Pursuing vs. Making Contact

[Afellow]

Over the years, there have been a number of situations in which women reacted as though I were trying to pursue them in some way, when I wasn't. When I ask my friends about this, they say that it's perfectly fine to "make contact" with women, but they usually go on to say that "if she's not interested, you need to respect that and move on." I have never pursued a woman before, so this has been frustrating. I believe their default assumption is that I WAS trying to pursue that woman, even though I swore that I wasn't. To me, this seems like making contact IS pursuing. So, is this just an inevitable subtext of a man making contact with a woman? And if so, how do we navigate these interactions respectfully, knowing that our contact with women will be perceived as aggression?

[basil67]

Let's roll back a bit - if pursuit wasn't your intention, what was your reason for making contact with them?

[Afellow]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Let's roll back a bit - if pursuit wasn't your intention, what was your reason for making contact with them?

Just average, everyday kind of contact: casual conversation at work, or someone working at a store or even back in college this happened quite a bit

[preraph]

This is a problem that a lot of women have in the reverse. if they are very social and chat with different people even though they don't have attraction to them, a lot of men assume they have interest in them and are attracted to them. 

 

It's a little less common of a problem the way you are experiencing it. There are going to be women who are a little defensive and don't want a guy to get the wrong idea. If they turn you away in some way, just peel it back to being polite and professional. but there should be plenty of people who can just talk to each other in the office without anyone thinking the other is hitting on them. I'm assuming you already know the rules that you don't compliment people on their appearance at the office or Mike overly personal comments. 

 

in general it's good to be gregarious and talk to people so don't let a couple that it freaks out who might think it's creepy stop you from doing it with others. you already know when they don't like it so you just come in your behavior and don't try to keep it up with those people. If you're nice to everyone they should realize that you're just nice to everyone and that it's not targeting you. So be sure you're not just talking to young attractive women but are also being nice to men and women of all ages and appearance because yes women certainly notice that. I've worked in offices before were the only women any of the men no matter what age they were talked to were the youngest ones, and yes that is creepy.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Hi...so why do you think they believe you were pursuing them? I mean, did they say this? Maybe you could give an example. Like, how did it go down one of these times? That could provide some clues. I only say that because you seem to be saying it's happened a few times/multiple times. If it were just once in a blue moon or something I'd probably think they just made a mistake and misinterpreted the situation. How often does this happen?

[Afellow]

27 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Hi...so why do you think they believe you were pursuing them? I mean, did they say this? Maybe you could give an example. Like, how did it go down one of these times? That could provide some clues. I only say that because you seem to be saying it's happened a few times/multiple times. If it were just once in a blue moon or something I'd probably think they just made a mistake and misinterpreted the situation. How often does this happen?

It's hard to explain how I know. The situations at work are the easiest to prove because it comes back to me, eventually, that the person thinks I "have a crush" on her. For instance, there was someone who sat next to the mail room, and I would say "hello" and ask how things are going, when I was getting the mail. The only other examples I have that aren't work-related that are easy to explain are women who have preemptively rejected me: at a grocery store I was trying to return a woman's wallet and she preemptively rejected me before I could explain that she dropped her wallet, and another time, I was asking a clerk if they're open on Thanksgiving, and she said "not interested" and walked away. There are plenty of other examples, where I was told later that her reaction was basically a rejection, but those are difficult to explain. It's more of a conversation I had later on with a friend who basically said "that just means she's not interested." Things like: sending someone an email on MySpace about her cool Photoshops, asking someone in college what she thought of the assignment, asking what floor she needs in the elevator, asking where the bathroom is and so on. Things that I think are relatively innocuous.

[basil67]

Whatever is going on, it's very likely related to what you wrote about here 

 

[poppyfields]

@Afellow, I can relate as this happened to me once; I found it confounding but also amusing, even now many years later! 

I recall being at a party, alone, and while standing about chatting with different people, I began casually chatting with a man and he immediately announced, like two seconds into the convo literally, "just want you to know before we get further into this that I have a girlfriend."

Trust me I had like ZERO interest in this guy, gave not even a hint that I was interested, nothing flirty, just small talk for like two seconds! 

And he says that to me, lol.

I responded "good for you, hope it works out for ya"! And walked away.

Funny thing is, after that, at the party, and then at another function I saw him at afterwards, he kept trying to talk to me and get my attention!

I don't know what's up with people sometimes.  I've had guys who I talked to only casual, just to be friendly, become belligerent when they would ask for my number and I turned them down.  Accusing me of "misleading" them with my "friendliness."

So what's the answer, stop being a friendly person? Lol

Just chalk it up to some people being weird, continue being you, and stop worrying what anyone thinks.   

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[Afellow]

55 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Whatever is going on, it's very likely related to what you wrote about here 

 

I considered that, however, the 'vibe' that I was referring to in that thread is definitely not flirtatious, I've been told. Whenever I make an attempt to ask friends about these situations, the vibe doesn't come up, they merely say that I need to "respect that she's not interested."

