Was it a Breakup or Not?

[KBarletta]

I used to be a regular on these forums for a few years after going through a divorce and several short-term relationships. Now, I have been with the same woman for two years and, until recently, very happy.

Yesterday, that all changed. We've been struggling like everyone else through the pandemic, but for us it's been also difficult because we live apart. We've both been extremely stressed and upset recently.

Yesterday, I guess you could say it boiled over. We had an argument the night before and didn't talk much during the day, but did text. We had scheduled an online chat with friends to start at 6:00 and I called her around 5:30 to make sure she was still going to get on the chat. She said yes and we had a brief chat and hung up. She then texted me to say that my calling her made her feel unwanted and that she would not, in fact, be joining me and my friends on the call. I decided to call her then and explain that I was just reminding her about the call and that I still wanted her to participate. She said she didn't believe me.

After she said that,, I got really upset and said a few things I regret now. I responded to what I saw as her overreacting, and then what I saw as her calling me a liar by saying, "I can't live like this."

She responded by saying, "That sounds like a breakup line to me." And I responded, "Yeah, I guess it does." And then she decided that I was breaking up with her. I assured her I wasn't, but she wouldn't hear me. She decided that, because I said that, we were breaking up and I couldn't take it back. 

I told her two or three more times I did not in fact want to break up with her, but she eventually ended the conversation by saying she had nothing else to say. So I hung up and joined my friends in the chat. I ended up drinking a bottle of wine and then falling asleep. I never called her back.

Now, it is 24 hours later and I haven't heard from her all day (nor have I reached out to her). I don't want to end this relationship. I said something stupid (which I actually apologized for yesterday) and I wish I could take it back. 

I guess I just don't know what to do next. Should I call her? And say what? Should I give it time? (Time is, at least at this point, something I have plenty of. LOL). We have never really gone a day without talking for maybe a year or more. So this feels bad.

I love this woman and don't want this to be it. But I feel if I reach out to her too soon and say that  she might still be upset and reject me. This has been the best relationship of my life, and was a breeze, really, until the pandemic hit and everything got tense and difficult. 

Any advice, LS folks?
  

[preraph]

Why did you call her when you were shortly going to be on a chat with her anyway?  I guess she thought you were still arguing.  Were you?

[KBarletta]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

Why did you call her when you were shortly going to be on a chat with her anyway?  I guess she thought you were still arguing.  Were you?

I called just to make sure she was still getting on. That's all. We had planned to play a game and I needed her on to be my partner. I guess I just wanted to double check and make sure she wasn't still upset, or that she didn't forget. 
Also, the chat was with a large group of people, and we often will chat beforehand just to get a little one on one time prior to the big group. I've done it before for that very reason.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by KBarletta

[preraph]

Well, she was still upset so I guess the argument wasn't resolved to her satisfaction . And just guessing here since I know nothing of the argument and exchange, but I'm guessing the breakup talk isn't about you calling her before the group call but how she felt after the arguing last night.  So sounds like you needn't be bewildered but are going to have to let her calm down and reopen that discussion and resolve it if you don't want to break up.  Good luck.  

[KBarletta]

12 minutes ago, preraph said:

Well, she was still upset so I guess the argument wasn't resolved to her satisfaction . And just guessing here since I know nothing of the argument and exchange, but I'm guessing the breakup talk isn't about you calling her before the group call but how she felt after the arguing last night.  So sounds like you needn't be bewildered but are going to have to let her calm down and reopen that discussion and resolve it if you don't want to break up.  Good luck.  

The argument the previous day was, again, her telling me she didn't believe me when I said something. I told her I was miserable living alone during this lockdown. She said, "I don't believe you are. I think you seem content." And I got upset that she said she didn't believe me. Then, when she said the same thing the next day, I got even more upset. That's when I said "I can't live like this." That was the line that started us down the path of breakup talk.

[preraph]

Sounds like a silly argument, but she's still mad about it.  So is she mad you're not together during this pandemic?  Is she just resentful you didn't do it together (good call by the way, because guarantee you'd be fighting even worse locked up together). 

[KBarletta]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

Sounds like a silly argument, but she's still mad about it.  So is she mad you're not together during this pandemic?  Is she just resentful you didn't do it together (good call by the way, because guarantee you'd be fighting even worse locked up together). 

