Issues with the complicated relationship between boyfriend's ex and baby mama

[CinderElla97]

My boyfriend has a very complicated relationship with his ex. His baby mama.

I understand they need to be in contact as they have babies together, but I sometimes feel as though they talk a little too much. Or rather, she does.

She messages him a lot. I wouldn’t say they always text like a lot of the time he ignores her messages, but they do message daily.

I know he loves me, and he treats me well, but he has a very intense love/hate kind of thing going on with her.

I don’t think anything has ever happened between them, and I don’t believe that he would want it to, but I can’t get my head around it all.

One minute they will be at each other’s throats having some of the worst arguments I have ever known, yesterdays involved him calling her deluded, crazy, and saying he wishes he had never had the children with her. He gets so mad, frustrated, and filled with hate towards her, but then the next minute they are apologizing and laughing and joking with each other.

From what I can tell, she is usually the one to cause the fights and also the one to end them by apologizing. Yesterday was different; he was the angriest I had seen him towards her, and then he just stopped. She blew up his phone, still raving at him, but he ignored it and apologized for what he had said and agreed he had a lot of work to do to make things right.

He even gave her his new phone number that he has had since December and previously refused to provide her and unblocked and her back onto his Snapchat.

Until then, she could only contact him through Facebook messenger, and they aren’t friends om facebook, just contacts on messenger.

I know the arguments are usually about me as she has made it clear how she feels about me, but I do feel bad as this time it caused a real issue. It wasn’t anything I had done, but my nan died the night before last, and so he was busy comforting me when she asked him to watch the eldest child so she could take the youngest to the hospital.

We live in a different house to her and the children, so he said he couldn’t and said it was because of the lockdown. She saw through this as she knew my nan had died, she is friends with another member of my family. Got angry, and WW3 began.

The child turned out to be fine, but she didn’t tell him this until long after the arguing had stopped. Whether she knew before then or not, I don’t know.

I know there is a fine line between love and hate, and I am wondering if he is walking it. I don’t think he even realizes it himself.

Yesterday’s fight seemed different to any others he has told me about. If I am with him at the time, he reads out her messages and tells me his replies. The way he spoke to and about her, he seemed as though he hated her. But then, just like a switch had been flipped, he stopped and apologized.

I have never known him to apologize after an argument, especially not with her.

Why does he let her get to him like this? How does she make him so angry? And how does he calm down so quick and go back to talking like friends and saying he knows he has making up to do? 

[smackie9]

TBH I would never date someone that had such a volatile relationship with their ex,with no set boundaries on communication, etc. Their issues have simply carried on, and now you are getting exposed to it, making things uneasy for you. Eventually this will spill into your relationship and cause issues if it already hasn't.

The only thing I can suggest is set boundaries with him. For example, no communication with her when you are there. If they want to argue or hash it out, he can take it somewhere else or do it at another time. Suggest to him, you don't want to hear it, know about it, or see it. Deal with his own crap on his own time.

As for why? because they are not compatible, and this is how they have always communicated. If they didn't have a kid, there wouldn't be a reason to talk to each other. It's their dynamic, and some immaturity.

Edited April 24, 2020 by smackie9

[OatsAndHall]

Personally, I would have established a boundary regarding the ex long to try and avoid this level of drama. I've made it abundantly clear to every woman I have dated seriously that I won't see someone who has unnecessary contact with exes. It's not an ultimatum; it's just a deal breaker that is tossed out early to head off garbage.

You're a little late for that as you're already in a pretty serious relationship with the guy. As such, any boundary that you establish will be an ultimatum. But I believe it is necessary at this point if it's stirring up so much chit and you're at the center of it. If I were in your shoes, I would ask him to limit his contact with his ex to a minimum; conversations about the kids and that's it. They're fighting because he's still communicating with her on a personal level and you're getting dragged into it. It doesn't matter if she's initiating the fights as he is feeding into them; all he needs to say is "I won't fight with you about this, g'bye."

I'd sit down have that talk and make it clear that you're tired of the drama being caused by his communication with the ex. Don't make it about anything other than that drama or it'll be construed as "jealous" and "controlling". Ask him to solve the issue by cutting way back on the communication and see how he responds. Hopefully he sees the problems that it's causing and agrees with you. If not, then it's probably time to think about moving on. I can tell you from experience that "ex issues" only go away when one or both sides decide to stop talking.

[CinderElla97]

12 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

TBH I would never date someone that had such a volatile relationship with their ex,with no set boundaries on communication, etc. Their issues have simply carried on, and now you are getting exposed to it, making things uneasy for you. Eventually this will spill into your relationship and cause issues if it already hasn't.

