Venting

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, VOver said:

There is probably some good advice in what you and others are saying, I just cannot see it in my current state (extreme irritation plus regret plus some sort of apathy). In any case I made it very clear that I'm not interested in trying to stop her from seeing that dude or to convince her into any sort of recovery process. What I want is a clear answer on what she wants so I can plan my next actions around it.

 Maybe your mental "shock" (and thus apathy) will clear up after a while. I'm not trying to urge you one way or another, particularly since you seem to be thinking things through carefully before acting. I guess what I do wonder is why "what she wants" would dictate your actions? Does this mean you want to attempt reconciliation if she wants, but will divorce if she wants to divorce or continue seeing the other guy?

I agree with many of Marc's points above (and others') and definitely think there's little point in reconciliation if she's not willing to change herself internally and remain fully loyal. But - what about what you want? Maybe you need time to process all this before you can figure it, and that's fine, but from what I read around here if the WS desires reconciliation, then the BS's needs become paramount (as they are the one who's been emotionally hurt and are often they are inclined to end things). IF you both agree to try reconciliation, you'll need to be able to put your finger on what it is you need to feel emotionally safe again, etc.

[Robert2016]

All of us have personal issues, disappointments, unmet needs etc – but she chose to cheat vs other options.  She needs to dig deep and fix what is broken inside her that would allow her to betray you (as well as herself).  Fixing herself is a process that will take years not days or weeks.  Otherwise, she’ll cheat again.

Google PTSD.  Adultery and betrayal is traumatic and humans have an automatic response to the pain.  We all go through the same stages of PTSD (sometimes bouncing back and forth between stages).  For example, Denial:  trying to make it all go away, pretending it's not so bad and sucking it up.  I'm not a shrink, but maybe your reluctance to expose is you convincing yourself that if others don't know - then this is not happening.

Do not grant her the gift of a second chance immediately.  And do not ask her what she wants to do (you're the victim and you get to decide what's going to happen next ... and you have to retain control). Take your time (I’m talking months) to decide whether to D or R.  In the interim, she needs to believe you’re serious ready to divorce her (bluff if necessary), observe her actions (not promises) to rebuild trust and to make herself a safe partner.

Inform her that if she continues to have contact with the OM (in anyway), then divorce is 100% certain. 

If she goes zero contact (and finds another job), then you will consider giving her another chance.  However, a second chance is not guaranteed.  You reserve whatever time you need to observe her behavior as well as for you to decide what you want.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Robert2016
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[Robert2016]

There are excellent books available on the topic of "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" (google it).

Your wife (if she wants her marriage) should be taking the initiative to read these books.

In addition (instead of crying and feeling sorry for herself), if she was sincere in her desire to save her marriage, she would:

 1) provide a written plan on how to rebuild your relationship including the steps she will take to make you feel loved. 

2) document the ways she will make you feel safe in the relationship

3) tell the truth on if she misses the AP, whether she enjoys him more than you, if she still thinks he is a good guy and desires to be with him. If she can’t convince you that she feels none of these things for him then you might as well move on.

4) Love letters. Lots of them. Describing what you staying means to her. Describing how you must have felt when you learned she was cheating.  Why she loves you.  Why (other than love) she wants to be with you vs the OM.  What she wants for your future together.  If she wants you in her life she'll grind out a letter every two days.

5) The old marriage is dead (she killed it) if she wants a new one she needs to earn it.

6) provide  a timeline of her affair showing when, where, what happened, what she was thinking during and afterward when she came home  (subject to a polygraph).  A timeline is for her benefit and assists her in fixing herself.  It reduces her romantic tryst into a selfish deceitful act of betrayal.  It also provides you with ‘what’ you are forgiving.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Robert2016
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Brother, just take your time, listen to your gut, take it all in. Think things through, you don’t have to make a long term relationship call with out all the information you need. Gather what you need, think and talk it through with a trusted friend or IC. End of the day it will be you and your child that is affected either way.

One day at a time

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[lolablue17]

What really bothers me in her reaction is that she cannot take full responsibility to her actions. Maybe in words she says, "it's my fault", but in her actions she shows otherwise. 

She is accusing you for revenging her... After she is the one who broke the marriage, now she dares to accuse you for not reacting according to her needs. So, she is crying all the time in her room, because she's experiencing a crisis.

Instead of taking responsibility for hurting you so bad, instead of working hard to make it easier for you, reducing your pressure and stress and pain, she is busy only with herself. She does not agree to pay any price for her actions. For her, If you consider divorce, it' not that you do something for your mental health... No no no... you divorce only to revenge her. 