Yeah. She has said several times that she wished we were together. But we live apart, and I have a home office with a ton of work equipment in my house that I use every day. So living together wasn't really an option at this stage. Also, this has gone on longer than I anticipated, and if I had foreseen this, I might have done things differently. But also, I just like being at my own place. But she took that as a rejection of her, rather than the fact that if I was at her place (with her and 3 kids) I wouldn't feel as comfortable and other problems would arise.

 

[scooby-philly]

@KBarletta - Sorry for your pain and the problems/headache.

A few questions for you to reflect on and maybe provide some additional clarity:

• Is this a long-distance relationship? If so, how far away? If not, is there a reason why you guys cannot see each other a bit - perhaps because of state laws in effect right now?
• How do typical arguments go between you too? Does shoe use language like "I don't believe you" or other lines that belittle you as a person?
• What's her dating history and overall personality like? 
• You said this is the best relationship you've ever had. Why were the previous ones failure? What would you characterize in this relationship as being awesome for you, what would you characterize from it as being mature and healthy, and what would you say you guys need to work on?
• What do you not mind sharing about yourself and your personality and things such as your love language or attachment style.

In the short-term I would give her till the end of day tomorrow to cool down. If you have not heard back from her then I would sent a simple, well-written, and thoughtful text or email. If you still feel like you want to salvage this and that this is a good relationship (mature, healthy, what you both want) and you feel apologetic for what happened then I would suggest apologizing again, elaborating (but concisely) on how you've been feeling lately, how her words made you feel and why, and explaining again (no snarky or sarcastic tone) why you had reached out to her ahead of the virtual event and explaining that you thought the previous argument had been settled and always want to resolve conflicts in a way that satisfactory to you both.

[KBarletta]

5 minutes ago, preraph said:

Sounds like a silly argument, but she's still mad about it.  So is she mad you're not together during this pandemic?  Is she just resentful you didn't do it together (good call by the way, because guarantee you'd be fighting even worse locked up together). 

I guess the bottom line is that I don't want to break up with her (and I don't feel as though I really DID, actually) but she seems convinced that I did. Haven't heard from her all day in any form. That hasn't happened for over a year, even in times when we would have a fight. We would still text a bit. 

[preraph]

Oh, GOD!  Three kids, no way.  You'd have to be insane to lock yourself up with that.  And it's not safe. You'd go mad.  That's what's wrong with HER.  It's not you.  She's locked up with three kids 24/7 and like all the other parents doing that, she's going crazy and is very cranky.  Believe me, you do not want in the middle of that and she is going to just have to cool down after this is over -- or not.  She can't expect anyone to want to do that.  No way.

[KBarletta]

13 minutes ago, scooby-philly said:

Is this a long-distance relationship? If so, how far away? If not, is there a reason why you guys cannot see each other a bit - perhaps because of state laws in effect right now? 

We live about 45 minutes away from each other. Same general area. We have tried to see each other at least once a week, but we've been keeping socially distant. So no sleeping together, or kissing/hugging. Though we both have expressed that we hated that and wanted to figure out a way to actually be together, while living apart. It's hard, because nobody wants to get sick, and she has three kids in her home.

How do typical arguments go between you too? Does shoe use language like "I don't believe you" or other lines that belittle you as a person?

Honestly, until recently we didn't argue much at all. She argues very much like she's always right and she remembers everything. She has said something along the lines of "I don't believe you" once or twice in the past, but it's not a pattern. That's one reason I got so upset when I heard it twice in two days.

What's her dating history and overall personality like? 

She is much like me, in her 40s, divorced with teenage kids. She was in an abusive relationship before meeting me. We have rarely argued, and have never been physically abusive with each other by any stretch.

Why were the previous ones failure? What would you characterize in this relationship as being awesome for you, what would you characterize from it as being mature and healthy, and what would you say you guys need to work on?

I would say my marriage failed because we just weren't meant to be together. We didn't communicate well, or really show affection for each other. It wasn't a good decision for us. The two relationships besides my marriage that I was in before this - one failed simply because we lived 1,000 miles apart and couldn't sustain it. We are still friends. The other, she was dismissive of me and flaked constantly I got tired of it and walked away. 

In my current relationship (until now) the communication was always good. We had the same interests. We really were compatible physically (like, all kinds of sex all the time, which we both liked, and which hasn't been the norm for me at this age LOL). We liked each other's families, have similar careers, loved to travel together, etc. 

I would say - now especially - that we have to work on how we communicate when we are upset. That's really why we are where we are. 
 

What do you not mind sharing about yourself and your personality and things such as your love language or attachment style.