The only thing I can suggest is set boundaries with him. For example, no communication with her when you are there. If they want to argue or hash it out, he can take it somewhere else or do it at another time. Suggest to him, you don't want to hear it, know about it, or see it. Deal with his own crap on his own time.

As for why? because they are not compatible, and this is how they have always communicated. If they didn't have a kid, there wouldn't be a reason to talk to each other. It's their dynamic, and some immaturity.

I have told him i don't want to know what is said between them as then i can not be blamed for things. She blames me for everything, such as if he doesn't see the children she says it is because he is making me a priority above them. She blames me for taking their father away from them and she makes it clear to me. I have recently found out they were still together when me and him got together. I did not know to begin with and even though she would message and tell me i never believed her because she was always blaming me for everything but she has shown me texts and thibgs from between them so i now know she was telling the truth. 

 

From what i have heard they never used to argue or have any real issues in their relationship until their break up

[CinderElla97]

Wouldnt let me edit my previous comment to add.....

 

She has shown me messages from when they were together of him telling her how in love with her he was. The dates of these are only a week before she said they broke up when he told her he had stopped loving her some time ago which i believe he probably means since me and him started talking.

She also showed me messages where they have had brief and vague conversations about sex, or atleast the parts she showed me were vague. Things like him telling her he wanted to know what he wanted to know what she was thinking, explained from start to finish and that he was going to "work out that thought". I dont know how much detail followed as she never showed me anymore than that. The dates of these were all later than a month into our relationship. 

For the most part he ignores her messages and seems as though if she didnt text him that he would be quite happy not hearing from her.

 

Also, we live together so we are pretty much always together.

Edited April 24, 2020 by CinderElla97

[poppyfields]

None of this is good, Cinder, in fact it's the opposite, it's BAD.

And no amount of talking or setting proper boundaries is going to help, this is their dynamic and always will be.

At this point, it's up to you, you either tolerate the drama between them, or you gather as much strength as you can, and leave. 

I know it's hard, you love him, this will be one of the hardest things you ever do in your life for that reason.

But this isn't going to change or get better no matter what you do, I'm sorry

Again this is "their" dynamic, "his" problem, and since you live together, it's now become "your" problem. 

Not a problem worth tolerating imo, but your call, good luck. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

I’ve said this before in other threads. 

If there is this amount of hostility between them then they have  unresolved feelings for each other, irrespective of whether the emotions are positive/ negative or flip flop between the two. 
 

My ex husband was a complete and utter A***hole to me, during the marriage but especially through the divorce. He fought me all the way. However, I don’t hate him, I simply don’t feel anything for him anymore. I’m polite, cordial and friendly to him without being his friend. Why? Because that’s what’s best for my children AND for me. He’s still my children’s father and that’s all he is to me now. 
 

Your situation is completely different. 
 

Bottom line: he isn’t ready to date you or anyone else. He’s not over her! There’s still heightened emotion and dependency to his ex wife which  is not healthy. He needs to resolve that before he can fully commit to you. 

 

 

[CinderElla97]

26 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

I’ve said this before in other threads. 

If there is this amount of hostility between them then they have  unresolved feelings for each other, irrespective of whether the emotions are positive/ negative or flip flop between the two. 
 

My ex husband was a complete and utter A***hole to me, during the marriage but especially through the divorce. He fought me all the way. However, I don’t hate him, I simply don’t feel anything for him anymore. I’m polite, cordial and friendly to him without being his friend. Why? Because that’s what’s best for my children AND for me. He’s still my children’s father and that’s all he is to me now. 
 

Your situation is completely different. 
 

Bottom line: he isn’t ready to date you or anyone else. He’s not over her! There’s still heightened emotion and dependency to his ex wife which  is not healthy. He needs to resolve that before he can fully commit to you. 

 

 

If he didnt care would he still not argue when she says things like what a sh*t fsther he is and how the youngest child doesn't even know him?

Also, like i said, he seems as thougj he would be happy enough to not speak to her if she didn't keep texting him all the time.

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, CinderElla97 said:

If he didnt care would he still not argue when she says things like what a sh*t fsther he is and how the youngest child doesn't even know him?

Also, like i said, he seems as thougj he would be happy enough to not speak to her if she didn't keep texting him all the time.

Cinder, I'm sorry, but I agree with CalmandFocused, 100%.

There is a thin line between love and hate and no one becomes "that" enraged when there's not still very strong and intense feelings.

Of course he will tell you otherwise, that he'd be happy if they never talked again, what would you expect him to say?

He has the power to end this nonsense, but he's not.  Why do you think that is?  

Because on some level, a very toxic dysfunctional level, he enjoys all this drama and craziness, it keeps him connected to her. 