She is like a child. Thinking that everything is about her, therefore every decision must be according to her interests, while she is totally blind to other people needs. She cannot even get herself together for your mutual child. You said she was a great wife and mother. Well, the true character of people turns to shine in hard moments, and it seems, she fails all tests. She is a bad wife, and probably not the mother of the year. 

[VOver]

Interesting. Last couple of posts made me, perhaps in some twisted way, thinking that perhaps what she really wants is just to quietly navigate this storm without loosing her face too much in the process and after the dust settles  have a go with her lover boy. Think I'm seeing evidence of that. After all , this "expose, dob them in to HR" theme seems to be very common and if I got this idea, she may very well have come across it as well. So maybe that's what she's really afraid of ,not loosing her marriage which she ruined.

I admit I fell more comfortable when she's not around (I start seeing things when I look at her) however I probably need to have a chat and let her know that I'm OK to let her go if that's what she wants, she just need to admit that.

[Zona]

3 hours ago, VOver said:

however I probably need to have a chat and let her know that I'm OK to let her go if that's what she wants, she just need to admit that.

It's never a good idea to leave your fate in the hands of an unremorseful cheater. Do what YOU want to do and don't wait around for her to make a decision about your future. She's in the affair fog, she probably is in love with this guy and that's why she is crying all the time, not because she is sad about how this is destroying you or your family. It almost never happens that a wayward wife stops the affair immediately after D-day. By the time it gets to that point she has feelings for the guy which means her loyalty has shifted to him, and she won't give that up easily. A quick read through the OM/OW forum can show you how this works.

I would recommend that you talk to a lawyer and start the divorce process. Expose the affair to family members, especially her family, and perhaps a few trusted friends. If POSOM is married, expose the affair to his wife. While this may seem counter-intuitive, it is the tried and true method of getting out of infidelity. If she gets out of the fog and becomes a remorseful model wife, then you can consider reconciliation, but not before.

[VOver]

On 5/5/2020 at 3:38 AM, mark clemson said:

I guess what I do wonder is why "what she wants" would dictate your actions? Does this mean you want to attempt reconciliation if she wants, but will divorce if she wants to divorce or continue seeing the other guy?

And this is a very good question. Of course a) if she wants to divorce - there is nothing else to consider, and b) if she continues seeing the other guy please refer to point a).

WRT rest of the points you made - since I use this forum and my venting and rating outlet I must admit that subconsciously I was not certain what I would do/want myself (again I feel like I'm divorcing because that is something I must do - e.g. this is the "right" decision) and perhaps expecting her to give me some clarity. And likely this approach is wrong.

On 5/5/2020 at 5:51 AM, Robert2016 said:

Do not grant her the gift of a second chance immediately.  And do not ask her what she wants to do (you're the victim and you get to decide what's going to happen next ... and you have to retain control). Take your time (I’m talking months) to decide whether to D or R.  In the interim, she needs to believe you’re serious ready to divorce her (bluff if necessary), observe her actions (not promises) to rebuild trust and to make herself a safe partner.

Inform her that if she continues to have contact with the OM (in anyway), then divorce is 100% certain. 

If she goes zero contact (and finds another job), then you will consider giving her another chance.  However, a second chance is not guaranteed.  You reserve whatever time you need to observe her behavior as well as for you to decide what you want.

Looks like a good to-do list, thanks.

11 hours ago, lolablue17 said:

What really bothers me in her reaction is that she cannot take full responsibility to her actions. Maybe in words she says, "it's my fault", but in her actions she shows otherwise. 

 You said she was a great wife and mother. Well, the true character of people turns to shine in hard moments, and it seems, she fails all tests. She is a bad wife, and probably not the mother of the year. 

First, exactly and that is why I'm seriously thinking she is just saying what is "right" under the circumstances and really wants a future with the other guy. Probably the only explanation to her behavior. Probably if someone looks at this as an independent observer she behaves exactly like someone who was caught on the way out of the marriage so it is like "OK, didn't go as I planned, I cannot claim the status of good mother and wife anymore, lets ride out the storm, and move on".

Like the other day she received a work-related email from the other guy (BTW he knows the affair is exposed yet he contacts her) and immediately lets me know, but unable to answer what am I expected to do with this info. Or she threw a tantrum when I went to meet this guy in person (I wan not able to unfortunately) - but I guess she was just protecting him and herself that's it.