My love languages are words of affirmation and physical touch. I'd say my attachment style is largely secure, with occasional tendencies toward anxious when things get bad.

In the short-term I would give her till the end of day tomorrow to cool down. If you have not heard back from her then I would sent a simple, well-written, and thoughtful text or email. 

I feel like I need to reach out today, because we've never let a whole day pass before without talking. That seems like a signal to me that things are over. But you may be right that time would be better.

Is this a long-distance relationship? If so, how far away? If not, is there a reason why you guys cannot see each other a bit - perhaps because of state laws in effect right now? 

We live about 45 minutes away from each other. Same general area. We have tried to see each other at least once a week, but we've been keeping socially distant. So no sleeping together, or kissing/hugging. Though we both have expressed that we hated that and wanted to figure out a way to actually be together, while living apart. It's hard, because nobody wants to get sick, and she has three kids in her home.

How do typical arguments go between you too? Does shoe use language like "I don't believe you" or other lines that belittle you as a person?

Honestly, until recently we didn't argue much at all. She argues very much like she's always right and she remembers everything. She has said something along the lines of "I don't believe you" once or twice in the past, but it's not a pattern. That's one reason I got so upset when I heard it twice in two days.

What's her dating history and overall personality like? 

She is much like me, in her 40s, divorced with teenage kids. She was in an abusive relationship before meeting me. We have rarely argued, and have never been physically abusive with each other by any stretch.

Why were the previous ones failure? What would you characterize in this relationship as being awesome for you, what would you characterize from it as being mature and healthy, and what would you say you guys need to work on?

I would say my marriage failed because we just weren't meant to be together. We didn't communicate well, or really show affection for each other. It wasn't a good decision for us. The two relationships besides my marriage that I was in before this - one failed simply because we lived 1,000 miles apart and couldn't sustain it. We are still friends. The other, she was dismissive of me and flaked constantly I got tired of it and walked away. 

In my current relationship (until now) the communication was always good. We had the same interests. We really were compatible physically (like, all kinds of sex all the time, which we both liked, and which hasn't been the norm for me at this age LOL). We liked each other's families, have similar careers, loved to travel together, etc. 

I would say - now especially - that we have to work on how we communicate when we are upset. That's really why we are where we are. 
 

What do you not mind sharing about yourself and your personality and things such as your love language or attachment style.

My love languages are words of affirmation and physical touch. I'd say my attachment style is largely secure, with occasional tendencies toward anxious when things get bad.

In the short-term I would give her till the end of day tomorrow to cool down. If you have not heard back from her then I would sent a simple, well-written, and thoughtful text or email. 

I feel like I need to reach out today, because we've never let a whole day pass before without talking. That seems like a signal to me that things are over. But you may be right that time would be better.

Edited April 23, 2020 by KBarletta

[preraph]

Just wait and repair this after this is over.  She certainly isn't going anywhere.  She isn't going to be sane enough to talk sensibly to until she's not under all this kid stress.  This isn't about you.  She may be wishing you'd come watch the kids for her, but that's not safe and not your obligation.  Where's the father?

[notbroken]

Just call her and tell her you still want to be together.  You'll have your answer based on her response.  No way should you go be in the midst of 3 kids in this mess.   The other posters are correct - she's pissed at the whole world and not just you.   

 

[KBarletta]

14 minutes ago, preraph said:

Just wait and repair this after this is over.  She certainly isn't going anywhere.  She isn't going to be sane enough to talk sensibly to until she's not under all this kid stress.  This isn't about you.  She may be wishing you'd come watch the kids for her, but that's not safe and not your obligation.  Where's the father?

They are divorced, and the kids live with her. Because of the lockdown, they don't go to see their father much. Also, they're not young. They are older teens, high school age. So they don't require a lot of attention, but they do make noise and make a mess and need to be fed, etc., so I am sure that is stressful.

 

[preraph]

Oh, yes, teens are still stressful.  Guarantee you they are all cranky and driving her crazy and being whiny and arguing with each other.  I guarantee.  Steer clear. 

[KBarletta]

6 minutes ago, notbroken said:

Just call her and tell her you still want to be together.  You'll have your answer based on her response.  No way should you go be in the midst of 3 kids in this mess.   The other posters are correct - she's pissed at the whole world and not just you.   

 

I think that's largely true. I think she is using me as the target for her stress. And on some level, I am probably doing the same thing. Nobody likes this. And hearing the person you love say "I don't believe you" is a dagger to the heart, at least for me it is.

