Was it a Breakup or Not?

[Calmandfocused]

Hi op

I won’t get into the detail of your altercation because clearly there is a generalised factor that you need to consider here.  
 

The pandemic has caused lots of couples to face the cold hard facts of their relationships, particularly those who are living apart. Not seeing each other is making you both anxious, stressed, paranoid, not being able to communicate properly, and questioning the future of your relationship. Both of you are niggly and overacting as a result of your anxiety. 

 You’re not on your own Op. Many are in this same boat.  

Why don’t you take this time to analyse your relationship and how you see this going forward? Forget the tiny details. They really are not the most important.

You’ve been together 2 years. You don’t want the responsibility of 3 additional children, she has responsibilities to 3 children. Therefore if the lockdown was lifted tomorrow what happens going forward? 

Have you discussed all this with each other Op? Are you generally on the same path? 

 

[healing light]

Sorry, I guess I just see this woman as making a mountain out of a molehill. She heard what she wanted to hear and decided to go off and feel sorry for herself rather than listen to you saying you didn't intend to break up. It seems childish to me. Badgering you with that statement of loving to live alone for multiple future arguments when you had turned it into a compliment speaks to more of the same in my mind. Interpreting your reminder call as feeling unwanted? If you weren't wanting her you wouldn't have bothered to call her at all.

I think she's being nonsensical and using minor things to push you away during her time of stress. This may be how she handles things when the going gets rough. She probably is out of sorts without being able to physically reconnect during quarantine and so she's taken part of this as neglect or rejection. Maybe she also had a different timeline in her head for moving the relationship forward and moving in given how she has latched onto your loving living alone comment. 

Something tells me she wants you to "fight for her" and come chasing after her. Personally, I think she's a bit old to be doing that in her 40s. You have already made an effort and if you continue to overly apologize I feel she'll take that as more reason that she was wronged. So I think you can send out the one text but I personally wouldn't pursue any more after that. This is on her and at some point she needs to bend and come your way if she values the relationship.

 

[KBarletta]

47 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Hi op

I won’t get into the detail of your altercation because clearly there is a generalised factor that you need to consider here.  
 

The pandemic has caused lots of couples to face the cold hard facts of their relationships, particularly those who are living apart. Not seeing each other is making you both anxious, stressed, paranoid, not being able to communicate properly, and questioning the future of your relationship. Both of you are niggly and overacting as a result of your anxiety. 

 You’re not on your own Op. Many are in this same boat.  

Why don’t you take this time to analyse your relationship and how you see this going forward? Forget the tiny details. They really are not the most important.

You’ve been together 2 years. You don’t want the responsibility of 3 additional children, she has responsibilities to 3 children. Therefore if the lockdown was lifted tomorrow what happens going forward? 

Have you discussed all this with each other Op? Are you generally on the same path? 

 

Yes. We have discussed moving in together when her children go to college. That is about a year and a half away. One of them is going way this fall, the other two next fall. In fact, the day we had the argument I was looking online at townhouses that are in the neighborhood in between the two of us. We'd both have about a 20 minute commute to work. I loved thinking about it. Also, if not for the children, she'd be living with me and honestly none of this would likely be an issue. In fact, I think we'd be better than ever.

[preraph]

Well it sounds like she is overly sensitive on the subject and probably is not going to give you much space or she wouldn't be that upset about it. I think you're going to find that she is not going to want to give you a loan time and is going to take that as an insult which she should not . so you're going to need to look that out or you're going to end up a little bit smothered. And the kids come home after college these days too often. And there will soon be grandkids. 

[healing light]

The more details I get from you, the more I think this is really about her wanting to have already been moved in together. The quarantine probably exacerbated her feelings around this. She probably wanted you to step up, not 6 feet away. So now she's feeling rejected, neglected, etc.

