Venting

[VOver]

11 hours ago, Just a Guy said:

Firstly, how old are both of you? Secondly, what was the state of your marriage? Were you two comfortable in the marriage, taking each other for granted or did you still have a dynamic relationship? Were you mindful of your wife's emotional needs and vice versa or did both of you assume those needs were being met? Did you have frequent disagreements and were these verbally or emotionally abusive? Also, have you had a sit down calm discussion with your wife about her affair and why she needed to have one or, what drove her to have one? If there was a discussion did she try and shift the blame on you?

I consider(ed) our marriage is a reasonably good one - no relationship, financial, health or other critical issues I can think of, no critical disagreements, abuse or fighting.  Of course the proof is in the pudding and one can say "if it was so why do you think she..." - and I don't have an answer. I don't think both of us are capable of calm, civilized discussion, she has not explicitly trying to shift the blame on me for the cheating, but I guess she is shocked I'm seriously considering divorce instead of "working on repairing our marriage". Truth is that perhaps I was taking our marriage for granted - e.g. wasn't waking up in the morning thinking "how do I stop her from cheating", now the "marriage" feels like a very abstract concept not worthy of working on anymore.

6 hours ago, preraph said:

I don't know any more than what you posted and you don't know any more, I guess, than what the coworker reported.  But since she has been griping about this guy, is there any chance that he is sexually harassing her and she doesn't even like him and is just having trouble with him and that another coworker sees it and thinks it mutual?  What has your actual wife said about this?  

OK, as I didn't post a cohesive story I understand where are you coming from. That was the 1st (actually the 2nd) explanation my wife gave me. Unfortunately  have the evidence and her partial confession. The timeline someone has mentioned here would look like 1. That person (who dobbed her in) lying and crazy. 2. He is spreading rumors and gossips and harassing me. 3. OK, we tried to sort out working together and got bit too close and personal. 4. Just flirting, talking about personal lives. 5. OK, there were some physical activities and exchange of intimate messages. 6. That was not serious, and there was never a consideration for leaving me.

[VOver]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:56 PM, pepperbird said:

For the mental aspect of this? It sounds like you could be in a state of shock. Did you kind of expect this or was it out of the blue? Is there a way you can have some private space in your home to think all this through without her input? You don't have to decide anything right away, and there's no way you should or shouldn't feel.

I think you - and JS84 maybe right. I kind of feel numb and disappointment and (albeit not as fast as I perhaps should) preparing for the divorce because logically I know this is the right thing to do and there is really no alternative. Not that I'm dreaming of it.

15 hours ago, JS84 said:

If it's only been a week you're probably still somewhat in shock. Might not be this week, or even next month, but trust me that anger is going to hit you.

Just don't sit around doing nothing for too long while your wife is out f***ing another guy. The longer you let that go on while you do nothing, the harder it will be to snap her out of it and the harder it will be for you down the road as well no matter what you do.

I is not anymore, but honestly I don't care. In a way if she'd come to me and told she wanted a divorce to be with the other dude, I'd just wish her well.

[VOver]

10 hours ago, pepperbird said:

One of the toughest parts of it, at least to me, was trying to figure out if there was even any point in trying to reconcile. I needed to figure out if I could ever forgive him and move forward. That took a lot of time and reflection.

Absolutely correct, and I don't have that "anchor" at the moment.

[VOver]

11 minutes ago, VOver said:

Absolutely correct, and I don't have that "anchor" at the moment.

I wonder, If someone can explain to me how is it even possible - a mature woman (not a teen) doing this with some other guy she does not even claim to have serious feelings for, screwing her life, my life and potentially our kid's life - just kicking everyone out of their normal life - and then just behave like she only totaled my favorite car?

[preraph]

It must be some lack of empathy.