 

[scooby-philly]

17 minutes ago, KBarletta said:

Is this a long-distance relationship? If so, how far away? If not, is there a reason why you guys cannot see each other a bit - perhaps because of state laws in effect right now? 

We live about 45 minutes away from each other. Same general area. We have tried to see each other at least once a week, but we've been keeping socially distant. So no sleeping together, or kissing/hugging. Though we both have expressed that we hated that and wanted to figure out a way to actually be together, while living apart. It's hard, because nobody wants to get sick, and she has three kids in her home.

How do typical arguments go between you too? Does shoe use language like "I don't believe you" or other lines that belittle you as a person?

Honestly, until recently we didn't argue much at all. She argues very much like she's always right and she remembers everything. She has said something along the lines of "I don't believe you" once or twice in the past, but it's not a pattern. That's one reason I got so upset when I heard it twice in two days.

What's her dating history and overall personality like? 

She is much like me, in her 40s, divorced with teenage kids. She was in an abusive relationship before meeting me. We have rarely argued, and have never been physically abusive with each other by any stretch.

Why were the previous ones failure? What would you characterize in this relationship as being awesome for you, what would you characterize from it as being mature and healthy, and what would you say you guys need to work on?

I would say my marriage failed because we just weren't meant to be together. We didn't communicate well, or really show affection for each other. It wasn't a good decision for us. The two relationships besides my marriage that I was in before this - one failed simply because we lived 1,000 miles apart and couldn't sustain it. We are still friends. The other, she was dismissive of me and flaked constantly I got tired of it and walked away. 

In my current relationship (until now) the communication was always good. We had the same interests. We really were compatible physically (like, all kinds of sex all the time, which we both liked, and which hasn't been the norm for me at this age LOL). We liked each other's families, have similar careers, loved to travel together, etc. 

I would say - now especially - that we have to work on how we communicate when we are upset. That's really why we are where we are. 
 

What do you not mind sharing about yourself and your personality and things such as your love language or attachment style.

My love languages are words of affirmation and physical touch. I'd say my attachment style is largely secure, with occasional tendencies toward anxious when things get bad.

In the short-term I would give her till the end of day tomorrow to cool down. If you have not heard back from her then I would sent a simple, well-written, and thoughtful text or email. 

I feel like I need to reach out today, because we've never let a whole day pass before without talking. That seems like a signal to me that things are over. But you may be right that time would be better.

Thanks for the response! Sorry - you and preraph were posting back and forth as I was tying it so I didn't see your message till I posted it about the living situation.

From what you shared it sounds it seems like a good relationship, you sound like you know yourself, and it sounds like you've got a good handle on your past relationships. So as preraph mentioned - it's probably a self-defense mechanism on her part and the anxiety caused by the pandemic and the stress of the kids at home.

I WOULD NOT CALL HER TODAY!!! She knows where to find you and you do not need to beg or grovel. She can wear her big girl panties is she's ready to talk. Reaching out tomorrow and doing something similar to what I suggested shows you respect her space and her time and that you still care about her and that you're sorry. 

It sounds like maybe she needs to work on her reaction to things and identify maybe some leftover baggage from her marriage and you may need to just work on talking through things with her so you're on the same wave length emotionally. Don't give up but set healthy boundaries in your attempts to fix this.

[KBarletta]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

Oh, yes, teens are still stressful.  Guarantee you they are all cranky and driving her crazy and being whiny and arguing with each other.  I guarantee.  Steer clear. 

Yeah. I don't even really like spending the night at her place. Not that I don't like the kids. I love them. It's just ... a bit much. I am at an age where peace and quiet is like gold to me. And for all the bad things about this pandemic, I don't think I have ever had as much quiet time.

[scooby-philly]

2 minutes ago, KBarletta said:

I think that's largely true. I think she is using me as the target for her stress. And on some level, I am probably doing the same thing. Nobody likes this. And hearing the person you love say "I don't believe you" is a dagger to the heart, at least for me it is.

 

That's what she needs to learn and you have to help her understand. You're an adult and mature and healthy and in a loving, caring partnership you take your partner at their word until proven otherwise. And while it could just be a "turn of phrase" she used in a situation that was emotional and attacked your personhood and not something you did or said.

[KBarletta]

1 minute ago, scooby-philly said:

Thanks for the response! Sorry - you and preraph were posting back and forth as I was tying it so I didn't see your message till I posted it about the living situation.

