Have you ever been told, I trust you, I just don't trust HIM\HER.

[NeverDoneLearning]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

Everyone has different expectations. I have seen enough BS in my own past relationships, and some others, not to mention years of the cheating forum right on this site. In my experience, the ladies that keep guy friends around, it's just best to be one of their guy friends, not the boyfriend. The boyfriends come and go since most of them aren't happy about the gaggle of guys around their girl all the time. It's not just a matter of me being cheated on in the past since I have also been the guy friend. I have a female friend now that I have known for years and all of her boyfriends have to put up with her being friends with me. She lies to all of them about how we have never done anything because it's easier for her that way. None of her boyfriends ever knew she lived with me for 6 months. 

IMO, if someone is serious about their relationship and they really want it to work, they will shelve those opposite sex friendships. Asking someone to trust you when you got a bunch of guys around just doesn't work all that well. 

And yes, I practice what I preach here. 

I think you're losing focus on the actual original post here, Enigma32. No where in my posts did I describe "a bunch of guys around", and also included the fact they have been nothing other than friends. Not relationships and in group settings. To clarify further, "nothing other than friends" means not secretly living with one for 6 months and omitting that information as you've mentioned, or FWB type situations.

I can only assume that when you're describing that, you've let you past boyfriend/guyfriend experiences paint a picture that isn't this one. Filling in your own blanks instead of asking questions or attempting to clarify. You're assumptions are incorrect.

If you trust your GF then you trust her, regardless of guyfriends or anything else. If you don't, then you don't and should probably bail as you mentioned, but don't stay with her and clip her wings. I'd say that behaviour most likely would nurture resentment and mistrust on her part leading to an inevitable end anyway. Whether she wises up and realizes how one sided her relationship is, or the constant state of distrust makes her resent you. OR she figures that since you think she's gonna cheat anyway so she might as well have a reason to deserve it. Jealousy and insecurity never stopped someone from cheating, and I've observed that it actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy some of the time. 

[Woggle]

1 hour ago, preraph said:

It's nice to be that way, Woggle.  Unfortunately, I guess it's not all that common, but especially when people are younger.  It's hard to find someone who won't give into temptation under the right circumstances.  

I guess so but the way I feel is that she has my complete and total trust but she only gets it one time. If she ever betrays that trust then it is gone for good and we are splitting. That has not happened and we have been married 14 years so I am not worried. You can't function in society today without interacting with the opposite sex and as much as some people on social media would probably love gender segregation it is not happening anytime soon.

[preraph]

Yes, it is gone for good once it's breached.  It's just about loyalty and how much you care if you hurt another person you supposedly care so much about.  It really diminishes a person.  

[central]

The only way that statement does NOT indicate a lack of trust is if they believe the other person is capable of rape. Otherwise, it means they don't trust you not to succumb to seduction or perhaps drunkeness, etc.

[NeverDoneLearning]

11 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I guess so but the way I feel is that she has my complete and total trust but she only gets it one time. If she ever betrays that trust then it is gone for good and we are splitting. That has not happened and we have been married 14 years so I am not worried. You can't function in society today without interacting with the opposite sex and as much as some people on social media would probably love gender segregation it is not happening anytime soon.

Love this. It hits the nail on the head and aligns with my ideals and outlook as well.

I believe everyone deserves a basic level of trust at first meeting. As your relationship grows so should that trust. If it doesn't for some reason people tend to think that its something to control, manage, or even micro-manage. I've been in enough of those situations to know that its an impossible feat for either party. 

I am not a jealous person and that in itself has induced feelings from partners in the past. At this point it's something that I actually say upfront at the beginning of getting to know someone because there's been people who doubt my commitment to them if I'm not side eyeing anyone who they interact with. I do distinguish the fact that it isn't that I wouldn't be deeply hurt from inappropriate interactions because I very much would be and have been. It is that I know in my heart if that person wants something other than me that I wouldn't ever feel good enough, fulfilled or fully committed to and I'll always be wondering. That's not the life I want and I can't imagine being with one person when you're heart or penis wants someone else as fulfilling either.

I fully agree that trust should be given until proven otherwise. Thank you for your comment.