[pepperbird]

21 minutes ago, VOver said:

I wonder, If someone can explain to me how is it even possible - a mature woman (not a teen) doing this with some other guy she does not even claim to have serious feelings for, screwing her life, my life and potentially our kid's life - just kicking everyone out of their normal life - and then just behave like she only totaled my favorite car?

It sounds to me like she's checked out. Of course, it's nothing to her because she doesn't care. She doesn't have the "love" for you to be hurt or see this as any sort of crisis.
think of it like this- if someone came up and kicked you between the  legs, it's going to hurt. a lot. (I am assuming this is true, as I am not a man) because you have what is needed to be hurt in the first place. Kick me in the same spot, and it might not be fun, but it won;t be all that painful either. That's because I don;t have what is needed for that kick to hurt . This being said,  I can certainly empathize with you and feel bad you're hurt, but she can't even give you that. Right now, that "part" of her is missing too. She can't feel your pain- don;t waste your time or effort trying to get her to.

A pierce of advice- I know you're in shock, but speak to a lawyer, please do that. Now if you can. I say this because your wife sounds like she is in a fine mood- she may even be feeling a little bit guilty. That's golden for you- If you feel like your marriage should end, she may be willing to be very agreeable right now. Of course, if Mr. X dumps her sorry behind, she;ll probably come weaseling her way back to you.  If she does, what will you do?

[DKT3]

32 minutes ago, VOver said:

I wonder, If someone can explain to me how is it even possible - a mature woman (not a teen) doing this with some other guy she does not even claim to have serious feelings for, screwing her life, my life and potentially our kid's life - just kicking everyone out of their normal life - and then just behave like she only totaled my favorite car?

They never think they will be caught,  that's why they come up with terrible stories to cover. Just think about, logic would say when you're doing something wrong you have an alibi,  cheater rarely have alibis just poorly constructed nonsense that wouldn't convince a toddler. 

Since they don't think being caught is an option,  they dont see the risk of losing everything.  

[VOver]

24 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

It sounds to me like she's checked out. Of course, it's nothing to her because she doesn't care. She doesn't have the "love" for you to be hurt or see this as any sort of crisis.
think of it like this- if someone came up and kicked you between the  legs, it's going to hurt. a lot. (I am assuming this is true, as I am not a man) because you have what is needed to be hurt in the first place. Kick me in the same spot, and it might not be fun, but it won;t be all that painful either. That's because I don;t have what is needed for that kick to hurt . This being said,  I can certainly empathize with you and feel bad you're hurt, but she can't even give you that. Right now, that "part" of her is missing too. She can't feel your pain- don;t waste your time or effort trying to get her to.

A pierce of advice- I know you're in shock, but speak to a lawyer, please do that. Now if you can. I say this because your wife sounds like she is in a fine mood- she may even be feeling a little bit guilty. That's golden for you- If you feel like your marriage should end, she may be willing to be very agreeable right now. Of course, if Mr. X dumps her sorry behind, she;ll probably come weaseling her way back to you.  If she does, what will you do?

Thanks for that, that is a very plausible explanation using the language and analogy I can understand. Perhaps a somewhat humiliating one because it means that I was stupid enough to be "happily" married to someone who "doesn't care". But since it connect the dots, its probably true. After all the whole situation is humiliating.

I have engaged a lawyer and progressing with that, perhaps not as fast as I can. Sole applicant as she tells me she does not want one. She is far from fine mood though, is a mess, won't go into details but its is not good. And as far as I know mister X is not here to offer any support. She claims that any relationship with him was never an idea.

20 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

They never think they will be caught,  that's why they come up with terrible stories to cover. Just think about, logic would say when you're doing something wrong you have an alibi,  cheater rarely have alibis just poorly constructed nonsense that wouldn't convince a toddler. 

Since they don't think being caught is an option,  they dont see the risk of losing everything.  

That may also be correct, also I'm not sure why would she be so confident the truth would never surface and was it worth the risk? I may never know.