[CaliforniaGirl]

37 minutes ago, Afellow said:

I considered that, however, the 'vibe' that I was referring to in that thread is definitely not flirtatious, I've been told. Whenever I make an attempt to ask friends about these situations, the vibe doesn't come up, they merely say that I need to "respect that she's not interested."

Can't you ask the friends to elaborate? Something's going on here if they're warning you off, and if they're real friends they'll tell you what it is. I mean you may just be a close talker or something. Or hold eye contact for a long time...I don't know, but there's a pattern here and it's bothering you, so ask your friends. There could be a really simple fix.

[Afellow]

52 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Can't you ask the friends to elaborate? Something's going on here if they're warning you off, and if they're real friends they'll tell you what it is. I mean you may just be a close talker or something. Or hold eye contact for a long time...I don't know, but there's a pattern here and it's bothering you, so ask your friends. There could be a really simple fix.

I have tried asking my friends for more details. Typically what happens is that they sort of backpedal and suggest that maybe they're wrong and then that's the end of it. I get the feeling that it's one of those things that people only begrudgingly talk about. But maybe that's just my friends. There have actually been a couple times where it was a friend of a friend that thought I was flirting, and i pressed the issue with my friend, asking what I did to make his friend think that, but I may have pushed too hard, because that woman's name never comes up in conversation any more.

[snowboy91]

Part of me is getting the feeling that you seem to be focusing on people who are a bit on edge - they jump to the conclusion that the only reason a guy talks to them is because he's interested. It may not happen with everyone, even though it feels like it.

That being said, is there something about your body language or your choice of words that could give them the wrong impression? I know your friends try to avoid talking about it, but rather than pushing the issue, say it's something you want to work on.

[CaliforniaGirl]

39 minutes ago, Afellow said:

I have tried asking my friends for more details. Typically what happens is that they sort of backpedal and suggest that maybe they're wrong and then that's the end of it. I get the feeling that it's one of those things that people only begrudgingly talk about. But maybe that's just my friends. There have actually been a couple times where it was a friend of a friend that thought I was flirting, and i pressed the issue with my friend, asking what I did to make his friend think that, but I may have pushed too hard, because that woman's name never comes up in conversation any more.

But here's the thing. We here can't see or interact with you so we can literally never tell you what it is. Ask the person closest to you. If he backpedals, say, "Come on. Don't do that. You're my friend and this has been going on for years. I need to know."

If he still refuses then I'd start to wonder what I was doing to make everybody nervous, not just women. I'm really sorry to put it that way. If your friends are literally afraid to tell you one simple thing since college -  is that 10 years? 15 years? More? ...something is up and it's kind of big, IMO.

But bottom line: we here can *never* tell you what it is, and that's that. I'm sorry, and I hope you figure out what it is or if not, that you don't let something that really doesn't affect you (you say you didn't want them that way and you already have friends, what are you missing out on?) bother you anymore.

Edited April 25, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Yosemite]

4 hours ago, Afellow said:

There have actually been a couple times where it was a friend of a friend that thought I was flirting, and i pressed the issue with my friend, asking what I did to make his friend think that

Why don't you tell us? What did you say to her?
 

Quote

For instance, there was someone who sat next to the mail room, and I would say "hello" and ask how things are going, when I was getting the mail.

I don't know many men who do things like this when they aren't interested or trying to get something started. Yeah, some gregarious guys do, but I'm just guessing that you're not an outgoing, super social guy. So, right or wrong, it comes across as an attempt at flirting when you do it.

Are the women who you're "approaching" about your same age and attractiveness level?

Edited April 25, 2020 by Yosemite

[preraph]

You should know that usually men are not overly friendly to women they are not sexually attracted to.  Again, if you are only "being nice" to young attractive women, everyone in the office has made note of that and is judging accordingly.  If, however, you have a pal rapport with the plump 55 year old and go to lunch casually sometimes, people will make a note of that and just regard you as friendly. 

 

I hope you're being honest with us here, because to be honest, like a lot of these women, I too am having a hard time believing you are "just being friendly" and aren't hoping for more.  I think that is probably the vibe.  But if you tell me you are friendly across the board to the women in the office, regardless of age, marital status, or looks, I will happily concede that I am wrong.  

 

May I ask, are your looks below, average or above average, and how old are you?  

[primer]

I have friends like this. Just because a guy talks to them they think they are getting hit on.

For example: One friend was a bartender. She was telling me that "Joe" always talks to her. Ummm . . . . . You are the bartender. "Joe" is always at the bar. "Joe" is going to talk to you.

 

[Afellow]

11 hours ago, snowboy91 said:

Part of me is getting the feeling that you seem to be focusing on people who are a bit on edge - they jump to the conclusion that the only reason a guy talks to them is because he's interested. It may not happen with everyone, even though it feels like it.

That being said, is there something about your body language or your choice of words that could give them the wrong impression? I know your friends try to avoid talking about it, but rather than pushing the issue, say it's something you want to work on.

