are trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is mentally unstable. You are not going to get the answers you seek. You are not going to be successful. Not because she doesn’t want to talk with you. But because she can’t talk with you right now, she is unstable.

if you want to find peace, you need to stop engaging with this woman. Let her go.

[BaileyB]

46 minutes ago, wtm78 said:

At the same time feeling emotionally trapped or taken hostage... 😔

Because you continue to engage with her. Let her go (stop talking to her) and you will not feel trapped and taken hostage. 

You are creating your own problems here. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[basil67]

And let's be clear about her blaming you.   You've given examples of the issues you've raised and to me, you seem to criticise her over minutiae.  (some burned toast, interrupted you during a conversation with someone)  But I am stable and would explain the theory of letting the small things go and saving discussions for important things.   If you continued focusing on such tiny things, I would reconsider whether I want you as my partner.

However, because she is already unstable, she can't deal with your complaints in a proactive way.  Instead, she screams, sobs uncontrollably and hurts herself.  So while I would agree that you are at fault in being overly picky, she doesn't have the ability to deal with it in a rational manner.  

 

[wtm78]

24 minutes ago, basil67 said:

And let's be clear about her blaming you.   You've given examples of the issues you've raised and to me, you seem to criticise her over minutiae.  (some burned toast, interrupted you during a conversation with someone)  But I am stable and would explain the theory of letting the small things go and saving discussions for important things.   If you continued focusing on such tiny things, I would reconsider whether I want you as my partner.

However, because she is already unstable, she can't deal with your complaints in a proactive way.  Instead, she screams, sobs uncontrollably and hurts herself.  So while I would agree that you are at fault in being overly picky, she doesn't have the ability to deal with it in a rational manner.  

 

i dont know how to explain this, like i dont know how to explain it to her. i didnt criticize her over small stuff. sure i pointed out some petty daily things to her. i am sure its part of a day in day out conversation for everyone. which most people will do...

hey the toast is burnt, take it out sooner the next time and the other go oh alright.. and for the dinner conversation, she was talking to the person on her left and i was on her right and i was talking to the person on my right... and all of a sudden she cuts into our converstaion.... so i spoke to her when we get back... hey i was talking to john doe earlier about global news and its a topic that i want to find out more, and you just cut us off to talk about a celebrity hairdo.. can you dont cut me off in front of your friends the next time? oh, ok.. i wasnt aware i did that... i will take note next time...   that was the expected response, at least it was how it played out in my head. but instead i get the you criticize me and i am a horrible person and i am ugly and fat and you dont love me no more.... was not what i was expecting...

i dont want to sound like i am defending myself... if i dont point it out, i am like a trophy husband in her friend's gathering, because i end up sitting there the whole session and not be able to get to know anyone... because that actually happens every time... and throughout the whole dinner... and sometimes i have been feeling why am i even there, am i just there for her friends to see she has a husband??? or am i just there to show her friends her husband is here and he follows her around... so sweet.... 

Edited April 23, 2020 by wtm78

[basil67]

Pointing out petty daily things IS criticising small stuff.   And no, petty daily things are not part of day in day out conversations in my marriage - I can't imagine being with someone who did this.   We save our discussions for important things.   And when we do have discussions, we are thoughtful with our words. 

For example, we wouldn't say "the the toast is burnt, take it out sooner next time".   If it was the first time it happened, we'd say nothing.  If the toaster was unpredictable, we'd say nothing or buy a new toaster.   However if it was an ongoing thing we'd say "Thanks for the breakfast.  I don't know if I told you, but I prefer my toast a bit less cooked.  If you could do it on X setting, I'd appreciate it".    Regarding cutting off a conversation, in a social atmosphere people's conversations get cut off all the time.  If your good friend had interrupted the conversation, would you have corrected him?   I bet not.

You didn't get the responses you expected to either of these things because:

a) they were poorly delivered

b) they were petty 

c) according to your descriptions of her behaviour, she's likely suffereing a mental illness and CAN'T respond rationally.

Why can't you get to know anyone at her social events?   

Edited April 24, 2020 by basil67

[schlumpy]

13 hours ago, wtm78 said:

She seems like a very different person, either some one is teaching her something or she is reading some s*** off the internet. 

 

If you're like me you aren't doing much of anything right now so why don't you find out where her thoughts are coming from? That could be illuminating.

[wtm78]

On 4/24/2020 at 8:07 PM, schlumpy said:

If you're like me you aren't doing much of anything right now so why don't you find out where her thoughts are coming from? That could be illuminating.

How would I be able to find out? Ask her? 

Every interaction now ends up bad. It's like we have 2 opposing energy

[schlumpy]

It could be as simple as just asking her. She may be very proud of her new perspective and decide to share.

You must know some of her friends and family. Can you talk with any of them? Frame you inquiries as a concern for her mental well being. See if you can't shake loose some information that will lead you to a better understanding. 

Can find out where she spends her leisure time? There may be some clues to discover there.

You've got nothing to lose.

[wtm78]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:36 AM, schlumpy said:

It could be as simple as just asking her. She may be very proud of her new perspective and decide to share.

You must know some of her friends and family. Can you talk with any of them? Frame you inquiries as a concern for her mental well being. See if you can't shake loose some information that will lead you to a better understanding. 

Can find out where she spends her leisure time? There may be some clues to discover there.

You've got nothing to lose.

Thanks! Great advice. She still thinks that she had no change. That she treated me very well. And she have done over and beyond for me. And she had even tried to change herself into someone she is not to suit me. That she don't even recognize or like herself. And it is I who do not accept her as who she is fundamentally.