Is this rape? I feel like this is my fault.

[Ally574664]

Okay long story so I will start with a back story. We used to be intimate all the time. I lost my virginity to him. We also drank a lot and sometimes when I would go down on him he would force my head down even though I told him I didn’t like it. Anyways other than that everything was fine and then I ended up pregnant and then he stopped getting intimate which is when I found out he was cheating. Fast forward a year (about 6 months ago) we got back together.

He would try and pressure me to have sex and I would say no but we would do other things. (We hadn’t had sex again until last night). But now all the sudden in the last month he won’t touch me again even if I initiate it so I feel like he might be cheating. I stopped drinking for two years but last night we ended up drinking and I got really drunk for the first time in a long time and told him I wanted to give him a blow job. He said he wasn’t feeling it. I feel like this is my fault because I started pressuring him and said let’s have sex I’m horny, why won’t you touch me are you not into me anymore?

And then he said I’m drunk and he didn’t want to do that to me. Then he said we don’t have condoms. We had one, but then he said the condom doesn’t fit. So I was hella drunk and offended and said who cares let’s make another baby. I’m honestly terrified of getting pregnant again so I was joking but don’t know why I said that. Then we started making out and he said fine and got on top of me and took my pants off.

He didn’t put a condom on said he’s going to pull out. I didn’t expect him to actually do anything so then I said wait no I was joking I don’t want sex without a condom. He said I won’t finish inside. And I said no please I don’t want to get pregnant. He said just relax it’s okay and I said no please don’t and said I was joking again.

He just kept telling me to relax and then I felt him and asked if he was inside and he said yes. I said no take it out not without a condom and he said ohh I’ve been waiting so long for this just relax. I said no again and that I was scared and he kept doing. Then I said stop.  And he said fine and got off of me and didn’t finish. I wanted it to stop because he was getting into it and I was scared he was about to finish inside. I just feel weird and can’t remember everything.

Should I talk to him. I mean I asked for it so I know it’s my fault. Am I f***ed up? Advice please. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Ally574664

[basil67]

Consent can be given and also retracted.   And unclear or wavering consent does not constitute affirmative consent.  So yes, you were raped.  

That said, this relationship sounds messy and toxic and the forcing of you into sex you don't want has been ongoing.  You would be best to get yourself away from him.  And get back on the sobriety wagon.  Do you have someone who can support you?

Edited May 1, 2020 by basil67

[salparadise]

 

2 hours ago, Ally574664 said:

but then he said the condom doesn’t fit. [...] then I felt him and asked if he was inside and he said yes.

He needs a specially sized condom, but then you weren't sure if he was in and had to ask? I mean... I'm confused. Never had anyone ask if I was in. Clarification needed.

Edited May 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Ally574664]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

 

He needs a specially sized condom, but then you weren't sure if he was in and had to ask? I mean... I'm confused. Never had anyone ask if I was in. Clarification needed.

The condom should have fit he just hates wearing them so that’s what he said. And I knew he was in I felt him but i was so drunk I didn’t really know what was happening I guess and wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy  so I just said are you in and he said yes so I said no I’m scared and he kept going for a minute or two before I got him to stop. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Ally574664

[Emilie Jolie]

This is really messed up, Ally.

Why did you not to have sex w him in 6 months? Sounds like you don't want to have sex with him while sober?

Then last night he said no to you 3 times and told you you were too drunk. He seemingly changed his mind just as you changed yours. It's a good job he stopped eventually. 2nd pregnancy averted at least. This may legally fall under the definition of rape (I assume as much anyway since you said no, but I'm no lawyer) but the whole dynamic is unhealthy af.

Neither of you are a good influence on the other, and alcohol seems to be a permanent guest of honor. You both need help, preferably separately. Whatever happened last night is the tip of the iceberg in terms of how deeply dysfunctional this RL is.

Also - where was the baby in all of this?

 

[Ally574664]

42 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Consent can be given and also retracted.   And unclear or wavering consent does not constitute affirmative consent.  So yes, you were raped.  

That said, this relationship sounds messy and toxic and the forcing of you into sex you don't want has been ongoing.  You would be best to get yourself away from him.  And get back on the sobriety wagon.  Do you have someone who can support you?

Thanks. There have been other incidents in the past as well, but this is the most recent one. I have support system but none of my friends or family like him. I posted this on another forum as well and people said I was over reacting so I feel too stupid to even mention it to my friends. 

[Ally574664]

Just now, Emilie Jolie said:

This is really messed up, Ally.

Why did you not to have sex w him in 6 months? Sounds like you don't want to have sex with him while sober?

Then last night he said no to you 3 times and told you you were too drunk. He seemingly changed his mind just as you changed yours. It's a good job he stopped eventually. 2nd pregnancy averted at least. This may legally fall under the definition of rape (I assume as much anyway since you said no, but I'm no lawyer) but the whole dynamic is unhealthy af.