If me, I'd be outta there, and it actually was me a while back.

I was dating a guy who was still entangled with a woman whom he referred to as his crazy unstable ex; tried to pull me into their drama.

Claimed he was completely over her, she was this, that, the other thing, none of it good.  He even admitted their fights were so bad at times, it became mutually physically violent. 

I didn't go for it, big red flags waving, and left.

Next thing I know, he sent me a text telling me they were back together, she had just moved back in with him! 

Please be careful here. Protect your heart.  He is definitely not over her even if he believes he is. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

I think you’ve misunderstood what I’m trying to say to you. 
 

He does care! Very much. And he still cares very much about her and vice versa. 
 

I went back and re-read your earlier posts. I didn’t spot it as first but it seems your relationship started as you being the affair partner.
 

On top of everything else your partner is a liar! I wouldn’t trust a word he says. 
 

The reality is that he was still with his wife 6 months ago and jumped straight into a relationship with you.  That is not enough time to get over someone who you have had children with. 
 

I suspect he’s still In love with her and she with him. I also suspect that you’re his rebound and he’s going to break your heart. 
 

Protect yourself op and think about what’s best and right for you. 

[CinderElla97]

If she doesn't message him he can go days, even weeks without speaking to her sometimes. They quite often went around 2 weeks with no contact at one point as he kept blpcking her and would only unblock her to text and as how the children were. After that they went 2 months with no contact as this time she blocked him and then popped back up out of nowhere. Admittedly when she unvlocked him he did seem to be the one texting the mpst to begin with after they met up and he went to her house to see the children it wasn't long before she started texting all the time again and thats when the arguments started to creep back in

[poppyfields]

Not to pile it on, cause I know you're hurting, but one thing I don't quite understand is - the title of this thread is "Issues with Boyfriend's Ex."

Not just you Cinder, I see this all over, but why is it always the ex's fault? 

Ok she texts him ad nauseam but like I said, HE has the power to end that IF he wanted to. 

Not for two weeks or two months, not by dramatically blocking her, then unblocking, rinse, repeat which is further proof of his intense emotions towards her.  People without strong emotions just don't behave that way, they just don't. 

There are so many ways he could have shut this down, forever, and still remained available to discuss their child, when needed. 

But they're not even arguing about their child, they're arguing about you and god only knows what else, nonsense imo to keep the connection alive. 

This isn't about issues with his ex, it's about issues with your boyfriend, why he's allowing this nonsense to continue and hasn't shut it down. 

I'm sorry Cinder, please protect your heart, he certainly won't.  

Edited April 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[kendahke]

3 hours ago, CinderElla97 said:

he has a very intense love/hate kind of thing going on with her.

Why does he let her get to him like this? How does she make him so angry? And how does he calm down so quick and go back to talking like friends and saying he knows he has making up to do? 

Indifference is the opposite of love.

Hate is angry love.

I'd be very careful if he's still this emotionally triggered by her to muster up hate.  Until he's gotten to indifferent with her, expect more of the same.

Quote

I went back and re-read your earlier posts. I didn’t spot it as first but it seems your relationship started as you being the affair partner.

If this is the case, then I'm not surprised she's launching nuclear warheads at you. 

Yeah, I wouldn't hold out much hope for this relationship to go any distance. At the end of the day, she's the mother of his children and her relationship did not devolve because she lost interest--she's doing what any woman in the same position would do: fighting for her family. Doesn't matter what anyone else on the outside thinks---they're bound by those children. He knows and she knows it and on some level you know it. 

This is what falls out in experience when you have an affair with someone already in a relationship.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by kendahke

[CinderElla97]

So no matter she said, no matter how much of a deadbeat dad and whatever else that she called him, if he didn't care for her, he wouldn't argue back?

Edited April 24, 2020 by CinderElla97

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, CinderElla97 said:

And how does he calm down so quick and go back to talking like friends and saying he knows he has making up to do? 

He has to take into account that her emotional state and views will impact his kids, and that he has no choice about staying in contact. That is probably moderating his reactions.

Seeing her regularly MAY be retriggering feelings for her. You are right to be worried about that and I agree this is a case where boundaries need to be set up.

You should realize that, if you stay with him, you're going to be dealing with this one way or another AT LEAST until his kids have all turned 18 and possibly longer. Something for you to think about.

[kendahke]

5 minutes ago, CinderElla97 said:

So no matter she said, no matter how much of a deadbeat dad and whatever else that she called him, if he didn't care for her, he wouldn't argue back?

What is he doing? He's staying engaged... because he's getting something out of it.