[KBarletta]

Just now, preraph said:

Well it sounds like she is overly sensitive on the subject and probably is not going to give you much space or she wouldn't be that upset about it. I think you're going to find that she is not going to want to give you a loan time and is going to take that as an insult which she should not . so you're going to need to look that out or you're going to end up a little bit smothered. And the kids come home after college these days too often. And there will soon be grandkids. 

You are right. In fact, that is the one issue between us that I think is the most difficult. She takes my need for alone time personally. It's not. It's how I am built. I am an introvert. I need to be alone quite a bit. It's never personal. Never. I just need to recharge. But she's an extrovert and always needs a sounding board. It's a hard path to negotiate. But as for the kids, we've agreed that we'd provide them with an apartment so they can come home for meals and parties, etc., but not for good. We'll see how that works out.

 

[KBarletta]

1 minute ago, healing light said:

The more details I get from you, the more I think this is really about her wanting to have already been moved in together. The quarantine probably exacerbated her feelings around this. She probably wanted you to step up, not 6 feet away. So now she's feeling rejected, neglected, etc.

You're right. But as long as we both still have kids to raise (I have a 17 year old who lives with her mother) we had agreed to live apart. That was, of course, before the global pandemic. That changed everything. Of course that doesn't mean we can all just alter everything we've been doing. I know she feels neglected, rejected. But, really, I have tried very hard to combat that. We have seen each other every week at least once. We talk every day. I send flowers. I send wine. I send food. I make her know she's not alone. And, not to mention the fact that, since this all happened, my mother has had to go to the hospital for a week for cancer surgery (no visitors) and my dog had to be put down. I am reeling, too. I guess I hide it better. LOL

[preraph]

I think you're going to have to give her a good article on being an introvert after this is all over and see if she can have respect for how you are or not. 

[healing light]

From what you've described, I don't think the effort or change needs to be from your side. I think she has some passive aggressive ways of communicating and needs to come to you at this point. Like I said in a previous post, I feel if you grovel or beg she will have more reason to think she's "right" about this and it will probably draw it on longer. If you haven't sent the text yet, I feel you can do that after giving her some time to cool off, but after that, I honestly feel she should be the one to extend an olive branch and take responsibility for her role in the breakdown of the communication. I don't like how she puts words in your mouth or outright rejects your statements of how you're feeling as if you had some secret agenda of reveling in this time by yourself. 

Edited to add: As someone who also needs space, she does need to respect your time to yourself as an introvert. If she can't wrap her head around it and continues to take it personally, I see it as a fundamental incompatibility. If she's mature enough she should understand. This is not a whim that you wish was fulfilled, this is one of your basic needs with any partner.

Edited April 23, 2020 by healing light

[KBarletta]

14 minutes ago, preraph said:

I think you're going to have to give her a good article on being an introvert after this is all over and see if she can have respect for how you are or not. 

I've actually tried that once, and she was a little dismissive of it in a sense. It's funny. She has a daughter who is exactly like me in so many ways and she complains that her daughter spends too much time in her room reading. And I'm usually like, "I can relate."

[preraph]

Wow. How can a child possibly spend too much time reading? I have to tell you I am not optimistic about her attitude about it. I think it's going to be a constant battle. if she can't even accept her own daughter is that way and is criticizing her for reading, you better wait into this real slowly and be sure that's what you want because I don't see her having much give and take.

[KBarletta]

24 minutes ago, healing light said:

From what you've described, I don't think the effort or change needs to be from your side. I think she has some passive aggressive ways of communicating and needs to come to you at this point. Like I said in a previous post, I feel if you grovel or beg she will have more reason to think she's "right" about this and it will probably draw it on longer. If you haven't sent the text yet, I feel you can do that after giving her some time to cool off, but after that, I honestly feel she should be the one to extend an olive branch and take responsibility for her role in the breakdown of the communication. I don't like how she puts words in your mouth or outright rejects your statements of how you're feeling as if you had some secret agenda of reveling in this time by yourself. 