[NeverDoneLearning]

12 minutes ago, central said:

The only way that statement does NOT indicate a lack of trust is if they believe the other person is capable of rape. Otherwise, it means they don't trust you not to succumb to seduction or perhaps drunkeness, etc.

I actually used that example! aside from being physically overwhelmed by someone and being assaulted or raped, the choice to be appropriate or inappropriate falls on my shoulders. Regardless of any ones intention in any situation. Even being drunk as you suggested could be a blurry line for myself and worry but that is not a variable in my situation and I would never expect it to be OK.

Thanks for the comment!

[Emilie Jolie]

I heard it once, and as you said in your OP, it was a toxic relationship. - a nightmare, even. If I heard it again, I would find it very difficult to stay put unless my partner was to embark on a very serious period of self-introspection, preferably guided by a professional, so as to explain why he has such a deep-rooted trust issue. Unfounded trust issues are the worst to deal with. In my experience, it led to paranoia, a heightened sense of jealousy and control issues. Not great.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[MsJayne]

I think if your partner gets a bad vibe from one of your opposite sex friends then they probably have good reason to feel a little miffed and insecure if you insist on maintaining the friendship. Sometimes we're a little too caught up in the friendship trip to realise that someone has the hots for us, but our partner can see it clearly. I've also been on the other side of it,  where a partners female friend has completely ignored me, and then the partner has denied that his friend has been rude and it's signalled the beginning of the end. If your partner feels this way about every other guy you're friends with then that's a problem, but if it's just one other guy, then he's probably right. Depending on whether your relationship is committed or just casual you may need to think about who's more important in your life, your partner or the friend. No matter how much integrity we have, it's disloyal to maintain a friendship with someone who doesn't respect your relationship. 

[NeverDoneLearning]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

It's nice to be that way, Woggle.  Unfortunately, I guess it's not all that common, but especially when people are younger.  It's hard to find someone who won't give into temptation under the right circumstances.  

It is true that we aren't in a perfect world.. People cheating all the time is a fact and it sucks. I believe that we all have potential to do things we shouldn't or would never dream of doing, and as you say under the right circumstance it could quite literally happen to anyone. The simple part is if that does happen, you leave. That's a black and white issue for me. I'm sure there are certain what ifs and maybes but I'd say that's all but non-existent in my world. You can't throw someone in jail because you think there's a chance they might, under the right circumstance, kill someone because I quite literally believe we'd all be in jail. Risk exists in all parallels. Emotional risk might feel harder to some than say physical or financial risk but whats the reasonable alternative? Loveless and lifeless. You need to keep looking for the person who DOES fit the ideals. Each experience teaches you something and lessons whether good or bad pertain exactly to the next.

 

[NeverDoneLearning]

45 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I heard it once, and as you said in your OP, it was a toxic relationship. - a nightmare, even. If I heard it again, I would find it very difficult to stay put unless my partner was to embark on a very serious period of self-introspection, preferably guided by a professional, so as to explain why he has such a deep-rooted trust issue. Unfounded trust issues are the worst to deal with. In my experience, it led to paranoia, a heightened sense of jealousy and control issues. Not great.

You're right and thank you for sharing. 

The reason I chose to reach out about this is I have, like yourself been in a nightmarish situation. It ended up that he was a narcissistic METH USER (be careful dating online!). He obviously was not upfront about anything that would hurt his chances so I had no idea.  Looking back now it of course makes so much sense but needless to say he was a chore of a human being and somehow convinced me it was my fault. He yelled and screamed and threatened to come to my house and "visit" which the police couldn't do anything about and the rest goes on and on. I'm pretty convinced I've looked directly into the eyes of the devil through that man. 

The man I'm posting about is quite literally the most gentle, caring and supportive person I may have ever met. He communicates and listens. He brings up concerns (hence my post) in a calm manner and while maybe we don't agree it's not a traumatic experience like I've seen before from others. I do believe he has insecurities though, as we all do. My part of this disagreement is obvious as I am like you in the way that it triggers warnings and flashbacks of the literal worst person I've ever had the displeasure of being in the same room as. BUT that person was a terrible person and isn't this person. Just like he demonstrates to me I try to reach him in a different way by trying to understand and getting outside perspective like I am here. I believe we make a good team but I want to be better. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by NeverDoneLearning

[Emilie Jolie]

3 minutes ago, NeverDoneLearning said:

I do believe he may be a bit misguided in the way he feels or words he uses or unaware of things he's carrying that have made their way into our relationship but I don't believe he's got any more or less baggage then I do.

