Neighbor's business ruining quiet neighborhood

[wavylocks]

My wife and I and our kids live in a small residential neighborhood. There’s one way in and out so it’s very quiet. In fact, we bought it exactly for that reason. We spent a lot of money on our home and we have 3 young children all under 5. Since the pandemic has started, we’ve run into an issue with our neighbor 2 houses down. He grows crops in his small backyard and refers to his property as “the farm”. The problem is, it’s not a farm. It’s a backyard in a residential neighborhood. He used to take his crops to farmers markets and sell them, but with the shutdown, the farmers markets are closed. So, he has taken to selling not only his crops, but he is now receiving deliveries of meats, breads and TONS of other products and selling them out of his driveway. I understand that people want access to his food and he is helping people out during this time, but it has completely wrecked the neighborhood on the weekends. There are cars speeding through my once quiet neighborhood. There are strangers coming onto my property to talk to my children, people sitting on my curb chatting for over an hour, and trash (masks & gloves) in the street. I called the police a few weeks ago after about 6 or 7 cars came speeding around the corner in front of my house. They told me there was nothing they could do, that it was a zoning issue and they would report it to the zoning officer.  I found out via his Facebook page that he was issued a cease and desist order by the township, which he defied for over 3 weeks. I contacted the township to see why they couldn’t shut him down and was told that since the courts are closed they couldn’t get an injunction to stop him and the police can’t enforce the cease and desist. They also informed me that he filed a Zoning Hearing Board application in order to request relief from the zoning laws. It’s not clear yet whether he plans to use that to just continue growing, or to continue selling as well. The problem is, the next zoning hearing will probably not be until June at this point. The zoning officer told me that him filing the application prevents the township from taking any action until the meeting.

The situation has me infuriated. The township couldn’t get the cease and desist order enforced, but they were able to accept his Zoning Hearing Board application? This is ridiculous. I have every right to safe and quiet streets and I shouldn’t have to sacrifice that so he can run his business in a residential area. Just because there aren’t a lot of families with young children in the neighborhood doesn’t mean he should be allowed to turn the neighborhood into a commercial area every weekend.

I was hoping to get some ideas of ANYTHING else I can do in this situation. At this point he is planning to run his market this weekend for most of the only nice day we’re going to have (Saturday).  And most likely every weekend until the Zoning Board meeting. My wife and I both work full time so the weekends are our time to get the kids outside and ride bikes and play. I can’t stand all the people around, especially during a pandemic.

 

[mark clemson]

(Deleting post - saw that courts are closed)

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by mark clemson

[Art_Critic]

I would just keep calling the police when stuff happens that endangers your family.

 

[Redhead14]

50 minutes ago, wavylocks said:

 There are strangers coming onto my property to talk to my children

 

That is trespassing.  I'd call the cops for that for sure.  The message will get out about that quickly.  Put up No Trespassing signs as well.  It's a shame you need to do that but I would not tolerate that kind of thing even in "normal" times. 

[preraph]

It may depend where you live, but I promise you courts are not fully closed where I live.  They are simply not doing jury trials which would leave plenty of time for something like this.   Sounds like code compliance may be dragging their feet.  Wherever you live, call your equivalent of 1) the court clerk.  You can look this up and call one court's clerk, even if you don't know what type court you need, and they could probably tell you.  The other thing is call your city councilman for your neighborhood district, or the equivalent if you are not in the US.  Ask them what is going on and to look into it.  Our code compliance people ARE working.  I saw one two days ago driving around ticketing.  So get help from your city council rep.  Maybe he can jack them up and get them involved.  My mom did that when an uncertified daycare moved in nextdoor to her.  She went right down to the councilman's office (probably no one there right now) and brought photos (bring photos proving how big a deal it is) and they put a stop to it.  

[wavylocks]

1 hour ago, Art_Critic said:

I would just keep calling the police when stuff happens that endangers your family.

 

I plan to, but I want it to stop. 

 

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

That is trespassing.  I'd call the cops for that for sure.  The message will get out about that quickly.  Put up No Trespassing signs as well.  It's a shame you need to do that but I would not tolerate that kind of thing even in "normal" times. 

I will if it happens again. I just need a way to make it stop permanently. 