I've definitely considered that it might be something I'm doing. Starting in college, I started reading up on body language and trying to figure out if there is something I'm doing, but I didn't come to any solid answers on that. It might very well be something I'm doing, but the closest I ever got to getting feedback was one person who said that I send out "vibes" that make people uncomfortable, but she wouldn't elaborate.

 

11 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

But here's the thing. We here can't see or interact with you so we can literally never tell you what it is. Ask the person closest to you. If he backpedals, say, "Come on. Don't do that. You're my friend and this has been going on for years. I need to know."

If he still refuses then I'd start to wonder what I was doing to make everybody nervous, not just women. I'm really sorry to put it that way. If your friends are literally afraid to tell you one simple thing since college -  is that 10 years? 15 years? More? ...something is up and it's kind of big, IMO.

But bottom line: we here can *never* tell you what it is, and that's that. I'm sorry, and I hope you figure out what it is or if not, that you don't let something that really doesn't affect you (you say you didn't want them that way and you already have friends, what are you missing out on?) bother you anymore.

These are excellent points. No one on the internet can really know what I'm doing in real life to get these reactions. I suppose I'm reaching out online hoping to get more varied feedback than I could in real life, which seems to be working. Also, I never really questioned why my friends are reluctant to talk about it, but I wonder now if I'm making THEM uncomfortable too.

 

7 hours ago, Yosemite said:

Why don't you tell us? What did you say to her?
 

I don't know many men who do things like this when they aren't interested or trying to get something started. Yeah, some gregarious guys do, but I'm just guessing that you're not an outgoing, super social guy. So, right or wrong, it comes across as an attempt at flirting when you do it.

Are the women who you're "approaching" about your same age and attractiveness level?

True, I'm not a very social guy. The ages and attractiveness levels have varied, but it's not just young, attractive women. As for what I said to that woman to make her think I was flirting: I honestly do not remember what I said to her. It was at a birthday party (this is years ago, now) and, even when it was fresh in my mind, I don't recall anything out of the ordinary. It was just a casual conversation, just sort of small talk. Maybe she thought I was flirting because it was sort of meaningless small talk? 

 

1 hour ago, preraph said:

You should know that usually men are not overly friendly to women they are not sexually attracted to.  Again, if you are only "being nice" to young attractive women, everyone in the office has made note of that and is judging accordingly.  If, however, you have a pal rapport with the plump 55 year old and go to lunch casually sometimes, people will make a note of that and just regard you as friendly. 

 

I hope you're being honest with us here, because to be honest, like a lot of these women, I too am having a hard time believing you are "just being friendly" and aren't hoping for more.  I think that is probably the vibe.  But if you tell me you are friendly across the board to the women in the office, regardless of age, marital status, or looks, I will happily concede that I am wrong.  

 

May I ask, are your looks below, average or above average, and how old are you?  

What you say about men usually being friendly only to women they're attracted to: this was definitely part of a theory I had going back to my days in college. I thought men can't really interact without that baggage, but since I've been opening up about my experiences, people have tried to tell me that men and women interact all the time without that baggage. It makes more sense to me that women would at least consider the possibility that men have some kind of an agenda. As for friendliness, I am mostly shy and reserved, and over the years, I've gotten into the habit of mostly avoiding people. I'm 43 and I'd say I'm below-average looks. As I was approaching 40, I started to question how anybody could possibly meet someone of the opposite sex, when there is this subtext of aggression, so I started talking to people about this, and I've gotten varied feedback, everything from people thinking I'm making this up, to people thinking I really am flirtatious but not admitting it. It's been interesting to have these conversations (mostly online) but ultimately frustrating, because my experiences don't seem to match anybody else's.

[preraph]

Maybe you are somehow giving mixed body language signals or something.  

You never did say whether you're being friendly to all or only ones you're attracted to.  If it's the latter, they have radar for this.  

[Afellow]

2 minutes ago, preraph said:

Maybe you are somehow giving mixed body language signals or something.  

You never did say whether you're being friendly to all or only ones you're attracted to.  If it's the latter, they have radar for this.  

For the better part of the past ten years, my general rule of thumb is that I don't make contact with people anymore: I wait for THEM to talk to me first. Many of these experiences I'm referring to are from before that time. Years ago, (back in college) I was trying to overcome shyness, so I was talking to everybody, and that is when all this started. (I noticed that older, married women were receptive to my contact, but not younger women.) In my early to mid-twenties, I started to get a complex about it, and eventually, it turned into me avoiding people and only talking to people who talk to me first. For instance: the woman who sat next to the mail room: the only reason I would talk to her is because she talked to me first.

[preraph]

 Nothing wrong with being open, smiley and approachable with everyone . But of course, some people will not react or wonder whats' up, but don't let it stop you from being nice to others.  Just don't invade personal space or that sort of thing.  Don't compliment in a personal way or about their looks.  Just keep it light and about whats' around you. 

[SumGuy]

Have you consider how close you are in distance to the person when you interact?  There is a very sub-conscious response to this and different cultures and upbringing have different distances.