[pepperbird]

26 minutes ago, VOver said:

Thanks for that, that is a very plausible explanation using the language and analogy I can understand. Perhaps a somewhat humiliating one because it means that I was stupid enough to be "happily" married to someone who "doesn't care". But since it connect the dots, its probably true. After all the whole situation is humiliating.

I have engaged a lawyer and progressing with that, perhaps not as fast as I can. Sole applicant as she tells me she does not want one. She is far from fine mood though, is a mess, won't go into details but its is not good. And as far as I know mister X is not here to offer any support. She claims that any relationship with him was never an idea.

That may also be correct, also I'm not sure why would she be so confident the truth would never surface and was it worth the risk? I may never know.

You're thinking like someone who can be faithful. Cheaters don't do that. They will twist a situation like a pretzel to try and justify it.

An example: my husband told me one of the reasons he strayed was because I wasn't "fun". This was after the week before him telling me in a  letter how much fun we had together and how lucky he was to be with me.
It made no sense to me, and still doesn't, because I don't have that mindset. The odd thing is, if my husband and I talk about that time, he says it makes no sense to him either, even though he's the one who said it.

I, and lots of other people, call it cheater logic.



 

[Buffer]

The dilemma, should I let the BS know what is going on behind his back?  Well I would be glad that some one in the office stepped up to the plate. Letting you know what was going on. You should contact WW HR department, accountability and responsibility. They could rug sweep it so not to have any backlash on the workplace. They may use the excuse to fire her because of taking leave during Covid and not the work place affair. 
Strength to you 

One day at a time 

Buffer 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Buffer

[Yesitswrong]

This may be an unpopular opinion but if I were you, I'd do whatever I could so HR doesn't get involved. In some cases, HR won't care (they certainly didn't at my job) but if HR terminates your wife, and you decide to divorce, you could end up paying her spousal support. Depending on your state, a divorce on the grounds of adultery may prevent her from being awarded spousal support but that's not always the case. I'm sorry for what you're going through and I don't have any advice on that, but just wanted you to consider this aspect. Take care of yourself. 

[JS84]

Quote

This may be an unpopular opinion but if I were you, I'd do whatever I could so HR doesn't get involved. In some cases, HR won't care (they certainly didn't at my job) but if HR terminates your wife, and you decide to divorce, you could end up paying her spousal support. Depending on your state, a divorce on the grounds of adultery may prevent her from being awarded spousal support but that's not always the case. I'm sorry for what you're going through and I don't have any advice on that, but just wanted you to consider this aspect. Take care of yourself. 

That's crazy. Was just thinking about this thread like 10 minutes ago and whether I should give the same advice or not. I know a lot of people on these forums are very Pro-exposure. I am myself but I don't feel 100% exposure is always necessary in every infidelity situation. 

[VOver]

22 hours ago, pepperbird said:

You're thinking like someone who can be faithful. Cheaters don't do that. They will twist a situation like a pretzel to try and justify it.
An example: my husband told me one of the reasons he strayed was because I wasn't "fun". This was after the week before him telling me in a  letter how much fun we had together and how lucky he was to be with me.
It made no sense to me, and still doesn't, because I don't have that mindset. The odd thing is, if my husband and I talk about that time, he says it makes no sense to him either, even though he's the one who said it.
I, and lots of other people, call it cheater logic.

That is really twisted. I'm still puzzled by what happened, that was so out of character for her. I mean totally opposite of what (I thought) she is. And I'm glad it worked out for you.

20 hours ago, Yesitswrong said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but if I were you, I'd do whatever I could so HR doesn't get involved. ..

It looks like there is some ongoing discussion / dilemma of involving or not involving HR. With respect to advice given and what it seems like serious thinking behind it, I'm not going to do that (dob them in to HR). Not so out of the fear of legal consequences (I admit some of the suggestions were spot on and I think I managed to impress my lawyer so far) and I'm definitely not a "another cheek" person.