 

1 hour ago, preraph said:

It may depend where you live, but I promise you courts are not fully closed where I live.  They are simply not doing jury trials which would leave plenty of time for something like this.   Sounds like code compliance may be dragging their feet.  Wherever you live, call your equivalent of 1) the court clerk.  You can look this up and call one court's clerk, even if you don't know what type court you need, and they could probably tell you.  The other thing is call your city councilman for your neighborhood district, or the equivalent if you are not in the US.  Ask them what is going on and to look into it.  Our code compliance people ARE working.  I saw one two days ago driving around ticketing.  So get help from your city council rep.  Maybe he can jack them up and get them involved.  My mom did that when an uncertified daycare moved in nextdoor to her.  She went right down to the councilman's office (probably no one there right now) and brought photos (bring photos proving how big a deal it is) and they put a stop to it.  

I was told by the zoning officer that the courts are closed. He said he had planned to issue citations and file for an injunction to stop them but he couldn't because the courts were closed. So I am taking that from him. I'm not sure who my councilman is but the commissioner for my "ward" of the township loves 3 doors down in the other direction. He's friendly with the farmer though, so I'm not sure if that has something to do with it. I do need to start taking pictures of everything to make sure this gets shut down. 

[preraph]

Well that commissioner ought to be doing something about that. It is possible he's the problem. That's a lot of bananas. make a call to the courts anyway just to see in case that person doesn't know what they're talking about. I would imagine a lot of neighbors would be complaining about that and that somebody would be forced to do something. 

[thefooloftheyear]

Maybe i missed it, but did you go over and talk to him, man to man, about the situation?... Or did you just call the cops when you saw what was going on./  Was he already living there before you moved in or is it vice versa?   Yes, this does matter...

Most guys can work out issues over a face to face and handshake(although who knows about the handshake anymore)...Point being if you just called the cops without first talking to him about it could be seen as un neighborly and offensive...Its not like he shot your dog or anything...

Calling police or involving authorities should only be a last resort...Its not like you can just leave, and neither can he....It gets stupid...

TFY

Edited May 1, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[Kitty Tantrum]

People who move into crowded neighborhoods expecting peace and quiet baffle me.

If he's filed for the proper application, it sounds to me like there's a chance you might not EVER see your desired resolution.

Keeping people off of YOUR property is one thing - but it sounds like all you can do in terms of "shutting down" this guy's business is to hope his application is denied. If it's not - sounds like you're out of luck. That's how it goes. Cross your fingers, I guess?

[carhill]

Long-term, likely more productive to work out an equitable solution; warring neighbors can make life intractable and severely detract from the joys of home ownership. At one time in suburban America, neighbors worked together, kids played together, adults partied together and they helped each other out. It's tough times out there right now for a lot of people.

Before the -19 deal hit, one morning I heard a bunch of noise and wandered outside and was gobsmacked to see horse trailers parked up and down the street and horses and riders in full show gear plodding down to the corner. Turned out the neighbor across the street was having a horse show and rodeo. I guess I could've been pissed they were disrupting my Saturday but instead I grabbed some beers, plopped a chair on the roof and sat out and watched the goings on. Quite a show. Easily 75-100 contestants and a full public address system. By 3pm it was quiet, everyone was gone, not a speck of trash to be found..back to solitude 👍

[K.K.]

4 hours ago, wavylocks said:

Since the pandemic has started, we’ve run into an issue with our neighbor 2 houses down. He grows crops in his small backyard and refers to his property as “the farm”. The problem is, it’s not a farm. It’s a backyard in a residential neighborhood. He used to take his crops to farmers markets and sell them, but with the shutdown, the farmers markets are closed. So, he has taken to selling not only his crops, but he is now receiving deliveries of meats, breads and TONS of other products and selling them out of his driveway. 

We have this same kind of thing going on in a neighborhood in my town. It’s a whole big Facebook war and everything. Cops. Courts. These neighbors in the spotlight sell crabs from their house and always have. The new neighbors moved in and don’t like it so they’re now going through the courts. Which is ridiculous to me since they moved in after the crab people had been established and welcomed for many years. The new neighbors had to have seen this before buying. 

The difference I see is that yours is a temporary problem. The shutting down of everything isn’t going to last forever. There will come a day when the ‘farmer’ 2 doors down from you will go back to the farmers market. 

Now there’s cops involved and all kinds of crappy feelings. 😟 So now you’ve made an enemy out of a neighbor that who is to say, might even need the money his ‘crops’ bring to live his life and pay his bills. Ya know? 

I think you should’ve just sucked it up since it’s only temporary. But it’s too late now. 

I’m not saying I don’t understand that it’s a problem for you, I get it. But I’d do just about anything not to start a war with my neighbors. Especially if it’s temporary. 
 