Edited to add: As someone who also needs space, she does need to respect your time to yourself as an introvert. If she can't wrap her head around it and continues to take it personally, I see it as a fundamental incompatibility. If she's mature enough she should understand. This is not a whim that you wish was fulfilled, this is one of your basic needs with any partner.

Thank you for that. I do think that she has a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to need alone time. I have always been with extroverts. And some of them have understood my needs, others not. That's really a small thing in the larger scheme of the relationship, because if not for the global pandemic, we'd be together enough and apart enough to satisfy both of us. It's her who is suffering most right now, because she takes my absence as rejection.

That said, she has always (and has admitted to) allowed her mind to spiral to horrible conclusions when anything wasn't 100 percent concrete. I know she has an anxious attachment style and needs a lot of reassurance, but honestly she consistently will allow herself to jump to conclusions that don't exist. Case in point: Deciding that my call to make sure she was participating in our chat meant that I didn't want to her. Makes no sense to me.

I want to give her time to cool off, but I also want to not take so much time that she thinks I've given up. Like I said, there's no telling where her mind might spiral. She's almost always been able to keep it under control, but sometimes it's just unpredictable what her conclusions might be.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by KBarletta

[KBarletta]

Just now, preraph said:

Wow. How can a child possibly spend too much time reading? I have to tell you I am not optimistic about her attitude about it. I think it's going to be a constant battle. if she can't even accept her own daughter is that way and is criticizing her for reading, you better wait into this real slowly and be sure that's what you want because I don't see her having much give and take.

That's I think more just her concern about her daughter, less about me. Like she wants her daughter to be out making friends and her daughter prefers to sit in her room alone. I don't expect, if we lived together, that this would be as big an issue. 

[preraph]

Well if she's all anxious attachment, then it seems like she maybe be more compromising and nice if you did make her squirm a little. I mean you already been the one that had to calm her down and she's the one that needs to chill out.

[KBarletta]

28 minutes ago, preraph said:

Well if she's all anxious attachment, then it seems like she maybe be more compromising and nice if you did make her squirm a little. I mean you already been the one that had to calm her down and she's the one that needs to chill out.

Yeah. I mean, she has abuse in her past. I don't, really. Not physical anyway. She get squirmy even if I raise my voice. And she definitely needs physical comfort. That's what has made this social distancing thing so hard for her. And she often will allow her mind to spiral to negative places. That's one reason why I want to reach out to her sooner rather than later, because the more time passes, the more time she has to come to false conclusions about what I am thinking or doing. And then we're right back where we were.

[preraph]

I just feel like she needs to do some of the repair work here. She is surely aware of her problems. I mean it's not like she is alone. She has three teens in the house. It's not like you haven't told her that you want to stay with her. Well I hope you work it out. I'm thinking marital counseling before you live with her.

[KBarletta]

47 minutes ago, preraph said:

I just feel like she needs to do some of the repair work here. She is surely aware of her problems. I mean it's not like she is alone. She has three teens in the house. It's not like you haven't told her that you want to stay with her. Well I hope you work it out. I'm thinking marital counseling before you live with her.

I guess my worry is that she is not willing to do so because she's so stressed by the lockdown, etc. I have not heard from her. And she is stubborn. Much more stubborn than me, in terms of this sort of thing. I either reach out, or it's over. That's my feeling.

[preraph]

Just remember however you get started is how you will be stuck doing for the rest of the years. I mean she's got zero reason to be mad at you but is nonetheless being stubborn. 

[kendahke]

6 hours ago, KBarletta said:

We had scheduled an online chat with friends to start at 6:00 and I called her around 5:30 to make sure she was still going to get on the chat. She said yes and we had a brief chat and hung up. She then texted me to say that my calling her made her feel unwanted and that she would not, in fact, be joining me and my friends on the call. I decided to call her then and explain that I was just reminding her about the call and that I still wanted her to participate. She said she didn't believe me.