Neither of you are a good influence on the other, and alcohol seems to be a permanent guest of honor. You both need help, preferably separately. Whatever happened last night is the tip of the iceberg in terms of how deeply dysfunctional this RL is.

Also - where was the baby in all of this?

 

I didn’t have sex for 6 months because he cheated and I didn’t trust him and it took a long time to get that back. I never drink and take care of my baby all the time! My son is very well taken care of and this was my first night not being home with him and I find that completely separate from this situation. 

[FMW]

I think it comes down to the two of you having a jacked up relationship and drinking too much. Neither of you were communicating clearly with the other, and it sounds like you were both back and forth about what to do.  And apparently that's a pattern.  

Take control of your life and stay away from him except when dealing with issues about your child.  You don't have to give your friends details if you don't want to, bust just ask them to help support you emotionally in staying away from him.  

[Emilie Jolie]

Why did you take him back, out of curiosity?

I don't think you're over reacting, but there are no separate issues. You need to see last night in the context of your whole dysfunctional RL. I don't doubt you're a good mother - I'm just saying last night was one piece of the jigsaw. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Ally574664]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Why did you take him back, out of curiosity?

I don't think you're over reacting, but there are no separate issues. You need to see last night in the contest of your whole dysfunctional RL. I don't doubt you're a good mother - I'm just saying last night was one piece of the jigsaw. 

Im still trying to figure it out, I honestly feel kind of trapped. I got with him when I was 18 and he was 26. It’s been three years and it’s been a roller coaster. He’s yells at me a lot and we fight a lot but ever since having the baby I have tried my best to keep us all together. I was mad at him for a long time for all the cheating but I’m trying to do what’s best for my son. And if I don’t think about the past then I feel better. We don’t currently live together and when we do get into arguments it’s never around my son but it’s very stressful to say the least. 

[Pleasant-Sage]

Why didn't you fight back if it's such a big deal? Kick, scream, bite, scratch?

I think you just regret the experience. He stopped at your request and didn't finish.

Perhaps not the first time but who could really blame him? You sent him tons of mixed signals before that. He probably thought you were joking and just playing hard to get until he realized you were serious. So, I don't believe it's rape.

You should stop trying to apply guilt to the situation and do whatever it takes not to put yourself or another man in that same exact predicament.

For both people's sake.

[Emilie Jolie]

I'm sorry, Ally. This sounds a lot worse than what your OP suggests. You not living together is a good thing. Maybe last night was the last drop, your instincts telling you to back off. You did well to stop him in his track. Now you need to seriously think about how healthy this RL really is.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[FMW]

He can have a relationship with his son without hooking up with you.  You don't owe him anything other than co-parenting respect.  Even if your son doesn't witness your interactions with him, he's still going to feel the stress that you have because of those interactions, so this isn't in the best interest of your son either.  

[Ally574664]

4 minutes ago, FMW said:

He can have a relationship with his son without hooking up with you.  You don't owe him anything other than co-parenting respect.  Even if your son doesn't witness your interactions with him, he's still going to feel the stress that you have because of those interactions, so this isn't in the best interest of your son either.  

Yes I know. There’s a lot too it. 

[Ally574664]

8 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I'm sorry, Ally. This sounds a lot worse than what your OP suggests. You not living together is a good thing. Maybe last night was the last drop, your instincts telling you to back off. You did well to stop him in his track. Now you need to seriously think about how healthy this RL really is.

Thanks. I was only trying to post the most recent scenario because it’s sooo much that I wouldn’t be able type all of it. I definitely will step back! 

[basil67]

The OP withdrew consent when it became clear that he wasn’t going to use a condom.  He inserted his unsheathed penis anyway.   He only stopped when she kept saying No.

For it to have not been rape, he would have to have stopped after she said ‘no sex without a condom’

[Emilie Jolie]

Did the OP go ahead with the BJ without her bf's consent? Sounds like no.

FWIW, I'm getting the vibe that the cheating is the underlying problem, being only dealt with via anger, fights, punishment, alcohol or situations like this one. Not healthy for either of them.

[Pleasant-Sage]

They are both victims of a very avoidable incident but there was no damage done. 

OP was VERY interested in sex but not interested in getting pregnant even though shortly before she didn't care and said "let's make a baby". In the end, the guy finally understood and disengage as OP requested.

To call this rape, flies in the face of all the men and women who have been forcibly raped against their wills.

I've been in a similar situation as OP as a male and no alcohol was involved. No way would I label what I experienced as rape either.

When I was a teen, I had an ex-gf yank down my shorts and climb on top of me. I told her no for the same reasons OP did. I didn't want to be a teen dad and there was no condom.

That girl didn't take no for an answer and I resisted. After a lot of effort, she managed to get me off inside her and I was scared. She told me not to worry because she was on birth control.