 

[Fletch Lives]

It's a temporary situation due to the emergency. Plus, he's helping people. I think the problem will go away on it's own soon. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Fletch Lives

[d0nnivain]

Courts are virtually open.  Other then jury trials, things can be heard.  Look up the judiciary website in your area & then keep calling the police.  Take some video of the goings on so there will be evidence later.  

Perhaps circulate a virtual petition through your neighbors.   You can't be the only one aggrieved by this.  

If it was just him selling stuff he grew, I'd tell you to simmer down & let the guy support his family but now that he's getting deliveries that's too much.  He's running a business not just selling what he grows.  

[elaine567]

20 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

It's a temporary situation due to the emergency.

Not necessarily.
If he is finding he is making as much money being at home, rather than spending time, money and energy setting up stalls in farmers markets, he may decide to choose the home option or he may want to add it on to his farmer's market gigs
There may be local laws preventing him from doing that  but as his business predates the lockdown, then it may not be entirely straight forward to close him down. 

[Fletch Lives]

42 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Not necessarily.
If he is finding he is making as much money being at home, rather than spending time, money and energy setting up stalls in farmers markets, he may decide to choose the home option or he may want to add it on to his farmer's market gigs
There may be local laws preventing him from doing that  but as his business predates the lockdown, then it may not be entirely straight forward to close him down. 

That's true........I'm assuming it's temporary due to the emergency.

If it continues after the emergency, I would seek legal remedies. But I would give it some time.The authorities aren't going to do much at this time anyway. The kids have turned the street down the block from my home into a drag strip, lol.......everybody has problems! But after the emergency, I'm sure the cops will shut that down. Right now the cops are busy.

[thefooloftheyear]

Mind boggling to me that people would involve police in petty neighborhood issues....especially now....

Look at it this way....;Lets say you "win" in court....

Now the guy knows you're a spineless dick that can't come and talk to someone face to face and work it out....By all accounts he says he's only doing it for the lockdown and he'll make sure people dont go on your property...But you decided to get legal....So now, your entire existence living there you will be looking  over your shoulder.....Maybe one day a year from now you walk out of your house and find all your tires slashed....Or maybe this guy decides that because you didn't talk to him first and shut him down, now he'll use every other LEGAL means to annoy the hell out of you....This is rarely ever anything anyone "wins" at...

Reminds me of the Sopranos episode where the snooty neighbor wouldn't let Tony out of the deal to buy the house...So he says fine and decides to park his boat in earshot of the guys dockside dinner party and blast the radio....Dean Martin stuff....

You need to pick battles and learn that perhaps its better to lose the battle in order to win the war..

TFY

Edited May 2, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Not necessarily.
If he is finding he is making as much money being at home, rather than spending time, money and energy setting up stalls in farmers markets, he may decide to choose the home option or he may want to add it on to his farmer's market gigs
 

100% Agree...  People are cheap, if this "Farmer" can avoid the stall rent, etc., he will.

A couple of suggestions:

(1) Does your county/state charge a sales or use tax on food, if so and if he isn't collecting and remitting it to the local taxing authority, they will come after him and shut him down (and fine him)!! 

(2) I'd also look into health department laws, especially if he is re-selling meats that are perishable. Buy some meat from him, try to get a receipt, then call the health department and tell them the meat made you sick. Many years ago, I had a neighbor that half-finished an (in ground) pool, it filled up with rain water and became stagnant (smelled horrible, attracted mosquitoes and frogs).  The zoning department was useless, but the Health Department was quite helpful (as this was during the time of West Nile Virus). The Health Department brought in a bulldozer, pushed in the cement walls of the pool and filled in the hole (with dirt), then sent him a bill for the work.

(3) Picket his little business... I don't know your local laws, but in most areas... as long as you are on the sidewalk and are continually moving, you can picket his "business"... be a nuisance right back, scare away his customers. Fight fire with fire.

(4) As a last resort, I have utilized an attorney for matters where I couldn't get any remedy from local authorities.  Yes, I spent some of my own money, but I protected the value of the home I was working on.  Again, this would be my last resort!!

Best of luck, and yes every neighborhood has one of these people that ruin a great area. 

[d0nnivain]

8 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Mind boggling to me that people would involve police in petty neighborhood issues....especially now....