I won't do it because it just feels week and low - how exactly this is going to look like in real life? Dear HR, my wife couldn't keep her legs together, please get her and him punished? I don't think this is HR's job anyway. Or, following this logic, given that they met in person (outside of the office) while we were in lockdown should I also dob them in to whatever authority that manages the COVID?

 

[Zona]

In regards to your question about why she would do it, and you'll here a lot of psychobabble about the reasons, but the truth is she did it because she wanted to. It made her feel good, stroked her ego, made her feel desirable and "alive", and sneaking around and having sex was a huge thrill. It's like when you are a kid and feel really good about getting away with something and keeping secrets with somebody about it. You likely never entered her mind when she was with him because she got swept up in it. Oh, and of course she had rationalized her behavior in some way to ease her guilt, most likely blaming you for not meeting her needs.

Unfortunately it is pretty much as simple as that. Is there issue with her character? Yup, and she should work on that so she can avoid destroying her life again in the future (as well as the collateral damage to other innocent people).

Sorry you are here man. It really sucks. Yo are right to charge ahead with divorce. This will definitely shake her out of the fog. You can change your mind before it is final if you have a change of heart.

Oh, one other thing, it is a rare wayward indeed that can go cold turkey after D-Day. Affairs have an addictive quality to them, so don't assume that she is not in contact with him still. All the more reason to start the ball rolling on divorce. In most cases, a lot of the tears are for themselves because they miss the emotional high that the affair gave them.

Best of luck.

[Buffer]

Brother VOver do what you feel is right for you.
My last suggestion re HR was if she is fired for her work place affair. That she doesn’t gaslight you and tell everyone that she was fired for taking time off during Covid. That’s what I meant when I suggested HR. 
Accountability and responsibilities 

Buffer

[oldtruck]

12 hours ago, VOver said:

That is really twisted. I'm still puzzled by what happened, that was so out of character for her. I mean totally opposite of what (I thought) she is. And I'm glad it worked out for you.

It looks like there is some ongoing discussion / dilemma of involving or not involving HR. With respect to advice given and what it seems like serious thinking behind it, I'm not going to do that (dob them in to HR). Not so out of the fear of legal consequences (I admit some of the suggestions were spot on and I think I managed to impress my lawyer so far) and I'm definitely not a "another cheek" person.

I won't do it because it just feels week and low - how exactly this is going to look like in real life? Dear HR, my wife couldn't keep her legs together, please get her and him punished? I don't think this is HR's job anyway. Or, following this logic, given that they met in person (outside of the office) while we were in lockdown should I also dob them in to whatever authority that manages the COVID?

 

you want to end the affair and save your marriage?

you need to expose the affair to HR.

 

you want to divorce your WW and give it to the OM?

you need to expose the affair to HR.

 

[VOver]

16 hours ago, oldtruck said:

you want to end the affair and save your marriage?

you need to expose the affair to HR.

 

you want to divorce your WW and give it to the OM?

you need to expose the affair to HR.

 

I don't need HR (or finance, risk and compliance, or procurement) help in any of this.

It is starting to feel that wife sleeping with another man is considered no big deal these days and what I'm doing (or not doing) is some sort of overreaction.

Like she's trying these small gestures of affection or whatever it is called as if I'm in a state where I can appreciate it.

She came to me to inform he wrote her a work related email.  After hours - give me a break

[VOver]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:26 AM, Zona said:

In regards to your question about why she would do it, and you'll here a lot of psychobabble about the reasons, but the truth is she did it because she wanted to. It made her feel good, stroked her ego, made her feel desirable and "alive", and sneaking around and having sex was a huge thrill. It's like when you are a kid and feel really good about getting away with something and keeping secrets with somebody about it. You likely never entered her mind when she was with him because she got swept up in it. Oh, and of course she had rationalized her behavior in some way to ease her guilt, most likely blaming you for not meeting her needs.