2 months later, she calls me because she wanted to see me. I told her no then she starts acting upset saying she needed me because she was pregnant and it was mine.

I drove over there as fast as I could and when I entered her bedroom, she had her face covered. I asked if she was ok? She uncovered her face and starts busting out laughing. Said she lied to get me to come over. Then tried to have sex with me again!

I was both relieved and angry at the same time. I left as quickly as I arrived.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Pleasant-Sage

[healing light]

4 hours ago, Ally574664 said:

He didn’t put a condom on said he’s going to pull out. I didn’t expect him to actually do anything so then I said wait no I was joking I don’t want sex without a condom. He said I won’t finish inside. And I said no please I don’t want to get pregnant. He said just relax it’s okay and I said no please don’t and said I was joking again.

He just kept telling me to relax and then I felt him and asked if he was inside and he said yes. I said no take it out not without a condom and he said ohh I’ve been waiting so long for this just relax. I said no again and that I was scared and he kept doing. Then I said stop.  And he said fine and got off of me and didn’t finish. I wanted it to stop because he was getting into it and I was scared he was about to finish inside. I just feel weird and can’t remember everything.

How many times does this woman need to say no before it's considered rape? Her consent was conditional to the condom use.

He kept telling her to relax despite her pleas. 

It's rape, but I personally wouldn't press charges because of the history, the alcohol use on both ends, and the joking around prior to it that makes the situation murky. Someone doesn't have to come inside you in order for it to legally be considered rape, though. But it's obvious neither one of them were in their right minds.

3 hours ago, Pleasant-Sage said:

Why didn't you fight back if it's such a big deal? Kick, scream, bite, scratch?

Many people do not fight back, kick, scream, bite, or scratch. Lots of people experience the freeze response, and not surprising where there is a power or size differential, either. Fright or flight. This is very common in traumatic situations, you don't know how a given person will respond until it happens, so you can't base whether it qualifies as rape off the logic of putting up a physical fight. 

Anyway, OP, I am sorry that you had a confusing and frighting experience, however you choose to define it. I would take this time to evaluate what kind of relations you want to have with this person and I certainly would avoid adding alcohol to the mix in the future.

[basil67]

Pleasant Sage, yes this whole thing is a sorry mess.  This is why my advice focused on getting her out of the relationship and sober.  While I agreed it was rape, you may have noticed that I didn't tell her to go to the police - but rather, move on and away.

Regarding your story, I'm sorry this happened to you.  You may not have been traumatised, but by the letter of the law, what she did to you was indeed rape.   You didn't give consent, you resisted and were scared.  This was all too common when we were young.   I've been sexually assaulted a number of times - the first time when I was 13 and he was an adult.  That we got over it doesn't mean that it should continue or that the harm it causes can't be recognised.    

Sexual assault or rape (especially with pre-adults) doesn't have to always result in the trauma one would expect to see.   After that experience at 13, guess what I did:  I thought that what happened to me was 'normal' and went on to repeat it with other boys.   I assaulted boys.  And at no time did I have the words or emotional maturity to set down boundaries about how I was treated....and they didn't have the boundaries to look after how they were treated.

We now have dialogue to ensure people are given education about how to recognise and discuss boundaries.  I for one, hope that no other young people have to go through what we did.  

 

[healing light]

1 hour ago, Pleasant-Sage said:

I've been in a similar situation as OP as a male and no alcohol was involved. No way would I label what I experienced as rape either.

When I was a teen, I had an ex-gf yank down my shorts and climb on top of me. I told her no for the same reasons OP did. I didn't want to be a teen dad and there was no condom.

That girl didn't take no for an answer and I resisted. After a lot of effort, she managed to get me off inside her and I was scared. She told me not to worry because she was on birth control.

This is also rape, even if you don't consider it to have been traumatic enough to have labeled it as such. What she did after was awful with the pregnancy scare, as well. Sounds like a terrible person.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

No, it's not rape. It's what you asked for. 

[Els]

Yes, he breached your consent, because you withdrew it and he carried on anyway. Is it rape? By my definition yes, but you won't be able to get that held up in court.

Either way, at the end of the day, you need to leave this guy ASAP, get your head screwed on right, and also don't drink to that extent. This relationship is toxic for both of you. You're being pressured into sex that you don't want, and then you pressure him into sex that he doesn't want, and say things that you don't mean (presumably due to the heavy drinking).

Get your life in order and don't see him again, girl. It's super unhealthy for your kid to see this mess.

[Noproblem]

I don't know you told him to have sex with you and begged him for it even when he said he didn't have condoms, you said yeah let's do it.

You were both extremely drunk and then in the middle of the act you said no..multiple times, then he finally he succumbed. 

He should have listened, was it a rape or not.. Could go either way in the court system. 

 

Best way is to avoid this man and move on with your life, you can do it, you can survive on your own, you don't need anyone!

Edited June 15, 2020 by Noproblem