I don't see big delivery trucks, increased traffic overall & "customers" speeding as petty.  Those are real issues & other then the delivery trucks, not something the entrepreneur can really control.  It's also why zoning was invented.  Commercial areas have traffic flow patterns that are not present in residential neighborhoods.   Again due to Covid if the guy was ONLY selling stuff he grew I would have told the OP to simmer down but now that the guy has extended his business to accept deliveries from other suppliers, this is not going to stop after the lock down is over.  The guy is making money & will want to continue.  Under those circumstances, he needs to be regulated.  

[Fair]

Looks like you'll have to move!!

[poppyfields]

19 hours ago, wavylocks said:

I plan to, but I want it to stop. 

 

I will if it happens again. I just need a way to make it stop permanently. 

 

I was told by the zoning officer that the courts are closed. He said he had planned to issue citations and file for an injunction to stop them but he couldn't because the courts were closed. So I am taking that from him. I'm not sure who my councilman is but the commissioner for my "ward" of the township loves 3 doors down in the other direction. He's friendly with the farmer though, so I'm not sure if that has something to do with it. I do need to start taking pictures of everything to make sure this gets shut down. 

I live in CA and confirming all courts are closed until end of May/early June, except for emergency hearings such as for a domestic violence situation. 

You are not even able to file a document until courts re-open or schedule a hearing date, unless again for an emergency, which unless your family is in physical danger, this wouldn't be.  Everything is on hold until courts reopen.

In CA, there is no one there to even answer the phone, employees are part of a union and the union requires them to quarantine at home. 

I don't know where you live, but check the court's website in your area and it will give you the closure info for your local jurisdiction.

So OP, unfortunately you and everyone else in these types of situations  have no remedy right now as far as getting an emergency injunction.

One exception to that would be the cars recklessly speeding down streets, around corners, endangering your children, have you contacted an attorney? 

That would be my first order of  business, call a lawyer. Not the police.

I'm really sorry!  I value my quiet time too, in fact I was forced to move 6 months ago due to extremely noisy upstairs neighbors, but realize since you own, that is not an option. 

Best of luck, stay safe!

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[Happy Lemming]

14 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I don't see big delivery trucks, increased traffic overall & "customers" speeding as petty. 

Something similar happened to my parents (a few years back), a new neighbor moved in next door to them.  The guy was running a landscape business out of his home, large trucks, monster trailers, huge equipment (chippers, tractors, etc.) and he was always working on them.  It was a loud nasty mess.

Local zoning dragged their feet and wouldn't do anything about it.  My parents hired an attorney, and dragged the guy into court.  The judge forced him to go rent a "commercial yard" for the equipment.  Eventually, the guy's business failed, the bank foreclosed on his house and he is GONE!!  YEA!!  A House-Flipper got the home from the bank, cleaned up the yard, fixed up the house and sold it to a nice normal couple.  Peace is restored to the neighborhood -- for now.

[thefooloftheyear]

15 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I don't see big delivery trucks, increased traffic overall & "customers" speeding as petty.  Those are real issues & other then the delivery trucks, not something the entrepreneur can really control.  It's also why zoning was invented.  Commercial areas have traffic flow patterns that are not present in residential neighborhoods.   Again due to Covid if the guy was ONLY selling stuff he grew I would have told the OP to simmer down but now that the guy has extended his business to accept deliveries from other suppliers, this is not going to stop after the lock down is over.  The guy is making money & will want to continue.  Under those circumstances, he needs to be regulated.  

No disrespect, but you are speculating what will happen(and is happening)....You don't know that...

Again.....he didn't even talk to the guy....The whole issue could possibly have been resolved with a simple discussion....That's the bottom line...And in 95% of cases like these, that's what normally resolves it...Cops will often even tell you to do this before they get involved...

If it can't be worked out or escalates into an argument, then decide what to do...But not even trying to talk to him and going directly to the police is a dumb move, if you plan on living there for any period of time..

For all anyone knows, the guys uncle is the Chief of Police...NOTHING GOOD will come out of trying to "regulate" his behavior....He'll find a way to get back at him...And that guy and his family will constantly be looking over their shoulder...Is that any way you or anyone else wants to live??  

TFY

[d0nnivain]

29 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Again.....he didn't even talk to the guy....The whole issue could possibly have been resolved with a simple discussion....That's the bottom line...And in 95% of cases like these, that's what normally resolves it...Cops will often even tell you to do this before they get involved...

No cops don't tell neighbors to resolve it among themselves when there are violations of the law involved.  Yes you need to cooperate when it's about dogs barking, children playing, where cars get parked but not operating a full scale business out of the house. 