She sounds like she's been trying to come up with a reason to end things and took advantage of this misunderstanding to accomplish her goal.

I really can't see how she can twist you not wanting her to be a part of the conversation out of you confirming she was going to be a part of the conversation. That's some crazy squirrel algebra she's running there...

Edited April 24, 2020 by kendahke

[KBarletta]

9 hours ago, preraph said:

Just remember however you get started is how you will be stuck doing for the rest of the years. I mean she's got zero reason to be mad at you but is nonetheless being stubborn. 

Her reason for being mad at me was me saying “I can’t live like this” and then agreeing with her that it sounded like a breakup. Maybe me saying that it “sounded” like a break up, but it wasn’t, I guess was really just splitting hairs. She believed it was. So I wouldn’t say zero reason. lol

[contel3]

If she has an anxious attachment style I wouldn't wait too long….her mind is going to spiral even more.

I don't think sending her a nice, heartfelt message would be too much. What you wrote is perfect. Let her calm down after she read it....People act crazy nowadays, it's usually nothing personal. 

[KBarletta]

10 hours ago, kendahke said:

She sounds like she's been trying to come up with a reason to end things and took advantage of this misunderstanding to accomplish her goal.

I really can't see how she can twist you not wanting her to be a part of the conversation out of you confirming she was going to be a part of the conversation. That's some crazy squirrel algebra she's running there...

It does take some mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion, but she does have, like I said, a history of jumping to illogical conclusions, letting her mind go places that don't make a lot of sense. Her mind spirals. That's part of what happens when she says "I don't believe you" - she reaches conclusions on her own about what I am thinking, then if what I say doesn't match those conclusions, she doesn't believe me. She lets herself decide what others are thinking but won't believe what they actually say. That was what I meant when I said "I can't live like this" - I couldn't live with that spiraling and incorrect conclusions and then, me being mistrusted as a result.

[KBarletta]

1 hour ago, contel3 said:

If she has an anxious attachment style I wouldn't wait too long….her mind is going to spiral even more.

I don't think sending her a nice, heartfelt message would be too much. What you wrote is perfect. Let her calm down after she read it....People act crazy nowadays, it's usually nothing personal. 

I guess I worry that she's already reached the conclusion that we've broken up (despite my repeated statements otherwise) and she's done. She's very stubborn and once something is said or done, she's done. So I worry that if I send her a heartfelt message like the one I posted, it will either be ignored or she'll respond negatively, depending especially on the timing. I'm just not sure how to proceed I guess, because I don't know where her mind is right now. 

[contel3]

18 minutes ago, KBarletta said:

I guess I worry that she's already reached the conclusion that we've broken up (despite my repeated statements otherwise) and she's done. She's very stubborn and once something is said or done, she's done. So I worry that if I send her a heartfelt message like the one I posted, it will either be ignored or she'll respond negatively, depending especially on the timing. I'm just not sure how to proceed I guess, because I don't know where her mind is right now. 

You won't know unless you tried no? You've been together for two years, there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. Maybe she'll be relieved and happy. 

You know her best, so maybe she's someone who needs to calm down a day or two, but I think it would be a shame not to try and fix this.

[KBarletta]

21 minutes ago, contel3 said:

You won't know unless you tried no? You've been together for two years, there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. Maybe she'll be relieved and happy. 

You know her best, so maybe she's someone who needs to calm down a day or two, but I think it would be a shame not to try and fix this.

I'll be honest, I'm still pretty upset, shaken up and hurt by her behavior, not believing me and jumping to conclusions, including that we were breaking up. It all seemed to happen so fast. I am still kind of sick to my stomach over it all. So maybe I need to take some time, too. I'm not sure. I don't really want to talk to her while I am feeling this way, but I do eventually. I also want her to know (again) that it's not my intention to end this relationship, but I am still really hurt and upset.