Unfortunately it is pretty much as simple as that. Is there issue with her character? Yup, and she should work on that so she can avoid destroying her life again in the future (as well as the collateral damage to other innocent people).

Sorry you are here man. It really sucks. Yo are right to charge ahead with divorce. This will definitely shake her out of the fog. You can change your mind before it is final if you have a change of heart.

Oh, one other thing, it is a rare wayward indeed that can go cold turkey after D-Day. Affairs have an addictive quality to them, so don't assume that she is not in contact with him still. All the more reason to start the ball rolling on divorce. In most cases, a lot of the tears are for themselves because they miss the emotional high that the affair gave them.

Best of luck.

I think I'm yet to find out.

[Zona]

18 minutes ago, VOver said:

It is starting to feel that wife sleeping with another man is considered no big deal these days and what I'm doing (or not doing) is some sort of overreaction.

Like she's trying these small gestures of affection or whatever it is called as if I'm in a state where I can appreciate it.

She came to me to inform he wrote her a work related email.  After hours - give me a break

Sorry you are going through this. And it is a big deal. Adultery destroys marriages, families and people (the betrayed spouse and often the wayward to ends up damaged from the experience). If you end up divorcing your wife and exposing her affair to family members and friends, I'm pretty sure she will start to think that it is a very big deal. Her fantasy bubble is going to pop.

I'm in my late 40's (Gen X), but it seems to me that millennials do think differently about adultery, especially millennial women who actually cheat more than men.

 

[Bryanp]

Why don't you ask your wife how she would feel if the roles were reversed and you were screwing another woman behind her back putting her health at risk for STD's and destroying the marriage?

[Marc878]

On 4/30/2020 at 7:57 PM, VOver said:

That is really twisted. I'm still puzzled by what happened, that was so out of character for her. I mean totally opposite of what (I thought) she is. And I'm glad it worked out for you.

It looks like there is some ongoing discussion / dilemma of involving or not involving HR. With respect to advice given and what it seems like serious thinking behind it, I'm not going to do that (dob them in to HR). Not so out of the fear of legal consequences (I admit some of the suggestions were spot on and I think I managed to impress my lawyer so far) and I'm definitely not a "another cheek" person.

I won't do it because it just feels week and low - how exactly this is going to look like in real life? Dear HR, my wife couldn't keep her legs together, please get her and him punished? I don't think this is HR's job anyway. Or, following this logic, given that they met in person (outside of the office) while we were in lockdown should I also dob them in to whatever authority that manages the COVID?

 

Most betrayed spouse use this failed logic. Bud, it is part of her character or she wouldn’t have done this. Right now you’re in denial of who/what she really is. All that’s going to do is keep you in limbo longer.

Doing nothing hoping it’ll all just go away is the worst thing you should be doing right now. I get the shock but it’s not going to help you.

[Marc878]

12 hours ago, VOver said:

I think I'm yet to find out.

Bud, many never get that answer. You are seeking to rationalize the irrational. 

[Marc878]

13 hours ago, VOver said:

I don't need HR (or finance, risk and compliance, or procurement) help in any of this.

It is starting to feel that wife sleeping with another man is considered no big deal these days and what I'm doing (or not doing) is some sort of overreaction.

Like she's trying these small gestures of affection or whatever it is called as if I'm in a state where I can appreciate it.

She came to me to inform he wrote her a work related email.  After hours - give me a break

The one thing is affairs are addictions. You get the addict around the source you get relapse. This isn’t over. She’s in self protection mode. Just because you know doesn’t meant they’ll stop. You will remain in self imposed limbo until you get yourself out of it. Your wife may have put you there but it will be up to you to get yourself out.

[VOver]

On 5/3/2020 at 4:01 AM, Marc878 said:

The one thing is affairs are addictions. You get the addict around the source you get relapse. This isn’t over. She’s in self protection mode. Just because you know doesn’t meant they’ll stop. You will remain in self imposed limbo until you get yourself out of it. Your wife may have put you there but it will be up to you to get yourself out.