Fair enough. This may just be a mild case of patronising / infantilising, then? How long have you known him? You seem to care about this relationship a good deal, and proceeding with no prejudice but with informed caution is a good way forward. Hopefully you'll find a way to see eye-to-eye on this.

[NeverDoneLearning]

42 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Let's say for the sake of argument that none of your guy friends are old flames, FWBs, ex boyfriends, and you've never done anything sexual with any of them. If you say that is true, I will believe you, but the truth is, that would be pretty damn rare. The problem is, a lot of guys have been burned like this before and most ladies are just straight up dishonest about it. They do like my friend and deny anything ever happening just because that's the only way to keep the peace with the new BF.

I believe in people earning trust. I don't just give that away. My GF acts in such a way that questioning her loyalty at this point would make me look like a fool. That's because she never puts herself in a situation where her loyalty would ever be an issue. She won't even accept a friend request on FB from a guy friend. That isn't even anything I ever asked her to do...she just did it on her own because that's how she prefers things. I have followed her lead and adopted the same stance on social media. 

Back to your original question. Like I said, men know how other men are...this is why we say what we say. I've seen far too many relationships end because of the guy "friend." 

I've seen far too many relationships end for a lot of reasons. One of mine almost ended in a car accident. I lived thankfully and it didn't end at that point but that doesn't mean my next boyfriend gets to tell me he doesn't trust me driving a car for any other reason than I've demonstrated I can't to him.

I'm not arguing that "a lot of guys have been burned" but I also don't see what that has to do with me or my post. I maintain that my OP "I trust you, I just don't trust them" is still a demonstration of distrust in ME. My "burns" don't decide what he does and who he gets to talk to or work with. Nor should anyone's. 

[NeverDoneLearning]

14 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Fair enough. This may just be a mild case of patronising / infantilising, then? How long have you known him? You seem to care about this relationship a good deal, and proceeding with no prejudice but with informed caution is a good way forward. Hopefully you'll find a way to see eye-to-eye on this.

I have felt that in some ways.. Like he wants to be protective which I realize to many is super endearing but I don't need taking care of and I find it condescending at times. Which again, I verbalize to him. I know he just wants good and maybe feels that's his responsibility. I do find he feels better if he's with me. worries don't seem to come up as much. It's just unreasonable to be together 24/7.

We've been dating for almost a year. 

Thanks for your comment

Edited April 29, 2020 by NeverDoneLearning

[Emilie Jolie]

I personally would have very serious issues dealing with this type of 'protecting' (I don't find it endearing at all, same as you). I know you say he is caring and calm, but you know, we all are until we're not. There are lots of different ways to put someone down, or to control them, it doesn't need to be through violence or in your face over-the-top reactions, and it doesn't have to be done consciously either or with bad intent. You are right to give each other the chance to figure it out together, though; if he's as considerate as you hope he is, he'll meet you half-way. I think he needs to, frankly - it is totally is unreasonable to expect you to be with him 24/7.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Woggle]

This is why I have such a hard line against cheating. Part of a successful and happy relationship is trust and if that trust isn't there then other things tend to fall apart. I have had women try to hit on me since a small percentage of them tend to actually be more attracted if a man wears a wedding ring and I tell my wife. She tells me when it happens to her and we have a laugh about it. On the other hand we both have people of the opposite sex who we have known for many years and are friends but would never consider a romantic relationship. 

[JS84]

I think it would depend if it's a one time thing or a pattern. Seen way too many stories on here, TAM, SI, MB, etc not to mention in real life of partners not feeling comfortable about a 3rd party, they voice their suspicions, are accused of being controlling, insecure, abusive, etc whatever and are blown off. And then it turns out eventually they wind up screwing around with said person. And I'm not saying that's the case for the OP, I'm just saying it does happen, it's not uncommon and to pretend it doesn't seems a bit disingenuous. If it's a pattern though of "not trusting" some other person then ya that would be a problem. But if I had a partner who had those kind of concerns about a particular individual, depending on how they approach it, I think I'd appreciate the honesty. 