From what you shared it sounds it seems like a good relationship, you sound like you know yourself, and it sounds like you've got a good handle on your past relationships. So as preraph mentioned - it's probably a self-defense mechanism on her part and the anxiety caused by the pandemic and the stress of the kids at home.

I WOULD NOT CALL HER TODAY!!! She knows where to find you and you do not need to beg or grovel. She can wear her big girl panties is she's ready to talk. Reaching out tomorrow and doing something similar to what I suggested shows you respect her space and her time and that you still care about her and that you're sorry. 

It sounds like maybe she needs to work on her reaction to things and identify maybe some leftover baggage from her marriage and you may need to just work on talking through things with her so you're on the same wave length emotionally. Don't give up but set healthy boundaries in your attempts to fix this.

I actually wrote a very short text message that I haven't sent that says the following 
Dear XX -  This is the best relationship I've ever had. I think that’s why I get so upset when we don’t communicate effectively. Because I know we can do so much better. And I want to try. Because I know this - I want to spend my life with you. That hasn’t changed. I love you.

 

[preraph]

And before you do spend your life together, you may have to negotiate some "alone time," though, because she is right that you don't mind it that much.  So that's something to talk about if you ever decide to live together, negotiate your own room where kids and her can't just come in and she won't get mad if you pre-arrange times when you get to hide out a little or go out alone.  I could never do it without having that freedom.  

[KBarletta]

Just now, preraph said:

And before you do spend your life together, you may have to negotiate some "alone time," though, because she is right that you don't mind it that much.  So that's something to talk about if you ever decide to live together, negotiate your own room where kids and her can't just come in and she won't get mad if you pre-arrange times when you get to hide out a little or go out alone.  I could never do it without having that freedom.  

I don't mind being alone, that's true. But I also love being with her. In another two years, her kids will be in college and we have talked about moving in together. I will need my own room anyway because I am required to keep a home office (even before this) for work. So that will be part of the discussion. 
I once really upset her by saying (in front of her family) that I love living alone, and I turned to her and said, "that's why it's a huge compliment to you that I want to live with you. It means you're special." But she was upset that I said I like living by myself. She's brought it up repeatedly in these kinds of situations.

[scooby-philly]

14 minutes ago, KBarletta said:

I actually wrote a very short text message that I haven't sent that says the following 
Dear XX -  This is the best relationship I've ever had. I think that’s why I get so upset when we don’t communicate effectively. Because I know we can do so much better. And I want to try. Because I know this - I want to spend my life with you. That hasn’t changed. I love you.

 

I would be more specific. Because long-term, if you want to be with her and you think this is the right woman/relationship for you, you have to help each other learn to communicate better and express your emotions in a healthier way. But it's definitely not a bad start.

[KBarletta]

2 minutes ago, scooby-philly said:

I would be more specific. Because long-term, if you want to be with her and you think this is the right woman/relationship for you, you have to help each other learn to communicate better and express your emotions in a healthier way. But it's definitely not a bad start.

I guess I didn't want to come off too preachy, like I know exactly how to fix our relationship. But you may be right. I do think we need to not argue when we're upset, but instead give it time and talk calmly instead. Maybe that's why I want to give her time before I reach out. She tends to have a whole new outlook on things after a day or two of thinking about them. And, let's be honest, it's not like she is going out and meeting other people at the moment. But after two years of texting and talking every day, it is VERY noticeable that we aren't communicating. And I am sure she thinks it's more evidence that I want to break up. 

[scooby-philly]

1 minute ago, KBarletta said:

I guess I didn't want to come off too preachy, like I know exactly how to fix our relationship. But you may be right. I do think we need to not argue when we're upset, but instead give it time and talk calmly instead. Maybe that's why I want to give her time before I reach out. She tends to have a whole new outlook on things after a day or two of thinking about them. And, let's be honest, it's not like she is going out and meeting other people at the moment. But after two years of texting and talking every day, it is VERY noticeable that we aren't communicating. And I am sure she thinks it's more evidence that I want to break up. 

Don't EVER ASSUME what's in a woman's head - you know better than that lol!

And I'm not suggesting you come off preachy, far from it. I'm not suggesting you write how to fix it. Just be more detailed about why you felt what you did and how her words hurt you and on top of that - I would add a line to what I said (which you did in what you crafted) about wanting to work on things together. I'm just saying when you do reach out you need to make it clear and in no certain terms how you've been feeling, why you reacted the way you did, and how her words made you feel. Otherwise you're not putting any onus on her to take your feelings into account.