There is probably some good advice in what you and others are saying, I just cannot see it in my current state (extreme irritation plus regret plus some sort of apathy). In any case I made it very clear that I'm not interested in trying to stop her from seeing that dude or to convince her into any sort of recovery process. What I want is a clear answer on what she wants so I can plan my next actions around it.

At the moment I do not see any way of staying in this marriage not because I want some sort of vengeance or because I suddenly "hate" her. This is in the context where she basically accused me that I'm reacting like I am because I want vengeance and hating her now. This is just because I don;t have any explanation why it has happened and what it takes to keep living as a married couple. In other words what I really wants for all of this to go away / never happen, since this is impossible I need to pick up the next thing from the list.

Since she is spending most of the time in her room crying and this affects an innocent party in this mess (the kid) I need to break this cycle. Given that:

1) She was flirting with the guy.

2) She was exchanging intimate messages and pictures with him  (something that never happened between us due  to our age I assume).

3) She had physical intimate relationship with him, which he hasn't stopped on her own

4) Yes - at least she claims - never had an intent of leaving me/our family.

I think my only option is to let her to sort this out. In other words it will not "just go away with time" as I assume any reconciliation involves. I think though it will be hard to stay on this course given the emotional presssure on me.

Excluding all illogical reasons, and given total lack of explanation from her, I think the only remaining conclusion is that she did it "for fun".

[Marc878]

26 minutes ago, VOver said:

There is probably some good advice in what you and others are saying, I just cannot see it in my current state (extreme irritation plus regret plus some sort of apathy). In any case I made it very clear that I'm not interested in trying to stop her from seeing that dude or to convince her into any sort of recovery process. What I want is a clear answer on what she wants so I can plan my next actions around it.

It might be best to figure out what you want. Can you live with it? This is on your timeline. No one else’s. Upfront you’re in a state of shock. Think long term this may dissipate but never go away plus the capability is there which means it could happen again.

At the moment I do not see any way of staying in this marriage not because I want some sort of vengeance or because I suddenly "hate" her. This is in the context where she basically accused me that I'm reacting like I am because I want vengeance and hating her now. This is just because I don;t have any explanation why it has happened and what it takes to keep living as a married couple. In other words what I really wants for all of this to go away / never happen, since this is impossible I need to pick up the next thing from the list.

She cheats and now it’s your problem because you can’t just get over it? Not a lot to work with here.

Since she is spending most of the time in her room crying and this affects an innocent party in this mess (the kid) I need to break this cycle. Given that:

The tears are for her not you. Regrets at getting caught. Most never think you’ll find out. That was never planned for.

1) She was flirting with the guy.

2) She was exchanging intimate messages and pictures with him  (something that never happened between us due  to our age I assume).

You have no control over pics once they’re put out there. Pretty stupid. He can use at his discretion.

3) She had physical intimate relationship with him, which he hasn't stopped on her own

4) Yes - at least she claims - never had an intent of leaving me/our family.

Just some side fun at your expense.

I think my only option is to let her to sort this out. In other words it will not "just go away with time" as I assume any reconciliation involves. I think though it will be hard to stay on this course given the emotional presssure on me.

Excluding all illogical reasons, and given total lack of explanation from her, I think the only remaining conclusion is that she did it "for fun".

She did it because she wanted to. Opportunity was there and she made a very willing and conscious decision. These things just don’t happen. 

Many get caught up with the other man but although he is part of the problem she’s the one who let him in. He should not have been a problem.

Right now she’s in self protection mode. She has little or no boundaries. What happens the next time she gets some attention? Repeats happen all the time.

Ill never do it again are meaningless words unless they put in the work to fix themselves. So no matter what you’ll never be 100% sure.

Sorry you’re in this mess but clarity will come.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Marc878