Outside of my mother and my best friend of 20 years, I doubt I could ever trust anyone, especially a relationship partner or a spouse ,100% or completely. I never have. To me the idea sounds completely ridiculous but I understand that everyone doesn't feel that way.

Edited May 1, 2020 by JS84

[preraph]

I agree, but at the same time there are people who are trustworthy and wouldn't betray you and wouldn't cheat on you who have opposite-sex friends they aren't going to hurt by cutting off. People like that are usually going to bring those people and introduce them to their new boyfriend and they're not going to keep friends like that who would do anything to make someone suspicious. 

[Emilie Jolie]

10 hours ago, JS84 said:

If it's a pattern though of "not trusting" some other person then ya that would be a problem.

My ex was cheated on by 2 women before me. It turned him into a nervous wreck. He clearly didn't take the time to process properly, so his paranoia was off the charts.

I let it escalate by giving him the benefit of the doubt and thinking he would eventually trust me, since I gave him zero reason not to. It ended with  meltdowns, him demanding to know my every move, stalking me to restaurants etc to check I was with who I said I was (I was) and snooping into my confidential pro emails. 

After this experience, I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with a guy giving me the 'it's them I don't trust, not you' line.

By contrast, my SO also got cheated on by his wife, but it hasn't affected his ability to trust me. He's super respectful of my privacy, which obviously makes me want to be more open with him naturally, because I don't feel pressure to give a play by play of every breath I take. He doesn't feel threatened by other men, he is secure in himself, which spills onto our RL and makes it more secure too. 

 

 

[preraph]

Being really betrayed really does kind of ruin a person, speaking from personal experience.  You have to watch a person's general ethics.  If they generally have crap ethics, it may also extend to cheating.  If they take advantage of their employer, lie to people, steal, etc., don't tolerate them.  Tip of the iceberg.  But even people who don't have other bad signs like that will do it.  

[JS84]

25 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

My ex was cheated on by 2 women before me. It turned him into a nervous wreck. He clearly didn't take the time to process properly, so his paranoia was off the charts.

I let it escalate by giving him the benefit of the doubt and thinking he would eventually trust me, since I gave him zero reason not to. It ended with  meltdowns, him demanding to know my every move, stalking me to restaurants etc to check I was with who I said I was (I was) and snooping into my confidential pro emails. 

After this experience, I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with a guy giving me the 'it's them I don't trust, not you' line.

By contrast, my SO also got cheated on by his wife, but it hasn't affected his ability to trust me. He's super respectful of my privacy, which obviously makes me want to be more open with him naturally, because I don't feel pressure to give a play by play of every breath I take. He doesn't feel threatened by other men, he is secure in himself, which spills onto our RL and makes it more secure too. 

 

 

That must have been pretty demoralizing. But the "'it's them I don't trust, not you" in your situation sounds like one red flag in a Chinese parade. There were a hell of a lot more issues than that one line. If a guy who didn't have all those issues, say your current SO for example, came to you with those concerns without all the histrionics, accusations, lack of trust, etc regarding another individuals intentions would you still feel the same way??

Edited May 1, 2020 by JS84

[Emilie Jolie]

You mean a single occurence of a guy trying to get into my pants and I was oblivious to it? Knowing my partner, he'd just tell me straight 'just a heads up, I think this guy is trying to get into your pants' and he'll leave it to my good judgement. At least I hope that's what he would do. The bottom line is that you can't control what others do. If I get hit on by a guy, I am in charge of how to deal with it. My partner can't - and shouldn't - control what I do anymore than I have any control over a guy deciding to cross a line. My partner should trust I would handle it right.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Woggle]

Everybody here knows I have had trust issues with women and even though I didn't tell her for some time in my marriage I was just waiting for the hammer to drop and my wife to have an affair or give me the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. At the time I truly believed that woman never truly loved a man and were only loyal to their emotions. I know that is very wrong but at the time it was how I truly felt.  After a while I decided that is no way to live and that the woman who has never done a single thing for me to doubt her love and loyalty deserved my full trust. 

At the end of the day if I had continued on that path I probably would have destroyed my marriage and then everybody who betrayed in the past would have won. When you let people destroy your ability to love and trust then they have won.