[CinderElla97]

I wonder if that is why he pulls out of seeing them. When he has been to hers to see the children he comes home telling me of intentions to see them for whatever plans they have arranged whilst he is there but then he almost never follows through on them. Normally saying because they have had a fight and it will be awkward

[CinderElla97]

2 minutes ago, kendahke said:

What is he doing? He's staying engaged... because he's getting something out of it.

I always assumed he spoke to try and keep the peace. To keep her sweet in a way, so that it was easier to see the children

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, CinderElla97 said:

So no matter she said, no matter how much of a deadbeat dad and whatever else that she called him, if he didn't care for her, he wouldn't argue back?

Correct.  He would consider the source and wouldn't care what she thought of him.

"That's" indifference. 

He'd be setting strong boundaries making it abundantly clear that she should not contact him unless absolutely necessary re their child.

When she begins ranting and raving, he would be immediately shutting her down, suddenly ending the call if need be. Or ignoring her texts.

The fact he becomes so emotional by her opinion of him is telling!  

Why should he care?  Again, he should be considering the source and know why she lashes out. 

If he didnt still have strong feelings, he just wouldn't care.

Edited April 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[CinderElla97]

He does ignore the texts for a while. Sometimes she will just stop and then he will reply sometime later. Other times she will continue to rave at him blowing up his phone every 5 minutes until he eventually replies and argues back

[preraph]

Don't ever assume they never have sex.  They're in too much contact. I guess they didn't go through court.  You can set it up where you can only communicate through an app that keeps everything and can be used in court and has rules you only talk about the child when necessary, nothing else.  So he's choosing to banter with her and no telling what else they might get up to.  Clearly she wants to run off any other women, so you know she's probably trying to bed him.  I wouldn't stay in a situation like that.  The fact her gave her that new number isn't a good sign.  You might let him know a judge can tell them to keep communications to those apps for parents sharing custody, but I bet he's not really interested in it.  

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, CinderElla97 said:

He does ignore the texts for a while. Sometimes she will just stop and then he will reply sometime later. Other times she will continue to rave at him blowing up his phone every 5 minutes until he eventually replies and argues back

Cinder, I am confused.   May I ask why you started this thread? 

Your posts suggest you seem confident he has no feelings left for her.  As every post claiming he does has been countered by you justifying his actions and reactions. 

Perhaps it's what I said earlier, either accept that there will always be this toxic dynamic between them, or leave.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

[CinderElla97]

15 minutes ago, preraph said:

Don't ever assume they never have sex.  They're in too much contact. I guess they didn't go through court.  You can set it up where you can only communicate through an app that keeps everything and can be used in court and has rules you only talk about the child when necessary, nothing else.  So he's choosing to banter with her and no telling what else they might get up to.  Clearly she wants to run off any other women, so you know she's probably trying to bed him.  I wouldn't stay in a situation like that.  The fact her gave her that new number isn't a good sign.  You might let him know a judge can tell them to keep communications to those apps for parents sharing custody, but I bet he's not really interested in it.  

I don't believe they have had sex. He has only been to her house once in the last 5 months. Because they were arguing and blocking eachother and then just as they got back in contact and he started to see the children we went into lockdown. He went there one week and then then was due to go back a few days later and pulled out and then he had one of the children, the eldest, the following week, he was due to go back again the next day for the childs birthday but they had argued as she found out that i was with him the previous day when he had the child. I did not interact with the child and stayed well away from both of them other than them coming in my car. It was a mutual friends daughters birthday party and i took my neice so i wasn't there to be apart of what was happening between him and the child only to be apart of the party but she still wasn't happy about it at all and kicked off at him. I didn't know she didn't know i was going. I had told him i did not want to cause any issues by going

 

 

Also. We live in the UK. As far as i am aware we do not have any apps like that here. Or atleast i have never heard of them. But np, they have not been through any courts at all. He threatened it once in an argument when she told him she was seeing someone as he said he did not want another man around the children if she would not allow me to be around them.

Edited April 24, 2020 by CinderElla97

[CinderElla97]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Cinder, I am confused.   May I ask why you started this thread? 

Your posts suggest you seem confident he has no feelings left for her.  As every post claiming he does has been countered by you justifying his actions and reactions. 

Perhaps it's what I said earlier, either accept that there will always be this toxic dynamic between them, or leave.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

I started this thread as i was curious as to why they would argue. But mostly because the ladt argument was different. He was the one to back down and apologise first this time and i have never known him to do that before.

[poppyfields]

5 minutes ago, CinderElla97 said:

I started this thread as i was curious as to why they would argue. But mostly because the ladt argument was different. He was the one to back down and apologise first this time and i have never known him to do that before.

Okay fair enough.

We've said our peace, which we all agree upon, he still has strong feelings for her.

Your turn, what do you think the reasons are? 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by poppyfields