How do you think that conversation would go: 

OP:  Hey neighbor I notice you have ramped up your sales & now delivery trucks are coming & going plus there is a huge volume of customer traffic & some of them are speeding.  Could you please stop selling things? 

Neighbor:  I gotta make money.  I gotta feed my family.  I got a mortgage to pay.  I can't control my suppliers.  That is what time they come.  I can't control the customers.  What do you want me to do? 

OP:  I want you to stop selling.  

Neighbor:  Not gonna happen.  

Things devolve from there  

Again if this neighbor had not affirmatively reached out & started getting deliveries from other places -- in essence opening a store in violation of local zoning -- I could see this being a temporary Covid thing with the guy selling what he grew but that is not what this is. If he was only selling his stuff, I too would advocate that the OP talk directly to the neighbor & maybe work out reduced hours until the neighbor could go back to the farmers' markets.  With the deliveries, he's running a full scale business which does not belong in a residential neighborhood.  Somebody's kid is going to get hit by a car and with all the additional people in the neighborhood that increases the risk that the neighbors will be exposed to the Virus.  The OP has a right to be concerned. 

OP if the cops won't act, try alerting the local media.  

Edited May 2, 2020 by d0nnivain

[poppyfields]

Or call an attorney, see my last post. 

 

[thefooloftheyear]

53 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

No cops don't tell neighbors to resolve it among themselves when there are violations of the law involved.  Yes you need to cooperate when it's about dogs barking, children playing, where cars get parked but not operating a full scale business out of the house. 

How do you think that conversation would go: 

OP:  Hey neighbor I notice you have ramped up your sales & now delivery trucks are coming & going plus there is a huge volume of customer traffic & some of them are speeding.  Could you please stop selling things? 

Neighbor:  I gotta make money.  I gotta feed my family.  I got a mortgage to pay.  I can't control my suppliers.  That is what time they come.  I can't control the customers.  What do you want me to do? 

OP:  I want you to stop selling.  

Neighbor:  Not gonna happen.  

Things devolve from there  

Again if this neighbor had not affirmatively reached out & started getting deliveries from other places -- in essence opening a store in violation of local zoning -- I could see this being a temporary Covid thing with the guy selling what he grew but that is not what this is. If he was only selling his stuff, I too would advocate that the OP talk directly to the neighbor & maybe work out reduced hours until the neighbor could go back to the farmers' markets.  With the deliveries, he's running a full scale business which does not belong in a residential neighborhood.  Somebody's kid is going to get hit by a car and with all the additional people in the neighborhood that increases the risk that the neighbors will be exposed to the Virus.  The OP has a right to be concerned. 

OP if the cops won't act, try alerting the local media.  

Your whole post is full of what if's and speculation...

And you are just assuming the guy will tell him to pound sand.....it could also easily go something like this...

OP:...Hey buddy...How's it going?  I noticed a lot of traffic around here, what's going on?

Neighbor:...Yeah, sorry about that, I had to start doing this during the lockdown because I can't operate where I was...Is there a problem?

OP:...Well...The extra traffic and noise is an issue and people are parking in front of my house and cutting through the yard, etc...It's a bit much..

Neighbor:..Ok..Fair enough...Sorry...I understand your concerns....I'll pick up the supplies myself and make sure no one parks near your place... That will eliminate the deliveries and limit the hours I am "open".... I only had planned to do it this way for a few weeks, its turning into longer due to the extended lockdown.. again, very sorry about that.....I'll only continue this for another few weeks, and if the lockdown isn't lifted, then i'll come up with an alternate plan....

OP:  Thanks man, I appreciate it(shakes hand)...

You assume the guy will just take a hard line and tell the guy to eff off......And maybe he would....But then he doesn't know that because he never bothered to talk to him....Going immediately legal IS not something that neighbors should do in these instances....Not before exhausting other options.....People see that as an affront and will often then do the exact opposite of what you want them to do...

I don't want to turn this into a gender thing, but<IME guys have a way of working things out between themselves FAR better than women do with other women....That's why I suggested a man to man discussion about it....I've resolved issues far more serious than this in my life, without anything more than a simple convo..You can always use the legal option later....

The problem with going legal/cops is once you do that, then you have effed yourself forever with that neighbor, and maybe other neighbors that are friendly with him....Its not something you want to do without careful consideration..

TFY

Edited May 2, 2020 by thefooloftheyear