She has not - once - offered me to resign. guess that's telling. In fact I don't think she offered anything but tears and self pity.

[VOver]

7 hours ago, Zona said:

I would recommend that you talk to a lawyer and start the divorce process. Expose the affair to family members, especially her family, and perhaps a few trusted friends. If POSOM is married, expose the affair to his wife. While this may seem counter-intuitive, it is the tried and true method of getting out of infidelity. If she gets out of the fog and becomes a remorseful model wife, then you can consider reconciliation, but not before.

1. Done. 2. Done. 3. If he is married I don't have his wife/partner contact details.

To be clear I'm reluctant to get HR involved, apart from that I'm not going to play happy family anymore.

[Zona]

4 hours ago, VOver said:

1. Done. 2. Done. 3. If he is married I don't have his wife/partner contact details.

To be clear I'm reluctant to get HR involved, apart from that I'm not going to play happy family anymore.

How did she react to you exposing the affair to her family? Did she threaten some kind of retaliatory action?

Follow up with POSOM. It will give you great pleasure to expose this low-life to his wife as she has every right to know. Married people always seem to cheat with other married people, so doubtful he is single. If you aren't short of money, a P.I. could track her down in no time. Make sure you are communicating with her directly. POSOM is probably keeping an eye out for any exposure from angry husbands or jilted lovers and may try to intercept. Most of these guys have several side-chicks and there is always the risk of a bunny boiler.

Better times ahead brother. Probably seems pretty bleak now, but you appear to be on top of it and you'll come out of this with your head held high, unlike your cheating wife.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Zona

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Well said Zone

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[Robert2016]

If the OM is married, engaged, or just has a girlfriend ... you need to expose him. Why? first, nothing kills an affair like exposure.

Also, the OM's wife is your best ally in exchanging information about their past and present relationship.

I provided a list of things your wife should be (proactively) doing if she's interested in saving her marriage.

What has she done so far?

[VOver]

I do not think there is any point in going through the process of what she has or has not done so far or what I should or should not be doing.

As odd as it looks, I've caught her sneaking out to meet her lover, so there is probably little point in any further considerations.

[hurtbustandhot]

VOver, if there has been sexual activity are you sure you are safe? 

Have you not considered going to see the guy, just to see him and his face when confronted? Could be worth the humiliation if you take your wife.

[Buffer]

So she is sneaking out to meet her POS. 
This was her exit A and is happy for D. . Wilful actions, responsibility and accountability.
Start 100% only now for you and the children. Help her, pack a bag and drop it and her off at his place, or at HR! She knew what would happen, and chose to do it. 

Can I ask what happened, how she was caught and how she reacted?

one day at a time
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[mark clemson]

Well now you know "what she wants". Very sad situation to be in, and you have my sympathies.

As stated above, if it were me, I'd be talking to some lawyers and planning for my new life once COVID starts to draw down. Many will give free half hour consultations and you can speak with more than one.

Edited May 13, 2020 by mark clemson

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Also, ensure all finances are split, you can’t kick her out but she can start paying all her side of the house hold bills, payments etc, until she finds else where to live. This includes insurance for her car. She can’t have your child in a un insured vehicle. 
Sneaking our for a hook up or even a coffee is unneeded contact. A deal breaker, like not wanting you to confront the OM, shows she still has feelings for him.  At the expense of her child and you.

14 hours ago, VOver said:

As odd as it looks, I've caught her sneaking out to meet her lover, so there is probably little point in any further considerations.

One day at a time

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[Zona]

14 hours ago, VOver said:

I do not think there is any point in going through the process of what she has or has not done so far or what I should or should not be doing.

As odd as it looks, I've caught her sneaking out to meet her lover, so there is probably little point in any further considerations.

Sorry to hear. Sadly this is very common because of the addictive fantasy nature of the affair. This is why when women cheat, divorce is much more common than when men cheat. They can't or don't want to give up their lover.

Take care of yourself. I'm sure you're devastated. See a doc if you are feeling depressed or can't sleep. Make sure you get something to eat and drink. The infidelity diet can be brutal. Exercise is helpful too.

You've seen what she is capable of doing, and that she is a pathological liar, and pathological liars don't make good wives. Follow your solicitors advice and be careful around her as she is likely to get even more crazy as the divorce proceeds. You need to go hard 180. Interact with her as little as possible. This will help you get control of your emotions and clear your head a bit

Edited May 13, 2020 by Zona